Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: Predatorpt on August 17, 2017, 01:43:12 PM
-
It seems that an email from Alliance, the Asmodee/Fantasy Flight Games distributor in the US let slip this little info:
FFG SWL01 Star Wars: Legion - Core Set $89.95
Star Wars: Legion
Epic warfare is an inescapable part of the Star Wars™ universe, and you can lead your troops to victory with Star Wars: Legion™, a two-player miniatures game of thrilling infantry battles in the Star Wars universe! As a miniatures game, Star Wars: Legion invites you to enter the ground battles of the Galactic Civil War as the commander of a unique army filled with troopers, powerful vehicles, and iconic characters. While innovative mechanics for command and control simulate the fog of war and the chaos of battle, the game’s unpainted, easily assembled figures give you a canvas to create any Star Wars army you can imagine.
No further info...
-
That sounds right up my alley. God damn.
-
Just read some rumours saying that the game will be based on Battlelore 2ed o_o
-
Just read some rumours saying that the game will be based on Battlelore 2ed o_o
... Less so now.
-
Lots of rumours floating around...supposed to be announced good n' proper at GenCon so any moment now really. While I've no interest in an FFG property game --- I'd be interested in vaguely reasonably priced SW figures, particularly in 28mm.
-
The miniatures will make or break this. FFG have done some great pre-paint, but I've not seen any multipart & unpainted offerings from them.
-
1/270th scale compatible to x-wing by chance?
-
i'll keep an eye on this tread, indeed!. I am still using a large amount of Weg's but, interested on a agile ruleset for huge battles.... o_o
-
Just read some rumours saying that the game will be based on Battlelore 2ed
Pretty implausible. BL2E designer Jonathan Ying talked on Reddit about how one reason FFG dropped that game was the scale was too small. Expect SW Legions to be 28mm (i.e., 32mm).
-
To repeat my comments from the Dakka thread: If they are going to keep the game in scale with IA they really need to improve. I stopped buying IA sets because the scale and quality of the figures were so varied.
Very disappointing because I like the IA game, and am an huge Star Wars fan.
~Eric
-
The miniatures will make or break this. FFG have done some great pre-paint, but I've not seen any multipart & unpainted offerings from them.
Dust are unpainted multi-part,and they're very nice.
A huge number of their board games come with really excellent miniatures, so there's no worry there.
I would say scale is a more determining factor.
-
Rune Wars is also unpainted, multi part. I don't recall Dust kits requiring assembly (never bought many of them) but RW minis do require (quite minor) assembly.
-
Interesting! Hopefully they will create a solid game. For me FFG is a bit hit or miss.
I like X-Wing and Imperial Assault, Armada was never my thing on the other side.
Hopefully they will keep the table clutter (all the endless marker) reasonable small.
To repeat my comments from the Dakka thread: If they are going to keep the game in scale with IA they really need to improve. I stopped buying IA sets because the scale and quality of the figures were so varied.
Very disappointing because I like the IA game, and am an huge Star Wars fan.
??? I am amazed. I have more or less every IA minis, what was not in heroic 28mm scale?
-
1/270th scale compatible to x-wing by chance?
Reading the "ground battles of the Galactic Civil War as the commander of a unique army filled with troopers, powerful vehicles, and iconic characters" sentence 6mm or 1/270 seems about right! We will see...
-
Could be a dream come true...or a nightmare.
If they go 15mm or smaller, I might sell my other kidney and give it a go :) Otherwise with 28-32mm it'll be just another skirmish game which takes too much place and won't have that special Star Wars feeling (AT-ATs!!!!!!).
-
6mm or 1/270 seems about right!
Sarcasm?
-
Some pics from Twitter today
-
Some better pictures from Twitter, the miniatures are supplied unpainted and unassembled and will be from the Original Trilogy.
Gathered information and pictures of both miniatures and demo tables here
http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2017/08/fantasy-flight-games-breaking-star-wars.html (http://wargameterrain.blogspot.be/2017/08/fantasy-flight-games-breaking-star-wars.html)
-
Sarcasm?
No, why? For a grand epic scale battle 6mm would be great!
But the shown pics indicate 28mm.
-
No, why?
because it's FFG
-
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/5a/28/5a28b9cf-04b3-45b5-a9e6-6f507ab06af7/swl01_box_left-large.png)
Shouts and screams echo around you—the din of pitched battle. The air smells acrid from blaster fire as lasers hiss past your squad. A scout trooper roars past on a 74-Z speeder bike, weaving between trees and firing at someone you can’t quite see through the underbrush. You raise your blaster and fire in the same direction, hoping to avoid any shrapnel. Ahead, you see Darth Vader, towering over a group of fallen Rebels strewn across the forest floor. He flicks his lightsaber forward, and your platoon charges…
Fantasy Flight Games is proud to announce Star Wars™: Legion, a new miniatures game of infantry battles that invites you to join iconic heroes and villains, lead your troopers into battle, and battle for the fate of the Star Wars galaxy. With Star Wars: Legion, you can build and paint a unique army of miniatures. You can command your troops in battle and devise masterful tactics. And you can conquer your opponent’s army to bring victory to the light side or the dark side!
With thirty-three unpainted and easily assembled miniatures, and all the cards, movement tools, tokens, and terrain that you need for battle, the Star Wars: Legion Core Set is the perfect way to bring Star Wars battles to your tabletop.
If you’re here with us at Gen Con 50 in Indianapolis, head to our booth to get your first taste of Star Wars: Legion, but in the meantime, read on!
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/10/bb/10bb1faa-6c12-4dc8-9da1-60c39a951316/swl01_photo_introshot1.jpg)
Charge into Battle
Star Wars: Legion casts you as a commander in the heat of battle, pitting the Empire’s finest against the ragtag forces of the Rebellion. You’ve received your objectives from high command, and the tactics that you execute in battle will determine if you can restore freedom to the galaxy or crush the resistance of the Rebel Alliance forever.
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/99/62/99624824-4947-415e-a65d-ef2a2ed0fddf/swl01_photo_stormtrooper-squad2.jpg)
The heroes, villains, vehicles, and squads of troopers that you command are the heart of your army, and each round, you’ll command your units to press your advantage. Whether your unit is a squad of Stormtroopers or a salvaged Rebel AT-RT, each unit can take two actions to march across the battlefield, launch a devastating attack, take careful aim, dodge away from enemy fire, take a moment to recover, or hold their action until the optimal moment.
Movement in Star Wars: Legion is fast and organic as you maneuver your troops around the battlefield using jointed movement tools. Unlike many miniatures games, you don’t need to measure movement for every miniature in a unit! Once you’ve measured movement for your unit leader, you simply pick up the other soldiers in the unit and place them in cohesion with the unit leader.
Not only does this make movement fast and intuitive, it lets you strategically position your troops to take cover from blaster fire or control strategic terrain. Sending your Stormtroopers charging into just the right place to line up a devastating crossfire or catching your opponent’s forces between Luke Skywalker and a powerful AT-RT walker are some of the game-changing moves that can turn the tide and decide the fate of the galaxy in any game of Star Wars: Legion!
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/c4/23/c423df21-d229-492d-97b7-66ff3008001b/swl01_photo_walker.jpg)
Movement and positioning are important, but you’ll need to send your troops forward if you’re going to defeat the enemy army. Combat in Star Wars: Legion is driven by the weapons each soldier wields—whether you’re firing blasters, throwing grenades, igniting vehicle-mounted flamethrowers, or drawing a lightsaber. For every attack, you’ll choose the weapons you want your soldiers to use, adapting to the evolving battlefield by choosing between a blaster and a rocket launcher, for example.
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/87/e1/87e1aa74-ddb6-40a0-9aa7-18595909fdfe/swl01_combat_daiagram.jpg)
Each of the four Rebel Troopers chooses to use an A-280 Rifle, contributing a total of four black dice to the attack. The 74-Z Speeder Bikes unit will roll a defense die for each hit.
Just as important as choosing which weapon you use is choosing when to attack. If your opponent is taking cover behind terrain or prepared to dodge your attack, then it may be better to reposition your unit and maneuver your forces to create a better opportunity for your onslaught. The choices you make will govern the fates of your soldiers—but if you lead them wisely, then victory is assured! For more information about movement and combat, visit the Star Wars: Legion minisite and keep an eye out for future in-depth previews.
