Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Back of Beyond => Topic started by: Sir Rodney Ffing on June 19, 2018, 03:24:05 PM
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I have been prospecting off piste lately to try to find suitable figures to cover gaps in the Copplestone Back of Beyond range, but haven't been entirely happy with the results. I have seen (and from time to time bought) some nice figures, but nothing matches a Copplestone like another Copplestone, and many of the available options (nice though they are) just aren't right (e.g. Brigade Austrians as PoWs fighting for the Reds, and Empress Afghans to double as Basmachis).
I do not know what Mr Copplestone is up to at the moment, and as a creative type, he might well be focusing on something else and seeing BoB as a done deal. However, I have made contact with North Star (who produce the range, and own this site!) to ask if Mark could be encouraged to extend the range a bit, possibly as one of North Star's Nickstarters.
I have no idea if this has been tried before without success, or if Mark would be interested. However, I thought it was worth asking North Star.
So, what would BoB players like to see added to the range in an ideal world? On another thread, Von Stroheim has suggested mounted White officers, and I agree. I would also like White flag bearers (five Flag Dude standards bought before I noticed there is no one to carry them!), Basmachis and some Indian cavalry.
What do others want?
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Would love a command group of some sort for the tibetans, as well as some artillery... and ideally a pack of foot musketeers in different poses!
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I've passed your message onto Mr Copplestone. Let's see what he says.
It won't be the next stuff he does, he's planning that to be more Darkest Africa
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Thanks Nick, that is a start. More Darkest Africa would be good too!
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I like the idea of Indian cavalry.
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Mounted British Officers
More British Officers and NCOs on Foot
More Chinese Officers on foot and mounted
Turkish Assault Troops plus officers and NCOs
And... sorely missing for everyone's 25/28mm ranges, no matter who they are...
Gurkha Officers and NCOs (not British) in the wide hat *
Gurkha Lewis Guns *
Gurkha HMGs *
And maybe another pack of Gurkhas in different poses *
* Note that the one thing that I do not like about Copplestone Gurkhas, is their size. They really are too BIG. If they were done as true 25mm, that would work in very nicely to their actual size compared to other figures in his range. "And I'm unanimous in that!"
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White Russians
NCOs/Banners
Lewis gunners / LMGs
Royal family/retainers
Czech Legion
Officers
NCOs/banners
Lewis gunners/LMGs
Maxim gun+ crew
Turks
Mounted Officers
Cavalry
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* Note that the one thing that I do not like about Copplestone Gurkhas, is their size. They really are too BIG. If they were done as true 25mm, that would work in very nicely to their actual size compared to other figures in his range. "And I'm unanimous in that!"
I met a group of Gurkhas soldiers once , they were running as a team in the London Marathon. I have to say that they were about the same size as everyone else. I remember quite distinctly because I had expected them to be short. Maybe they had just sent their tallest lol
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I would like to see the RCW ranges extended to cover WW1. It is mostly about there but Russian mortars, gun limbers and chaps in helmets would good.
Also a range of opposing Austro-Hungarians would be great. Scarab do a nice later war range with them all in helmets but for a lot of the war they were in caps. Considering how much Austro-Hungary took part in the war only Brigade games do a decent range although they do a field gun but no crew for it. I realise this is a big ask. I am just another wargamer with my pet projects. I wonder about the commercial viability of adding to these ranges. Out of interest, how many figures do you need to sell before you have recovered your production costs?
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I know Copplestone typically only does single piece castings but what about a generic line with options for heads?
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Given his’output’ you’re as likely to see any of this as you are to win the Lottery. Still, no harm in hoping I suppose.
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Turkish Cavalry gets my vote.
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I am just another wargamer with my pet projects. I wonder about the commercial viability of adding to these ranges. Out of interest, how many figures do you need to sell before you have recovered your production costs?
We all are, but I posted this on the Back of Beyond board where we all share the same interest (although admittedly scale preferences differ). As for the economics, I have no idea, but I did suggest a Nickstarter approach (and I have never done that before), which would presumably cover design costs. I think we can leave that side of things to North Star, assuming Mr Copplestone is up for it.
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Given his’output’ you’re as likely to see any of this as you are to win the Lottery. Still, no harm in hoping I suppose.
Oh ye of little faith! And you have to be in it to win it :D
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Oh ye of little faith! And you have to be in it to win it :D
Nothing to do with faith, merely a factually based observation.
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Seems to me that he's been a lot busier in recent times than he has in a long while. Granted, it has generally been for North Star rather than his own range, but he does seem to be more active. So maybe there is a little cause for optimism.
Looking forward to the addition of the new Africa stuff we've been told of, even if it isn't quite what I would have asked for.
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Nothing to do with faith, merely a factually based observation.
Levity, old boy, simply levity :D
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Cinese, mongolian, russian civilians. Drivers, russian infantry variants.
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I understand Mr Copplestone may be busy, so if we are after particular models we should think about what gaps would need covering and how high demand would be for them. I'd be interested in a pack of Tibetan regulars for example, but I'm not sure whether they'd sell that well.
We're already a niche part of a niche hobby, so focus on what might be popular. To that end, off the top of my head I think the following might work well;
* Foot Basmachis
* Mounted Basmachis
* Basmachi command (inc. Enver Pasha/Emir of Bokhara, or they could be a separate pack like the Chinese Warlord/Mad Baron)
* Japanese infantry
* Japanese cavalry
* Japanese command
* Japanese HMG
* Austrian/German PoWs in Bolshevik service (tatty old uniforms with bits of newer stuff, etc.)
