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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Koyote on May 21, 2018, 06:04:22 AM

Title: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on May 21, 2018, 06:04:22 AM
Another year, another SAGA warband.  This time it's going to be Pagan Rus. 

Whether Viking women fought alongside their male counterparts is still being debated, but one of the few historical accounts of Viking women warriors comes to us from the Greek historian John Skylitzes. According Skylitzes, after the Siege of Dorostolon in 971 AD, the victorious Byzantines found among the Rus casualties, armed women. This one account isn't definitive proof, but its justification enough for me to add Brother Vinni's viking women warriors to my warband.  I LOVE his new Axe Maidens.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img922/4949/xWD5os.png)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on May 21, 2018, 06:27:06 AM
Last week, my Warhansa models arrived.  Overall, I'm please with the quality.  The minis are as-pictured on the website and the detail is good.  There are a few air bubbles here an there, but very little flash and fewer mold lines than expected.

My only complaint is their overall height.  They look like Rus dwarfs.  Their heads, arms, hands, and feet are slightly on the heroic-scale side of 28mm, but the length of their torsos and legs are a bit too short.

Fortunately, short legs are an easy fix.  Using a hobby knife I cut off their lower legs where their leg wraps meet their ketill pants (aka puffy Russian pants).  Using leftover rod from the metal javelins I armed them with, I pinned a short length of GS doweling between the two sections of leg.  Eventually, I will use GS to extend the length of their ketill pants to cover the GS doweling.

I converted 8 out of 12 models in this way.  The other 4 models didn't need it.  Strange.

I'm going to use these as my Pagan Rus levy.  To distinguish these models from my warriors and to better represent a levy's 3/4 armor, I replaced their large round shields with small round shields (made by Footsore Miniatures). 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4903/L2dn2C.jpg)


Below is a size comparison photo.  My converted Warhansa Rus is now fairly close in height to 28mm viking miniatures from other manufacturers.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/3199/KIE2oP.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on May 21, 2018, 06:51:27 AM
Nice. Looking forward to seeing your progress.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 03, 2018, 05:09:47 PM
When planning a warband or army for any other tabletop wargame, I find it useful to start with a theme or backstory.  This approach may not be for everyone, but for me it fuels my creativity and helps me build a more cohesive and interesting warband. 

I came to historical wargaming from a fantasy and sci-fi gaming background, so when researching a historical peoples' history,  I inevitably find myself focusing on their mythical heroes and villains.

In Rus and Slavic myth, the Bogatyr are analogous to Western Europe's knight-errants.  The earliest tales of the Bogatyr have their roots in the pre-Christian era.  In these stories the Bogatyr exhibit superhuman abilities and their foes are often creatures from myth, like dragons and giants, but in later chronicles, the Bogatyr stories are based upon the  historical and semi-historical figures.  Perfect!

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/6607/tkKkg4.png)
Bogatyrs (1898)

A sizeable portion of my Pagan Rus warband will be comprised Gripping Beast's Jomsviking models.  Their ketill pants and the shape of their helmets give these models a Rus look.   GB's Jomsviking hearthguard are the most impressive models from the Jomsviking line, so they will form a unit of elite fighters. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3425/9Zlrjl.jpg)

My first instinct was to make the Hearthguard, but then after reading the Swords for Hire section of the Age of Vikings rulebook  I changed my mind.  The Gall-Gaedhil rules look like a lot of fun, but since these ferocious raiders operated in and around Ireland, fielding them alongside my Rus would be odd.   However, thanks to magic of 'counts-as', a principle borrowed from fantasy and sci-fi gaming,  I have no problem using the Gall-Gaedhil rules if I field them as a unit of 'counts-as' Bogatyr. Problem solved. :)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: OSHIROmodels on June 03, 2018, 05:25:03 PM
Looks promising  8)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 03, 2018, 09:31:46 PM
I've finished sculpting my Levy's ketill pants.  Operation 'Leg Extension' was a success.  :)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4379/5nbtGK.jpg)


Below are my Brother Vinni shield and axe maidens.  The models arrived with very little flash and no deformities or air bubbles.  When it's time to paint them, my only concern will be their mail.  The indentations that define the rings of the chainmail shirts are so fine and shallow, that I'll have to great care when painting them.  If I don't use very thin paint or if I apply too many coats, the indentations will be obscured by the thickness of the paint. 

Overall, these are gorgeous models and they scale well against Gripping Beast and modified Warhansa minis (see below).   However,  unless you are a very patient person (it took 3 months and a PayPal claim for them to arrive) or you buy them from a reputable supplier who has them in stock, you may want to think twice before purchasing them.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/9295/GkZ0rT.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/1249/fV86vv.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Breazer on June 03, 2018, 09:37:35 PM
This looks like quite the fun warband. very cool miniatures collected together.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Hu Rhu on June 04, 2018, 10:03:35 PM
That is a great start.  Looking forward to following this project.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: syrinx0 on June 05, 2018, 01:57:50 AM
This is indeed looking like a great start.  The "easy" modification of all the legs of the one unit would have stopped me.  lol
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 05, 2018, 10:15:28 PM
Baba Yaga is another aspect of Slavic and Rusian folklore that I wish to bring to the SAGA table.  In the earliest Slavic legends, she's a pagan goddess who personifies storms, winter, nature, fate, and death.  In later tales Baba Yaga takes on the role of terrifying old witch who can be both cruel and kind (sometimes both in the same story). This contradiction make her unusual among European folk figures who tend to behave as either an antagonist or an ally/mentor to a story's protagonist.   

So how do I fit this mercurial supernatural creature into my SAGA warband? Well, part of the genius of SAGA is that the abilities on the Battle Board are not constrained by fidelity to historical fact or high degree of realism.  Instead, many of the abilities are best thought of as principles that relate somehow to the faction's martial practices and/or culture.  For instance, in SAGA 1.0, the Vikings' LOKI ability allows a Viking player to remove units of enemy Levy or Warriors that number 3 models or fewer.  This ability can be interpreted as some form of divine intervention from the Norse trickster god, but it can also interpreted as the Vikings or their off-board allies creating a clever ruse or diversion that either scares off or lure away the enemy models.

Similar to the LOKI ability, many of the SAGA 1.0 (and 2.0) Pagan Rus abilities seem like they could have a supernatural origin or may simply be the result of how the Rus and their off-board allies use their surroundings and weather to their advantage.  If it's the former, then Baba Yaga could be the source of the ability's supernatural effects. 

I've ordered blue acrylic tokens to indicate the targets of Blizzard and Biting Cold, but I don't yet have a marker for The Long Winter, which is a table wide effect.  This is where Baba Yaga comes in. For my Irish warband, I created a small vignette depicting children throwing rocks. I used it to taunt my opponents and indicate my use of the Sons of Dana ability.  For the Pagan Rus, the plan is to do something similar.  I am going to create a Baba Yaga vignette that I place on the board when I activate the The Long Winter ability. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/5249/PPxbbs.png)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: horridperson on June 05, 2018, 10:22:24 PM
This is a really cool project.  Great job on the warhansa figures.  Do you have a model in mind for Baba Yaga?  If you don't check out the Dejar figures.  Quite expensive, but worth it by the look of it.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Breazer on June 06, 2018, 04:04:08 AM
That sounds like a great idea. The image you posted with your post reminded me of the bloodrage mystics expansion. The raven clan mystics look a lot like a good depiction of a baba yaga in miniature form.

(https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/226467780549935104/453770739422724106/raven_msytic.jpg?width=821&height=371)

I hope you don't mind me posting an image here.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 06, 2018, 05:16:27 AM
@horridperson: Do you have a link to Dejar figures?

@Breazer: That model would make a fine Baba Yaga on foot. I have the game. Iím going to dig it out and take a closer look at the the Mystic.  Thanks for the comment and the pic.