Command Your Troops
To win the battle, your troops will need to move and attack, but first they need orders—and that can be challenging at times during the heat of battle. Luckily, you have your army’s commander to ensure you can activate your units at the critical times.
While every unit you control on the battlefield will activate each round, the command system for Star Wars: Legion presents you with the opportunity to outmaneuver and outthink your opponent. Adapting to the changing tides of battle is one of the things that separates truly great commanders from lesser officers.
You can find more details about the command system and ordering your troops on the Star Wars: Legion minisite and in future articles!
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/d6/21/d621c9ae-72d9-4d6b-9f9b-6b0c4511e30c/swl01_photo_luke-v-vader.jpg)
Build Your Army
Like other miniatures games, Star Wars: Legion also gives you the chance to build a unique army. Before the game begins, you’ll select the exact heroes, villains, troopers, and vehicles that you want to use. Within the Core Set alone, you already have choices to make with thirty-three miniatures, including Luke Skywalker, Darth Vader, Rebel Troopers, Stormtroopers, an AT-RT, and 74-Z Speeder Bikes.
While the Core Set gives you everything that you need for your first battles, you’ll find even more options as you expand from there. You may choose to build an army that uses swarm tactics with large numbers of troopers, or you may focus on the improved armor and firepower of vehicles, but whether you’re planning a small-scale skirmish or a pitched battle between dozens of units, the game allows you to build an army that fits the way you want to play.
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/20/a0/20a06b5c-d6d1-47b7-9b3b-a00f374ae33c/swl01_photo_face-off.jpg)
The choices and customization don’t stop there, either. Every unit in Star Wars: Legion has the option for you to tweak it to fit your preferences and playstyle with upgrade cards. You may upgrade Darth Vader with the ability to throw his lightsaber, load a rotary blaster onto your AT-RT, bring heavy weapons specialists into your trooper unit, or equip your 74-Z Speeder Bikes with long-range comlinks. No matter how you upgrade your units, every upgrade card is another step to making your army different.
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/63/b3/63b308b0-466a-45af-84d8-72136040e937/swl01_upgrade_stormtrooper.png)(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/36/75/367549c4-980f-4504-82cc-0cb5123662fb/swl01_upgrade_long_range_comm.png)
And of course, perhaps the most entertaining step of army building for many players is to paint and customize your miniatures! All Star Wars: Legion minis come unpainted, so after you assemble your army, you’ll be able to paint them to create a truly unique army and bring the Star Wars galaxy to your tabletop. Although you don’t need to paint your army, many players find it more enjoyable to play with a painted army—and we’ll have plenty of articles and video tutorials to support your painting in coming months, including help for beginners. Even if you’ve never played a miniatures game or painted an army before, the Star Wars: Legion Core Set is the perfect entrypoint to the hobby.
(https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/69/1d/691d60ae-da9c-485a-ba48-b767cfbc62ee/swl01_photo_rebel-squad3.jpg)
Build. Command. Conquer.
Your troopers’ boots are on the ground, and battle is about to be joined. If you’re with us at Gen Con 50 in Indianapolis, head over to the Fantasy Flight Games booth to be among the first to experience the infantry battles of Star Wars: Legion!
-
No, why? For a grand epic scale battle 6mm would be great!
But the shown pics indicate 28mm.
For Prequel based stuff, that would certainly work.
Grand epic scale battles don't make any sense in the OT. They're rebels striking from hidden bases, not armies marching into battle.
-
If they fit besides my IA characters, I'll be happy.
Plastic sprew stormtroopers might be cheaper to buy than the IA three pack too.
-
(https://img1.picload.org/image/rwlpippl/74fqojv589baql7w.png)
-
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/star-wars-legion-showcase/
^^for me this is still too meh...not sure what to think about it. Legions is definitely the wrong name...
-
The size difference reminds of those buff Power of the Force figures that came out in the 90's.
For the vehicles and armored characters it won't be so bad.
-
The previews look good, but it is 90USD for 33 figures... did they say what kind of plastic is being used? Will wait and see a bit more details before committing.
-
(https://img1.picload.org/image/rwlpippl/74fqojv589baql7w.png)
^^ That's sad. It was my only hope that they at least they would get the scale right...
-
I think they had to change scales to avoid people skipping them entirely and sticking to collected Imperial Assault figures. I'll be interested (not in the rules, feth that) if I can find the figures for a decent price.
-
^^ That's sad. It was my only hope that they at least they would get the scale right...
If they can stay consistent, the new scale is nice as far as I'm concerned. IA couldn't keep a consistent scale.
These new figures appear to be more like 1/48th scale. Which I personally am very ok with.
I do understand why you might be disappointed by the switch though.
-
Hopefully they will keep the table clutter (all the endless marker) reasonable small.
??? I am amazed. I have more or less every IA minis, what was not in heroic 28mm scale?
General Weiss was the worst offender of the scale shenanigans. He is more like a large 20mm figure. But there is a lot of scale variation across the line. Not height variation. That I'm fine with.
Also, and the bigger issue, IA figures had piss poor QC.
-
because it's FFG
Sorry, I still do NOT get it, what is wrong with FFG? ???
-
There's already a tutorial for painting Luke Skywalker, where you can see the assembly of the figure:
https://youtu.be/1OVnCFq1j04
And here's what the painter has to say about the figure size:
Hi! This Luke measures 35mm in height compared to the IA Luke who measures 30mm in height (and the base measures 27mm across)
-
General Weiss was the worst offender of the scale shenanigans. He is more like a large 20mm figure. But there is a lot of scale variation across the line. Not height variation. That I'm fine with.
Also, and the bigger issue, IA figures had piss poor QC.
Ahh Weiss, I presume you are talking about the mini that was looking out of the walker?
I was always under the impression that it was done deliberately to make the walker look bigger.
Worked for me.
And yes the minis are not top notch compared to todays quality in minis.
-
There's already a tutorial for painting Luke Skywalker, where you can see the assembly of the figure:
https://youtu.be/1OVnCFq1j04
Interesting video, nice enough mini, but sad that they did not kept the IA scale...
-
So I am still unsure with the comments and the pictures are they going to scale with Imperial assault?
Some of the figures in the pictures look the same as IA figures I already have, still not cheap though
-
Ahh Weiss, I presume you are talking about the mini that was looking out of the walker?
I was always under the impression that it was done deliberately to make the walker look bigger.
Worked for me.
And yes the minis are not top notch compared to todays quality in minis.
That's the one. And the reason I assume they did it too. Still, it was just the worst offender, not the only by far.
@gamer Mac: I don't think they will mix that well, but we'll need to see more comparisons to know for sure.
-
Sorry, I still do NOT get it, what is wrong with FFG?
FFG abandoned Battlelore 2E because they are not interested in smaller scale (human[oid]) miniatures.So I am still unsure with the comments and the pictures are they going to scale with Imperial assault?
If we assume for the sake of argument that both IA and Legion have consistent scales, using Luke as a guide, it looks like a 2-5mm difference in Legion's favor.
Then again ...
http://biggerluke.wikidot.com/bigger-luke
-
Well, I'm interested.
-
Excuse my stupidness, if the minis are 35mm, would that make them 1/48 scale?
-
Deceived. :(
perhaps i'd take a look on the rule mechanics. But i found that a 20mm ( sort of FOW) would have been a success. ( having in mind the quality of SW: Rebellion miniatures.
That would have let te gamers purchase whole companies or big vehicles.
Since the original expanded universe lead by WEG to the PC games like EMpire at war, Rebels had a wide range of vehicles ( refurbished, outdated or repurposed - like the snowspeeders- ) Obviously the Rebellion based his surviveal on Guerrilla warfare but still had it strongholds, safe worlds, and factoryhomeworlds ( Calamari is a good example of Space yards) i can recall heavy vehicles like the Heavy tracker, the LAAV Freerunners, and several outdated tanks from the EU on Pc games, that could have bring back to life as miniatures. They're no match for the mighty Imperial Army indeed, but could have been a great game. Just imagine a FOW game and exchange the minis and vehicles with those of SW. I'd probably keep using my WEG's armies by now.
-
I would think that if this is successful, we will probably see further down the line an 'army scale' games - somewhat as they did with X-Wing and then Armada.
Especially if they want to get AT-AT's in the mix.
