Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: cheetor on May 19, 2009, 02:52:49 PM
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Can anyone reading tell me how the Bronze Age not-John Cater and Dejah Thoris (http://www.bronzeagemin.com/miniatures_html/25MM/SCI-FI/Red%20Men/Dead-Earth-Hero-Imperial-princess-set2.htm) compare with (for example) Copplestone or Foundry or Hasslefree or Heroclix or GW or [insert other manufacturer name here] figures?
The BA site lists the figures as 32mm. Although I try not to be too fussy about scale compatibility, 32mm does seem to be at about the upper limit for my mainly heroic 28mm collection.
Also, has anyone compared the not-Genetic Infantrymen that BA produce here (http://www.bronzeagemin.com/miniatures_html/25MM/SCI-FI/Mercs/28mm-Sci-Fi%20Adv-7.htm) and here (http://www.bronzeagemin.com/miniatures_html/25MM/SCI-FI/Mercs/28mm-Sci-Fi%20Adv-3.htm) with the rather generously proportioned Foundry Rogue Trooper (http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=https://www.malefic.jp/fou/p/ad29.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.malefic.jp/list/FOU2000AD&usg=___7QGCHWt9znP8Ar0HynNbfpHpE8=&h=250&w=380&sz=16&hl=en&start=10&um=1&tbnid=Hdd3Hxz040iUdM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfoundry%2Brogue%2Btrooper%26hl%3Den%26rls%3DGGLJ,GGLJ:2006-45,GGLJ:en%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1)? If they are compatable I forsee a pain in my wallet sooner rather than later...
Thanks in advance for any help.
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The not-John Carter and Not Dejah should match up okay with the other manufacturers. The reason would not be so much their height, but their lack of bulk. By being humanly-proportioned, the figures do not look significantly bigger than other companies' figures that also use realistic proportions.
If you stand them side by side and at eye level you might say they are too big, but on the table, they look good together. I'll try and get pictures of mine up if no one else gets there before me.
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I'm actually a little surprised that Bronze Age chose to call their miniatures 32mm. Of the figures I have, I'll grant that some are close to that, but others are a very sensible 28-29mm.
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The Bronze Age stuff is certainly big and chunky, but a significant portion of their height is also the huge thick bases that they're cast on. I have removed the bases from all my BA "not-Barsoomian" figures to give them a more standard appearance.
I'm actually contemplating making a BA entry in this season's LPL (if I can settle on a satisfactory red Martian skin tone...). If I do, I'll take a comparison shot of a BA Dead Earth Imperial (Martian) next to a Copplestone figure mounted on a similar base so you can see the size comparison.
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Thanks for all of your help guys, that is exactly the information that I wanted :D
I'll try and get pictures of mine up if no one else gets there before me.
That would be really great, thanks.
Any takers on the Rogue Trooper comparisons?
if I can settle on a satisfactory red Martian skin tone...
You and me both. I have tried a few approaches but nothing that I have tried so far has been both decent and reasonably quick to apply.
I am very interested in what you come up with. If you do get a Red Martian skin tone that works I would love to have a step by step list of the stages that you use for it.
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if I can settle on a satisfactory red Martian skin tone...
You and me both. I have tried a few approaches but nothing that I have tried so far has been both decent and reasonably quick to apply.
I am very interested in what you come up with. If you do get a Red Martian skin tone that works I would love to have a step by step list of the stages that you use for it.
Will do. ;)
I was pretty impressed with the flesh effect that Agis created for his Dejah Thoris (as seen here):
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=1762.0
but he has said that it was very labor-intensive to produce. They other thing that's stymieing me a little bit at the moment is coming up with a suitable red desert base that doesn't get boring and that doesn't resonate oddly with the skin tone.
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I just took these quick photos for a quick comparison
1st Heresy inspector, Black Scorpion Cowgirl, BA Rogue trooper, Hasslefree Debra, Reaper Townsfolk
(http://i41.tinypic.com/jr7lkx.jpg)
2nd Void, Privateer Press pirate BA Rogue Trooper, West wind Zombie hunter, Copplestone, and Super figure civilian
(http://i39.tinypic.com/oa19vn.jpg)
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I just took these quick photos for a quick comparison
bandit86, you rule.
Thanks for taking the time to set that up and snap it, it shows me exactly what I need.