Now that I have plan, the next step is to find the right figure.  Carnevale and Eastern Front Studios both make nice Baba Yaga minis, but Carnevale mini is unavailable and the only way to get the Eastern Front mini is to buy a $200 set that includes Baba, her house, a few other items.  The Eastern Front set is frigging fantastic, but I don't know if it's $200 fantastic. 

Pathfinder and Reaper makes a Baba minis, but both models are meh. 

The Bones 4 Kickstarter includes a Baba mini and the render looks awesome, but the quality 28mm ďhuman sizedĒ Bones models is typically fairly poor. 

I'm getting a Baba mini with my Hellboy kickstarter, but that's 12+ months away and I suspect that the model will be closer to 32mm than 28mm historical.

The best Baba-like mini that I have access to right now is the OOP Wyrd Miniatures Zoraida Alternate model. The model is on the small side of 28mm, so it works with 28mm historicals.  Also, its posed squatting down, so if I can find or make a suitable mortar for her to ride in...   (http://z6.ifrm.com/8152/110/0/e5017366/e5017366.gif)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/3811/qykppf.png)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: duhamel on June 06, 2018, 09:24:00 AM
https://gorgon-studios.myshopify.com/collections/characters/products/sycorax-the-witch  ;)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: DintheDin on June 06, 2018, 11:02:32 AM
You are doing a great job, i'll be following youw project! Cheers!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 06, 2018, 03:29:20 PM
https://gorgon-studios.myshopify.com/collections/characters/products/sycorax-the-witch  ;)

Thanks.  I love Gorgon Minis. I already own several of them, including Sycorax the Witch.  I really like their Draugr models.  It'd be fun to find a way to incorporate them into this project.  I could incorporate them into my baggage marker vignettes in a manner similar to how I used baggage marker vignettes to tell the story of my A&A Britons warband. 

The Sycorax model is very cool, and I considered her for the role of Baba Yaga, but the model is tiny (even for historicals) and bit understated.  She could be jazzed up some by sticking her in a mortar, but that'd require a lot of work. 

Speaking of mortars, I ordered a miniature version from a company called Miniature Asian Chef.  Below is a photo from their website.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/4042/e70uPh.png)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: horridperson on June 06, 2018, 08:29:21 PM
Here is an image of the Deraj Studios figure.  Bad Squidoo had some of their models but I,m not sure where you would get this now.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 07, 2018, 01:59:05 AM
I decided that I need a twelfth Brother Vinni axe/shield maiden so I can field these beautiful minis at max unit size.  I have no interest in waiting 3 months for another direct order, so I searched for Brother Vinni minis on eBay.  I couldn't find another pack of axe or shield maidens for sale, but I did find a pack of Brother Vinni arrow wives. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/4097/jXmrrb.png)

Using metal rod, some plastic bits from other kits, and some greenstuff, I transformed an arrow wife into a shield maiden.   

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/787/n5uvf7.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2346/OAhK0R.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/376/hgX5lr.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Little Odo on June 07, 2018, 08:53:09 AM
That is a fab bit of converting there - nicely done!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Hu Rhu on June 07, 2018, 08:53:35 PM
Wonderful conversion.  :-*
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 12, 2018, 03:16:54 PM
I reached out to Deraj Studios and ordered its Baba Yaga mini.  I'm concerned that it won't scale well against my historicals.  As a back up, I have the Zoraida miniature and the miniature mortar, but as you can see the mortar-to-Baba Yaga ratio isn't quite right.  If the Deraj Studio mini doesn't work, I may have to sculpt my own mortar.  It shouldn't be too difficult, but it's a task I had hoped to avoid.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3900/QpAMvM.jpg)

 
I've selected the Gripping Beast Pagan Rus warbanner bearer to serve as my Warlord.  With no visible armor, a mustache instead of a beard, and posed blowing a horn, its not a very menacing figure; however, when sized up against against other 25mm Viking and Rus models, he is quite massive, in both height and girth. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/844/NctmPF.jpg)

The brutish Viking Jarl, popularized in myth and popular culture, has come to be expected, but my favorite Viking and Viking-like characters from modern fiction tend to be fairly good natured and sometimes even jovial warriors who go against type.  Plus, since my warband's theme includes a bit of Slavic folklore, I think I can get away with less ferocious looking Warlord.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: ts on June 12, 2018, 06:24:44 PM
Maybe these Russian figures could be of interest for you?
If interested, try asking Cuprum,where to get them.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 12, 2018, 06:58:24 PM
Amazing!  It's the 3 Bogatyr from Vasnetsov's painting. 

I don't know how I'm going to use them (Pagan Rus don't have the mounted option), but I must have them nonetheless.

And looky what I found on eBay.  :D

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3325/yeopkt.png)


Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: ts on June 12, 2018, 10:37:32 PM
It seems, perhaps you should also look at the Russian Drabant figures?
Here are some links:
http://magazin-soldatikov.ru/products/main-catalog/?SECTION_ID=5591
https://vk.com/drabantminiatures
and for the Bogatyrs
http://cbgames.com.ua/game-system/vlastelin-mira/nabori-i-igrovie-polya-yalworld/tri-bogaturia.htm

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 13, 2018, 06:30:38 PM
It seems, perhaps you should also look at the Russian Drabant figures?
Here are some links:
http://magazin-soldatikov.ru/products/main-catalog/?SECTION_ID=5591
https://vk.com/drabantminiatures
and for the Bogatyrs
http://cbgames.com.ua/game-system/vlastelin-mira/nabori-i-igrovie-polya-yalworld/tri-bogaturia.htm
Thanks.

Oh, I wish I could add some Drabant minis to my warband.  Drabant makes beautiful miniatures (I have 4 boxes of Drabant Vikings), but they don't scale well against the other manufacturers that I use.  Drabant minis are closer to 25mm than 28mm and they short limbs, tiny hands, and very fine features.  All of the weapons cast as part of the model itself (i.e. not cast separately) arrived horribly bent and because the axe hafts and sword blades are so thin, when you bend them back to shape, they often snap off.  Also, the recesses that represent the areas between chainmail links are very shallow, so you have to take extra care when painting them for fear of totally obscuring the detail. 

For me the issues with the weapons and chainmail aren't a deal breaker because the models are so amazing, but their size is.  If I were to create a warband using only Drabant minis their size wouldn't be so much of an issue, but mixing them with 28mm from other manufacturers doesn't work for me. 

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: ts on June 13, 2018, 10:03:00 PM
As said earlier, try to contact Cuprum, and tell about your interest in Russian made figures.
He knows the market and the many Russian private makers.
I would be surprised, if the Russians have several not known outside Russia, who makes figures from their history.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 16, 2018, 10:56:44 PM
Below are two mock-ups of vignettes/baggage markers for my Pagan Rus warband.

The first depicts an Odin-like figure wandering in the deep woods and  happening upon a mound of skulls and bones. His two pet ravens, Huginn and Muninn, are perched on his shoulders.  In the trees, other ravens look down. 

In Norse and ancient Germanic mythology, Odin has many aspects, including wisdom, magic, the gallows, battle, and death.  So whether the bones are the remains of warriors slain in battle, executed criminals, or victims of human sacrifice, the manner of their death is a concern of the Allfather.

The second vignette depicts another traveler of the deep woods.  This time its a young woman.  As she passes a peculiar looking tree, small animals furtively peer out from beneath the undergrowth.