Hopefully, will spread past the OS/T, as I quite fancy a Droid Army.
-
For Prequel based stuff, that would certainly work.
Grand epic scale battles don't make any sense in the OT. They're rebels striking from hidden bases, not armies marching into battle.
Ahem, wasn't the Battle of Hoth in Ep V a big battle?
I can really see potential for combined arms 6mm / 1/270 scale battles in Star Wars! Walkers, Snow speeder etc
And yes even better for Ep II and III!
FFG abandoned Battlelore 2E because they are not interested in smaller scale (human[oid]) miniatures....
Got it, since I never heard of Battlelore, I simple did not knew...
Excuse my stupidness, if the minis are 35mm, would that make them 1/48 scale?
More or less, all the xx mm numbers are no real scales anyway...
-
Bigger miniatures... Primaris Stormtroopers!!!
For the Emperor... well the other one. lol
-
Ahem, wasn't the Battle of Hoth in Ep V a big battle?
I can really see potential for combined arms 6mm / 1/270 scale battles in Star Wars! Walkers, Snow speeder etc
And yes even better for Ep II and III!
Got it, since I never heard of Battlelore, I simple did not knew...
More or less, all the xx mm numbers are no real scales anyway...
Sure thing!
Hoth was what Star Wars meant for me growing up! And it's pretty big. Way too big to make it with 28mm. And the same is probably true for Endor.
So yeah. 6-15mm would have worked, and 15s would also have allowed for characters!
-
Ahem, wasn't the Battle of Hoth in Ep V a big battle?
I can really see potential for combined arms 6mm / 1/270 scale battles in Star Wars! Walkers, Snow speeder etc
That was exactly my idea Agis.
-
Sure thing!
Hoth was what Star Wars meant for me growing up! And it's pretty big. Way too big to make it with 28mm. And the same is probably true for Endor.
So yeah. 6-15mm would have worked, and 15s would also have allowed for characters!
Oh yes, I would have loved 15mm! The bigger scale is really a mystery to me!
If they would have chosen the same scale as Imperial Assault, I could understand it, but bigger?
-
Oh yes, I would have loved 15mm! The bigger scale is really a mystery to me!
If they would have chosen the same scale as Imperial Assault, I could understand it, but bigger?
While I'm personally glad that they stayed at the larger size, extremely large battles at 15mm would have been cool.
I was also thinking about the minis shown so far. Everything that I can find about them says that they are all resin prototypes. I wonder if they were shrunk down to the expected final PVC size or if they were printed at 100%? If they were printed at 100%, the final figures will be smaller than what has been shown.
~Eric
-
Ahem, wasn't the Battle of Hoth in Ep V a big battle?
And that is the big battle I see most played when someone does a big Star Wars battle.
Grimm
-
Oh yes, I would have loved 15mm! The bigger scale is really a mystery to me!
If they would have chosen the same scale as Imperial Assault, I could understand it, but bigger?
Oh yes. When I heard the first news and saw the name ("Legions"), it was just what I would have expected 15mm or smaller.
Don't get me wrong, I think Star Wars also allows for a good Skirmisher, but I think they would have just needed to release more (and more varied) IA models.
-
And that is the big battle I see most played when someone does a big Star Wars battle.
Grimm
I remember having had an old plastic model kit (Ertl?) as a kid. It contained an AT-AT, some laser towers and snow speeders. Must have been 6mm and even at that scale the AT-AT was pretty large.
Oh what a missed opportunity!
-
This is a fairly niche forum even by the standards of miniatures hobby message boards. I think it's important to keep in mind the vast chasm yawning between LAF posters and the target customer of a crossover product like Star Wars Legion, which is a person who may have never even considered themselves a "gamer" much less a miniatures war gamer, before seeing this specific product. For that kind of person, a 6-15mm scale miniatures game has very limited appeal - although for some of us, this might seem ideal.
Additonally, there is a rumor of some kind of licensing dispute (that has been patched over) between Hasbro and FFG. The result is that FFG has limited distribution rights regarding Imperial Assault, which in turn implies that FFG would in no way, shape, or form risk a similar burden related to Legion, so compatibility between components of these two games would be out of the question as a matter of principle.
Finally, and more fundamentally, Imperial Assault and Legion are unrelated games. Because both include miniatures among their components and those miniatures are, for whatever reason, of similar scale, it is natural to wonder about compatibility. It could be a bonus, for sure, but it is pretty arbitrary to conclude that these games should be compatible, even if the licensing issues described above are merely rumors.
-
This is a fairly niche forum even by the standards of miniatures hobby message boards. I think it's important to keep in mind the vast chasm yawning between LAF posters and the target customer of a crossover product like Star Wars Legion, which is a person who may have never even considered themselves a "gamer" much less a miniatures war gamer, before seeing this specific product. For that kind of person, a 6-15mm scale miniatures game has very limited appeal - although for some of us, this might seem ideal.
Additonally, there is a rumor of some kind of licensing dispute (that has been patched over) between Hasbro and FFG. The result is that FFG has limited distribution rights regarding Imperial Assault, which in turn implies that FFG would in no way, shape, or form risk a similar burden related to Legion, so compatibility between components of these two games would be out of the question as a matter of principle.
Finally, and more fundamentally, Imperial Assault and Legion are unrelated games. Because both include miniatures among their components and those miniatures are, for whatever reason, of similar scale, it is natural to wonder about compatibility. It could be a bonus, for sure, but it is pretty arbitrary to conclude that these games should be compatible, even if the licensing issues described above are merely rumors.
Well Micro Machines and the XWIng game have been popularizing Star Wars in small sclaes (ranging from like 2-20mm, but most often in 6/15mm IMO) for decades. revell and Ertl have been doing the same.
So I think, I'd disagree and argue they just went the easy way and chose to make another IA...and thereby ürofit from GW's and the Perry Brothers ' "indoctrination" that 28mm is the "best" scale.
Btw: of course this is a niche forum, but it's not a nerd-rage forum. As the relative moderate success of the recent GoT KS from CMON has shown, many people in here do represent larger buyers segments, and these don't buy if they (i.e. We) don't like it. :D
-
I mean, even referencing some kind of supposed indoctrination conspiracy is an example of being at least a bit out of touch, even within the niche within a niche of tabletop miniatures gaming. Scale creep is not limited to the 25-28-32 progression, after all; not a few lines marketed as 15mm are closer to 20mm in practice (e.g., Xyston). Some kind of prefence for larger as opposed to smaller minis is not so totally unfounded in observed trends as to require a theory of indoctrination.
In FFG's case, I don't think the issue is following GW's lead or the Perrys more specifically (or were you referencing post-GW Perrys, whose lines run to a slim 30mm nowadays). I've posted it in this thread twice before already but a designer working for FFG has publicaly stated the company was frustrated by the lack of detail that they experienced with smaller scale figures, which happened in the case to which he was referring to be about 15mm. Regardless of what GW is doing, FFG has its own reasons to prefer 32-35mm miniatures.
Referencing toy lines or model kits isn't too convincing. This is in line with a certain kind of hobby veteran mindset, the development of an eye for cobbling togeter suitable materials from wherever they can be found. But as to Legion, we are considering a product aimed at mainstream consumers who are looking for a pretty well complete out-of-the-box experience. The size of some unrelated toy is unlikely to occur to them at all.
-
Sorry, I still do NOT get it, what is wrong with FFG? ???
Fantasy Flight Games stand accused of using a "pay to win" business model in many of their games under which you have to keep buying new product in order to remain competitive. And if you look at the section headed "Build Your Army" in the article at https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/8/18/star-wars-legion/ it looks like Star Wars Legions will follow that model, at least to some extent.
Their core starter sets are usually good value but expanding the game, which you'll need to do if you want to win in tournament or remain competitive in an open environment, gets expensive. Some of the expansions for their Runewars game have two figures (one mounted) with a recommended retail of £25. Rank and file troops are cheaper than that, but you'll be needing the expensive ones if you want to win games against people who have them.
They do seem to have backed off from the worse excesses of this model under which people were paying large sums of money on X-Wing just to get a card with a special ability which could only be found in a pack with a model that was useless to them.
FFG make good games. But their history suggests you'll be buying into something that can easily turn into an arms race and money pit.
-
I think the arms race point is only really germane to the competitive/PUG context.
