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Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Byrthnoth on August 15, 2017, 07:48:09 PM

Title: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Byrthnoth on August 15, 2017, 07:48:09 PM
These have been sitting around partially painted for ages and while I was preparing some models for Saga I decided to try the novel concept of actually finishing something before flitting on to the next set of miniatures.

I'm building a couple of armies for Dux Bellorum, and the goal was to create a slightly board gamey feel with a small board that could be plopped on a dinner table or coffee table for a quick game. I settled on 10mm Pendraken figures on 40x30mm bases, because that allowed for a massed look while still keeping the battlefield size to 60x60cm.

The two armies will both be Romano-British forces competing for local supremacy following the departure of Constantine III in the early 5th century. To keep things clear on the table with such small figures, each army will have a strict colour scheme — red and yellow for one side, black and white for the other gang.

The first four units are 'ordinary shieldwall' for the red and yellow army.

(http://i.imgur.com/lM6PZUI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/nMz2ue4.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/fYYi34w.jpg?1)
(http://i.imgur.com/NFKOl8t.jpg?1)
Each base has a spot at the back for a small die to mark the unit's cohesion. I might get some of those 'dice frames' for the next batch of bases - I did these by carving out the milliput I used for the ground work and it was a pain.
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on August 15, 2017, 08:00:25 PM
They look rather splendid. Particularly like their earthy colours.
I keep getting tempted by these 10mm Late Romans, they are such nice figures. ::)

Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Svennn on August 15, 2017, 08:48:30 PM
Very nice, lovely painting.
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Jeff965 on August 15, 2017, 09:11:11 PM
Cracking paint job and the basing sets them off a treat :-*
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: fred on August 15, 2017, 09:55:27 PM
Excellent work. Knowing the size of these figures, I particularly impressed with how you have painted them. The limited colour palette works well, both from giving an earthy look, but also from given some coherence to the force, which is always good. Looking forward to seeing their opponents.

The little dice frames from Pendraken are excellent, way easier than making your own.

These have been sitting around partially painted for ages and while I was preparing some models for Saga I decided to try the novel concept of actually finishing something before flitting on to the next set of miniatures.

I've heard of this idea. I'm not sure it will catch on...
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: jambo1 on August 16, 2017, 05:36:53 AM
Lovely job on those Pendraken figures, really good work. :)
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Byrthnoth on August 16, 2017, 01:47:17 PM
Thanks for the kind comments.

Mad Doc Morris, the Pendraken late Romans are definitely great. Clibinarium did a great job with them. Lots of codes and lots of pose variations in the packs – quite rare in 10mm. A lot of ranges have only one pose for each troop type, and that level of uniformity doesn't really work for late antiquity.
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Driscoles on August 16, 2017, 02:11:11 PM
Just great
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Irregular Wars Nic on August 16, 2017, 02:25:14 PM
Yep, those are lovely. Very nicely painted indeed. Looking forward to following this project!

Dux Bellorum is one of my favourite games and I also went down the Pendraken route for my Romano Brits.

Here are mine: http://irregularwars.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Dux%20Bellorum (http://irregularwars.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Dux%20Bellorum)
And here are some more by Josh for inspiration: http://lecoqfou.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/pendraken-painting-competition.html (http://lecoqfou.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/pendraken-painting-competition.html)
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Mason on August 16, 2017, 02:54:54 PM
The whole army looks absolutely wonderful.
I have to admire anyone that can make such diddy figures look this good.
 :-* :-*



This is not criticism but a suggestion:
I feel that the addition of the d6 does ruin the illusion somewhat, especially as it so large in comparison to the miniatures.
Have you considered using alternate markers, like casualty figures for instance, as I think they would look much better?
This lovely army really does deserve to look at its best in the heat of battle,
 :)
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Richard in Sachsen on August 16, 2017, 03:21:11 PM
Those units are fantastic! :-* The smaller figures look so much better on 6cm bases than 28mm. For Dux Bellorum and Comitatus I tend to push the base frontages to 8cm as the larger figures look better. But that is, of course, also more table space.