In Slavic and Russian folklore, the Leshii are forest deities or spirits who serve as guardians of forest and its animals.  Depending upon the telling,  a Leshii's appearance can be human-like or tree-like.  They have a wicked sense of humor and they enjoy leading travelers and foragers astray.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/6892/Xu9gKM.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Cyrus the Great on June 18, 2018, 05:11:38 AM
Koyote, very creative all the way around!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: von Lucky on June 18, 2018, 05:45:38 AM
Missed this, but great progress already.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: horridperson on June 20, 2018, 10:27:35 PM
Those vignette bases are going to look awesome when they are finished.  Great minis have stories and both scenes have one to tell.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 21, 2018, 12:38:53 AM
I know the Drabant sculptor, he is an amazingly nice guy. We're both in Moscow so he hand delivered me my William the Bastard. I highly recommend his stuff!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Too Bo Coo on June 21, 2018, 12:47:55 AM
As said earlier, try to contact Cuprum, and tell about your interest in Russian made figures.
He knows the market and the many Russian private makers.
I would be surprised, if the Russians have several not known outside Russia, who makes figures from their history.

I can ask around, but I dont think so. There is a pretty active gaming scene here in Moscow as well as St Petersburg.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: tomrommel1 on June 21, 2018, 06:00:21 AM
what a stunning project
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 23, 2018, 09:10:10 PM
Thanks, everyone.

I've made some progress on the vignettes.  The trees have been pinned to the bases, the tree bases and roots have sculpted, and I've selected the critters for each vignette. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/2545/1dTgwT.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3154/14ZCY0.jpg)

Like Western European folklore, Slavic folktales includes stories of wicked step-mothers sending their step-children into the forest where they inevitably encounter a hungry witch.  In one version of this tale the witch is Baba Yaga.

In my telling of the role of the witch is played by Reaper Miniatures' Estra the Spiritualist and some children from Reaper's Townfolk Children set. 

The Estra model has its right hand raised and its fingers opened like she's trying to grasp something or cast a nasty spell.  Estra isn't a very fast runner so she knows that she must hold off on the creepy witch shit until after she has the children secure in her lair.  So, what I've done is saw off her hand, rotate it 180 degrees, and pin it back in place.  Now, instead of grasping at a couple of lost children she just met, she's offering them an delicious apple.  Mmm... Tastes like green stuff. :)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/7430/KzhzeM.png)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/4698/7g28Jb.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3003/pauzfD.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Hu Rhu on June 25, 2018, 09:56:29 PM
Nice vignettes.  Looking forward to seeing them with a lick of paint, especially the Odin figure in the first base.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Breazer on June 25, 2018, 10:56:24 PM
Very nicely done, This will be another great army.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: syrinx0 on June 26, 2018, 02:20:44 AM
The vignettes really sell your story.  This will indeed be another great army.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 26, 2018, 03:17:21 AM
Deraj Studios' Baba Yaga figure is a beautiful miniature, but its a bit.... larger than expected.  Oh well, this is what I get for not doing my homework. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/527/nj7Ww6.jpg)

Oh well, on to Plan C. 

The Miniature Asian Chef mortar is too large, so I replaced it with large resin urn that was floating about in my bitz box.  Without a dremel, I had to carve out the top of the urn using  the largest bit that would fit in my pin vice (1/8" DIA) and a Xacto blade.  It took an hour and its a miracle that I didn't slice off a finger, but I managed it. 

The mortar's surface is too smooth.  I may add cracks and chips similar to those see on the Deraj Studios min. 

The bottom of the pestle is a resin RPG bit made by Anvil Industry.  I rounded the pointy part and pinned the other end to the bottom of the witch's hands.  I'm not sure that I like the finished pestle.  I may have to do a bit more work on it.

I used a small length of wire to make the mortar "hover" above the base.  I think she needs to hover bit higher.

The angle of the mortar isn't quite right and since the pestle's hand covers the right side of her head, I think she needs to face the other direction.

Clearly, my Long Winter marker still needs a lot of work before it's ready for paint.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/4971/pJPIbA.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/5208/LMP0jF.jpg)

More later...
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: rumacara on June 26, 2018, 08:18:26 AM
Love your work so i will be following with great interest. :-* :-*
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 28, 2018, 07:07:33 PM
I have a painted Aeitus Arthur warband and a painted Age of Vikings warband, but no Age of Crusades warband.  I'm going to keep moving forward on my Pagan Rus, but in the event that the Adepticon SAGA tournament organizers decide to move to a one-source-book format or if I happen upon a Age of Crusades player, I want to have AoC warband ready to paint or play. 

I've decided upon Eastern Princes, more specifically, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania version of the Eastern Princes.  Since the Eastern Princes warband is a cousin to the Pagan Rus, I'm going to merge the two into this one thread.   

The majority of my warband will be comprised of models built from Fireforge Games' Russian Infantry box set.  While the Fireforge "resin" models that I've purchased are absolute garbage, I'm a huge fan of their plastics. 

I shopped around for mounted hearthguard but didn't have much luck.  The Gripping Best Druzhina Cavalry are meh.  Fireforge's resin Druzhina are absolutely out of the running.  Drabant has some nice Druzhina Cav, but both the selection and scale are too small.  Old Glory sells actual Lithuanians, but they aren't much better than Gripping Beast's Druzhina and they're 25mm.  I purchased Curteys Miniatures Eastern Medieval Mounted Knights, which are probably the best of those I've seen, but their poses are stiff, the casts aren't especially sharp, and their panoply is a bit heavier than I want.

To get a feel for Lithuanian armor from the period covered in Age of Crusades sourcebook, I've done some online research and purchased Osprey's Tannenberg and Armies of Medieval Russian 750-1250. Based upon what I've seen, there was a mix of  lamellar and chainmail shirts,acorn helms with chainmail neck guards,and a variety of shield types, including kite shields.  Overall, their armor was lighter than their Teutonic counterparts.  I envision them as somewhere between light and heavy cavalry.   

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/7255/biibEK.png)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/4019/qFLLcH.png)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/2059/qQlCf9.png)


With a specific 'look' in mind, I started looking for plastics that I could kitbash or convert into suitable Lithuanian cavalry armed with javelins (which is how Lithuanian hearthguard are armed in AoC).  I began my conversion with Gripping Beasts Heavy Arab Cavalry.  This gives me lamellar torsos and 'eastern looking' leggings and horses.  Next, I added heads left over from the Fireforge Russian Infantry kit.  I used a bit from Conquest Games Norman Infantry kit for their kite shields and left lower arms.  The shape of the shield is a bit too elongated, but that's something I can fix later or simply learn to live with.  Lastly, I added the metal wire javelins.  The Conquest shield bit is perfect for putting a javelin in the model's shield hand.  The shield, hand, and arm are all one piece, so one can drill through the shield hand without worrying about the shield falling off. I will likely use some GS to fill in gaps and extend the chainmail coifs and neck guards.

Below are my first two kit-bashed Lithuanian hearthguard.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4449/va9Jyu.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/6184/PGR38P.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Hu Rhu on June 30, 2018, 10:01:05 PM
Great looking conversions.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Parrot on July 01, 2018, 05:38:31 AM
Just curious, but what do you not like about the resin fireforge Russians?  Is it the sculpts themselves?  Are the ones that you have poor quality with air bubbles and deformities?  I ask because I bought into the forgestarter program when the Russians were announced and so have several of the resin cavalry figures, all unpainted.  Mine seen to be of decent quality, but if I want to finish a project of them, I will have to buy more and would like to know if my decent quality ones might be a rarity.

Also, the Scandinavian Infantry set which uses the same bodies has some different heads that might go well on Lithuanians.  I really like the conversions and might try something like that in the future.  It sounds like they are stock Arab heavy cavalry with Russian heads and kite shields and javelins?

I have also thought of looking at the Byzantine infantry with Russian heads and arms to expand the options for the Russians.  Do you have any of the resin Russian infantry, the City Militia packs?
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on July 01, 2018, 03:07:30 PM
Just curious, but what do you not like about the resin fireforge Russians?  Is it the sculpts themselves?  Are the ones that you have poor quality with air bubbles and deformities?  I ask because I bought into the forgestarter program when the Russians were announced and so have several of the resin cavalry figures, all unpainted.  Mine seen to be of decent quality, but if I want to finish a project of them, I will have to buy more and would like to know if my decent quality ones might be a rarity.