-
I think the arms race point is only really germane to the competitive/PUG context.
Indeed. It can be avoided if you keep things under control and play with a group of like-minded individuals.
But how many wargames can avoid New Shiny Syndrome.
-
Well TBH that is a separate issue.
-
New shiny which increases the effectiveness of your force can be very difficult to resist. Add in some iconic Star Wars character or vehicle and the effect will be magnified for many.
The question becomes, can everyone in the group you play with muster the levels of self-control necessary to avoid the arms race money pit?
-
I mean, even referencing some kind of supposed indoctrination conspiracy is an example of being at least a bit out of touch, even within the niche within a niche of tabletop miniatures gaming. Scale creep is not limited to the 25-28-32 progression, after all; not a few lines marketed as 15mm are closer to 20mm in practice (e.g., Xyston). Some kind of prefence for larger as opposed to smaller minis is not so totally unfounded in observed trends as to require a theory of indoctrination.
^^Buddy, you're sure, you mean what you were just saying? This reply is rather impolite and strange to me, and I think, you can have this thread now for yourself and I'll enjoy painting some minis.
The idea that 28s sell better is mostly relying on the large scale advertisement by GW and others. Take monies and do the same for smaller scales (e.g.: FoW) and it will also work for smaller scales.
-
And here's a demo game with a closer look at the rules:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZj9Hxf4o5Y
-
And another - smaller one - with a nice lava table:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6tBP1lIimA&spfreload=5
-
There is a lot of negativity here, but Star Wars Legion looks fantastic. I would have wanted the figures to match Imperial Assault to allow cross overs but from the photo the scale difference doesn't seem so bad. I think FFG have picked the perfect scale for this game and I can't wait to see the inevitable release of the Hoth battle participants and the Rebel Fleet Troopers.
I do hope that the prequels get a look in as I'd love to game the Gungan/Droid battle and the street fighting in Theed.
There's every chance that FFG will do epic scale figures for use in the X-Wing game to allow for air to ground combat.
I can't wait for the new year.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/Zuf2AzD.jpg)
Damn, too big a difference, I fear I am out... :(
-
(http://i.imgur.com/Zuf2AzD.jpg)
Damn, too big a difference, I fear I am out... :(
The quality looks excellent, but you´re right - those don´t go well together... :-[ :'( >:(
-
And in addition it is also a unique scale, so all your terrain etc will be for nothing.
I am sad.
-
Ahhh now that stormtrooper photo changes everything! They are massive! That's ridiculous! NOW I'm pi**ed right off!
-
(http://i.imgur.com/Zuf2AzD.jpg)
Damn, too big a difference, I fear I am out... :(
Ahem...
I was also thinking about the minis shown so far. Everything that I can find about them says that they are all resin prototypes. I wonder if they were shrunk down to the expected final PVC size or if they were printed at 100%? If they were printed at 100%, the final figures will be smaller than what has been shown.
All may not be lost yet.
-
And in addition it is also a unique scale, so all your terrain etc will be for nothing.
I am sad.
Yes, that is indeed a strange step. Wonder what they were thinking...could have set off some nice synnergies (and crossovers) if it would have stayed at least roughly compatible with IA.
-
I dont have any IA miniatures, as IA did not really appeal to me. But if these minis are too big for my terrain, that would pose a little problem, as I'm not loving making new terrain. But I'm still very exited and have in fact already preordered this. I always wanted a supported Star wars game like that and now I will get what I wanted. So happy all in all.
-
I appreciate I'm in a minority, but the minis I like best are well-proportioned 1/48 scale. These look like they might fit the bill for me.
-
Any word on the board size? I'm hoping its 4x4'.
-
Well, I can see all the pros and cons that everyone has mentioned and all have valid points.
I may well grab this if the material is right over everything else.
Bendy plastic and I wont bother but if they are not too soft I am probably in.
The slightly larger size is fine as I do not have enough IA figures to worry about that and it will be easier on my eyes when it comes to painting.
:D
Scenery compatibility?: Stick to 'natural' environments and you are fine.
;)
-
Well, now we can ask the IA troopers 'aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?'
-
That pic is definitely a shame with the IA collectors out there. Moreso if FFG dumps IA (and I suspect they will as they got some flak for making a Star Wars "board game" since they don't hold the license for that - hence the "wargaming" rules added in).
I'll be curious to see how big the actual figures are when they're released. If it's close to GW-esque scale it'll do well enough. I'm still likely in for a used or discounted copy or two in the far future (in the hopes FFG sticks to this one) for my own wargaming purposes.
-
My choice of miniatures for Star Wars in 28mm is WotC bendies, which I'm over my eyeballs into by now. So you won't see me changing over to this new scale; for me even IA was too big (read: heroic).
So only if eventually re-sold boxes become available without the minis, I might be tempted to buy one, because trust me; I've got all the Star Wars minis I could possibly want already... ::) And even then, only when the game has proven to be fun and solid mind you! ;)
The components certainly do look nice, but I've come to expect nothing less from FFG to be honest... :)
-
I can't wait to get my hands on this.
Scale seems perfect for painting!
-
That pic is definitely a shame with the IA collectors out there. Moreso if FFG dumps IA (and I suspect they will as they got some flak for making a Star Wars "board game" since they don't hold the license for that - hence the "wargaming" rules added in).
I'll be curious to see how big the actual figures are when they're released. If it's close to GW-esque scale it'll do well enough. I'm still likely in for a used or discounted copy or two in the far future (in the hopes FFG sticks to this one) for my own wargaming purposes.
I fear that SW Legionmodels are too big, IA is perfect for GW!
-
I'm quite looking forward to this one.
Have a lot of IA minis and enjoy that game.
I'm not too bothered about the different scales , I sort of expect that from gaming companies releasing a new game.
The price of the core set seems on par with others being by released I.e about £70. Am interest to see what expansions will be and the price of those. Hope it gets some longevity.
-
I fear that SW Legionmodels are too big, IA is perfect for GW!
Gotcha. Yeah if they're more than a heroic 32, I'll be out.
-
The price of the core set seems on par with others being by released I.e about £70. Am interest to see what expansions will be and the price of those. Hope it gets some longevity.
That price point would be acceptable to me for a bucket of nice SW toys.
Not even bothered about the rules as there are plenty of options there.
As for expansion packs, I fell for X-Wing in a big enough way (but not anywhere near as far as some have!), so I will probably cave there too.....although I have a head start with some.
All in all, I think I am certainly going in for this, the material is the only thing to worry about now.
Please: No soft bendy plastic!
-
I might have missed this, but although I'm not in for the game, I'd love some Tattoine buildings. Anyone know if terrain is likely to be forthcoming?
-
I would highly doubt it, outside of barricades. If the figures are big, FFG has little interest in producing what would be rather huge buildings, etc. I'd love to be wrong, but I wouldn't imagine that's in the pipeline. If they are, expect mad prices. :D
-
I might have missed this, but although I'm not in for the game, I'd love some Tattoine buildings. Anyone know if terrain is likely to be forthcoming?
I know a man who makes them on commision ;)
So with this new game does that mean there will be a load of IA stuff going cheap on ebay, suits me :D
-
I know a man who makes them on commision ;)
Is that right? Who might that be? :)
-
I'm not in until I see the plans for the next sets. They're not compatible with anything else, so if the range remains small with excessive figure costs for what limited extra sets they do release, my interest will remain purely academic.
-
All very nice and all, but what material? Icky PVC? Most of the IA models look like they were a nightmare to clean up.
Hard plastic stormtroopers on the other hand would sell like hotcakes regardless of size differences.
Regardless, I am going to remain a complete wargaming hipster and stick to my WEG 25mm ;)
-
Wave 1 expansions will be dominated by core set minis:
- stormtroopers
- speeder bikes
- rebel troopers
- AT-RT
- dice
- measurement tool
Hints dropped during demos:
- Leia (commander)
- scout troopers (special forces)
- AT-ST
- snow speeder
Love the DLT-19 and HH-12 stormies. The Z-6 (chain blaster), eh whatever. Other rebel SAW is rumored to be some kind of ion rifle.
Very excited about how Armor works. Only critical hits damage units with Armor. There is only one critical result per die, regardless of color. Weapons with Impact X special rule may convert X hit results to critical hits.
