Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: Sir Rodney Ffing on September 12, 2017, 05:16:22 PM
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Has anyone got any news, or even heard any recent rumours, on when the expansion is likely to appear? Last I heard September was a possibility but it has all gone quiet, unless I have missed something that is.
Whoever said 'no news is good news' clearly wasn't a wargamer. o_o
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News to me. What was this expansion suppose to contain?
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Hmm . . . if it contains more scenarios, that's brilliant. A new unit or two might be okay. But I don't really want to see four new columns (a la Saga).
A new setting (Amazon? Hindu Kush?) might be the best bet, perhaps. That way you can get in a couple of new columns and new characters to lead them, and another 6-8 scenarios without upsetting the balance of Congo itself.
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The new extension is a whole campaign for two players. It contains no new faction...just the two characters involved in the campaign.
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Solo play rules would be very useful though potentially quite tricky to get to work.
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The new extension is a whole campaign for two players. It contains no new faction...just the two characters involved in the campaign.
Now that sounds good.
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It is also supposed to include new rules for animal encounters, hippos etc.
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Hello to all Congo lovers. I bring you news. The new book for Congo arrives, it will be there in October. This is a campaign that will allow you to relive the adventures of Mary Kingsley ... 6 new adventures, new characters, new animals ... You will live a new adventure in the heart of Africa. We have really worked hard on this supplement to offer you a new game experience for Congo. We hope you like it ...
So soon ...
Fred
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Great news!
DJ
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Fred - that is great news, thanks!
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Great news Fred, eagerly awaited
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@ Hobbyone ,
yeah !!! I canīt wait ! please krrp us informed.
cheers Grimm
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See the Congo FB group for more info! Mungo Mah Lobeh (The Throne of Thunder) will apparently include new characters , new animals, alternative dangerous terrain tables and optional rules and come with two new WF figures which will not be sold separately. The six scenarios can be played separately or as part of the campaign.
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Any news on release date !
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(http://ultraimg.com/images/2017/09/14/Y1jF.jpg)
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Really great news!
Any chance we might get a sneaky preview? Perhaps a few hints on the new dangerous terrain that will be included... :)
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Well, it's October now and hopefully publication is fast approaching. Does anyone have news of a confirmed release date?
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A wargames illustrated Prime only flip through of the new book is up!
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Having watched the flip through i'm slightly confused why they chose Mary Kingsley.
Also her expedition wasn't very exploratory (as it was inspired by Sir Richard Francis Burton who climber Mount Cameroon first) at that point in time the caravans as they are in say, 1870 had been essentially killed off with the original (and extremely interesting) caravan culture strong-armed and replaced by increasing amounts of Europeans.
Mainly given that Congo is roughly set in about 1870 and Kingsley had her expedition at the very tail end of the Scramble in 1895 it doesnt reallymfit in with the classic 'flavour' that Congo vocally tries to emphasise.
Don't get me wrong, I shall be buying the book, but I would question why they didn't do Burton and Speke or Samuel and Florence Baker (an actual female explorer!) or a 'generic' campaign so you can make up your own!
Peoples thoughts?
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I'm not all that sure Burton and Speke, or Speke and Grant are even all that suitable candidates for Congo. They were from that generation of explorers that tended to bargain their way through territory, and thus don't really provide much scope for combat gaming (unless you hang rather a lot of what-ifs on them). It was really Stanley and Peters who brought the idea that the best method of exploring was to shoot one's way across Africa, demonstrating one's superiority to the natives rather than negotiating with them.
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Well, she is a famous Victorian lady who climbed Mount Cameroon by a previously unattempted route. I believe that gives her credibility as an explorer. I'm also encouraged by the fact that she valued local peoples' customs and religions - even going so far as criticising missionaries for their practice of conversion. I'm now very keen on tracking down one of her travel accounts and reading it.
The campaign supplement looks terrific and I hope it is a success and ST decide to publish some more volumes.
My only disappointment, is that it looks like there are no new 'environments'. I was hoping that we might get scenarios in new settings. There appear to be new tables for savannah and jungle, although I'm not sure why they are needed. I guess we'll find out when we get our hands on the book... Here's hoping Foundry have some copies at SELWG on Sunday!
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I will buy it, but I have to admit I am a bit disappointed too. I am probably in the minority, but when a campaign book was first announced, I was hoping for something less linear in structure which would throw up random encounters as the expedition moves across the map, possibly suffering desertions, losses to illness etc, and see the player have to interact with potentially hostile village chiefs on the way (trade hongo for food, hire new porters, warriors etc). OK, probably too much to ask for given Congo's focus on broadly balanced tabletop scenarios, but am I the only one interested in something on those lines?
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I've seen it mentioned that it will be released at Crisis in Antwerp, which would make the release November 4th.
I confess I rather like the look of the new book although it is mainly the new scenarios and creatures that interest me. As to why they chose Kingsley, I'm not sure, except of course she wrote a couple of books and, more importantly, was independent, not being accompanied by a husband.