I purchased their ďresinĒ Russian City Militia pack and two packs of Chernyeklobuki. The infantry and riders are made from a material similar to Games Workshops Finecast material (which GW has stopped using). All of the models were, to some degree, malformed, misaligned, and riddled with air bubble holes. Some of the bits, like the riders' scabbards, were so misshapen that they couldn't be saved, so they ended up in the waste basket.  They are easily among the worst quality minis Iíve had the misfortune to buy.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: pbjunky1 on July 01, 2018, 05:34:20 PM
I'm really enjoying this thread. The kit bashed lithuanians  look the part.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on July 01, 2018, 06:09:10 PM
Thanks.   :D

I've completed the initial assembly of my 8 Eastern Princes (Lithuanian) hearthguard cavalry.  Each model is armed with at least one javelin.  To mix things up a bit, I equipped a few with different hand weapons.  You can't see it from these photos, but I added a scabbarded sword and sheathed knife to each model.  Of course, the model with its sword drawn has an empty scabbard on its hip. 

The kite shields didn't look quite right so I shaved them down to the dimensions of teardrop shields. Getting a consistent size and shape was easier than I had expected.

They still require some GS work and basing, but they look good enough to play some test games.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/2846/0eV7yl.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/810/Ec3xaM.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Khmorg on July 02, 2018, 02:31:42 AM
 :o :o Look Great !!!! :-*
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Too Bo Coo on July 02, 2018, 05:30:45 AM
Just love this project! I was north of Moscow last summer and there was a Baba Yaga museum, I took some pics of the wood carvings of Baba and company, I can post them if you like. I planned on using them for a fantasy project I have planned.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on July 02, 2018, 03:18:13 PM
Just love this project! I was north of Moscow last summer and there was a Baba Yaga museum, I took some pics of the wood carvings of Baba and company, I can post them if you like. I planned on using them for a fantasy project I have planned.
Very cool.  Please do so. \
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Admiral Benbow on July 02, 2018, 03:53:38 PM
Fantastic project! Some exotic figures and I really like your vignettes ...
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on July 03, 2018, 04:41:28 PM
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3325/yeopkt.png)

The Bogatyr have arrived! 

Over the years, I've ordered hundreds of miniatures from scores of manufacturers and resellers, but I have never received my minis packaged in cigarette boxes, until now.  Clever.  The models were well wrapped in bubble wrap so they arrived in perfect, albeit a bit smelly, condition.  LOL. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/1782/KCOvrm.png)

Based on the product photo I was concerned that the Bogatyr models would be a bit too large, but as it turns out the opposite is true.  Like Drabant miniatures, these minis are closer in scale to 25mm than 28mm.  The detail is good and the presence of mold lines is about average. Overall, the quality is quite good. 

As in the painting that served as the inspiration for these minis, the horses' poses are fairly static.  Nevertheless, the sculpts are quite nice. In fact, they rank among the best I've seen from manufacturers that produce metal historicals.  Kudos to the sculptor.

I had hoped to make the Bogatyr armed with a spear my Eastern Princes warlord, but the model's size may preclude that.  I won't know for certain until I get a chance to compare the Bogatyr to my Gripping Beast/Fireforge Games kitbashed hearthguard.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/5900/ywinRB.png)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on July 06, 2018, 08:23:19 PM
Here's what I've put together for my Eastern Princes warlord.  The rider and rearing horse are made by Curteys Miniatures.  The head is from the Fireforge Russian Infantry kit and the shield is carved down Norman kite shield from Conquest Games.

The model can be improved with some GS work, but even so, I feel kind of 'meh' about it.  Even with a rearing horse, the rigidly posed riders makes the model feel stiff and unnatural. I gave its throwing arm a bit of a bend and the head a slight turn to the right, but it didn't do much good.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/8050/5DvHHW.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/1664/Dlefth.jpg)

Yesterday, while doing my daily rounds through the webpages of various miniatures manufacturers I spotted Fireforge Games' new Richard the Lionheart minis.  The model got me thinking.  By using GS to make the top of his helm a bit pointier, swapping out the shield, and carving the lions off of the mounted model's surcoat, this model could make a damn fine Eastern Princes monarch.  The model's armor is heavier than those of my mounted hearthguard, but since Lithuanian warlord's are not equipped with javelins, the heavier armor makes sense.

Sadly, it's cast in Fireforge's "fine resin" material. Nevertheless, against my better judgment and bitter experience with Fireforge's so called "fine resin" miniatures, I placed an order.  I know, it's a gamble.  But it's my hope is that since these are a brand new models, Fireforge will exercise at least some degree of quality control on these products before shipping them to customers.  Fingers crossed.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/1408/AO5D6m.png)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Breazer on July 06, 2018, 08:44:24 PM
oh that is a really cool miniature. I will have to take that same gamble and if i'm lucky I can take a cool picture with him.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Ogrob on July 06, 2018, 08:50:18 PM
Love the bogatyrs, bit jealous of those. Whatever you end up with for your warlord, I'm sure you'll make it look great.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on July 09, 2018, 07:13:26 PM
My V&V vikings arrived and they sure are purty.  The detail is quite nice and the flash and mold lines are minimal. I want all my warriors to have hand weapons (no spears) and I don't care for the shields that came in the kit, so reequipped many of them.

When lined up against viking models from V&V's earlier viking kits and viking models from other manufacturers there is a noticeable difference in height and proportions.  Look at the V&V vikings 4th (old) and 5th (new) from the right.  Compare the size of the model's head and the thickness of the limbs.  The new V&V viking make the the old one looks kind of puny.

The new V&V models scale fairly well against GW human models (Empire & Bretonnians), which got me thinking.  I now have 12 oversized vikings that I probably won't integrate into my Pagan Rus warband, but they would make a mighty-fine Norse Explorers warband for Mordheim.  Twelve models gives me enough for a starting 500 gc warband plus room to grow.  All that I need to do is find a suitable Ulfwerenar model (werewolf) and I'm ready to explore the City of the Damned.  Hmm.. (http://z6.ifrm.com/8152/110/0/e5017366//e5017366.gif)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/8804/tuRZvz.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on July 19, 2018, 11:50:03 PM
I've been disappointed time and again by Fireforge's "fine resin" products, so I was pleasantly surprised when opened my Richard the Lionheart blister today.  The detail is fantastic.  None of the pieces are malformed.  Not one air bubble.  Almost no mold lines or flash.  Overall, a superb product.

I suspect that they've changed their "fine resin" material.  The new material feels denser and slightly heavier.  It's much less brittle.  The surfaces seem smoother.  The material looks and feels like a soft-to-medium plastic.  It's a big improvement.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/954/VK9KOb.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Breazer on July 21, 2018, 12:35:21 PM
I received mine too and already painted it up (see my thread) and for me the model was the same. I discovered one tiny tiny bubble but its really too small to mention. Im now very curious about your warlord.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Ogrob on July 21, 2018, 01:48:50 PM
I usually don't mind resin, but it can vary a lot by batch. I've had compontents from the same manufacturer considerably softer or harder in the same kit. If done well though, it's a perfectly servicable material.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 18, 2019, 05:24:02 PM
Did you ever finish this project? I plan to borrow some of your ideas for my Russian Princes and Age of Magic projects
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Ogrob on April 18, 2019, 07:20:15 PM
Man, I was exited to see this thread surface again but just a necro... I ordered those Bogatyr from the wierd russian seller and had them arrive in the same suspicious russian cigarette boxes. Decent sculpts though, and no problem with customs.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 18, 2019, 08:05:49 PM
Whatís a necro?
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: von Lucky on April 19, 2019, 02:56:39 AM
Thread necromancy (bringing it back from the dead).
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Too Bo Coo on April 19, 2019, 12:03:50 PM
Thread necromancy (bringing it back from the dead).