DLT-19 is Impact 1,HH-12 is Impact 3. A normal stormie is 11 points (E-11 blaster rolls one white [worst] die). DLT-19 (2 red [best] dice) stormie is 24 points. HH-12 (3 black [mid] dice) stormie costs 34.
Basic stormies squad is NCO plus 3 stormies with E-11s for 44 points. Can add an additional E-11 stormie for 11 pts and one of the SAW stormies. So a single squad is 44-89 points and normal games are 800 pts per side. Keep in mind that your force must include commander: Luke is 160 and Vader 200 pts.
Hope this gives a sense of the scale of the game.
-
Depending on weapon ranges, that sounds doable on 4x4' :)
-
All very nice and all, but what material? Icky PVC? Most of the IA models look like they were a nightmare to clean up.
They are, as bad as the Studio McVey and Mantic restic stuff :-[ The lightsabers and some of the weapons are also a pain to straighten.
However, having said all that, I won't be buying these if they are as tall as they appear to be. The IA figures tower over Hasslefree and most of my other figures, so much so that I'm not sure they'll work on the same table. These new figures will just not work at all, which is a huge shame as I'd have liked some more poses for the stormtroopers and rebels.
If they do some vehicles, however, I could be tempted...
-
Not my scale!!! but I hope they do some sceneries and buildings to use with my WEG 25mm :D!!!!
-
Can you not play the game using other figures? Just substitute in WTC figures and any arms race is over even before it began.
-
Agreed. I'm sure people will be flogging off the rules and cards etc on ebay for cheap because they just want the minis. So those with the minis already can get the game for a nice price and use their own.
-
Depending on weapon ranges, that sounds doable on 4x4' :)
Reports from GenCon claimed the board size will be 3'x3' for small games or 6'x3' for full size battles.
I couldn't wait and started a Jedha mat right away: http://finiatures.blogspot.de/2017/08/one-day-build-jedha-gaming-mat.html (http://finiatures.blogspot.de/2017/08/one-day-build-jedha-gaming-mat.html)
Regardless, I am going to remain a complete wargaming hipster and stick to my WEG 25mm ;)
This is probably why the scale doesn't bug me at all... None of the miniatures games, neither WoTC, WotC RPG, IA nor Knight Models were in scale with my WEG/Grenadier chaps. I'm totally hyped for the new game. Core set is preordered and eyes are peeled for any news on wave 1.
-
(http://i.imgur.com/Zuf2AzD.jpg)
Damn, too big a difference, I fear I am out... :(
That's so disappointing.
That pic is definitely a shame with the IA collectors out there. Moreso if FFG dumps IA (and I suspect they will as they got some flak for making a Star Wars "board game" since they don't hold the license for that - hence the "wargaming" rules added in).
They are about to release an app for it so unlikely. Even if they do the skirmish mode will exist forever. ;)
-
Primaris stormtroopers ;D
-
Nothing new under the sun. About 20 years ago, the chap from Global Games (Legions of Steel, Inferno. etc.) took me aside at a Gen Con and showed me something he was working on - an Imperial Stormtrooper in 1/48 for a licensed Star Wars skirmish game. Sadly he could not make it work but it's interesting that it has taken so long for Star Wars in 1/48 to surface again. Lucasfilm licensing has always been weird apparently. They insisted WEG do their figures in 25mm with "realistic" proportions. Compared to 4oK they were puny, boring and sold poorly.
-
Primaris stormtroopers ;D
lol
-
Nothing new under the sun. About 20 years ago, the chap from Global Games (Legions of Steel, Inferno. etc.) took me aside at a Gen Con and showed me something he was working on - an Imperial Stormtrooper in 1/48 for a licensed Star Wars skirmish game. Sadly he could not make it work but it's interesting that it has taken so long for Star Wars in 1/48 to surface again. Lucasfilm licensing has always been weird apparently. They insisted WEG do their figures in 25mm with "realistic" proportions. Compared to 4oK they were puny, boring and sold poorly.
I wonder if that was due to Lucasfilm not anticipating where the wargaming market was headed. I find it odd that FFG did not let the 2 games swap pieces about. I wonder if Disney had a part in that or if it was some plan to get people to buy into two games? Puts me off two games personally.
-
They insisted WEG do their figures in 25mm with "realistic" proportions. Compared to 4oK they were puny, boring and sold poorly.
IMHO I think that's a little harsh - the WEG sculpts, while small are full of character and capture many of the leads particularly well. The Stormtroopers are excellent. Honestly I like them, they are are nice hand sculpts from another era, whereas most things are soulless digital sculpts now. Each to their own though of course.
-
Just out of curiosity are there any company doing "not stormtrooper" heads for 28mm? Not that I would buy them of course I was just wondering.
-
Just out of curiosity are there any company doing "not stormtrooper" heads for 28mm? Not that I would buy them of course I was just wondering.
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/141711268902 (http://www.ebay.ie/itm/141711268902)
-
I went to Gencon and while I could not get near enough to the demo to really see/hear the rules, I saw the models. They are larger than Imperial Assault, but honestly ... not by much. I think that photo shown is a bit wonky. Should also mention, the base size is thicker.
Does preclude you from using your IA models in Legion, sort of. I can see a few short stormtrooper jokes floating around -- see if anyone can spot the Luke disguised as a stormtrooper within all of those Legion troopers.
The models really did look good -- I thought the rebels looks especially interesting. No vehicles shown yet, other than the Not AT-ST the rebels have, but considering that tank that came with the IA expansion, we really can't complain too much about proper scale. And for what these are worth, I even have some crappy pictures taken through glass and from too far away. Again, look at the thickness on those bases compared to the IA models.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0WPMNpDGmRTbWtMZ1hvN0pPQWc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0WPMNpDGmRTcGtHdlM0Um1keU0/view?usp=sharing
PS -- at work, and too busy to figure out how to share the pics properly, so just click them :)
-
(http://i.imgur.com/6nrb4g6.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/8MpHpb1.jpg)
;)
-
Thanks for the links and the pic upload guys - good ones considering they're through glass.
The bases ARE thick, but the models do seem rather nice - the walker, in particular, seems nicely detailed and well proportioned and as scrawny as it should be rather than having thick, clumsy legs.
-
Interestingly, the partially visible ticket on the right hand side of the rebel commandos image, looks to read Not Final Product… so maybe they are painted prototypes specifically for GenCon?
-
Thanks, Earther.
Technology bad. Fire bad. Get off my lawn.
-
If the bases aren't integral to the figures (in the painting video, they aren't) you just need to swap them for a smaller size one. That would shave some height on them.
-
Having seen those photos and done a bit of reading around the place I think it is highly likely that I'll be buying into this. More than a little miffed the IA stuff will be out of scale but will almost certainly buy in nonetheless.
Bring on the Gungans! lol
-
There's an article (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/11/10/it-is-the-future-you-see-2/) about the new game over on the FFG blog. Pre-order link (https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-legion/products/star-wars-legion/) $89.95
I don't see scale mentioned, but I've only skimmed the article.
-
Depending on the figure some of the Legion stuff may be fine with IA. The more alien figures may not jar in the same way as directly comparing stormtroopers, for example.
Did no one else read that Big Luke link back on page 3 or 4? What the hell is that all about? I'd never heard about it before but it sounds like a drunken conversation. It also reminded me of the Father Ted 'these cows are far away' bit.
-
I see the set is up for release in Australia in December at the nice round price of AU$150. Discounted through some sellers to be a little cheaper at AU$135. I hope someone does some comparison pics between which of the IA figures are reasonably compatible before I nibble on this release.
US Prices are:
Core set (33 figs - Darth Vader, Luke, 14 stormtroopers, 14 rebel trooper plus Rebel AT-RT and 2 Imperial speeder bikes) $90
Imperial Speeder Bike expansion (2 speeder bikes) $25
Imperial Stormtroopers (7 figs) $25
AT-ST $50
Rebel AT-RT walker $25
Rebel Troopers (7 figs) $25
T-47 Airspeeder $35
pics:
-
I still wait until I see the final product to check the scale.
If the minis are really that big, like 36mm, I might pass this one.
-
The size issue might not be that bad with some of the vehicles?
-
The size issue might not be that bad with some of the vehicles?
True, but as along time SW fan I already got these ...