That female GI figure looks even better than I thought that it would. I forsee a financially crippling order from Bronze Age in the medium term.
Thanks for all of your help guys :D
I was pretty impressed with the flesh effect that Agis created for his Dejah Thoris (as seen here):
Loath as I am to criticise Agis in any miniature painting regard, I do find that skin tone not really what I expect from a Barsoomian Red Martian. The colour is fantastically executed, no question. Its just that that particular colour does not really suit what I see to be Red Martian skin. YMMV.
The neatly organised and simplistic arrangement of the various factions of Barsoom suggest to me a slightly more "four colour" world. When I read the books I tend to see the red men as being quite red, rather than say as "red" as a native American. Similarly, I see the Green men as being quite a greenish green rather than a more recognisable flesh tone with a green hue (like a Christmas cactus plant or similar). Basically I see the Martian skin tones as having less of what we Earthers would regard as skin tones. Less brown/tan/khaki essentially.
That said, I really havent been able to come up with a satisfactory solution myself, so what do I know :)
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I just took these quick photos for a quick comparison
bandit86, you rule.
Thanks for taking the time to set that up and snap it, it shows me exactly what I need.
That female GI figure looks even better than I thought that it would. I forsee a financially crippling order from Bronze Age in the medium term.
Thanks for all of your help guys :D
I was pretty impressed with the flesh effect that Agis created for his Dejah Thoris (as seen here):
Loath as I am to criticise Agis in any miniature painting regard, I do find that skin tone not really what I expect from a Barsoomian Red Martian. The colour is fantastically executed, no question. Its just that that particular colour does not really suit what I see to be Red Martian skin. YMMV.
The neatly organised and simplistic arrangement of the various factions of Barsoom suggest to me a slightly more "four colour" world. When I read the books I tend to see the red men as being quite red, rather than say as "red" as a native American. Similarly, I see the Green men as being quite a greenish green rather than a more recognisable flesh tone with a green hue (like a Christmas cactus plant or similar). Basically I see the Martian skin tones as having less of what we Earthers would regard as skin tones. Less brown/tan/khaki essentially.
That said, I really havent been able to come up with a satisfactory solution myself, so what do I know :)
We're on the same page, Cheetor. I too see the Barsoomian Martians as being more of an otherworldly red-red, than a Native American "red". I've got some horses to crank out for LPL Round 5 first, but you should be able to see my take on a Red Martian in a couple of weeks.
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Red enough for you, Cheetor or not so much...? ;)
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=11487.0
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Red enough for you, Cheetor or not so much...? ;)
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=11487.0
Pretty much exactly the red that I was looking for to be honest, nice work :-* That not-John Carter figure is great, the face looks just like how I imagine him to look.
If you get a chance I would love a blow by blow of the red flesh tone process, including paints used.
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Told you we were on the same page ;)
My recipe for red Martian skin tone is pretty straightforward:
Over a black undercoat, I used Foundry Conker Brown Shade 54A as my basecoat. Then I used a 50/50 mix of Conker Brown Shade 54A and Foundry Madder Red Shade 60A for the next layer, following that I used straight Madder Red 60A, and following that I used Foundry Madder Red Mid-tone 60B for the final highlight. Note that Madder Red 60A & 60B are very close in value, so there was no need to mix an intermediate tone.
The figures do look a bit browner in person/to the naked eye, as I was allowing a little bit for the yellowish cast of the light I use to make them look redder, but if you wanted them redder off the bat you could also use the Foundry Madder Red Highlight 60C, which is less brown and more red.
A few lessons I learned doing them:
I normally use white for the whites of my eyes, as the area is so small they look fine against a standard "caucasian" skin. Against my red Martians, the whites look a bit stark and a bone white or cream color might have been a better choice for the whites of their eyes.
Due to the nature of the pigment used to make the paint, I found the Conker Brown shade a bit hard to work with - it went on very gummy. The Conker Brown & Madder Red match very well, but the Conker Brown base did seem to absorb highlights. I got the level of contrast that I wanted when the paints went on wet, but the next morning they looked flatter to me. I actually ran out of time and patience on these, but another layer of highlights might have yielded sharper detail on faces, fingers, etc.