* Armenians (purely because of the recent talk/upcoming Dunsterforce book)
Of course others may disagree on what would be popular (White Russian officer cavalry, etc.) but I think it's a good place to start :)
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I forgot to add, but second...
Turkish Mounted Officers
Turkish Cavalry (with options of lance or rifle armed; can either put rifle in hand open hand instead of a lance, etc.)
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One of my all-time favorite sculptors! And I love the size, more like 1/48 than 25mm.
I'd request more Czech Legion and a proper line of Austo-Hungarians from WW1.
More Africa sounds cool, too.
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Mounted partisans
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Beau Geste and/or Pulp-era French Foreign Legion.
I like what Bob Murch is doing but I would like to see more! :-)
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Not being a sculptor or anything but most of the BoB range seems to consist of 1-2 positions sculpted as dollies and then the details being changed.
Surely that should also have an influence on the time it would take to pump these figures out.
I go back to my idea of a generic force.
Each force basically looks similar
Puttees/leg wrapping
Baggy trouser
Field jacket with or without epaulettes
generic rifle
some type of belts/bandoliers/rolls
Head options - to suit many nationalities
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Not being a sculptor or anything but most of the BoB range seems to consist of 1-2 positions sculpted as dollies and then the details being changed.
Surely that should also have an influence on the time it would take to pump these figures out.
I go back to my idea of a generic force.
Each force basically looks similar
Puttees/leg wrapping
Baggy trouser
Field jacket with or without epaulettes
generic rifle
some type of belts/bandoliers/rolls
Head options - to suit many nationalities
Good thinking.
Perhaps SMGs, MGs, pistols, sabers, map and compass, big knife, and, eventually, shorter carbines, would make sense.
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Would love a command group of some sort for the tibetans, as well as some artillery... and ideally a pack of foot musketeers in different poses!
Agree with this one. And perhaps some in uniform as well:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c2/Bundesarchiv_Bild_135-S-17-14-34%2C_Tibetexpedition%2C_Shigatse%2C_Truppenparade.jpg)
(http://tibet.prm.ox.ac.uk/photos/opt/400/BMR.86.1.62.4-O.jpg)
Would also like to see some monks (particularly dob-dobs) and Mongolians on foot
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Bundesarchiv_Bild_135-KB-09-048%2C_Tibetexpediton%2C_Polizeigener%C3%A4le.jpg)
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Poles - infantry and Cavalry. Battle of Warsaw here we come!
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How about a range of drivers to fit the yesteryear range?
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Not being a sculptor or anything but most of the BoB range seems to consist of 1-2 positions sculpted as dollies and then the details being changed.
Surely that should also have an influence on the time it would take to pump these figures out.
I go back to my idea of a generic force.
Each force basically looks similar
Puttees/leg wrapping
Baggy trouser
Field jacket with or without epaulettes
generic rifle
some type of belts/bandoliers/rolls
Head options - to suit many nationalities
I've been badgering nick to ask about Copplestone head sprues, male and female. I'd kill for some of those. I also expect they'd sell very well and that he could knock some out quite quickly as compared to a full sculpt. Among other things (such as just plain liking his sculpts), I really, REALLY appreciate Copplestone's extremely painter-friendly method of sculpting eyes and would love to be able to use that to advantage on a wider range of figures.
Failing that, I'd just like to see more women sculpts for any genre, though BoB would present some interesting possibilities: A female partisans pack? Bolshevik women's brigade foot soldiers to go with the Heroines set? A mixed-gender BoB civvies pack?
He does women very well and with as much personality as he puts into men, but so much less often!
It's all up to Mr. Copplestone apparently - whatever tickles his fancy - but one might hope something in there would catch his interest.
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Tbh whatever he makes I'm likely to buy, so purely the fact that Nick will discuss this with Mark is exciting news for me.
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Tbh whatever he makes I'm likely to buy, so purely the fact that Nick will discuss this with Mark is exciting news for me.
Good point Keith. Great just to see the great man working again, and contemplating additions to at least one of his ranges.
That said...
15mm Barbarica Pict command and characters please. If he’s taking orders :D
(Just saying... Sorry BoBers!)
Please form an orderly queue for the unrealisable fantasy purchases... lol
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Mark is making a set of female Specialist Soldiers for Frostgrave, to accompany the plastic Female Soldiers coming out later this year (not designed by him). That's part of Frostgrave, not Copplestone Castings. We've the Barbarian, Thief and Apothecary going into moulds this week.
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Ooooh, I’m excited. It was this swine that got me so involved in this madness, and I will buy whatever he produces. So many good ideas on here already, but here’s my thruppence....
1. Basmachis - mounted and foot
2. Tibetans - some great ideas here already
3. Uzbek and ’Transcaspian’ mounted and foot
4. Irregular Caucasus foot (tooled up with bullet belts and lamb wool hats)
5. Poles - an army I’d love to do
6. Czech legion cavalry
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As it seems to be going all-genre now, I have a simple request. Generic African tribesmen wearing knee-length cloth kilts/skirts and with no other adornment, as opposed to the almost ubiquitous Tarzan-style loincloths most figures have. That would be just so handy for conversions. So many of the East African peoples wore things like that and you either have to saw up otherwise completely unsuitable figures or get the greenstuff out to reproduce the look.
"Generic spear guy with a bath-towel around his waste" being available would save so much work for me in my conversions. :)
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"Generic spear guy with a bath-towel around his waste" being available would save so much work for me in my conversions. :)
lol lol lol
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Bokharans. Especially pistol armed police.