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I think actual exploration is needed for exploration, taking a previously un-attempted route to get to the same place...doesn't really count...in that case if I took a competently new route to China I could claim to be an explorer.
''I'm also encouraged by the fact that she valued local peoples' customs and religions - even going so far as criticising missionaries for their practice of conversion.''
She was also a paternalistic racist, cut from pretty much the same cloth as all of them, she took a more sympathetic tone but she still thought Africans were inferiors.
''I'm not all that sure Burton and Speke, or Speke and Grant are even all that suitable candidates for Congo. They were from that generation of explorers that tended to bargain their way through territory, and thus don't really provide much scope for combat gaming (unless you hang rather a lot of what-ifs on them).''
Going to have to school you dear boy...the fact is ALL explorers bargained there way through territories, it was a large part of custom and unavoidable.
''It was really Stanley and Peters who brought the idea that the best method of exploring was to shoot one's way across Africa, demonstrating one's superiority to the natives rather than negotiating with them.''
Stanley also didn't actually get into many gun fights, evidence shows that he exaggerated them as he was used to writing for a bloodthirsty Yank audience when he covered the Indian wars, ironically this would have negative blowback as the British public recoiled, also Burton and Speke were likely the opposite, they new that fighting and killing Africans was frowned upon so downplayed it.
Peters wasn't an explorer really, he came later and helped tear up the caravan system and local custom, he was essentially part of the second wave that would come in and secure previously ''discovered'' territories, he also came way after the classic Congo period of the early 1870's.
For the most part the image of fighting explorers was exaggerated at best,it was the Africans and Arabs having the true fights, Sir Rodney's suggestions really match how actual expeditions went(just finished a masters dissertation on them so I should know lol).
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But surely Congo is Boy's Own stuff and not really attempting to model the rather tiresome day to day mundane misery of a C19 African expedition.
If it's printing the legend, which I think it most firmly is, then shoehorning in Kingsley is fine by me although I confess I'd rather they used a fictitious character modelled loosely on her - an Alice Quatermain, if you like.
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''But surely Congo is Boy's Own stuff and not really attempting to model the rather tiresome day to day mundane misery of a C19 African expedition. ''
If we take that as a given, Kingsley makes less sense, her expedition was at the tail end when most things had become civilised and the caravan routes were German dominated.
For that classic adventure ''feel'' the Bakers would have suited better.
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And against that she has the advantage of offering a caravan with a woman in sole charge, and as it's not really about authenticity, more about wild stories, why should it matter whether she explored less in real life?
As I say, I'd rather they created fictional characters (perhaps loosely based on real-life counterparts) but if they want to use historic names, I can't see it worth getting hung up over historic details. It would be different if it was a more historically accurate game, but it isn't.
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'' And against that she has the advantage of offering a caravan with a woman in sole charge,''
While impressive not remotely comparable to earlier expeditions as the caravan culture had changed massively in the between period - long story short with German dominance caravaneers lost their powers of collective bargaining (you see in earlier writings they threaten or indeed, do abandon things when self-interest pops up) and thus, become much more amenable.
If she had of tried the same route alone in Burton or even Stanley's time she would have likely failed/been killed.
''why should it matter whether she explored less in real life?''
Because in keeping with the feel as you mentioned, an actual explorer exploring during the scramble period would suit better, what she did (while impressive and scientifically valuable) was essentially a safari/tourism/ she did not really explore.
....Or to put it another way, actual exploration of the unknown is required, her predecessors adventured for fame and glory with the knowledge that it would be difficult and death was very likely...in 1895 a good deal of the risks had disappeared or lessened.
I agree on the generic campaign, my one problem with Congo is the insistence on ''named'' individuals (especially for scenarios) I prefer a slightly looser feel so I can make up my own.
I know I seem awfully grognard-ish but having spent months on a masters dissertation it just seems bizarre the choices, she's comparatively unknown.
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rather tiresome day to day mundane misery
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Each to their own, sir, each to their own.
Personally, I think Congo cries out for that type of setting, which would capture the unpredictable nature of 19th century exploration rather better than scripted scenarios can possibly hope to do. And that would still leave plenty of scope for Boy's Own stuff on the tabletop, with the added benefit (at least in my opinion) that some of the games generated would be truly heroic actions against very difficult odds, rather than play-tested and evenly balanced scenarios. Objectives could be the challenging matter of survival rather than (say) collecting flags from the middle of a river (OK, I know that one is meant to be symbolic, but it still seems a bit silly to me) and throw up genuine player choices. Feeling the pinch because provisions are running low but the nearby village is unfriendly? Do you move on and hope for better luck next time (albeit on short commons), try to take what you want by force (which might prejudice other nearby villages against you), or call a halt and try your luck at hunting? Maybe you are on low rations because some of the porters deserted in the night taking livestock with them, or perhaps they absconded with your hongo leaving you nothing to trade?
If only......... :'(
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Agreed, Sir Rodney, i've been toying of the idea of a sharp practice list/campaign for colonial explorers as I have all the reading material and notes left over from my dissertation...might have tog et started lol.
