Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: MatrixGamer on June 23, 2017, 04:22:36 PM
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Just had the thought that I could use pill boxes rather than machine gunners. I've read that in 1918 the Germans created zones of defense using MGs in pill boxes with overlapping fields of fire. These pill boxes operated independently and could effectively withstand siege (well, until the flame throwers arrive). I'll still get mobile MGs but the pill boxes might look cooler on the battlefield.
Have other people done this? Did it look good?
Chris Engle
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I don't know of any manufacturers in 1/72nd scale, sorry. There are some excellent WW1 pillboxes and other hardened positions in the Leven Miniatures range in 6mm. Also the Moir Pillbox in 28mm, put out by Grand Manner. Beyond these two manufacturers, I don't know of anything else in any other range that is specific to WW1. Therefore in 15mm I use hexagonal shaped WW2 examples as proxies.
In 1918, all sides followed the principle of overlapping zones of MMG fire. This was supported by the creation of dedicated MMG units that were not controlled by infantry officers. The need to overlap and to ensure that MMGs were used in enfilade as much as possible meant that coverage had to be coordinated across the zones of control for infantry units. In most cases on the German side, MMG teams took shelter in hardened positions. These teams then debouched as the barrage passed and set up their guns outside or on the roof of the hardened positions. Here is a British report, an extract from a Fifth Army Intelligence document entitled "Notes on Concreted Structures in the Enemy’s Defensive System. 1/9/22A", dated 13th September 1917:
"There does not appear to be any uniform design, the size and type of the structure varying according to situation and requirements. In one recorded instance the capacity is said to be sufficient for 100 men. More usually accommodation appears to be provided for a gruppe (8 men and 1 N.C.O.), or in a good many instances for about two gruppen. Many are provided with one or more loopholes for observation or defence, but this is by no means universal. One type known to exist has a vertical shaft up which a machine gun can be taken, to be mounted outside on the top."
Robert
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Pill boxes are very easy to scratch build theres no real mystery to them .
A good starting point for research (for gaming). Peter Oldams ,Pill boxes on the western front,design and construction. Simple little book an easy read round the £10-£12 on eBay.
If you get stuck ill happily do a quick tutorial.
Mark.
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Could always save card ones from Junior general into something like Publisher and rescale/adapt them.
http://www.juniorgeneral.org/index.php/figure/figureList/masters
Junior general has a lot to offer and is worthing spending time going through things.
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Oh, and Frontline Miniatures do one in 20mm 'as found on South coast of England' No idea what it's lkike though.
http://www.frontlinewargaming.co.uk/
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You can google German Pillbox World War 1 Hindenburg Line, and dozens of pictures will come up. They are very simple, rectangular or hexagonal boxes really.
http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/mgnests.htm
https://greatwar-1914.tumblr.com/post/156805008176/a-german-pillbox-near-arras-part-of-the-new
https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/pillbox-fighting-in-the-ypres-salient
An interesting variant is the two man cylindrical "turret" for the 53mm anti-tank gun. http://www.loc.gov/pictures/resource/cph.3a23750/
There's even a Pen and Sword Publishing book on the subject (and Osprey recently did one on the Hindenburg Line)
http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article/pill-boxes-on-the-western-front-1914--1918/8189/
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Wow! Great resources. Does sound like there was no standard pillbox. Scratch building would work well here.
I this approach would work as a alternative to putting out uncovered MGs.
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You can google German Pillbox World War 1 Hindenburg Line, and dozens of pictures will come up.
Thank you for pulling together the list of hyperlinks. In the first link, the following photograph is likely to be a dedicated MG pillbox from within which an MG team would operate:
(http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/mgseich.jpg)
It illustrates the principle of defending with an 'empty' battlefield, i.e. the position is not visible until you are quite close to it.
The next photograph illustrates the same principle, though in a different context:
(http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/pillbox.jpg)
It was very common for concrete hardened positions to be built inside existing structures. The nature of the aperture and it being close to the ground means that it is most likely an MG position and not an observation or command post.
This photograph is not an MG pillbox:
(http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/pilckem2.jpg)
It is a command bunker with the open 'window' being a location for a visual signalling device that was used to communicate messages further back in the defensive sector.
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/e4e226d10b1c8e9b1646cc53ceab8cbe/tumblr_okv17fYe6R1szkmvlo1_1280.jpg)
is a Moir pillbox, which is a British design.
The images from the Australian War Museum are a mixture of command, observation, and hardened shelters for infantry (MEBUs), which will have housed MG teams but not been used as the positions from which the MGs were fired from inside.
Robert
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Peter Oldham's book is superb. Here is a taster of some photos from his book, which illustrate what dedicated MG positions were typically like:
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Another example of dedicated MG position.
Robert
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They are really very, very easy to scratch build. Just a square box, low to the ground, with some firing slots.
I made some up earlier this year for a game out of old bits of plastic packing material. It was only a few hours work.
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I think I could use one inch plugs from Lowes. Some sand glued on the top arch, painted to blend with the terrain would be easy to do. It would be right scaled for 15mm but I find that mixing scales seems to work in certain types of games.
My rules have 1 stand = 100 men. So tanks and pill boxes are already standing in for many.
I may need to go to the hardware store. Need to get some washers for morale markers.
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Here's some bunkers I made last year:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yWS2Q8_DlEU/WBX5Ra8dJEI/AAAAAAAAQz0/8itJQ564oa8/s1600/20161030_133816.jpg)
And the relevant blog post:
http://tgamesweplay.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/pull-up-to-bunker.html (http://tgamesweplay.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/pull-up-to-bunker.html)
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Those look nice. I can totally make something like this.