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Er, I meant waist. Not waste. Ewww...
lol
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I like the idea of a "generic" range of figures. Also, the suggestion of drivers for the Models of Yesteryear range is excellent! Turkish cavalry-YES! Some rifle armed/lewis armed arabs would also be great to compliment the Artizan range. Indian cavalry.... please, please, please.
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Also, the suggestion of drivers for the Models of Yesteryear range is excellent!
Not to mention, mobsters and cops hanging off the side of the vehicle, firing a Tommy-gun.
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Hmmmm - Basmachis would be nice, as would the Caucasians and Uzbeks (now if only Mark would do these while working on a small range of North African types for Tangiers 1680.....)
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Oh please oh please I hope this happens.
Basmachis, and Czech Legion in winter gear get my vote
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How about a gun and crew for the British range plus cavalry please.
Happy with the Russians as you can use some of the reds with lewis guns as white's, same with the Ensigns and mounted officers.
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Like someone said earlier
* Foot Basmachis
* Mounted Basmachis
* Basmachi command (inc. Enver Pasha/Emir of Bokhara, or they could be a separate pack like the Chinese Warlord/Mad Baron)
* Japanese infantry
* Japanese cavalry
* Japanese command
* Japanese HMG
* Austrian/German PoWs in Bolshevik service (tatty old uniforms with bits of newer stuff, etc.)
* Armenians (purely because of the recent talk/upcoming Dunsterforce book)
Anything that would fall into 1912 to 1929 would help. The time frame most of us seem to be concentrated in is in the late teens to the early 20s.
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Well, I need to put my oar in...…..
Basmachis, Japanese, and Indian troops would be very nice, but I would surely buy anything that the Great Man puts out (especially Chinese - One can never have enough Chinese - something that my wife is increasingly objecting to lol lol)
Lon
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South Persia rifles ..Persian Swedish gendarmes...Jangals...Persian Quajar troops.
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Some very good suggestions here chaps, and thanks very much for your ideas. Realistically, there is probably no chance of them all seeing the light of day, but hopefully Nick will be able to persuade Mr Copplestone that there is life in the range yet and we will get something new at least!
Basmachis (mounted and on foot) look to be the front runner at the moment, and I have to say that would be my top choice too if I had to pick one only. Indian cavalry, British artillery, Turkish cavalry, Poles and Japanese seem to be popular too. I think Johnno's idea of generic figures in loose trousers and tunics with separate heads is an excellent one, and possibly the best way of getting maximum bangs for bucks from a modest expansion of the range.
More interest shown can only help, so please keep the suggestions coming while we wait for an update from Nick.
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Persians, as already noted, and some more Tibetans. As we seem to also be mentioning other ranges then I'd also like some Western Sudanese, the Knights of the Savanah, for Darkest Africa, and the long awaited Romans for Barbarica :P
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More Inuit for the Polar Exploration range including earlier versions with Muskets. Throw in some British Explorers al la The Terror and we will be set!
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Poles aren't really necessary. Very few of the army at the Battle of Warsaw were wearing Polish uniforms. My Poles are Poznanians, so Germans without backpacks and not so many helmets (albeit 15mm).
Someone producing the square-brimmed caps by themselves would be quite helpful though, because they did like those.
When I wanted Peter Pig to make certain extras for me I offered to stump up and buy a whole pile of them. I think I bought 20 odd packs of standard bearers or something stupid like that.
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I would really like to see some Tibetans additions. Monk variants - armed and dangerous. Leader figures and perhaps some artillery. Mongol variants as well.
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Maybe a pack of Chinese personalities seeing as we already have 2 gun Cohen but he is lacking a Sun yat sen to guard, and a chiang kai shek could be useful for ww2 gaming. some KMT troops could be useful as well to battle the existing warlord troops.
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I sent a msg to Nick but seeing as we are just saying here, zanzibari command/egyptian troops, more men in fezzes in general!
Shanghai police would be another good choice.
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Please, no more people with pith helmets and knobbly knees! There's quite enough British and Empire models out there in lead land already. I think I'd say the same for Russians, too, (Cossack infantry in cherkeska might pass muster but even that can be found, at the excellent Siberia Miniatures) and I think Mark C has done enough Chinese.
For me, what was always so brilliant about the Back of Beyond range was its exoticness - Tibetans, Mongolians, Chahar Mongolians. I also think they're by and large the best models in the range. So please, he's only going to consider doing a few new troops if any, I suspect, so let it be the sort of chaps that nobody else will ever dream of making. Fighting Lamas, some more Ngoloks, regular Tibetan infantry, dismounted Mongolians. Perfect
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A little outside the topic.
For those in the uniforms of Polish army 1917-1921,I will suggest investing in the book "Żołnierz polski ubiór uzbrojenie 1832-1939". It is published by the Polish Defense and not for sale normally, but somehow it seems that people with connections are selling out on the Polish site Allegro at prices between 70 -100 zloty.
The text is relatively short, but the many plates are worth the money.
Normally the person selling is able to provide several copies of the book and so it is possible to save on postage, which is not cheap from Poland.
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Since I'm going to be in Poland soonish, where would I get a copy? I'm happy to get multiple copies.
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More Chinese, can't beat Copplestones's Chinese in my eyes so I'd love to expand my collection with more toys
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My idea of the BoB area extends to Manchuria and to the "ДВР" Far Eastern Republic (Eastern Siberia), so I'll support the idea of Japanese troops, in winter clothing (examples: Osprey MAA 305 picture on page 39).
We also need civilians; and idle soldiers in casual poses (not unit-builder-minded).
Peculiar characters, and other unusual characters (Buryat scouts etc) will always be a good idea.