I learn something new everyday!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Hupp n at em on April 27, 2019, 05:41:34 PM
Thread necromancy (bringing it back from the dead).

Glad you did, this is a great project! Love the vignettes and the excellent cavalry conversions.  Any chance they've been painted?
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: von Lucky on April 27, 2019, 10:06:09 PM
Not my thread! (But will happily take the painted miniatures ;))
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on May 17, 2019, 11:27:41 PM
Did you ever finish this project? I plan to borrow some of your ideas for my Russian Princes and Age of Magic projects

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/2810/vYaqd7.png)

This project is still on hold.

I'm not someone who paints quickly, nor do I have large blocks of time to dedicate to painting.  Some people can knock out a warband in a week or two.  Not me. It'll take me 3-4 months to get a 50+ model warband painted.  In the past, playing in the Adepticon's SAGA tournaments is what motivated me to stick it out for those 3-4 months of painting. I painted Dark Age Irish for Adepticon 2017 and AA Britons for Adepticon 2018.

Last July I learned that I wasn't going to make it to Adepticon 2019, so without the tournament to motivate me, I set my Rus aside in favor of smaller projects linked to campaigns at my local game store (Mordheim, This is Not a Test, and Necromunda).

It's my hope is to return to Adepticon in 2020. If that happens, I'll probably get back work on my Rus this September.

I've also been waiting to see how the Victrix plastic viking kits turn out.  If they are as good renders, they may find a place in my Pagan Rus warband.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Too Bo Coo on May 18, 2019, 05:04:18 AM
Hey! I really apply your reply, and I work much the same way myself. However, Iím not really inquiring about when your project will finish but some aspects about it.

On your Eastern Princes warlord, the first one, where did you source the horse? Had you any luck solving the Baba Yaga issue?
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on May 18, 2019, 04:50:39 PM
Hey! I really apply your reply, and I work much the same way myself. However, Iím not really inquiring about when your project will finish but some aspects about it.

On your Eastern Princes warlord, the first one, where did you source the horse? Had you any luck solving the Baba Yaga issue?
The metal, rearing horse is a Curteys miniature, sold by 1st Corps.  Before kitbashing the Gripping Arab heavy cav and Fireforge Russian kits to make my Lithuanian cavalry, I ordered metal Curteys cav that was labeled, at the time, Lithuanian mounted knights.  To that order I added a warlord, labeled at the time, as "MEC11 Late C12th-Early 13th Medieval Warlord".  Sometime between my order in May of 2018 and now, 1st Corps has reorganized and relabeled many of its minis.  The knights I ordered are no longer labeled as "Lithuanian" and I cannot find the warlord in the webstore.  If you have your heart set on that horse, I recommend that you email 1st Corps a photo of the rearing horse and ask them if the mini is still available.

I realized that I haven't yet posted a photo of my Fireforge, Richard the Lionhearted conversion.  As far as conversions go, it is very simple.  I used a hobby knife to shave the lion heraldry off the model's chest, replaced the shield, and used a bit of GS and the end of a plastic spike to make a conical helm crown.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9457/C1VDQL.jpg)


As for Baba Yaga, I'll probably end up using the model that I made from the old Malifaux Zoraida mini.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3382/tzFzlr.jpg)

When the Hellboy board game that I kickstarted arrived a few weeks ago, the one mini that I was the most excited to see was Baba Yaga, so when I opened the box, the first thing I did was search through the rows and rows of minis for the old witch.  Sadly, Mantic Games has divided the Hellboy kickstarter goodies into two waves, and the first wave doesn't include Baba Yaga.  Assuming that Trump's trade war with China doesn't delay Wave 2, I should have my Hellboy Baba Yaga this coming September or October.  Once I have the mini in hand, I'll decided which to use.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Too Bo Coo on May 19, 2019, 09:46:33 PM
Thanks for the updates! I really appreciate you taking your time to update us.

Since you have the kit, do you think the Richard model would accept a chest from the Heavy Arab set instead of the one included?

Before I tried to contact you I contacted Curseys on FB and they said the horse wasn't theirs. They showed me which current set the rider was connected to, but not the horse. I thought maybe you made a mistake and it was the Conquest horse or somewhere else. Probably not being made any longer...

I really like your cavalry and think to make some variation for a Russian Princes force, or Pagan Peoples.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on May 20, 2019, 12:37:06 AM
Thanks for the updates! I really appreciate you taking your time to update us.

Since you have the kit, do you think the Richard model would accept a chest from the Heavy Arab set instead of the one included?

Before I tried to contact you I contacted Curseys on FB and they said the horse wasn't theirs. They showed me which current set the rider was connected to, but not the horse. I thought maybe you made a mistake and it was the Conquest horse or somewhere else. Probably not being made any longer...

I really like your cavalry and think to make some variation for a Russian Princes force, or Pagan Peoples.
With some cutting and GS, a torso from the GB Arab cav kit should work. Please note that the Richard model is wearing a surcoat, so if you were to replace the torso with an armored torso without a surcoat, the model would be left wearing a skirt.

I searched back through my emails from a year ago. I found the order confirmation. The rearing horse is indeed Conquest Gamesí Medieval Stallion.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Breazer on May 20, 2019, 07:02:56 AM
Oh that is a fun conversion. Would be curious to see it painted!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: poulppy on May 20, 2019, 07:45:50 PM
Great conversion for the bab yaga !
Really great. I like it !

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Too Bo Coo on May 20, 2019, 08:20:36 PM
With some cutting and GS, a torso from the GB Arab cav kit should work. Please note that the Richard model is wearing a surcoat, so if you were to replace the torso with an armored torso without a surcoat, the model would be left wearing a skirt.

I searched back through my emails from a year ago. I found the order confirmation. The rearing horse is indeed Conquest Gamesí Medieval Stallion.



Bravo to me! I couldn't tell perfectly but it sort of looked like the Conquest model. Nice horse!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on July 02, 2019, 07:21:52 PM
Now that I have plan, the next step is to find the right figure.


...

I'm getting a Baba mini with my Hellboy kickstarter, but that's 12+ months away and I suspect that the model will be closer to 32mm than 28mm historical.

My Hellboy board game arrived this last April, but when I looked through the trays of miniatures I couldn't find Baba Yaga.  I assumed that Baba would be in the Wave 2 models delivered this September, but I was wrong.  I stumbled upon her secret hiding place today while reading about the model online.  She is in the Wave 1 box, but she's hidden beneath some large monsters.  All of the trays that hold minis are one level deep, except for the large monster tray, which in the sole instance of the Baba Yaga model, is two models deep.  She's hidden well enough that you will likely only find her if you know where to look or you remove just the right monster from the tray.  Stupid.

Here she is in all her glory.  IMHO, she doesn't have a proper witch nose, but that's something I can fix with some GS.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8581/fVryHg.png)

If you recall from the first page of this thread, my plan is to use Baba Yaga as a marker for the Pagan Rus' Long Winter ability, but now that they've released Age of Magic, I may have another use for her.  She may end up as the Warlord of my haunted forest themed Undead Legions warband.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: bluewillow on July 02, 2019, 07:44:53 PM
Loving the work you have done on the lionheart figure and your baba yaga


Cheers
Matt
French Wargame Holidays
L'Hotel de Hercť
Mayenne, Pays de la Loire
France
"Walk the battlefield in the morning, Wargame it in the afternoon"©
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus & Eastern Princes
Post by: Koyote on March 30, 2022, 10:27:54 PM
With Adepticon 2022 in the rear view mirror, it's time to raise this thread from the dead and get to work on my next SAGA Age of Viking warband, Pagan Rus.

