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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: bong-67 on July 11, 2018, 10:16:44 AM
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I've been a member of several wargames clubs over the years. All of them allocate table space on a first come first serve basis and at one time or other all of them have become so busy I've sometimes been unable to get a game on because I usually can't get to the club until later than other members.
Are there any wargames clubs which operate a table booking system? Is such a thing possible or practical or am I just dreaming? I think first come first serve is fundamentally unfair where clubs have a large membership or are busy. and it's a real hassle to haul stuff to a club only to find you can't game with it.
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A club I used to go to when living in UK had a "reservation" approach to the 2 large table tennis tables which we owned but not to the smaller trestle style tables. So if you wanted to arrange a large multiplayer game you could in advance. It was a discussion amongst friends approach not a formal booking system.
Problem with bookings comes if you don't show up. Having an empty table that is not used when people want to game is poor. Maybe one of the other players in your game could aim to get there for the start and set up.
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None of us can get to our club any earlier than about an hour after the club starts so sometimes we still have problems getting a table.
I appreciate there could be problems with people booking space and not turning up but that could be solved by allowing any table not claimed after a certain period after the booking time to be used on a first come first serve basis. Just being able to know in advance how busy a club would be on any given night would be useful sometimes.
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Sounds like you need a bigger hall :) OR more tables and boards ..
we are very lucky that are hall is big enough for us to have a good 30+ members most meetings .We did have to invest in more 6x 4 boards which we have around 18 now ..
when you get into booking tables its a hassle people dont turn up ! then its who did you book the table with ect.... then some poor chap has to put up all the tables, then take them down IF they dont turn up as well
and if you get a new player coming along and you say Ah sorry mate these 3 tables are taken so no we dont have space for you its a bit off putting to the new chap..hes there ready to game got all his stuff with him and has to look at a empty table , how frustrating would that be to a wargamer !!or another member of the club.
first come first served is the best way.. i feel .
Just tell a mate to put a table up for you and you will sort him out with a beer :)
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Yes, we do have a booking system of sorts. There are 6 big tables at the clubhouse ( 4 x 1,8m meters) and one really big one at 5,2 x 1,8 meters) These are all join-able but that's another story. Every now and them a member will 'reserve' a specific table (or perhaps 2 joined) for a bigger game and then we put a 'reserved by...' placard on it. Reservation in person at an earlier club night or by email.
The 9 other tables are smaller ( and lower) but still big enough for a standard WH40k, Frostgrave, SAGA or Dux Brittaniarum game and are usually never reserved.
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My club has grown to the extent it now fills a really big hall and on a busy night all 33 tables can be in use. I get that there can be problems with booking systems but you can solve them with some thought. We have janitors who can set the tables up for us and they also put them away.
On busy nights we can usually get a table if someone can get there early enough to bag one but that doesn't always happen and the real problem is that my playing group get to the club about and hour later than everyone else.
I just think table booking is fairer. If you play sports in a local sports centre it's never first come first serve, you always book so you always know if you are playing or not.
For me, a better solution would be to game in a commercial games centre where they make money from table bookings but there aren't any of these near Glasgow. It also avoids the sort of wargames cliques and politics you get in clubs. Or better still, get a bigger house where i can have my own wargames room - that's the dream!
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The club I attend has a booking system - it's more about ensuring people have a game to play and so people can look to see if there is anyone free looking for a game. But it also doubles to ensure that there are enough tables to go around.
The first come first served thing is ok to a point. But if you know you are struggling for space and you and a buddy or two have been planning a game for this week since before the last club day and you turn up to find a couple of chaps who haven't planned ahead/been for a while have got there and taken the last table or whatever.
I understand that some folks may not turn up - but then if you have an online booking system you can also cancel pretty easy, or just message someone else that will be there to say you wont. Seems pretty simple to me.
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Surely If the club is struggling for tables and space on a regular basis then you need to start looking for a bigger place.
How is the club going to grow IF you stay in the same place , people will be turned off if they are late and cant get a table thats the last thing you want is members not turning up for a game and then play at home and then you have lost him /them ..
we started are club in the smallest room at are local hall now we have taken the largest room in the building now :D ...
we need to keep getting new blood into are hobby most of my members are 45+++ theres nothing better when a chap off the street pops in (FOR A LOOK AROUND) sees all the tables full of painted figures and then joins in on a game :).
IF YOU HAVE SPACE THEY WILL COME !
happy gaming LR
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You can do it that way or have club nights more frequently. I believe my local is every Tuesday and the first and third Thursday every month, and will consider more.
It also offers more flexibility to people like me who work shifts and can't make the same day every week.
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We book tables, though it’s done on quite an informal basis via our Facebook page. Ideally we always have a spare table to cope with late decisions, but booking is the best way to make sure people get a game.
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33 active tables is pretty impressive. If your experience is common it would seem you need a new larger space. Maybe you could ask a moderator for the group to save you a table?
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I think my club could be the largest in Scotland. It has over a hundred members(although luckily they don't all turn up at the same time). We occupy a fairly large hall, about the biggest council hall available so moving to bigger premises isn't an option. The hall is also fairly well used so i don't think we could game on an additional night.