And (although he died some years before WW1) a Dersu Uzala could be useful too. :)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Dersuuzala.jpg/220px-Dersuuzala.jpg)
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Please, no more people with pith helmets and knobbly knees! There's quite enough British and Empire models out there in lead land already. I think I'd say the same for Russians, too, (Cossack infantry in cherkeska might pass muster but even that can be found, at the excellent Siberia Miniatures) and I think Mark C has done enough Chinese.
For me, what was always so brilliant about the Back of Beyond range was its exoticness - Tibetans, Mongolians, Chahar Mongolians. I also think they're by and large the best models in the range. So please, he's only going to consider doing a few new troops if any, I suspect, so let it be the sort of chaps that nobody else will ever dream of making. Fighting Lamas, some more Ngoloks, regular Tibetan infantry, dismounted Mongolians. Perfect
This sums up my initial thoughts on what should be next in the BoB range, on a second option I fully agree with FramFramson aswell:
I've been badgering nick to ask about Copplestone head sprues, male and female. I'd kill for some of those. I also expect they'd sell very well and that he could knock some out quite quickly as compared to a full sculpt. Among other things (such as just plain liking his sculpts), I really, REALLY appreciate Copplestone's extremely painter-friendly method of sculpting eyes and would love to be able to use that to advantage on a wider range of figures.
Failing that, I'd just like to see more women sculpts for any genre, though BoB would present some interesting possibilities: A female partisans pack? Bolshevik women's brigade foot soldiers to go with the Heroines set? A mixed-gender BoB civvies pack?
He does women very well and with as much personality as he puts into men, but so much less often!
It's all up to Mr. Copplestone apparently - whatever tickles his fancy - but one might hope something in there would catch his interest.
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Hi Mark
Allegro is a Polish auction-site like e-bay, where you can find a large section with military literature, both old and new books.
Try looking here
https://allegro.pl/kategoria/militaria-literatura-3724?order=pd
if interested in contemporary photos, look here
https://allegro.pl/kategoria/polska-wp-do-1939-14592?order=pd
I do not know, where you is going in Poland, but of course best if you can find a seller in same city, even if local postage is not so bad.
I can give you the mail-address on him, I bought my copies from, but I do not know, where he lives. He certainly had connection to Polish military circles and such societies.
Or you can get my last address, which is in Warsaw and from whom I bought some military history books. He ran an antiquary and spoke and wrote good English. (he was nice to deal with, certainly not always the case with Poles)
First I would go on Allegro and other sites and find, which books you want to get hold of, after that make an arrangement with someone (f.ex. seller number 2) to collect all the books for an agreed sum.
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For me, what was always so brilliant about the Back of Beyond range was its exoticness - Tibetans, Mongolians, Chahar Mongolians. I also think they're by and large the best models in the range. So please, he's only going to consider doing a few new troops if any, I suspect, so let it be the sort of chaps that nobody else will ever dream of making. Fighting Lamas, some more Ngoloks, regular Tibetan infantry, dismounted Mongolians. Perfect
Yes! Characters! Historical personalities! Odd obscure troops! Stuff that makes use of all the possibilities of the wild and crazy world of BoB.
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It's fair to say there is a significant demand out there for more of Mark's most excellent sculpts.......
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I concur on both points. For a great painter, they must be a treat to paint and the results the likes of Steve Dean and Mark Hargreaves are able to achieve show just how good the sculpts are. Even for a hamfist like me, a credible and pleasing outcome is possible with patience.
Hopefully the interest and suggestions in this thread will convince Mr. Copplestone and Nick at North Star that there is life in the range yet and it is worth adding to it.
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The missing parts are:- white russians infantry and cavalry- cossacks infantry- more czech legion- more anarchist- finnish troops- american, french and british forces
I think I will find more...
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But what I'd REALLY like to ask Mark Copplestone is why he had to allow NorthStar to split up his cavalry quartets into packs of three. Of course it doesn't matter doing this if there are only nominal differences between each figure but in the case of Back of Beyond, there are often huge differences!
It's really cheeky (to put it mildly) as the only reason I can see for it is to force people to likely to have to buy extra packs just to get the figure they want. The old cardboard boxes that used to hold four mounted figures worked perfectly well (and were much better for the environment than those ridiculous plastic packs now).
Rant over.
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I don't see the need for that rant Nogbad. You're wrong. Just because you can only see one reason doesn't make it the right reason. I'll pass the rant onto Mr Copplestone.
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Such kind words, Sir Rodney. That reminds me that I must post images of Steve's bolo Cadets, Train Guard and ChON. All Copplestone figures with a few minor changes. I have been neglectful of LAF of late.
One can never have too many different chaps in Wolseley Foreign Service helmets. However, we needore additions to the Indian army.
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I'm sorry NickNorthStar if I sounded too finger-pointing. What was the reason? Still, it's frustrating - especially as it's clear Mark C intended for them to be sold as a foursome - which is why I mentioned it. If there was anything I would change about the range, putting it back to the old all-four-to-a-box horsemen system, that would be it.
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The missing parts are:- white russians infantry and cavalry- cossacks infantry- more czech legion- more anarchist- finnish troops- american, french and british forces
I think I will find more...
Presumably by "Cossacks infantry" you mean Kuban and Terek plastoons in Cherkeska.
I'm not sure a couple of hundred scraggy infantry, who mostly wore normal kit anyway (if you're too poor to afford a horse on the steppes, you're unlikely to have expensive clothes to fight in) is a very useful extension. Especially when other ranges cover them.
Glue shoulder boards on Red infantry, paint some of them with blue trousers, and voila! Cossack infantry.
Somewhat intrigued by "Finns" though. What do you think Finns wore?