RISE! RISE! RISE PAGAN RUS THREAD! . . .
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/418/dazyvI.gif)


Back in 2018, my original plan was to build the warband from Gripping Beast (HG & Warriors), Brother Vinni (Warriors), and converted Warhansa (Levy) models. 

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/1249/fV86vv.jpg)


With the release of the Victrix plastic Viking kit in 2019, I swapped out all of my Gripping Beast Viking Warriors for shiny new Victrix plastics.

Now, in 2022, urge to convert is upon me once again...

The Gripping Beast Joms models that I was planning for my Hearthguard are some of Gripping Beasts' best legacy metal models, but you find them if SO many Viking and Pagan Rus armies.  Also, while I had fun converting the Warhansa models, they still look like little, stooped over Santa's absent the fat bellies.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img923/4379/5nbtGK.jpg)


My new plan is to ditch the GB Joms, and replace them with converted/kit-bashed Victrix Vikings in chainmail and perhaps a couple of resin Viking minis. I'm keeping the Brother Vinni shield maiden models as a unit of Warriors, and perhaps some of the unarmored Victrix Vikings as Warriors, but the Warhansa Levy are being shelved in favor of a unit or two of javelin Levy converted from Victrix's Dacian Infantry kit.

If you look at the Victrix marketing photo below, you will see that the Dacian kit includes quite a few unarmored models wearing long tunics, pants, and footwear.  They don't have the long hair of the Dark Age Slavic people, but they are pretty hairy.  Best of all, some of the heads have caps that I can easily turn into Slavic style caps by adding a band of greenstuff fur around the bottom of the cap.  The caps with the triangular floppy part on the top can be further extended to make the fur trimmed Santa style hat you see on my Warhansa slavs.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/4396/odIdxI.jpg)


I'll be arming all the models with wire javelins, so between the Dacian sprues' spear-arms and sword-arms, I should have enough non-bow and non-falx arms to snip and drill for javelins.  I have plenty of extra shields in my bitz box, so If I elect to give them small round shields, I already have that covered.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1111/8AyIar.png)


Once my Dacian kit arrives, I'll post pics of my test conversions.



Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on March 31, 2022, 04:54:42 AM
Nice, be interesting to see what you end up with. The dacian kit is on my "to get" list for converting as well.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: .:Gunslinger:. on March 31, 2022, 06:27:42 AM
Sounds very promising! Maybe you can add some of the Victrix Viking Heads onto the Dacians, some ogmf them look suitably eastern.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: aircav on March 31, 2022, 06:59:38 AM
This is great, Iíve been hoping for the resurrection of this thread. Canít wait to see where you go with it now.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on March 31, 2022, 07:05:35 AM
A pleasing resurrection.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on March 31, 2022, 06:12:35 PM
Sounds very promising! Maybe you can add some of the Victrix Viking Heads onto the Dacians, some ogmf them look suitably eastern.
This is a very good idea.

Now that I've had some time to reanalyze the PR's battle board, I realize that doesn't really support Levy that well (I wish Khagan worked on Levy), so I may field only one unit of Levy.  Consequently, this means that I will likely be adding another unit of Warriors.

My original plan was to represent one unit of Warriors as shieldmaidens and a second unit as Swedes, and the Slavs would be relegated to Levy only.  Now I think I'll create a unit of Warrior Slavs to represent the integration and intermarrying of the Swedes and Slavs.  To make the Slav Warriors I will use the Dacian bodies and a mix of Dacian and Viking heads and weapons. I may use greeenstuff to add some chainmail aventails and pointy helmets.  I want to do something special with their shields as well.  I may use a different design or perhaps just different motifs.

To further "integrate" my warband and strengthen its eastern European appearance, I think I'll use V&V's Pagan Rus and Pagan Rus 2 kits to serve as my Hearthguard.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4413/qIygQE.png)

If you haven't figured it out yet, building a warband (e.g., planning, developing themes/stories, acquiring just the right models, and converting models) is by far, my favorite aspect of the hobby.  I enjoy it more than painting or even playing the game. It's not the list building aspect I enjoy (this isn't 40K), but rather I'm referring to model selection and conversion.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: aircav on March 31, 2022, 06:26:01 PM
Donít forget Drabants Pagan Rus.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on March 31, 2022, 07:36:06 PM
Donít forget Drabants Pagan Rus.

I bought 4 or 5 boxes of Drabant Vikings back in 2017 or 2018.  They are beautiful miniatures, but compared to other Viking model lines they look kinda weedy, and their arms short and stubby.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/3199/KIE2oP.jpg)

Plus they have tiny little...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4776/Ch1XmO.png)

I think they were sculpted to be true scale 25mm. 


Where is "K'Boro"?

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: aircav on March 31, 2022, 09:52:56 PM


Plus they have tiny little...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4776/Ch1XmO.png)

I think they were sculpted to be true scale 25mm. 


Where is "K'Boro"?

That always cracks me up when the Kids watch TT Go

Knaresborough, North Yorkshire. U.K.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 01, 2022, 12:10:40 AM
That always cracks me up when the Kids watch TT Go

Knaresborough, North Yorkshire. U.K.

If you like Drabantís Vikings and have a use for them, then you can have mine. I feel bad for the poor little fellas, sitting on my shelf, in their boxes, unassembled and unused. They are fine miniatures. They deserve to be out there raiding and pillaging.

PM me your address and Iíll mail them to you. They are all in their original packing and boxes.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/5964/jN1OR9.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: syrinx0 on April 02, 2022, 01:15:10 AM
Excellent.  Another Koyote Saga build thread is live.  I hate converting but I do like seeing what others come up with.  :)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 02, 2022, 09:43:52 PM
To further "integrate" my warband and strengthen its eastern European appearance, I think I'll use V&V's Pagan Rus and Pagan Rus 2 kits to serve as my Hearthguard.

When compared to Victrix Vikings, the V&V Pagan Rus are a bit on the small side. They are a bit shorter, skinnier, and not as broad in the chest.  This came as a surprise to me because the V&V Vikings are a bit taller and beefier than the Victrix Vikings.  Puny Hearthguard simply won't due, so it's back to my original plan.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5017/DEHSuo.jpg)


Below is what I've assembled for my "Swede" Hearthguard.  To add more flavor to the unit, I will likely swap out another model or two with additional character models.  I will add shields when I paint the models.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6979/e6wUew.jpg)


Here's what I've assembled for my unit of Swede Warriors.  The lack of chainmail will identify this unit as Warriors  The big guy with the two axes is from V&V's Vikings 4 kit.  Once again, I'll add shields when I paint the models.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9281/5KoAos.jpg)


Here's my second unit of Swede Warriors.  It's composed of Brother Vinni's amazing shieldmaiden models.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3740/qCqGOw.jpg)


The model on the right will be my Warlord. It's a Brother Vinni Viking Warlord. The model is almost a head taller than the V&V Vikings, but since he's my Warlord, it seems fitting. 

The model on the left will be the model that I use as a Brute for the Book of Battles Old Feud scenario.  The model from V&V's Vikings 4 kit. I need to rearm him with a heavy weapon.

The model in the center is a V&V Scald mini.  It will be used as a Mystic, my fall back selection for the Old Feud scenario.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6023/PcpeBx.jpg)


Once my Victrix Dacians arrive, I will build my Slav javelin Levy and a third unit of Warriors (also Slavs).

I'm going to break from tradition, and mount my Pagan Rus won Autumn themed bases.  I will reserve the snow flocking for the mini-diorama counters that I'm designing for my Biting Cold, Blizzard, and Long Winter Saga abilities.

Speaking of mini-dioramas, I also need to rebase the Scandinavian and Slavic folklore themed baggage markers that I originally built in 2018 (see p.2 & p.3 of this thread).  They are currently on 60mm rounds.  If I put them on 40mm rounds I can use them as objective markers -which tend to see more use than baggage markers.