It's actually good that the club is large and successful. This makes it rich so it can provide lots of terrain goodies which I haven't seen in other clubs (assuming you can get a table to play them on though). It's also, on the whole, very well run.
The problem with any successful venture is that eventually it becomes a victim of its own success. No matter what size your club or premises is, if you want it to do well and are successful, eventually this will strain your resources and this could lead to a crash in membership. Now that it is so busy I find myself less keen to go as I don't want to go to the bother of bringing loads of figures and scenery for a game if I can't get it on. I always bring my own key scenery as I don't know in advance what club stuff will be in use on any given night.
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Sounds like it needs more structure then.
One of the things is to consider use of space as well. Are people using a 4x4 space when all they need is enough space for a game of shadespire for example.
I would say that booking is the way forwards and then see how that works. Or perhaps say, book 75% of the capacity and leave the rest for ad-hoc on the night. That way you have a bit of both. Then see what the response is. Limit it to booking two weeks in advance as well, you don't want people block booking weeks and weeks into the future just to ensure they have blocked a table.
See how that works out and then go from there. If people abuse it, book a table then don't turn up - if they haven't canceled before the event, and haven't contacted the club to give a good reason (bereavement, serious illness etc) maybe put in a consequence that they can't book again for the next two weeks. That sort of thing.
I know it makes it all very formal but it seems a shame that they could be losing regulars, who are the life blood of clubs membership, are being put off due to the first come first served basis.
Again, the local club I go to gets people to pay in advance as well. I think it's something like £12 a month full time (up to 6 nights), £6 (up to three nights) part time.
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I play at a club in Amsterdam, we do have a booking system. Currently we seldom have any problems with space (once in fact, solved by reordering) but yes, formally there is a system that a paying member who has reserved a table has priority.
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From what I've experienced, I've been to one club which had a booking system and many which didn't.
The issue which I had with the one that did was that you couldn't just turn up and play a game. Which meant that if you didn't know anyone, you were kind of stuffed. Rather you'd have to show up on an earlier night, get chatty ...then shuffle off after a while as you didn't have any stuff to play with any people want to get on with their games. Where people usually planned out what was happening the next week at the end of the night with their opponents, rather than broadcasting that they were looking for a game on an open forum. People knew each other, and it was difficult to enter the clique. That's besides players then developing monthly games schedules, where "sure I can play you. It'll just have to be in two months when mu schedule's free".
Every other club which I've been to operates on a first come first served basis. That then allows for easier drop in sessions, even with games that are already planned out - as generally gamers aren't planning weeks in advance (and so also there doesn't tend to be as many "grand events" where players aren't inflexible about messing with some game they've been looking forward to and planning meticulously for weeks, and no, don't have space for one more...). In which case that seems far more open to new members or those who aren't able to keep to such a stringent schedule.
Personally, I'm not really one for a lot of governance in how clubs are run. A public schedule which you have to sign up to seems a bit too hands on from what I'm into. Rather I show up to a club, pay my dues and don't make a mess, is about the extent of my involvement each night. A schedule unfortunately also precludes all the planning I mentioned for many wargamers. How many are on Facebook and arrange what's happening there? Instead I feel that most would arrange stuff on the weekly night, instead of doing it throughout the week - which would be more flexible. My club has a Facebook group and a website, but the guys I speak to don't use either and only check their emails every couple of days.
Of course, its been a while since we've had to deal with space problems. Its only every few weeks that we run out of tables, and even then its rare that people are turned away (we just prod the guys taking up more space than they should be, etc). This is coming from what I believe to be the largest wargaming club in the country (at least that's what the committee members say at the AGM...), where we've had over a hundred members show up on some nights (most nights its more in the 30s to 60s).
So whilst having some sort of schedule to sign up to may help with moderating things, I'm not sure if its really necessary. Perhaps in an environment which fully accepts it. Otherwise if you were to introduce one to a club which previously had no rota, and didn't frequently deal with space issues, it'd probably be seen as draconian. For those that don't have the space then as has been said in other posts, that may turn away members. Though the issue of finding more space is probably even larger (perhaps finding a way to fit more tables in would help - for instance two of our tables could fit three boards, but most games only use two. So if you put four tables together you could have three two board games instead of two games across four tables). Solutions are probably far too much effort than anyone's willing to bother with or implement (I know that I've stopped suggesting improvements at our AGMs as the committee expects you alone to do all the work).
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It's interesting to read Wyrmalla's comments as he is one of my fellow members in the club I'm talking about and I'd say his point of view represents that of most of the club's membership which I why I think there is no point in raising the issue of a booking system with the club committee. Most of our members subscribe to the "happy anarchy school" so they'd never accept it.
I don't subscribe to the "booking tables prevents drop-in gaming" as nearly everyone I know plans and prepares games a week or more in advance. For many people it takes time to get the stuff for a game together, out of storage and ready to bring to the club so I don't see how many games can really be "done on the night".