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It was Mark's call. We were his trade distributor for a decade and he had always sold us 3 cavalry to a blister (the plastic blisters were originally from Copplestone Castings, we adopted them for our other ranges later). When we took over his mail order he advised we keep the three cavalry set up rather than run two different systems. We said 'okay'.
You can get the four figures if you want you know? We're quite flexible. If you are a collector and you want the 4 Tibetan Cavalrymen in the picture, we'll sort a special deal for you.
The black boxes disappeared years ago by the way. Copplestone dropped them in a cost cutting exercise.
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Addition:
1920-1930 Japanese :)
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That's kind of you. Will have a think on what I want next.
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Addition:
1920-1930 Japanese :)
Good idea!
For now, there are some excellent ones made by Bob Murch at Pulp Figures.
I would like to see Checka guys with pistols and that leather coat they were known for. :-)
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cossacks infantry
Perhaps rather: a few dismounted cossacks.
I like to have dismounted equivalents of some cavalry figures... when small groups of cavalry want to dismount in skirmish+RPG games. :)
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A good set of Tibetan Characters/Command or even some Tibetan Matchlockmen in different poses - firing , loading etc
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Mark got this period going by his original brilliance and energy. He could reinvigorate it single handedly by doing the same now....off to spin the prayer wheel even faster....
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Mark got this period going by his original brilliance and energy. He could reinvigorate it single handedly by doing the same now....off to spin the prayer wheel even faster....
Seriously. Almost no one would be gaming BoB if it weren't for Mark Copplestone.
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Quote from: Ignatieff on July 07, 2018, 07:24:36 AM
Mark got this period going by his original brilliance and energy. He could reinvigorate it single handedly by doing the same now....off to spin the prayer wheel even faster....
Seriously. Almost no one would be gaming BoB if it weren't for Mark Copplestone
Amen to that. I am a relatively new convert to the period, having taken the plunge only in 2016. However, I remember my interest first being piqued by photos of the figures in the wargames mags when the range first came out. Two thoughts then: 1) those figures are astonishingly good, and 2) I really must do this one day.
Back in the day most of my gaming was in 15mm or 20mm, and I didn't move up to 28mm until TFL's Dux Britanniarum was released. Age of Arthur was another of those "I will get around to it one day" periods for me, and having dipped my toe in the 28mm water, it was only a matter of time before I gave in on Back of Beyond. The chance came when I did a mega trade with my chum Silver Whistle, who offered to paint some figures for me as part payment on the swap. Now Pat is a dab hand with a brush as anyone familiar with his blog will know, and the opportunity to have him paint some (not enough Pa, not enough!) of Mr Copplestone's excellent sculpts was the tipping point.
Since then, I have continued to add to the collection, which now includes Reds, Whites, Chinese (warlord and bandits), Mongols and British. If I stopped to tot up just the bare metal cost to date, I would probably pass out, but I still want more! So come on Mark and Nick, your public needs you to add to the range!
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I've passed your message onto Mr Copplestone. Let's see what he says.
It won't be the next stuff he does, he's planning that to be more Darkest Africa
And a crimson planet? What of that? PABD!!!!
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Would love a command group of some sort for the tibetans, as well as some artillery... and ideally a pack of foot musketeers in different poses!
Hear! Hear! Regular Tibetan artillery as supplied by the British could include these, IIRC, crewed by figures wearing something like British (Indian?) tropical uniform with sun helmets:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BL_10-pounder_mountain_gun
A pack of fighting Tibetan monks on foot would be nice, too, as might some armoured Tibetan cavalry.
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Bolsheviks in greatcoats and budenokas would be an obvious addition. In reality it would just involve head swaps to existing figures but it would mean parts of the range would have their usefulness extended up to 1941. Given there are no decently sculpted Winter War Soviets out there in 28mm, it would doubtless be a good seller.
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Perhaps some of the Freikorps and their allies who faced off against the Bolsheviks in 1919 - 1920 ? Tsuba's are really only applicable to the fighting inside Germany itself in 1919 - 1919, and most WW 1 figures are too heavily equipped. Could just be some of the personalities and more Freikorps specific units (like Baltic Landwehr cavalry).
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Perhaps some of the Freikorps and their allies who faced off against the Bolsheviks in 1919 - 1920 ? Tsuba's are really only applicable to the fighting inside Germany itself in 1919 - 1919, and most WW 1 figures are too heavily equipped. Could just be some of the personalities and more Freikorps specific units (like Baltic Landwehr cavalry).
Oooh, so more figures like the existing German Mercenaries pack? That would be would be keen!
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"Oooh, so more figures like the existing German Mercenaries pack? That would be would be keen!"
Exactly ! That four figure pack was just enough to whet the appetite !
Some examples of what could be done. Below from the Osprey Freikorps book, figure on the left is a cavalryman of the Baltic Landwehr.
https://alchetron.com/cdn/baltische-landeswehr-ac954d0a-3cb9-4513-9e0b-96d650e1dab-resize-750.jpeg
German soldiers (Baltic Sea Division ?) in Helsinki during the Finnish Civil War (supporting the Whites against the Reds)
https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/328/611/large_000000.jpg (That's Marshal Mannerheim, in the white hat, in this picture)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Bf-KOrXECT4/Uw7O41xEVMI/AAAAAAAAES4/EjQAK8XcDEI/s1600/German+soldiers+Helsinski'.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dap_cLzXcAAfqa4.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Baltic_Sea_Division_in_Helsinki_1918.jpg
https://sananvapauteen.fi//drupal/sites/default/files/inline-images/inline_Helsingin_valtaus_12.4.1918_saksalaisia_sotilaita_taistelun_jalkeen_Helsingin_kaupunginmuseo_0.jpg
https://78.media.tumblr.com/3c65c84563e526bfa404be936a13488f/tumblr_p7dskxQdjI1w5arg8o1_500.jpg
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Hi Guys
Had a chat with Mr Copplestone and we're not going to like the news.