;)
-
Did no one else read that Big Luke link back on page 3 or 4? What the hell is that all about? I'd never heard about it before but it sounds like a drunken conversation. It also reminded me of the Father Ted 'these cows are far away' bit.
I did not take any notice until you mentioned it and have just read it.
What a load of waffle, it seems some people have to find hidden meanings or conspiracies everywhere.
It reckon it is just a wind up to see if anyone will start taking it seriously.
Take this quote for example:
The activity of combing the original Star Wars trilogy for instances of Bigger Luke is known as Luking.
That HAS to be a wind up, surely.
lol lol
-
No no no; this is a very serious theory. Also, I might add that the linked to article is out-dated, as proper Luking measurements are now done in YHE's (Yoda Height Equivalents), as there is also an ongoing debate about the obvious Yoda size differences between the wonderful prequels and outdated original trilogy...
Really; I troll you not... ;D
-
lol lol lol
Aren't you a little short for a Jedi Master?
-
Prices aren't too bad, but not good enough to tempt me to buy in. It would frustrate me to no end to already have two Imperial Assault AT ST's and not be able to use them without buying another just to get the darn cards and tokens.
That said, if my Adepticon swag bag comes with a Legion starter set the way it came with a runewars starter set last year I might get reeled into this the same way I got reeled into Runewars.
Here's to hoping I guess...
-
I'm not really following this all that hard, but they have previewed a couple new packs of Imperials, a set of 7 snowtroopers and a General Veers to lead them. No rebels listed
Prices nominally $25 and $13 for each set.
I'm waiting on someone to get them and do a real size comparison so I can see if I want to throw the white armour into a Star Wars/Aliens mashup :)
-
I've seen surprisingly little about the game on LAF, even though it's out now. As such, I didn't have a lot to go on except for a load of frothing reviews, mostly from 'normies' (those strange, non-wargaming types who read Polygon and GeekNSundry for their game reviews lol ). So... I bought the core set.
Straight up, there's a lot to like: the game system is generally cool, there are lots of minis in the box, and it's Star Wars.
BUT, there's also a lot to dislike if you have experience of miniature gaming and painting. Strap yourselves in:
1. The miniatures aren't great. There, I said it. Scale-wise, they're around 38mm, and yet they manage to be less detailed than their 28mm Imperial Assault counterparts. They're made from cheap bendy plastic, probably in China, which can't be assembled with poly cement, and are an absolute pain to clean of mold lines. Credit where it's due, however: the Stormtroopers work really well, although some of their poses are a little unnatural.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/41048145652_0213b97627_z.jpg)
(Knight models Superman shown for scale, purely because he's technically the same or similar scale. Note the very different proportions).
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/791/39282560290_e8ac3b7257.jpg)
(This abomination is supposed to be Mark Hamill, before the crash).
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/874/27218639268_683c40c414.jpg)
(Not my photo. This is allegedly Han Solo. And I think that's the studio paint job. WTF?)
2. The rulebook. Oh, god. It's laid out in typical FFG style, which means it's a catalogue of clauses and sub-clauses, with the core rules obscurely hidden away. When you get to to them, they're really good, but you have to work at it. But, ah, it's not actually a rulebook - it's a quickstart guide. The actual 50-page rulebook is online as a free PDF. The thing in the box is only there to let you play a starter scenario with the minis in the box. Because...
3. You don't get enough miniatures to form a 'legal' army for either faction. Not only that, but you get around half as many dice as you need for an average roll. So yes, just like X-Wing, you need to buy two core boxes to play a 'proper' game.
4. On the subject of rules, let's talk about the 'measuring tools'. A hinged plastic construction. I've read and re-red the 2 pages of movement rules over and over, and I can't work out why they don't use a tape measure. In fact, when you have a board full of miniatures and scenery, the measuring tool makes things more difficult. And they handily come in inch increments (3, 5, 7). The only time the tool is important is when moving vehicles, because they can't turn more than 90 degrees. Personally, I'd ditch the page of vehicle movement rules and say 'Vehicles can move 5", but can't turn more than 90 degrees', but what do I know? lol - Anyway, those measuring tools have cool Star Wars patterns on them, so I'm chopping them up to use as scenery.
You also have a range ruler, which is pieced together from bits of plastic, to measure 'range 1, range 2. range 3'. and it just so happens that each increment is... 6" long... o_o
5. Aesthetics. Why oh why are the first wave of releases based around Hoth and Endor forces, except for Luke, who's in his Bespin outfit? Does this mean we'll see Ewoks early on? Hardly the best way to sell it. and it means that the beloved characters already scheduled (like Leia and Han) are neither in archetypal outfits, nor best poses. Added to the fact that they don't look like the actors, and I'm seriously wondering why they've bothered.
Overall, there really *is* a lot to like, but not if you're a die-hard collector and painter. This is a cheap plastic mass battle game, with echoes of FFG's usual business model - buy a cheapo toy, when you're really paying for a mountain of cards. I'm really not going all-in based on this experience. If they raise the quality of the miniatures, I might buy a few characters to paint up later down the line. And I'll probably be house-ruling it, a lot, to make it more of a skirmish game than a huge unit-based game. Because Star Wars is a heroic space opera!
The only reason I'm a bit cross is because I'm a huge fan of the franchise, and I particularly wanted a bit of care and attention to be spent on the miniatures of beloved characters. Who the heck is sculpting these? And how are they getting approved by Disney?
I... I think I might not be the target audience... lol
-
I... I think I might not be the target audience... lol
lol Welcome to the club lol
-
I read several times that it was mentioned here and in the internet that the miniatures aren't great. That is an argument that made me still hesitate to buy it. On the other side looking on the first picture above the details are far better than my painting skills....
-
I've seen surprisingly little about the game on LAF, even though it's out now. As such, I didn't have a lot to go on except for a load of frothing reviews, mostly from 'normies' (those strange, non-wargaming types who read Polygon and GeekNSundry for their game reviews lol ). So... I bought the core set.
Well, I did at least posted some mini comparison and my 1st paint job.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=108236.0
Straight up, there's a lot to like: the game system is generally cool, there are lots of minis in the box, and it's Star Wars.
My impression exactly, there are countless similarities to my ViDe system so I have to like it. ;)
1. The miniatures aren't great. There, I said it. Scale-wise, they're around 38mm, and yet they manage to be less detailed than their 28mm Imperial Assault counterparts. They're made from cheap bendy plastic, probably in China, which can't be assembled with poly cement, and are an absolute pain to clean of mold lines. …
(Not my photo. This is allegedly Han Solo. And I think that's the studio paint job. WTF?)
Well IMO they are keeping the budget tight when it come to minis. Luke, Veers, Leia and Han are all bad minis. Vader is OK.
2. The rulebook. Oh, god. It's laid out in typical FFG style, which means it's a catalogue of clauses and sub-clauses, with the core rules obscurely hidden away. When you get to to them, they're really good, but you have to work at it. But, ah, it's not actually a rulebook - it's a quickstart guide. The actual 50-page rulebook is online as a free PDF. The thing in the box is only there to let you play a starter scenario with the minis in the box. Because...
3. You don't get enough miniatures to form a 'legal' army for either faction. Not only that, but you get around half as many dice as you need for an average roll. So yes, just like X-Wing, you need to buy two core boxes to play a 'proper' game.
Agreed on all! I was amazed to realize that I need more minis just to have a small platoon sized “legal” force!
4. On the subject of rules, let's talk about the 'measuring tools'. A hinged plastic construction. I've read and re-red the 2 pages of movement rules over and over, and I can't work out why they don't use a tape measure. In fact, when you have a board full of miniatures and scenery, the measuring tool makes things more difficult. And they handily come in inch increments (3, 5, 7). The only time the tool is important is when moving vehicles, because they can't turn more than 90 degrees. Personally, I'd ditch the page of vehicle movement rules and say 'Vehicles can move 5", but can't turn more than 90 degrees', but what do I know? lol - Anyway, those measuring tools have cool Star Wars patterns on them, so I'm chopping them up to use as scenery.
You also have a range ruler, which is pieced together from bits of plastic, to measure 'range 1, range 2. range 3'. and it just so happens that each increment is... 6" long... o_o
LOL, my thoughts also. Why oh why. Maybe they want to be separate from normal wargames, I don’t know. However I triggered an interesting discussion on the FFG forum when revealing that I rebased my minis on 25mm based, because I do not like the cone look of the original FFG bases.