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/2545/1dTgwT.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/3154/14ZCY0.jpg)

(https://imageshack.com/a/img922/4698/7g28Jb.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/a/img923/3003/pauzfD.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on April 02, 2022, 10:07:32 PM
Nice builds as always. Those V&V vikings are really massive! My V&V models (Irish, Varangians, HYW) all look closer to the size of those pagan rus.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 03, 2022, 06:35:51 PM
Here's another size comparison photo.

From left to right: V&V Viking, Brother Vinni Axemaiden, V&V Pagan Rus, Victrix Viking, Brother Vinni Viking Warlord

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7498/x4fQzs.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: batu on April 03, 2022, 07:30:11 PM
Thanks for the comparison. Very informativ!
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 04, 2022, 12:10:07 AM
Hereís my first attempt to Pagan-Rusify a Victrix Viking. I added a pointy bit to the top of the helmet and fur trim. Iím not happy with the trim. It should be a bit thinner and shouldnít stick out quite so far.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3221/tDRIx4.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: syrinx0 on April 04, 2022, 01:31:53 AM
As part of a painted unit on the battlefield - he will look great. Having some variation in equipment isn't all bad. Certainly better than anything I would turnout.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on April 04, 2022, 10:30:49 AM
Looks excellent to me. Should look good next to the fur trimmed hats.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 09, 2022, 05:14:06 PM
Here's my first six Pagan Rus Levy with javelins.

Victrix Dacian bodies, heads, and arms, Footsore shields, and Gripping Beast wire spears. The spears are a few years old. Back when GBís supplier gave a sh!t about the quality of the wire spears and formed leaf shaped heads, rather than simply flattening one end and forming a crude, triangular tip.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/4818/5Gz7l1.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Knight-Captain Tyr on April 09, 2022, 06:00:39 PM
Great work as ever. Been a big inspiration to my own Pagan Rus force, so thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: .:Gunslinger:. on April 10, 2022, 11:01:58 AM
Fantastic work! Love how these different sets/bitz work togetjer, the Dacian bodies are a perfect choice!  :-*
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 11, 2022, 06:52:24 PM
@Knight-Captain Tyr:  Thanks.  I am a HUGE fan of your work in the Fantasy forum.  I look forward to see what direction you take your Pagan Rus.

@.:Gunslinger:.: Long days and pleasant nights, gunslinger.  The Viking and Dacian Victrix kits are similar in scale and compatible to a degree.  The problem that I've run into is that most of the arms on the Viking sprue are half arms, because the bodies include shoulders and upper arms, whereas most of the Dacian arms are full arms, because the bodies don't include shoulder or arms.  For the levy, this isn't an issue because I'm using all Dacian bodies and arms, but this has caused me to rethink how I am going to kitbash my Slavic warrior unit.

Viking (left) Dacian (right)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5070/gxVLA5.png)



Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 12, 2022, 04:01:48 PM
The Pagan Rus have three advanced abilities (The Long Winter, Biting Cold, and Blizzard) that remain in effect during one or more player's turn, and two of these abilities target specific units.  These abilities, particularly the ones that target specific units, warrant a token to remind the players of the targeted unit and the Saga abilities' effect.

A few years ago I purchased blue acrylic markers, custom ordered from LITKO, for the Blizzard and Biting Cold abilities. I want to upgrade these markers by building mini-diorama markers.  However, while each ability produces a different effect, thematically, all three abilities are seemingly caused by same thing, freezing temperatures and snow storms. When designing dioramas to portray the different effects this causes a problem.  How does one clearly visually distinguish between abilities that cause similar impediments due to inclement weather?

The simplest solution is print the Saga ability's name on each token.  Below are custom 40mm rounds I ordered from a 3D printer who sells on Etsy, as well as the 25mm LITKO markers mentioned above. On each 40mm I will build a mini-diorama using snow basing and either a fallen or hindered enemy warrior.  r

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/149/H7eun4.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7315/eOJm9p.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 13, 2022, 03:56:46 PM
Below is another WIP photo of the levy.  I still need to add melee weapons to their belts (small axes or knives). 

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6370/Z7mVvO.jpg)


Here's a WIP shot of my Slavic warriors.  Aside from fella in armor, the rest don't look particularly Slavic, so the plan is to distinguish them from my Swedish warriors by equipping them with rectangular or teardrop shaped shields.  Like my Slavic levy, most of them will wear white tunics, but they will have fancier trim and pants.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5247/IkZZsa.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: .:Gunslinger:. on April 14, 2022, 11:43:25 AM
Brilliant work on those levies, the fur hats really sell the deal about these being more slavic or 'eastern'.

I am really looking forward to seeing them painted ! Any ideas on colour scheme at this point ?

Love the fella in armour as well, are these Victrix bits? Especially the helmet?
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 14, 2022, 06:16:31 PM
Brilliant work on those levies, the fur hats really sell the deal about these being more slavic or 'eastern'.

I am really looking forward to seeing them painted ! Any ideas on colour scheme at this point ?

Love the fella in armour as well, are these Victrix bits? Especially the helmet?

Thanks.

The Slavic levy and warriors will be distinguished by their white/off-white tunics.   Slavic warrior's tunic trim and pants will be 'fancier' than those of their levy counterparts. Overall, the Swede and Slavic units will be painted in brighter colors and patterns than I would not normally use on western Vikings.  This will give the minis a more "eastern" look and show better in the dim lighting of the Adepticon tournament halls.  I see lots of striped pants in my future. ;)

As for the armored Slavic warrior, the body, arms, and cloak of are from the Victrix Dacian kit.  The head comes from Fireforge Miniatures' Medieval Russian Infantry kit.  I would have used more of these heads in my Pagan Rus warband, but the Russian Infantry heads are a bit small compared to the Victrix heads, and the detail of the casts isn't very sharp.  **Insert Ukrainian War joke here**

I will likely add fur trim to a number of the Slavic warrior helmets.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on April 14, 2022, 08:19:48 PM
Love the builds. I may need to steal all these ideas.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Mesh on April 14, 2022, 08:47:27 PM
Great to see this project get revived. I really like to see different takes on similar projects. I especially like the vignettes, they really add something to the whole table.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 15, 2022, 01:52:22 AM
Love the builds. I may need to steal all these ideas.
Thatís quite all right. I stole your idea to use the Boudica model from the Victrix chariot kit as a Viking shield maiden (see below).

In Saga, the Hearthguard represent the warband's elite warriors. Depending upon the warband and time period, the unit may be composed of veterans, household guard, nobles, the Warlord's kinsmen, etc. When thematically modeling a unit of Hearthguard, the faction's background can serve as guide whether the Hearthguard should be uniform in appearance, non-uniform, or something in between.

Like the Dark Age Vikings, the Dark Age Pagan Rus warband does not represent an army of uniformed, professional soldiers. Moreover, the Hearthguard isn't simply a unit of veterans, but rather it's a cohort of the Warlord's family members and hand-selected trusted retainers.  When I first assembled the models for my Hearthguard I built a unit of armored vikings and threw in a priest (Hothgothi?) for added flavor. Then as I thought about it more, I started swapping out models for more interesting characters, to better represent a motley band representing the Warlord's kinfolk, champions, and retainers.  The line-up hasn't been finalized yet, but this is where the unit stands today.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/673/egEmUM.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: syrinx0 on April 16, 2022, 01:25:55 AM
Looks like the family gatherings would be quite the affair from that group!  lol
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 16, 2022, 11:24:36 PM
I've made some progress on my  Biting Cold, The Long Winter, and Blizzard tokens.  I've selected and converted the subject matter each vignette.  I still need to decide on basing design and whether that will affect the final position of each model.  Since each ability is presumably caused by freezing temperatures, snow, and wind, each base will be covered in snow flock.