He just can't face artistically going back to Back of Beyond.
Firstly, he doesn't feel he makes figures in the same style anymore, due to age/ eyesight/ optimisers etc. He's going through the issues now making the new Darkest Africa figures.
Secondly, in his words: When I first started making the BoB range there was hardly any information available and I felt a bit like a research pioneer and I filled in gaps with guesswork. Now on the other hand there are so many books and expert websites that I'm now very aware of all the mistakes in accuracy and if I were to revisit it I know I'd really want to remake the whole thing.
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As disappointing as that is, I totally understand it. I have a bunch of Pulp Miniatures US Marines that I painted like 10 years ago, and since then I have gotten several new packs, but every time I start thinking about basing and painting them I pause because I realize my style is now different enough that I would need to repaint all of them to get them to look consistent.
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Hi Guys
Had a chat with Mr Copplestone and we're not going to like the news.
He just can't face artistically going back to Back of Beyond.
Firstly, he doesn't feel he makes figures in the same style anymore, due to age/ eyesight/ optimisers etc. He's going through the issues now making the new Darkest Africa figures.
Secondly, in his words: When I first started making the BoB range there was hardly any information available and I felt a bit like a research pioneer and I filled in gaps with guesswork. Now on the other hand there are so many books and expert websites that I'm now very aware of all the mistakes in accuracy and if I were to revisit it I know I'd really want to remake the whole thing.
Understandable. Any thoughts on peripherally-related subjects like more Pulp adventurers or other 20s-30's figures?
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That's a bummer. I LOVE that BoB series.
I like Darkest Africa, too, but perhaps a Darkest Amazon would be interesting to Mark.
This could also include the (horrible) slave periods, natives fighting slavers, explorers, slavers, etc.
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By the by Nick, was there any rumbling about Mark is interested in doing after he's done the current round of puttering around in Africa?
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Disappointing news indeed! My apologies to all for starting this thread and getting hopes up. It seems the naysayers were right :'(
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Disappointing but we understand his choices and we must thank him for this wonderful range.
Disappointing news indeed! My apologies to all for starting this thread and getting hopes up. It seems the naysayers were right :'(
Don't apologize, it's a very interesting and useful thread, it shows a wide interest for more BoB figures, and if other companies and sculptors decide to make some there are lots of ideas for them here – of course they would need to be compatible (in size, weapons...) with the Copplestone range.
BTW Bob Murch of Pulp Figures is resculpting some of his Chinese and sailors (which are very well compatible with Copplestone's) perhaps he could be persuaded to do some more after he finishes his new and excellent Mexican range. ::)
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By the by Nick, was there any rumbling about Mark is interested in doing after he's done the current round of puttering around in Africa?
Er, Nick, denizens of a crimson planet? P.A.B.D. I say!
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Saw these on a russian website more Whites but for the Northern theatre
http://savinkoffgg.blogspot.com/
If you go into the older posts you will see that STP have some Reds in winter clothing upcoming - I have some of the STP Whites they are slightly larger than the Copplestones but they are beautifully detailed in resin
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Nice minis on that Russian site.
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I'm just looking forward to getting the African figures, and not looking too far ahead lol
I was chatting about the figures he's making and what armies they'd cover in Death in the Dark Continent. These are the ones:
The Hausa-Fulani Emirates
Bornu
Bagirmi
Wadai and Darfur
but first they'll be a small range of Shilluk (who currently appear in the generic Villagers list, though I think they deserve better) and maybe a pack or two of Dinka warriors.
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I looked up each of these people and I am impressed!
This will be an excellent range.
Are there any publications that Mark is using as references? It would be fun to read up on these various peoples.
Also, do we know if they will be pre- or post-firearm era?
Or a mix, 1920s-1930s, like BoB?
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Mark said he's been researching these for a long time, and has uncovered some stuff that isn't common knowledge of these peoples.
It'll be 1870-1899. Knowing the conservative nature of that part of the world, I suspect dress style hasn't changed for a very long time, and I bet you could use them without any difficulty into the 20th Century, probably upto where AK47s become prolific!
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It'll be 1870-1899. Knowing the conservative nature of that part of the world, I suspect dress style hasn't changed for a very long time, and I bet you could use them without any difficulty into the 20th Century, probably upto where AK47s become prolific!
Yep. And even after, if you mix them with moderns or do a little converting.
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Mark said he's been researching these for a long time, and has uncovered some stuff that isn't common knowledge of these peoples.
It'll be 1870-1899. Knowing the conservative nature of that part of the world, I suspect dress style hasn't changed for a very long time, and I bet you could use them without any difficulty into the 20th Century, probably upto where AK47s become prolific!
We have friends, neighbors, colleagues and relatives from some of those regions. I'd be curious to know their thoughts on Mark's interpretation.
Here, these folks dress like anyone else, but with a bit more flare and color, which is pretty cool.
(I'm in Silicon Valley, by the way.)
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Interesting news!
Finally some African Knights! (were there not a pair of these on sale a few years back - where those by Copplestone?)
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No, those two knights weren't Copplestone. They belong to Kev Dallimore, but I'm not sure who made them for him.
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At last. The DitDC figures that I really want!! ;D Nothing against the Azande and Naval figures that I already have, but I've been wanting to get some decent Western Sudanese for over 11 years now. Lets hope they're not too far away.