An eager tournament oriented crowd pointed out that the bases are 27mm, and that all my minis are now illegal! Depsite the fact that I am not planning to play any FFG GTs, some argued that the additional 2mm are relevant. Maybe some are thinking that the movement ruler brings some boardgame like precision to the game!
-
Well, I did at least posted some mini comparison and my 1st paint job.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=108236.0
Sorry Agis! I did a forum search and didn't even find that. Great paintwork, and I see you've used the IA Han, which I'm also planning to do (just going to rebase so he's a few mm taller).
However I triggered an interesting discussion on the FFG forum when revealing that I rebased my minis on 25mm based, because I do not like the cone look of the original FFG bases.
An eager tournament oriented crowd pointed out that the bases are 27mm, and that all my minis are now illegal! Depsite the fact that I am not planning to play any FFG GTs, some argued that the additional 2mm are relevant. Maybe some are thinking that the movement ruler brings some boardgame like precision to the game!
I saw a very similar discussion on one of the Facebook pages - someone had ordered a bunch of laser cut 25mm clear bases, and all the tournament guys were very vocal about it - they're 2mm diameter less, and 2mm lower, so they're 'illegal'. This to me is FFG's core audience - the competitive gamer who just wants stuff they can play with quickly out of the box, no ambiguity, and aesthetics are secondary to gameplay.
So I placed an order for a load of slim profile 25mm bases today, and I'm mounting my Speeder Bikes on ovals... lol
-
I also just spent a little time replacing Vader's cloak, because I hate the sculpting of the plastic one:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/810/40384352224_124dce02a4.jpg)
It's going to take a while to green stuff the back, so I won't show that part yet :-D
-
Well, I did at least posted some mini comparison and my 1st paint job.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=108236.0My impression exactly, there are countless similarities to my ViDe system so I have to like it. ;)Well IMO they are keeping the budget tight when it come to minis. Luke, Veers, Leia and Han are all bad minis. Vader is OK.Agreed on all! I was amazed to realize that I need more minis just to have a small platoon sized “legal” force!
LOL, my thoughts also. Why oh why. Maybe they want to be separate from normal wargames, I don’t know. However I triggered an interesting discussion on the FFG forum when revealing that I rebased my minis on 25mm based, because I do not like the cone look of the original FFG bases.
An eager tournament oriented crowd pointed out that the bases are 27mm, and that all my minis are now illegal! Depsite the fact that I am not planning to play any FFG GTs, some argued that the additional 2mm are relevant. Maybe some are thinking that the movement ruler brings some boardgame like precision to the game!
I'm guessing most of the people on the FFG forum all come from X-wing, so the idea of different bases is completly foreign to them and they're used to movement templates. I guess if that's all you know the system looks like it would work perfectly, but for any one who's used to regular wargaming it feels very restricting
-
I didn't try the game myself but I had the chance to see alot of the minis in action at Adepticon last weekend. I agree that up close they aren't great, but from a distance they look pretty good and I don't know that my tabletop-quality paint jobs woul beneifit from better sculpts
If they had given a Legion starter box away in the swag bag the way they did for Runewars last year, I'd probably give it a go but instead, I'm going to continue collecting Imperial Assault and probably ignore this. I alreay have one Star Wars game I don't play (though I'm hoping to introduce it to my kids in a year or so) and I'm not interested in a bunch of figs in a new scale.
As for gameplay, it looks alot like Runewars to me. A couple months ago that would have been a real selling point as I felt the Runewars rules were pretty good. However, since the closing of the one store around here that had some active players that game just died. The Runewars folks were pretty casual but I don't have a desire to get into the inevitable tournament style of play that was X-wing an will likely be Legion as well.
As others have said it just feels like an opportunity was lost here. If the scale was the same as ImpAssault I'd definitely at least have bought some of the Legion figs (maybe even the whole game) for the crossover potential and possibly even to use with other rulesets like "Blasters and Bulkheads".
Lastly, it's probably a bit self-righteous of me, but the scale thing really annoys me and I don't want to reward FFG for this kind of thing by purchasing Legion. I'm a bit fickle so maybe something will change but for now this is definitely a skip.
-
But, here's my main issue...
I like Star Wars. Not a massive nut, but I like it quite a bit (original trilogy, really). No one has ever put out a consistently available line of wargaming miniatures for the game, and no one else is likely to do so in the foreseeable future.
So...do I just bite the bullet and collect the minis - dumping the cards/dice on eBay to recoup costs, etc. I've zero interest in partaking in an FFG gaming scheme, but I "think" I could put up with the miniatures, particularly if I found them at discount, etc. So, as the best option available and likely for some time, do I get involved?
I'm leaning toward yes at the moment, even if I just stockpile the minis away for a rainy day.
-
I don't think Legion will provide a range of figures that your usual gamer* would find compete. They'll suit the tournament crowd (which is fine, as it's really a tournament game) but for us gamers that are looking for a comprehensive range, casualties, more troops in different poses etc I don't think we'll be getting it. As stated before, there's no chance to mix and match with other ranges either, which is a shame :(
I was having a quick chat about it with my mate the other day and I was bemoaning the scale change. He didn't have a problem with it until I pointed out the above and went "oh yeah, that's a bugger".
*Not meant in a insulting way to those that bought into Legion and the ethos behind it of course.
-
But, here's my main issue...
I like Star Wars. Not a massive nut, but I like it quite a bit (original trilogy, really). No one has ever put out a consistently available line of wargaming miniatures for the game, and no one else is likely to do so in the foreseeable future.
So...do I just bite the bullet and collect the minis - dumping the cards/dice on eBay to recoup costs, etc. I've zero interest in partaking in an FFG gaming scheme, but I "think" I could put up with the miniatures, particularly if I found them at discount, etc. So, as the best option available and likely for some time, do I get involved?
I'm leaning toward yes at the moment, even if I just stockpile the minis away for a rainy day.
Despite my feelings about the game for you I'd actually say yes.
Legion being released means that it will be possible to acquire SW wargaming figs in a variety and number previously impossible. It's possible there will be more and better figs in the future, but it's also equally possible that this will be the only SW wargame for a long time.
The size is annoying but I will add that there are a fair number of 35mm+ ranges coming out these days including a fair bit from Reaper Chrnonoscope so chances of adding some figures from other ranges will exist.
I feel similarly about LOTR figures. I don't actively play the game, but I liked the first three Jackson films alot. These are probably the only wargaming figure range that will be released of those films and eventually the line will end so I scoop those figures up when I find them cheap in the hope that someday I'll play some game with them with my kids.
However, as for Legion I'd only recommend it if...
-You're ok with some sculpt limits and or doing conversions. As was mentioned, you're probably going to get 4-6 poses per troop type, no casualties, etc. I did alot of repositionaing of minis for runwars. It wasn't hard (another benefit of soft PVC'ish plastics) and the look is much better but it would have looked very samey if I'd used the figuers stock
-You aren't a completionist. Sounds like you aren't so that's good. I think that FFG will release ALOT of minis (look at how IA was/is) and the selection will be good, but there will surely be gaps.
-You don't have a way to acquire the older prepainted figs. From what I've seen, the prepaints are better proportioned, similar quality in sculpt and better sized for compatibility with other ranges.
-You're willing to put down serious cash. There will likely be some sales, but SW as a property is still hot and I don't forsee alot of discount bin Legion figs.
-
As for gameplay, it looks alot like Runewars to me. A couple months ago that would have been a real selling point as I felt the Runewars rules were pretty good. However, since the closing of the one store around here that had some active players that game just died. The Runewars folks were pretty casual but I don't have a desire to get into the inevitable tournament style of play that was X-wing an will likely be Legion as well.
Ahh runewars. That really did drop like a turd in the night didn't it?
We ran demos of it at salute alongside our x wing table, and while i admit the X wing table may have over shadowed runewars a bit (I offered to build them a runewars table, I really did.) the game got a luke warm "eh. i guess" from most players.
The fact that terrain seemed to be a hinderance to the mechanics of the game annoyed me, And the miniatures weren't so great that warhammer players used them as proxies.
It seemed like FFG desperately trying to shoehorn something into the big warhammer shaped hole left by age of sigmar, which age of sigmar promptly filled for most players.