The not-John Carter figure looks fine in profile, but straight-on his face isn't quite as handsome as one might like for such a famous hero (he's lipless, and big-nosed with huge ears). Upon mature reflection, I think the other Bronze Age not-John Carter figure is better (the one cast as a single piece without the separate sword that comes as a set with not-Dejah Thoris). I picked the one I used over that one as that one has his radium pistol in his right hand and his sword in his left and I figured that the supremely honorable John Carter would always choose his sword first over his pistol. I was debating painting one of them up as Carthoris and attempting a half-human/half-Martian skin tone, but I think I'll try another take on John Carter instead.
I was very pleased with how Dejah Thoris came out, but when I finished I rather began to wish that I had left her dagger out of her hand (IIRC Dejah Thoris never wields a weapon of any kind in the books, despite being in almost constant danger...!).
When this week's round is over I'll post you a scale comparison shot with one of these next to a Copplestone figure on the same kind of display base so you can see how they match up.
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My recipe for red Martian skin tone is pretty straightforward....
Your Red Martian skin tone is very impressive and I will have to adopt your technique. I have some old SciFi minis from Denizen, which are really too small to be used as Human adults alongside today's 28mm figures. Using this skin colour will make them perfect as Aliens and allow me to make full use of them. ;D
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My recipe for red Martian skin tone is pretty straightforward:...
Thank you for the comprehensive answer, just what I was looking for :)
Upon mature reflection, I think the other Bronze Age not-John Carter figure is better
Although I have never seen that miniature in the flesh I do like the look of it. That is the JC that I plan to pick up in a few months.
I was debating painting one of them up as Carthoris and attempting a half-human/half-Martian skin tone, but I think I'll try another take on John Carter instead.
Half martian tones run a real risk of looking like sunburn I reckon. Again, I wil be interested to see what you come up with.
When this week's round is over I'll post you a scale comparison shot with one of these next to a Copplestone figure on the same kind of display base so you can see how they match up.
Cool, thanks. Looking forward to it 8)
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Now that my Martians can finally rest from their labors in the LPL, here is a scale comparison photo showing a Bronze Age Dead Earth Imperial (Martian) against a Copplestone Castings figure and a couple of others:
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/Heldrak/Forum%20Saves/IMG_0002-28.jpg)
Left to Right:
WSD (Wargames Supply Dump) Dick Garrison line
Bronze Age
Copplestone Castings
Artizan Miniatures
As you can see, while the proportions on the BA figure differ a bit from other figures (they're rather lean and lanky) they do not look out of scale in comparison with other "heroic" 28mm miniatures.
A few things to note, though (particularly as you were interested in the comparison of Bronze Age with Copplestone):
The BA Dead Earth Imperial in the photograph has been painfully removed from his huge chunky integral base, but a certain amount of that base was left underneath his feet so that he stands on top of the red sands of his display base, rather than sinking down into them. Likewise, the Copplestone Detective figure has been clipped from his slottabase and then pinned to an inset plate that has been textured to look like pavement. This puts both figures on almost exactly the same plane.
While the WSD figure and the Bronze Age figure are a reasonable height match, the BA figure would probably work even better alongside the similar line of Bob Olley figures from Killer B (as they are a bit larger and chunkier than the WSD Dick Garrison line, although they are very similar in style).
As the Artizan figure shows, BA figures may look a bit out-of-scale against smaller lines of 28mm figures (Pulp Figures, Artizan, Foundry, etc.) but not absurdly so.
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Blast you, Heldrak. Now I have even less reason to avoid ordering them to go alongside my Free Norway army.
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Blast you, Heldrak. Now I have even less reason to avoid ordering them to go alongside my Free Norway army.
I dunno, Sine'... If you're using Foundry historicals or similar, your Bronze Age figures may look weirdly tall alongside them on the tabletop (perhaps not a problem if they're meant to represent an alien race from a lower-gravity world, but still...).
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Blast you, Heldrak. Now I have even less reason to avoid ordering them to go alongside my Free Norway army.
I dunno, Sine'... If you're using Foundry historicals or similar, your Bronze Age figures may look weirdly tall alongside them on the tabletop (perhaps not a problem if they're meant to represent an alien race from a lower-gravity world, but still...).
No, they are 28mmBelgians from Brigade Games - it should work fine.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3342/3648905433_f41af3e185_b.jpg)
See? I know that Copplestone and Pulp work well together, so I infer from that that they will be fine. I couldn't put my copplestone figures into this pic, as they are being finished for LPL Round 10.