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I don't get what you mean ErikB. I wasn't suggesting the people of that region dress like the 1870s now, but I suspect there wasn't much difference between dress in 1890 and 1920. My AK47 comment was to suggest that Copplestone's figures probably won't do post WW2.
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I don't get what you mean ErikB. I wasn't suggesting the people of that region dress like the 1870s now, but I suspect there wasn't much difference between dress in 1890 and 1920. My AK47 comment was to suggest that Copplestone's figures probably won't do post WW2.
Sorry. I meant that, since Mark is doing a bunch of research (presumably), I'll be interested in showing his minis to some of my colleagues/neighbors/etc. to see what they think.
I lived in the Alps long enough to figure out the different kinds of traditional and regional Tracht (e.g. Lederhosen), but all those African tribes look alike to me. It is always great fun to get to learn about the figures I collect. :-)
I don't wargame, I collect history, and that's part of what I love about Mark's minis.
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I get it. Yes, it'd be very interesting to find that out. I think folks take it as a real compliment when an 'outsider' shows an understanding and appreciation of their history and culture. Don't let us down Mark. lol
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Interesting news!
Finally some African Knights! (were there not a pair of these on sale a few years back - where those by Copplestone?)
Irregular Miniatures do a savannah knight and an armoured Abyssinian Galla horseman.
You'll find them in the Colonial section: http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/indexes/25mmindex.htm
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Irregular Miniatures do a savannah knight and an armoured Abyssinian Galla horseman.
You'll find them in the Colonial section: http://www.irregularminiatures.co.uk/indexes/25mmindex.htm
Yep, and there are more from Castaway arts:
https://secure.iig.com.au/castawayarts/index.php?cmd=store
I expect a Copplestone range to be far superior to these though ;)
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Yep, and there are more from Castaway arts:
https://secure.iig.com.au/castawayarts/index.php?cmd=store
I expect a Copplestone range to be far superior to these though ;)
Yes, I think they will be.
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Secondly, in his words: When I first started making the BoB range there was hardly any information available and I felt a bit like a research pioneer and I filled in gaps with guesswork.
I think the main problem with Mr. copplestone is, that he always wanted to discover new worlds and this is his power. So, I Hope for something new and can live with the fact, that this range won‘t be complete....
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As a number of us mentioned, we'll simply be happy with more 28mm Copplestone figures, period. He's free to be a butterfly - we just want more no matter what it is!
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I'd love to see Mark coordinate with Bob at Pulp Figures. They're similar in style, though not the same, and complement each other well. Two of my favorites.
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So would I, but after the disappointment of the failed attempt to enthuse Mr Copplestone, it seems he has no interest at all in returning to the range.
I admit I know very little about sculpting, but I wonder how hard it would be for another talented sculptor to produce compatible figures (at least in terms of scale and proportion) that would match the Copplestone range better than (say) Brigade (lovely figures, but too small in my view). If there was the will to do it, surely it wouldn't be like asking Rembrandt to paint in the style of Canaletto?
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Ooooh, I’m excited. It was this swine that got me so involved in this madness, and I will buy whatever he produces. So many good ideas on here already, but here’s my thruppence....
1. Basmachis - mounted and foot
2. Tibetans - some great ideas here already
3. Uzbek and ’Transcaspian’ mounted and foot
4. Irregular Caucasus foot (tooled up with bullet belts and lamb wool hats)
5. Poles - an army I’d love to do
6. Czech legion cavalry
Excellent list.
And I'd like to add:
8. Gurkha command
9. Gurkhas with drawn kukris
10. Japanese cavalry
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Hi Guys
Had a chat with Mr Copplestone and we're not going to like the news.
He just can't face artistically going back to Back of Beyond.
Firstly, he doesn't feel he makes figures in the same style anymore, due to age/ eyesight/ optimisers etc. He's going through the issues now making the new Darkest Africa figures.
Secondly, in his words: When I first started making the BoB range there was hardly any information available and I felt a bit like a research pioneer and I filled in gaps with guesswork. Now on the other hand there are so many books and expert websites that I'm now very aware of all the mistakes in accuracy and if I were to revisit it I know I'd really want to remake the whole thing.
Oh well... Pass on my personal thank-yous miniatures he *did* sculpt. :-)
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Chinese civilians please
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I hope to have some Chinese Civilians added to our range at the end of the year along with Cixi and her body guard, Genrals and court nobles.
But please be patient it all takes time to sculpt, mould and cast.
Keith@VM
victoriouminiatures.com
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victoriouminiatures.com
Is that a website address? Doesn't seem to work... :`
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Probably should be victoriousminiatures.com (http://victoriousminiatures.com)
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Excellent list.
And I'd like to add:
8. Gurkha command
9. Gurkhas with drawn kukris
10. Japanese cavalry
I concur......
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Disappointing news on Mark, but you have to respect his integrity and honesty. And be grateful for what he did...However I wonder if Pasha Hicks and the splendid 'Jazz Age' range from Empress could be persuaded to fill the gaps. There's defiantly a market and we have some fresh market research to point them in the right direction..... ??? ??? ???
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Hey, Mark! Don't you want to get rich? Give us customers what we want!
;)
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Talking with Paul from Empress over the weekend I gather some new additions have just gone to Griffon for casting (please don’t ask what as I don’t know - too busy talking ECW!) but I know they are still keen to grow this range. (I’d love more 1920’s NWF stuff!)
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However I wonder if Pasha Hicks
I've quite a lot of superb figures from Mr Hicks and Empress for another context (SCW) but then a problem arises — you can't mix them with Copplestone's and Bob Murch's it's really not the same size.