I sort of don't like FFG and I'm not sure why, Bu ti think Legion has highlighted what it is i don't like. The tournament/comp focus in game design often acts in detriment to fun or creativity in the hobby and the actual physical product is often a set of high production cards alongside some "good enough" miniatures.
-
Ahh runewars. That really did drop like a turd in the night didn't it?
We ran demos of it at salute alongside our x wing table, and while i admit the X wing table may have over shadowed runewars a bit (I offered to build them a runewars table, I really did.) the game got a luke warm "eh. i guess" from most players.
The fact that terrain seemed to be a hinderance to the mechanics of the game annoyed me, And the miniatures weren't so great that warhammer players used them as proxies.
It seemed like FFG desperately trying to shoehorn something into the big warhammer shaped hole left by age of sigmar, which age of sigmar promptly filled for most players.
I sort of don't like FFG and I'm not sure why, Bu ti think Legion has highlighted what it is i don't like. The tournament/comp focus in game design often acts in detriment to fun or creativity in the hobby and the actual physical product is often a set of high production cards alongside some "good enough" miniatures.
I agree about the tournament/comp focus for FFG's wargames.
FFG can make a great boardgame and some especially nice aventure boardgames. I even like the fact that the rules for their wargames are incredibly tight without alot of room for re/mis-interpretation.
However, they all seem to be aimed at tournament play and structured around rewarding those who are cleverest in listbuilding which basically comes down to the collecting and stacking of cards and abilities. Supposedly they've listened to criticism in that you don't have to buy multiple factions to get all the cards you'll need for a certain faction, but you still have to buy alot of units (potnentially ones you don't want an possibly multiples) to get all the cards you will need to play competitively. If I wanted that experience I'd be playing CCG's.
I think one of the things that I liked about Runewars was that the folks I was playing with had other competitive game obessions and were not as serious about Runewars. I could show up with some units and some cards I'd picked out and have a reasonably good chance of winning based on tactics. If I'm honest I have to admit that if Runewars had taken off -and my local shop supporting it hadn't closed- I might well have gotten turned off by the same tournament mindset that folks bring to X-wing that would likely have taken over Runewars too.
At least at the end of the line I've still got a nearly-finished army of good-guy figures
https://www.chicagoskirmishwargames.com/blog/2017/05/04/runewars-daqan-army-finished/
that I like and plan to use in Kings of War someday.
-
Overall, there really *is* a lot to like, but not if you're a die-hard collector and painter. This is a cheap plastic mass battle game, with echoes of FFG's usual business model - buy a cheapo toy, when you're really paying for a mountain of cards.
If there's one thing it's not, that's cheap.
-
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/874/27218639268_683c40c414.jpg)
Is it me, or does it look more like Patrick Swayze
(http://gente.ig.com.br/images/330/79/79/6524352.patrick_swayze_1gente___fotos_333_499.jpg)
-
"Nobody puts my Wookie in a corner!"
-
"Nobody puts my Wookie in a corner!"
lol lol lol
-
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/874/27218639268_683c40c414.jpg)
Is it me, or does it look more like Patrick Swayze
(http://gente.ig.com.br/images/330/79/79/6524352.patrick_swayze_1gente___fotos_333_499.jpg)
I was thinking Malcolm Reynolds.
-
If there's one thing it's not, that's cheap.
That was kinda my point - these bendy plastic minis cost pennies to produce, so really you're paying for the cards, not the miniatures.
-
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/874/27218639268_683c40c414.jpg)
Is it me, or does it look more like Patrick Swayze
(http://gente.ig.com.br/images/330/79/79/6524352.patrick_swayze_1gente___fotos_333_499.jpg)
Definitley look's more like Pat than Harrison. Weird, but almost cool.
-
While I had assumed the scale change from Imperial Assault was purely to ensure both games were not compatible (thus requiring more purchases), could it actually have something to do with licenses? After all, both the type of game and scale seems to be a major factor in those, so while Imperial Assault (officially a board game) could be 28mm, they had to go larger or smaller for Legion? (Either because a 28mm miniature game was off the table, or even because compatability between both was not allowed.)
Not saying FFG won't be tricksy in the hope of making more money out of it. I've got a decent X-Wing collection, and the upgrade card system made me lose interest in Legion quite quickly. Fine for casual games, but I won't enjoy working with the models (material mostly) enough to warrant a purchase. I also really don't get the dice thing; if they'd increase the price of the starter box by a tenner and included all necessary dice, nobody would care in the slightest, while this just feels disappointing.
-
Having just played my first couple of games this weekend, I must admit that, after first being sceptical, I actually really like the game.
Obviously, it's in the by now classic FFG style, with specific dice you don't get enough of (this also was the case with X-Wing), upgrade cards which are the core of the game and so a must have (adhering to their tried and trusted sales schemes of course) and game specific rulers.
But I just like the great finish they have for all of their games, which (for me at least) adds to the enjoyment of the game. And the game mechanics are just nice and simple, so it can be a great gateway game.
It's just that I already own a large amount of WotC Star Wars miniatures, which I'm in the process of repainting, so I'm not interested in getting yet another scale of miniatures. I had the same thing with Imperial Assault, and these are obviously worse in the compatibility department (although they're nice enough minis in their own right).
So I'm probably going to buy into this game, but will be either avoiding the miniatures or flogging them. And I'll have to be more strict with myself than I have been with X-Wing; that started out with a box and a few expansions, and I'm now nearing 100 ships ::)
Yes; it might be a good idea to start creating the Photoshop templates for Legion cards already...
-
Obviously, it's in the by now classic FFG style, with specific dice you don't get enough of (this also was the case with X-Wing), upgrade cards which are the core of the game and so a must have (adhering to their tried and trusted sales schemes of course) and game specific rulers.
IMO only the dice are a problem. The movement sticks and range sticks (4x 6” increments) can be easily substituted by good old range ruler. For all the marker any generic marker would also do it.
Upgrade cards etc. can be just printed on a summary. I was actually loving out loud when I realized that there is a card, just get add an additional trooper to a squad. FFG is really overdoing it. ;)
It's just that I already own a large amount of WotC Star Wars miniatures, which I'm in the process of repainting, so I'm not interested in getting yet another scale of miniatures. I had the same thing with Imperial Assault, and these are obviously worse in the compatibility department (although they're nice enough minis in their own right).
So I'm probably going to buy into this game, but will be either avoiding the miniatures or flogging them. And I'll have to be more strict with myself than I have been with X-Wing; that started out with a box and a few expansions, and I'm now nearing 100 ships ::)
Yes; it might be a good idea to start creating the Photoshop templates for Legion cards already...
Yep the scale sxxxs.
As for Photoshop, see above - IMO only necessary if you want to play in tournaments, and there you are maybe rejected if using copied cards…
;)
-
All good points but for one thing; I'm with Elbows on the whole Holistic Gaming take. ;)
Which means I want all the pretty side dressing matching the game I'm playing. That means dice, rulers, tokens, cards etc. So ideally, I want the original dice and cards, as there already are acrylic tokens available I saw. The original (movement) rulers are nice, with moulded on detail matching the ranges on the cards, so even though one could get subsitutes in acrylic or MDF, in this case, only the originals will do.
As for the cards: It is extremely unlikely that I will ever play this game in a tournament, so disqualification because of homemade cards is not an issue. But as stated above; I'd really like the gaming aids to be as nice as possible, so original, or as close as possible to original cards are part of that.
And even though I'm not against buying my required cards from resellers, I'd also like the opportunity to create my own units and make the corresponding cards, for which I'd be needing those templates of course.
Oh; and I completely agree with you on the +1 trooper cards; that's just naff. They could have taken a clue from Warmachine, where bare unit costs are stated, plus the costs of each possible add-on, all on one card... ::)
-
We played another game of Legion this afternoon, after playing the basic game we added extra troops and heavy weapons and more command cards. I think it works really well, play easily and is good fun! Here's an AAR of this afternoon's clash: http://stormofsteelwargaming.blogspot.com/2018/07/I-am-your-father-star-wars-legion-AAR.html
-
Excellent AAR on your blog.
Will be playing the basic game in a few days.
Have to finish a few figures.
-
Thank you, there is a longer AAR a couple of posts down n the blog, but that one was only using two squads each of five troopers and a commander each. It's an excellent game, but really needs more figures/units I think.