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Kommando - I have thought about having a go too, but hoped that the Congo campaign would spare me the effort, as well as likely being better than anything I could come up with myself.
Last year I managed to obtain a copy of an out of print RPG, Dark Continent, which has plenty of good background, some usable ideas and even blank maps that can be filled in as you explore east Africa. It is intended to be GM driven around scripted adventures though, so isn't set up for what I want and needs mechanisms to generate random but plausible events. One day.....
But with your master's thesis behind you, you sound very well placed to produce something on those lines. And if you key it into Sharp Practice, I bet Lardy Rich would be interested in publishing it!
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Sir Rodney, there is a game called "Adventures in Jimland" that does this type of thing. You explore a grid and encounters, discoveries, events and terrain are randomly generated as you go. It might be possible to use only the campaign aspect of these rules, ditching the combat system and substituting your own, such as Congo. The idea is that each player has an expedition (that has to be outfitted at the beginning, and you need porters, trade goods for gifts and such), but also plays the natives when their rival gets into a fight.
It would probably be a bit of work converting it to work with Congo, but less work than starting from nothing. Note, I haven't actually played the game myself, so cannot exactly vouch for it. But it might be worth checking out. As you might suspect if you see the cover, you would have to remove dinosaurs from the animal encounter table, as it does have a slightly VSF "Lost World" thing going on there. But with that removed it could be played entirely as a non-fantastic game.
Dark Continent is a really nice product. I have a copy myself. Never actually played it, but I'm glad I got it just for the read.
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We think alike Plynkes, I bought Congo hoping it would give me my explorer 'fix', wasn't quite what I had hoped tbh.
I also have a copy of the Dark Continent rpg for the same purpose...and two months of fuck all to do, it would seem fate has spoken!
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Plynkes - thanks for the great tip. I hadn't heard of "Adventures in Jimland" before, but found it easily with Google and it seems to be the kind of thing I am aiming for. Some work to do certainly, but a time saver and a good start.
Kommando - go on, you know you want to!
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There's a nice (free) map campaign for 'Death in the Dark Continent' which would probably work with Congo. Each faction gets its own track on the map.
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Plynkes - thanks for the great tip. I hadn't heard of "Adventures in Jimland" before, but found it easily with Google and it seems to be the kind of thing I am aiming for. Some work to do certainly, but a time saver and a good start.
Jimland is good fun. I think it ought to be relatively easy to substitute different units from the Congo rules for the various randomly encountered tribesmen from Jimland. I say I think because although I've played Congo I don't own the rules.
And as Plynkes says if you just leave out the dinosaurs (and lizardmen, skeletons, yetis...) from the encounters list you can play perfectly "normal" Darkest Africa type games.
There's two or three Jimland (or in my case Tombogo) AAR's over on my blog if that helps
http://tomstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Tombogo
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Up on pre order on the Foundry site!
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My copy arrived today, along with the miniatures. Looks very nice. More when I've had a chance to read it
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A quick review after a read through.
First, the miniatures are very nice. I got the box with the animals and extra characters at vast expense from Foundry, and the supplement also comes with two figures for Mary and the sorcerer.
The supplement itself I found a little underwhelming, although I'm not entirely sure why.
It has a nice campaign system with a series of linked scenarios, plus the ability to advance you main character and gather extra reinforcements for your column. There's a time constraint as well (which can be mitigated by using bearers).
Between scenarios you decide what route to take and roll on different tables - higher risk routes are faster.
There's a bunch of extra rules for the new animals, all fun, and the new characters.
There are new encounter tables which can be used instead of (or as well as) the existing ones.
There are some new terrain types (quicksand and such like)
At the end of the series of scenarios there's a sort of mini-game involving the two main characters who are trying to climb Mt Cameroon (Mary) or complete a ritual (the Sorcerer). That can add campaign VPs.
The scenarios are mostly symmetrical - both sides have the same objectives, and I think that's why I was a bit underwhelmed.
The nice thing about the scenarios with the main book is that most of them are asymmetrical (a couple are not).
I was expecting the campaign to be a contest between the two main characters with Mary confronting the sorcerer at the end, and either converting him to Christianity of she wins, or 'going native' if she loses, but it's not like that at all. The characters compete for resources in the scenarios, but they don't directly fight at the end.
I can't help feeling they missed a trick here - a 'ladder campaign' like Chain of Command would have been fun, with two sides (say White men and Zanzibaris) trying to reach and destroy the other's base through a series of asymmetrical scenarios.
So in conclusion, I don't feel the supplement is a waste of money, and some of the new scenarios look interesting, but I feel it could have been a lot better and indeed more generic than it is.
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Is the advance system just for the two characters?
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You can advance the other characters in your column as well, but most of the advances are reserved for the two principal actors in the drama (the game comes with 3 cards for each as they get more powerful)
There are some nice new characters (the doctor, the archeologist, the diviner and umm, forget what the other native character is)
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..............(the doctor, the archeologist, the diviner and umm, forget what the other native character is)
The wiseman :D
DJ