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Again, I dunno Sine' -
Brigade Games stuff always looks small to me and Pulp Figures material always looks short in comparison to Copplestone Castings. Take a look at my LPL Round 4 entry:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=11057.msg128374#msg128374
The Copplestone Detective is considerably taller than his Pulp Figures counterpart, and against a Bronze Age figure (already taller than a Copplestone) the difference is going to be magnified. I've got some Brigade Games Musketeers lying around that I didn't get done for an LPL entry- If I get a chace I'll paint them up and then you can see a scale comparison between Brigade Games and Bronze Age. Frankly, I think the scale difference will create a dissonance on the tabletop... :?
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Heldrak, the Norwegians are Brigade Models, not Brigade Games. They match up quite nicely with my Imperial Guard, my Pulp Germans, and my Hasslefree figures. I'll order some, and we'll see. I have a bunch of Copplestone Cavemen I am finishing up for the competition, and they don't look too tall beside my Pulp - at least not to my eye. Heh, we'll see. I am in desperate want of those Green Martians, though. Bronze Age does a beautiful job with those.
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Now that my Martians can finally rest from their labors in the LPL, here is a scale comparison photo showing a Bronze Age Dead Earth Imperial (Martian) against a Copplestone Castings figure and a couple of others...
Thank you again for taking those photos. Relative to the majority of my figure collection I think that the BA guys should be fine... once I decide how to deal with the huge metal bases.
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Thank you again for taking those photos. Relative to the majority of my figure collection I think that the BA guys should be fine... once I decide how to deal with the huge metal bases.
The sculptor intended that the large metal bases be used as bases. He thought he was saving painters the trouble of gluing on a base. Unfortunately, some people don't like the already cast bases.
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Thank you again for taking those photos. Relative to the majority of my figure collection I think that the BA guys should be fine... once I decide how to deal with the huge metal bases.
The sculptor intended that the large metal bases be used as bases. He thought he was saving painters the trouble of gluing on a base. Unfortunately, some people don't like the already cast bases.
It's one thing to have a modest standard-sized base ala Foundry, Pulp Figures, etc. It's another thing entirely to have such a huge chunky beast that's an unmitigated pain to remove (I actually broke two sets of angle cutters trying to hack the bases off my BA figures and that was after I had been sawing them with a jeweler's saw...!).
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The sculptor intended that the large metal bases be used as bases. He thought he was saving painters the trouble of gluing on a base. Unfortunately, some people don't like the already cast bases.
I am aware that the intention is that the cast bases remain on the figures.
In my experience most collectors, painters and in particular gamers like to have a semblance of uniformity in how they base their figures.
People who have a dislike for slot bases seem to usually clip the tab off and rebase on a washer or a coin or similar.
Bases like those on Foundry or Copplestone figures can esily be either removed or simply covered up when attached to a "standard" base. Not so with the BA figures it appears. I think that it was a poor decision to use a base design that is largely incompatable with most of what else is out there.
It is a testament to how good some of the figures look that many still seem to buy them knowing the removing the base will be so troublesome. I cant wait to get my hands on some of them :)
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What is a good way to paint Green Martian skin and Black Pirate skin? The latter is especially puzzling because ERB says it's true black, which is a very unsatisfactory color to shade.
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I've got a Bronze Age Tars Tarkas which I'm going to get around to relatively soon, so I'll post it up here with a how to when I'm finished. Currently, I'm planning to use Foundry Storm Green (27A/27B/27C) and also Coat D'Arms Black Green and Dark Green. Storm Green is a more subdued grey/green and CdA Dark Green is a brighter, grassier green. Right now, the plan is to use CdA Black Green as a basecoat and them the Foundry Storm Green triad, with the CdA Dark Green mixed in if it's not coming out green enough.
Otherworldly black skin (Black Martian Pirates, Drow, etc.) is always a trial. I don't recommend using brown as a highlight, as they always wind up just looking African. I am planning to get some of the new Bronze Age Black Martian Pirates eventually, but it will probably be a while before I can get around to them. The most successful treatments of Drow skin that I've seen all use blue elements and/or grey elements for highlights. You have to be careful with giving otherworldly black skin enough highlights or it just winds up looking unfinished.