Perhaps the best idea is for a mix of bookable and free space and some people on this thread have already said they know of clubs who do this. If I were running a new club that's the system I'd use. I don't think a lot of people like the idea of rules or organisation impinging on your leisure activity but sometimes it's the only way to ensure fairness and that's the way that professional leisure facilities operate.
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Ah, I wasn't aware that you attend G3 ...but knowing people's real name and user names here is difficult (I see pictures of Nick McLean in one of your pictures. George?).
The issue in particular at that club is perhaps the general apathy of the members towards change, and the committee's slovenliness in its implementation (where change occurs its usually in spite of them).
In any given night I arrive usually between 5:50 and 6:20. In that period there's usually a few tables going spare on most nights. On the busiest ones, or later on in the evening then it becomes more competitive. Which then leads to the situations where you have to go up to guys and ask them politely to stop using an extra table just to stow their junk on (not looking at some guys in particular...).
With this particular club in all the years that I've been going to it I'd only seen one night where people had to leave due to inadequate space. On that day guys were putting boards across chairs and sticking ones together to make more space. However, that instance was a result of the local Games Workshop doing something stupid and us taking on a few dozen new members for that short time till things sorted themselves out.
On any other night though, I've not really seen any table issues. At least with those gamers who are willing to make their own space (as opposed to ones who turn up, don't see an immediately free table, then leave ...which I have seen happen before).
I've raised the issue of tables with the committee there multiple times over the years. The resolution however is either, 1) that membership isn't a constant, so on most nights the current allotment is fine, or 2) new tables are too expensive to buy (which considering how much we apparently have in the bank, and how much has been spent on new terrain that only a handful of players use, is awry ...especially if there happens to be tables going cheap say from a closing school).
So if there is an issue with either space or tables, its more one down to organisation of the play space (guys taking up areas which could fit four sets of tables, or using more tables than they need to), or a lack of communication ("Hey, can we push these tables together and fit my game in?"). I don't see G3 ever having a scheduling system, due to the cocktail of anarchism and apathy most of the members have. For guys coming off work and just wanting to play with toy soldiers, that's just another level of bureaucracy they don't want to deal with (there's enough mutterings in the background about the implementing of club and council policy in the running of the club as it is. ...You still hear grumblings about the "no flags on council property" incident). :)
Edit:
Oh and if this is George, and you're referring to a case that I heard about a few weeks ago regarding table space. That would fit into the circumstances of poor management. Where people feel entitled to space, and are affronted when they find out that their claim to it is superseded by people who actually want to play games.
There's the expectation that on most nights we'll be either a deal below, or just under capacity, so cases where people are vying for tables shouldn't be an issue (a bit like the British power grid. If it fails then there's no contingency plan, so let's just cross our fingers that it doesn't and don't think about it). Where any night that we are over capacity we'll either be only just, so people can come up with inventive solutions, or the fallout will be kept to a minimum as the next week it'll be back to normal. Again refer back to the laissez-faire management style that's in place (and the stubbornness that people have towards any sort of change, but ease in which they can fall into complaining about things).
(And I type way too much. Need an editor)
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Hi Wyrmalla
Yes it's me! You've sprung my secret identity! I get your points but when I started this thread I wanted to see if booking table space in clubs was possible, if anyone was in club with one or if the whole idea was just a fantasy.
Before I joined the G3 I was in another Glasgow club which was always very tight for table space and where I struggled to get a table most weeks. I got so fed up with the situation and the way that the club management delt with it (or rather the way they ignored it) that it was one of the reasons I left. So for me the issue of fair table space has been a long-running problem.
Regardless of whether you have a formal booking system or not there should always be a contigemcy of some sort to avoid turning people away if possible.
The anarchy and apathy thing also bothers me though. It's something I've seen in all four wargames clubs I've been involved with and it gets a bit wearing after a while. I really wish Glasgow had a commercial gaming centre like Common Ground Games in Stirling where I could occasionally book table space and just get on with gaming with no need to worry about club politics or policy.
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I asked for a door step to be placed on the doors leading into the club space (there's already one on the set of doors leading up to that set). The response from the committee was derision and as I walked away a (spoken allowed, not under breath), "well nobody else seems to care". I made my point that opening those doors every week whilst your arms are full can be a pain in the arse. They'd said that it'd be difficult to arrange a door step, and would be impossible as the club would have to pay for them.
So I went to the staff that actually run the site, and they had no problem with it. They laughed when I mentioned the club having to pay for them, and didn't care about any fire policy. A week later they were there. A week after that the door steps were gone. I believe someone at the club complained.
Which is to say that you're fighting against that nature whenever you want any change there. If a lack of tables are the issue, as yes we could probably fit more in there, then the solution would be buy more tables. Of course, then the question is rather, why should I as a regular member being organising this and not the committee, which may be a larger problem. So the issue at heart may not be all these myriad of faults that are discussed, instead its a load of small problems that could be fixed, but bureaucracy and apathy exacerbate things till we have spates of dissent, though no real change in the long term.
If this is a major issue I'd suggest raising it as a topic of discussion on the Facebook site. Then, in order for it to be actually addressed, raise it for the club as a whole to have a stance on during a club right. Rather than solely with the committee, unless you want the usual shrug and derision.