The Biting Cold ability targets a single enemy unit and prevents it from activating again during the turn. To illustrate this I selected a model that is sitting down and a bit sprawled out.  It's a Gripping Beast, Late Roman casualty model. I replaced the model's flat top, brimless hat with a more generic conical helm with a nasal guard.  The wooden statue is a Scibor Slavic God objective marker.

The Long Winter ability has a table wide effect that limits all charges and shooting attacks to 6"distance. Here, the design concept is meant to be more symbolic than literal. 

Morozko is a supernatural being from Slavic myth. Some sources describe him a winter demon, others a god of frost and ice, still others a winter wizard. He was wise, but with a wicked temperament and was capable of freezing entire armies with the snap of his fingers. Over time he became Ded Moroz, also known as Grandfather Frost, a character from folklore who would aid the humble and hard working and freeze the selfish and lazy.  Finally, Ded Moroz morphed into Slavic Father Christmas/Santa Claus like character. Since his days as Ded Moroz he has been generally depicted as a white bearded man, wearing a long, fur lined coat and wearing a fur lined cap

The Norse have their own winter deity of sorts, Ullr, who is the god or demi-god, associated with winter, snow, hunting, archery, skiing, and duels. Like Morozko he's a big bearded guy who dresses in fur.  Unlike Slavic Santa who carries around a magic staff, Ullr is often depicted as being armed with a bow. I donít believe that Ullr controlled the winter weather like Morozko, but instead Ullr's sphere of influence was winter travel and survival.

The model I chose for the The Long Winter token is Gripping Beast Pagan Rus Warbanner Bearer model. His long coat and Santa hat reminds me of Morozko/Ded Moroz and by adding a greenstuff beard, I strengthened the semblance. And then, by replacing his banner pole with bow, I transformed him into a Morozko(Slavic)/Ullr (Norse) mashup who is blowing a magical hunting horn to summon or announce the coming of the snow and icy winds of winter.

The Blizzard ability slows all units within 2" of the targeted friendly unit. To illustrate this I used models who appear to be struggling to move forward.  Here I used  Gripping Beast Viking casualty models. One is head down, using his spear to help him trod forward, into the wind. The other has tripped or simply fallen to his hands and knees.  Both are wishing they had dressed warmer for this battle.

Left to right: Biting Cold, The Long Winter, and Blizzard token.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5327/NhXKzr.jpg)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on April 20, 2022, 11:14:11 PM
I don't much like the look of the two models I assembled with fur trimmed, dome shaped caps. They remind me of Pachycephalosaurus.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6344/Tk4iLW.png)

To de-dino the models I sculpted a floppy top to each hat (see below).  Much-mo better.

My Slavic Levy canít go into battle without a melee weapon. The problem is, it's hard to find much information on the weapons of Dark Age Slavs prior to coming of their integration with the Swedes/Rus.  What I found describes Slavic tribes preferring guerrilla style tactics and a preference for short spears, bows, and axes.  Since axes are inexpensive to produce and my Swedes are going to hand out swordsman to mere Levy, I reasoned that my Levy should be armed with small axes.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6457/XfeWtW.jpg)

I sourced the axes from some old (circa 2011) Wargames Factory Persian sprues that I bought on sale many-many-moons ago.  I shortened the shaft a bit and removed the butt spike.  Then I glued them in place and sculpted simple axe handle holders.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6954/Cfhexq.png)


You may have noticed that many of my Levy and Warrior models have quite a bit of greenstuff on their shoulders and upper arms.  This isn't me going onboard on gap filling.  The greenstuff is being used to cover up the wedges (of greenstuff) that I use to reposition the models' arms.

Victrix and other manufactures don't always do a great job of positioning arms.  When this happens, or if I simply decide that I want a particular poses, I will use a little wedge of cured greenstuff dowels to reposition the arm (see below).  I make the dowels in various diameters from greenstuff leftover from each sculpting project.  The wedges are easier to use than wire (pinning) and result in a durable bond between he body and repositioned arm.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/8055/4jGjdo.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on April 21, 2022, 06:57:01 AM
Nice view of the method you use. I just got the dark age archer sprues, let me know if you want pics of the heads on there. I think some repeats and some new.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Knight-Captain Tyr on April 21, 2022, 07:55:05 AM
Great stuff mate. Replying to your comment on my Rus thread here as it seems more useful to you:

Quote
Looking good!

Where did you source these shields?

Nice work on your display board.  If you plan to travel via plane with that board, I recommend that you not permanently attach the trees to the display.  Instead, you should magnetize or temporarily pin them in place. That way you can bubble wrap a relatively flat board and pack it into your checked luggage, cushioned on a sides by clothing. Then bubble wrap each tree separately and put them in a separate hard case or box, which you can also pack into your checked luggage.  This is how I bring my display boards to Adepticon.

Of course, you NEVER want to check your minis.  Those, you carry on and guard with your life. ;)

The shields are from the Stronghold Terrain Crusader Hearthguard - as seen here: https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/stronghold-terrain/products/crusader-hearthguard-with-great-weapons-4

Latest additions are looking really good, very keen to see where you go next.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Atheling on April 23, 2022, 06:26:37 PM
Great to see you confidence with the putty and conversion work grow with every post- and not just on this thread :)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on May 02, 2022, 03:54:03 PM
Why use free and abundant rock fragments when you can sculpt your own?

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/621/NtnB5A.jpg)

PETR Disclaimer: No rocks were harmed in the making of this Pagan Rus warband.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on May 02, 2022, 04:15:16 PM
Makes total sense to me :D
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: folnjir on May 03, 2022, 01:18:58 AM
Why use free and abundant rock fragments when you can sculpt your own?

I like to make mine out of sprue offcuts.

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on May 05, 2022, 10:14:20 PM
I haven't spent much time on the hobby during the last week, but I have started adding not-rocks and other bits to bases. 

The resin branches/bushes are from a company called Epic Basing (www.epicbasing.com).  Even though the branches are made of resin and quite thin, they are remarkably resilient to breaking.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/7642/HdRm5J.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on May 09, 2022, 06:33:17 PM
I've added not-rocks and bones to the warband's bases. 

Last Friday my Gripping Beast rectangular Rus Shields arrived, so I sorted out who will have what shield.

The round resin shields are sold by Brother Vinni in packs.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6273/zqNkev.png)


Now it's time to texture the bases and get to painting.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3693/QG8Arl.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: TheABG on May 12, 2022, 10:40:59 PM
Where is the banner in the top left of the photo from? I thought it was V and V but can't see it on their site.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on May 13, 2022, 03:41:16 AM
Where is the banner in the top left of the photo from? I thought it was V and V but can't see it on their site.
This one?

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/2231/ATqGur.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: TheABG on May 13, 2022, 05:41:40 AM
This one
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on May 13, 2022, 02:13:27 PM
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/2051/oJ9VRL.jpg)

The Brother Vinni Viking minis are more like 32mm scale than 28mm historical scale, that latter of which tends to be on the small side for 28mm minis.  Brother Vinni's female Viking minis are a bit shorter than their male counterparts so they better match Victrix Vikings.

Compared to the Victrix Vikings, my Brother Vinni warlord is huge, but I'm okay with that, because, well, he's my warlord.  Compared to the Victrix model the male Viking standard bearer is also quite large, so to "cut him down to size," I cut his legs off just beneath his gambeson, removed a couple of millimeters of thigh, and reattached the legs with pins and glue.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/87/ywu7ra.png)
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Koyote on June 29, 2022, 06:51:12 PM
Looky, objective markers.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9794/HPRHzG.jpg)

Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: Ogrob on June 29, 2022, 06:55:20 PM
Very nice. Always enjoy seeing your creativity in various markers and objectives.
Title: Re: Koyote's SAGA Pagan Rus
Post by: .:Gunslinger:. on June 30, 2022, 06:54:22 AM
Love these objective markers, great storttelling with each of them!