Black is frankly troublesome to highlight in any form (as the highlights take it away from looking black). My advice would be to use a blue/grey for mid-tones & highlights and to keep the highlights small, but keep them sharp and keep them bright so they stand out. I used to collect photographic examples of Drow skin paint-jobs, but I won't be able to post them (as I don't have the rights to the images). It might be worthwhile to check CMON (Cool Mini Or Not) using "Drow" as a keyword to see if you see some examples of black skin that you like. It might also be worth checking Google Image search, but then you'll wind up with a lot of illustrations that don't have anything to do with figure painting.
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I think that it was a poor decision to use a base design that is largely incompatable with most of what else is out there.
Sorry to reanimate this thead a bit but my Bronze Age order arrived this morning and I felt compelled to mention it. I am seriously impressed with the crisp detail and style of the figures that I ordered, so much so that I dont give a hoot about the bases.
Just in case being negative about the bases might put some of you off buying them: dont let it. I havent got this much of a kick out of opening a parcel full of miniatures for a long time. I recommend that you give Bronze Age some of your money now ;)
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The Rogue Trooper miniatures from Bronze age are smaller than the Foundry one.I think they are better.Bronze age have also done ten not Norts.They will make a better starting piont for a game and cheaper than the Foundry ones.
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What is a good way to paint Green Martian skin and Black Pirate skin? The latter is especially puzzling because ERB says it's true black, which is a very unsatisfactory color to shade.
Please pardon the threadomancy, but I promised Flooglestreet that I would provide a recipe for Black Martian skin when I got around to doing my Pirates, and I thought that others might like to know as well. First, here are the Pirates themselves:
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/Heldrak/LPL8/IMG_0023-1.jpg)
These were done primarily using the Reaper Master Series Dark Elf Skin triad, but I added a further base coat with a 50/50 mix of the Reaper Dark Elf Skin Shadow Color + Foundry Black and a final highlight of the Reaper Dark Elf Skin Highlight + a small amount of VGC (Vallejo Game Color) Wolf Grey (#72047). In the final result, they came out a little more grey than I might like, but I felt like the additional highlight/loss of "blackness" was worth it it to bring out more detail. As I mentioned before, it's always a tradeoff when painting otherworldly black skin how much darkness you want to sacrifice to show more of the features.
Stay tuned to this thread and I may also have a recipe for Green Martian skin after round 10 finishes... ;)
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Nice, reminds me of an old issue of Excalibur
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Heldrak those are really nice - brilliant skin tone. I always thought the discussions re Black Martians being the same as coloured men on Earth was wrong and you have the perfect solution to that argument!
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I had tried to get my first born painted like Nubian 's on earth. I couldn't get it, though. Your recipe, Heldrak looks like a winner.
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Now Bronze Age just needs to produce some yellow Martians and some Holy Therns and we'll be all set...!
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Now Bronze Age just needs to produce some yellow Martians and some Holy Therns and we'll be all set...!
You betchum Red Rider!
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As promised, I thought I would post my recipe for Green Martian skin. Here are some pictures of Tars Tarkas from my LPL IV Round 10 entry:
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/Heldrak/LPL10a/IMG_0016.jpg)
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/Heldrak/LPL10a/IMG_0017.jpg)
Tars was done with elements of the Foundry Moss Green triad over a black undercoat. I started with Foundry Moss Green 29A, then washed that lightly with the Citadel Gnarlock Green wash, thinned 1-3 with water. Then I applied a 50/50 mix of the Foundry Moss Green Shade (29A) and the Foundry Moss Green Mid-tone (29B). Then I highlighted with the Foundry Moss Green Mid-Tone by itself. The Foundry Moss Green gets very yellow as you go up through the highlights and I didn't want to compromise Tar Tarkas' green color, so I stopped there. His teeth and tusks were done with the Foundry Bone triad and his tongue with the Foundry Purple shade and mid-tone colors. I did the pupils of his large eyes in black with a tiny white fleck of highlight in the center of the pupil (although Burroughs specifies that Green Martian's pupils are red).
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Now that my Martians can finally rest from their labors in the LPL, here is a scale comparison photo showing a Bronze Age Dead Earth Imperial (Martian) against a Copplestone Castings figure and a couple of others:
(http://i169.photobucket.com/albums/u219/Heldrak/Forum%20Saves/IMG_0002-28.jpg)
While looking on figure number 3 I've realised that I had 1 quote in my mind:
"I am NOT Dixon Hill! I just look like Dixon Hill!"
lol lol lol lol lol