I'm very happy with both styles, and I love them all ...but definitely not on the same gaming table.
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I do. And they work fine. Hicks castings are a wee bit smaller, but not so much you’d notice.
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Empress has just started working through a list of new releases for our Jazz Age range planned for the next 12 months. The first of these will be in store in the next few weeks.
Starting with a complete mule train for our 3.75" mountain gun.
Also a communications set featuring a British team a mule and a very large radio set.
Then Brit cavalry, Indian infantry, English Infantry, senior command, Ghurkas, Indian engineers, and other things.
Just realised that I have hijacked another companies thread so delete if you wish. : )
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Empress has just started working through a list of new releases for our Jazz Age range planned for the next 12 months. The first of these will be in store in the next few weeks.
Starting with a complete mule train for our 3.75" mountain gun.
Also a communications set featuring a British team a mule and a very large radio set.
Then Brit cavalry, Indian infantry, English Infantry, senior command, Ghurkas, Indian engineers, and other things.
Just realised that I have hijacked another companies thread so delete if you wish. : )
I just got an erection which wont desist!
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these are very good news. I hope that some more stuff comes to WW1, from Mr. Hicks. I'm a big fan.
;)
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I just got an erection which wont desist!
well.... well..... they say passions run high in this hobby....
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these are very good news. I hope that some more stuff comes to WW1, from Mr. Hicks. I'm a big fan.
;)
Yes plans afoot. Empress now own the range so need to sit down and work out the way forward. Also we quite fancy WW1 Africa.
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I just got an erection which wont desist!
Not sure what to say about that lol
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Oh, I'm very excited. Askaris and white officers with tropical helmets and southwestern hats. Kings African Rifles and Belgian natives regiments. Apart from brigade games, there's nothing for the African theater of ww1.
In any case, no other manufacturer is known to me.
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Have you guys considered Studio Siberia? ppreciate that postage is high if you are outside Russia but the sculpts mix well with Copplestone and Leonid has also added a number of figures to his own range which you can direct to him, he has the figures listed on here on another thread and I have picked up quite a few. Just doing some Caucasian Cossacks and 1920 Poles right now. The range is more main stream Russian Civil War than back of beyond but very nice and a good match for Copplestone.
Great news about the potential for WW1 East Africa from Empress by the way.
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On another note with Poles for this period there are a couple of seperate head options. Woodbine Miniatures Turks are wearing a very basic uniform with webbing and rifles that would fit a number of countries so they make great Poles. You can add stehlen helms and paint them as ex German or Kingdom of Poland trrops, head an Adrian Helemt, the british soft caps are not too far away from the round polish caps and Studio Siberia as well as headless figures do a great range of seperate heads for the Poles, probably about 12 choices, so Poles become quite easy all of a suddon. Add to the head swap opportunities already discussed and your just lookign for Cavalry. (Turkish artillery with seperate heads and machine gunners fill the rest)
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Nice idea! Thanks!
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Just to give you an idea here are a couple of pictures I took today as a workbench update on my blog.
http://gapagnw.blogspot.com/2018/08/workbench-1920.html
The first are three of the Caucasian Cossacks which are a Studio Siberia miniatures and a bit of a gap in the Copplestone range.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1850/43484688015_37c65bb95c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/29fAoLg)IMG_20180831_173528 (https://flic.kr/p/29fAoLg) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
The Second are Poles illustrating the point mentioned earlier, the left figure being Studio Siberia with a Woodbine French head and the second a Woodbine Turk with a Studio Siberia Polish Cap.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1871/42583865370_767c3ff2be.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27SZrzm)IMG_20180831_173444 (https://flic.kr/p/27SZrzm) by Roger Castle (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152172226@N06/), on Flickr
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Very nice Roger :-*
Lon
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I like all the companies .Studio siberia minis and service is great,and Empress,Tsuba and Copplestone..and not to forget Old glory.All work well together .
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I would be very happy if Mr. Hicks would design Russians for WW1. I've seen Zar Nicholaus designed by Paul somewhere. I believe. The Tzuba Russians are already getting very close, but models with a peaked cap are still missing.
Would be nice. ;)
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Well since this topic is starting to look like a wishlist, i would like to propose the Greeks.
A complete expeditionary corps went to Ukraine between January - May 1919 to fight against the forces of the Russian Revolution.
Evzones with pom poms in their boots, khaki skirts, ( sorry the white ones were out of service in 1914-5 ) Ruby M1914 pistols, Mannlicher-Schönauer rifles, Chauchat, Schwarzlose, Hotchkiss M1914 machine guns, Schneider-Danglis 75mm 1906 artillery e.t.c.
Also extremely flexible project since everythink can be used for WW1, the Asia Minnor campaign even up to WW2 !
Unique and rare addition and mr. Copplestone can start from scratch ! ;)
There is hope ...
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Mark did a Back of Beyond range to represent, errr, the back of beyond. He didn't do a Russian Civil War range.
Requests for Poles, Greeks, Kuban Cossacks etc seem to miss the point. They belong to a separate theatres. All would much more sensibly considered WWI figures (though the Poles' light kit does cause problems).
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I would be very happy if Mr. Hicks would design Russians for WW1. I've seen Zar Nicholaus designed by Paul somewhere. I believe. The Tzuba Russians are already getting very close, but models with a peaked cap are still missing.
Would be nice. ;)
I was reliably informed on this forum that the Copplestone White Russians are okay for WW1 Russians.
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Coppelstone Russians are indeed okay, but I miss the poses variety. I confess, a luxury problem. ;)