I, too, find the minimal pallet adds greatly to the unit as a whole and amplifies the mass effect. Looking at the rear of the photos, I find the different tones complement each other very well. I mean you use different colours obviously but the tone seems to be the same. I agree, it gives it an earthly look.

Nice use of contrast as well. I have a few 6mm EIR that I wanted to give a go (for the same reason as you, for dinner table use) and followed the Bacchus advice on how to paint them. So I became aware of how important contrast is at such a small scale.

But I'm curious as to why 10mm? Why not 15's or 6's? Maybe I'll pick up a few 10's and see how it goes, but I'm genuinely curious as to the advantages one may find with 10's over the other scales.
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Irregular Wars Nic on August 16, 2017, 04:32:18 PM
But I'm curious as to why 10mm? Why not 15's or 6's? Maybe I'll pick up a few 10's and see how it goes, but I'm genuinely curious as to the advantages one may find with 10's over the other scales.

For my part, I love 6mm, but I think 10mm gives more soooo much more detail to the figures. 15mm figures are great as well, but 10mm are cheaper, and you can fit more in the same space. They really are a middle ground between 6s and 15s.

Here, Brythnoth is putting 10 figures on a base width that would normally take four 15mm chaps. That really lets you play around with the concept one base = one unit/warband.

In Dux Bellorum, you normally only have 8-12 units, so it's nice to make each base look like a bunch of men, not just a counter with four figures on it.

Also, Pendraken's late Romans, sculpted by Clibiniarii, are particularly characterful. It's like painting 15mm stuff, but faster!
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Richard in Sachsen on August 16, 2017, 05:00:09 PM
Thanks Nic, maybe I'll give Pendragon a go, then.
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Byrthnoth on August 16, 2017, 05:45:17 PM
Nic, your figures and Josh's were a big inspiration for starting the project – I ordered the figures almost 2 years ago, around when you were originally building your armies. I see you've added some more figures recently – they look great.

Mason, I agree that the dice ruin the illusion a bit. I went with them instead of casualty figures because I worried about them cluttering the board too much - some units have up to 6 cohesion points (wounds/hit points) and when units are grouped together it might be tricky to tell which casualties belong to which unit, especially if the bases get jostled. Dice seemed to keep everything tidier and easily readable.

Richard, I went with 10mm because for whatever reason the scale feels 'right' to me. I've tried painting 6mm and found that I could get a good result but the actual painting wasn't enjoyable, while 10mm is still fun for me. I've never tried 15s, but I think Nic is probably right that 10mm offers a good middle ground with the advantages of both 6mm and 15mm.
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: mellis1644 on August 16, 2017, 06:15:20 PM
They look really good. I did the same thing with 6mm figs for Dux B - but mine don't look as goos as yours
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Richard in Sachsen on August 27, 2017, 07:45:08 AM

Ok, Byrthnoth, I took the plunge. The ghosts of 10mm have been haunting me as I fall to sleep ever since I first looked at this thread (curse you Byrthnoth! Now I definitely can't follow this rule:
Quote
the novel concept of actually finishing something before flitting on to the next set of miniatures.
).

I just ordered a Pendraken Late Roman army pack with some extra cavalry for the general's comitatus, command figures, and casualty figures.

So, since 10mm is brand new to me, a couple of questions regarding your 10's.


Thanks for any advice and/or suggestions you may have.

Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Byrthnoth on August 31, 2017, 04:29:44 PM
Hi Richard, I'm not sure how helpful I can be with some of these questions, but I'll do my best.
  • How long does it take you to paint up a stand/army?
I don't usually track how long it takes me to paint anything and I'm generally pretty slow, but I'd say it takes me as much time to paint 5-6 10mm figures as one 28mm guy.
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  • Who are the best manufacturers for opposing army minis which would fit in and mix well with Pendraken (since Pendraken currently only offers Late Romans and Sassinids)? i.e. if I wish to mix some Goth cavalry figures in with the Pendraken cavalry figures, for example?
I haven't tried mixing manufacturers, but I'd say Magister Militum seem closest in style to the Pendraken Late Romans in that they prioritize having easily 'readable' details such as faces, weapons and equipment. I get the sense that the Pendraken Late Roman horses don't necessarily match well with other ranges, so it might not work to have a mix of manufacturers on a single stand, though I haven't tried it myself.
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  • How's the market offerings for buildings & terrain items? Any suggestions
I have no idea. I was planning on scratch building a few small buildings somewhere down the line, but sticking to natural features for the time being.
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  • I found with my 6's, identification labels on the bases really helps although it tends to break the illusion. You don't do that here. Would you find labels helpful and necessary for unit ID, or are shields and colour palette enough?
I think the visual cues I've chosen should be enough without adding labels. Each army will have a main colour (with matching cohesion dice) to tell them apart, and superior/elite units will be armoured while ordinary units will be unarmoured. Skirmishers will have fewer figures per base than close order troops. My armies will be fairly small and just one stand per unit, so it shouldn't be too hard to keep things clear.
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  • Shields: decals or hand-painted? I know that is personal preference but on this small of a scale I'm particularly interested in not only what looks nice, but also ease and how fast I can get these Jungs on the tabletop.
I haven't tried decals or transfers, but I would probably use them if I was building units that had some of the more complex designs from the Notitia Dignitatum. I imagine decals that small would be quite finicky to apply, so for simpler designs it might not be too much of a time savings.
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  • How large will your army be? How many stands are you using, for instance, for a comitantenses or auxiliary?
Pretty small. Dux Bellorum armies are typically 5-10 units, and I'm doing 1 stand per unit. My Romano-British will be the 4 stands of spearmen in the first post of this thread, a stand of archers, 2 stands of skirmishing slingers, and 3 stands of armoured cavalry. I wanted a game that was quick to set up, and could be played in on a small surface, so 1 stand per unit made sense. If I wanted a more impressive and immersive experience I would probably do 4 stands per unit.
Title: Re: Dux Bellorum in 10mm — Romano-British
Post by: Richard in Sachsen on September 01, 2017, 06:00:37 AM
Thanks Byrth,

I'm getting more and more stoked about these figures all the time. I briefly thought how good they would look with 6mm frontages for 28mm figures: briefly, because that would defeat my entire purpose for buying 10mm. We just sold the house and moved into a much smaller but cosier apartment and like you, I wanted much smaller armies on a much smaller space. I like my 6's - when they're done. I find them easy but tedious to paint. Right now I am stuck on my Dacians (a starter army plus a boatload I found on Col. Bill's used mini site) because I don't know how to "factory paint" all their shields, at such a small scale, and also give them an individual look. So they're sitting in a box.

Thanks for posting your army organisation as well, I'll steal it if you don't mind. Comitatus uses the same frontages and sizes as Dux Bellorum. While there are no rules regarding scale, it is suggested that one stand equals one unit of about 500 men. The late Roman Comentatensis actually takes up two stands while an auxiliary unit is still one stand. I imagine the scale is the same for the smaller Romano-British armies of one unit per stand.

I think I'll stick with this organisation for right now. I was just thinking that these would also be great for Impetus which has an 80mm frontage, or two stands put together. That basically doubles the size of the army. So the question to myself was whether to paint a double-sized army for Impetus now or paint the additional units later risking the paint job looking different like the second batch? I'll stick with DB unit sizes for now and worry about the additional stands later while hoping that I can keep the paint job consistent.

Great idea about the cohesion dice, I'll steal that too, if you don't mind. 8)

Looks like painting shields is the way to go. I looked at LBMS and it seems there are only 3-4 designs available in 10mm and I don't want the entire army looking like Secunda Britannica.

Once these guys are painted up, I'll look into some Goths from MM.

Please keep updating us on your progress, I'm looking forward to seeing and learning more as 10mm is brand new to me.