Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Mad Lord Snapcase on October 03, 2017, 10:39:08 AM
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I was sorting thropugh some of my Dad's stuff and I came across this postcard. Does anyone know anything about this photo?
(http://i.imgur.com/Q65yLTS.jpg) (https://imgur.com/Q65yLTS)
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Anything on the back?
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Well, it looks like a WW1 light bomber, which would tie with the word 'Baroda' because 124 (Baroda) Squadron was a Royal Flying Corps light bomber squadron.
Other than that, I guess you'd have to dig into the archives.
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Note it seems to be a 'pusher' aircraft, ie. the propellers are behind the wings.
EDIT: I'm struggling to identify it to be honest. It seems similar to a few different types of early aircraft, like the Vickers Gunbus (below), but I can't find one to match the exact arrangement with that hump behind the pilot's cockpit and the slanting struts connecting the wings to the fuselage.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/RAF_Vickers_FB5_Gunbus.jpg)
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Looks like an FE2 to me, but those pushers all look a bit the same.
It may be a presentation aircraft. You could raise funds and "buy" an aircraft for the RFC. Many were paid for by the Maharajas and/or populations of various Indian states, Baroda being one of them, and they would have that name on them (usually with a number: 'Baroda No.3', ‘Punjab No.23 Kamal’ etc.).
124 (Baroda) Squadron was formed in 1918, so would have been unlikely to have an FE2. Though they were a training squadron, so it is possible, I guess.
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I'd say it's an F.E.2b too.
The Wikipedia entry for the No. 124 (Baroda) Squadron RAF states they had miscellaneous training aircraft:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._124_Squadron_RAF
And in 1918 the F.E.2s were really only suited for training and night time bombing. And in places where there wasn't an opposing air force.
Only image with "Baroda" linked to it for a WWI aircraft on the Imperial War Museum site is from earlier in the war:
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205314772
But it does give a good idea of the shape. (And some idea of what a flat wargaming table looks like!)
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It looks like a FE2b to me too, now that I'm on a proper computer.
This clip shows a number of FE2's, including one with what looks like a "Presented By" inscription. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an5xl0IylYI
More here too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdyxPCCuQaQ
This little snippet may or may not be helpful.
Just to add a little to the story, FE2b 6359 was a presentation aeroplane, marked Baroda No 17 that was delivered to No 20 Sqn RFC on 19 February 1916. The undercarriage was modified by Lt E Trafford Jones in the period shortly before his death.
Gareth
From http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/156713-pilot-killed-16-may-1916/
Here's a presentation aircraft. in this case from the Punjab (a Gunbus, not an FE2) :
(http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/37fda2acdd764c799744f7643de40b15/fighter-plane-with-crew-ww1-drhy2y.jpg)
Without a registration number (typically on the tailplane), a list of 'all' aircraft gifted from Baroda or specific squadron marking, it's hard to go much further.
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The text at the nose, below the gunner's position, seems to be Arabic, related to the location of the squadron at the time (or earlier) or the presentation, I'd guess.
P.S. I'd go for an F.E.2 as well.
Slightly later:
there she is, F.E.2.b.:
http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3044&cat=3# (http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3044&cat=3#)
Pic before the last is Baroda, no. 23 squadron.
And again from Getty images:
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/royal-aircraft-factory-f-e-2b-biplane-baroda-of-no-23-news-photo/486508699#royal-aircraft-factory-fe2b-biplane-baroda-of-no-23-squadron-rfc-picture-id486508699 (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/royal-aircraft-factory-f-e-2b-biplane-baroda-of-no-23-news-photo/486508699#royal-aircraft-factory-fe2b-biplane-baroda-of-no-23-squadron-rfc-picture-id486508699)
This last link gives her story, she was shot down by none other than Immelmann!
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Looks like there was more than one FE2 donated by Baroda then. Shame there's no visible number.
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Vanvlak - that's the F.E.2b I posted (though the IWM lists the registration number as "635", not "6352".
The OP photo has a F.E.2b with a "V" type undercarriage, so I doubt it's the No. 23 Squadron aircraft (earlier undercarriage). The colour is also different (later war), not 1916.
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The pilot looks like Captain Lionel Hicks RFC
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Vanvlak - that's the F.E.2b I posted (though the IMM lists the registration number as "635", not "6352".
The OP photo has a F.E.2b with a "V" type undercarriage, so I doubt it's the No. 23 Squadron aircraft (earlier undercarriage). The colour is also different (later war), not 1916.
It is, I missed that link of yours.
Wonder what the Arab text says.
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Thanks to everybody for all that information and the links. Some very helpful posts, thank you.
Driscoles, that's an interesting lead on the pilot, I am trawling the internet for images now to compare.
There is nothing useful on the back of the post card unfortunately. I can't ask my Dad where the card came from as he died a couple of weeks ago. However, his father (my grandfather) served in the 9th Hampshires in India 1916-18 and then Siberia in 1919. I have some other postcards that he brought home with him and he may have picked this one up somewhere.
Yes, that marking on the nose may be quite a useful clue if anyone can identify what it means.
Once again, thanks everybody for the help.
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Wonder what the Arab text says.
If there is a connection with Baroda state, I'm wondering if that's more likely to be Persian or Gujarati than Arabic.
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If there is a connection with Baroda state, I'm wondering if that's more likely to be Persian or Gujarati than Arabic.
Correct - but it's not Gujarati text, or at least doesn't appear to be; could be Persian though.
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I found this page on Lionel Hicks:
http://lh.airwar1.org.uk/
Driscoles - how do you know about him?
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It looks to me as if the roundel's outer ring is lighter than the centre, in other words
outer ring = red,
centre = blue
Have you considered that it might be French ?
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I noticed that, too. But I don't think the French used that type of plane. I think it is more likely that the outer ring is light blue, and the inner dark red. The inner ring looks darker than the outer on loads of photos of British planes from the Great War.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/29/163_04_10_17_10_46_42.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/29/163_04_10_17_10_47_14.jpg)
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It looks to me as if the roundel's outer ring is lighter than the centre, in other words
outer ring = red,
centre = blue
Have you considered that it might be French ?
That's just the film emulsion & it's interaction with red & blue colours. RAF roundels usually do look reversed on early B & W films. A bit of background here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film
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Thanks guys, I never knew that. Love this forum.
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@ von Lucky.
Iam very much interested in ww1 not particular aereal combat but the posted picture captured my attention so I googled Fe2b and old pics and found lots and I found Captain Hicks. There are some similarities!
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Oh - that makes more sense. I thought you were a Captain Hicks fan before this thread was started. I just found that to be incredibly niche!