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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Charlie_ on August 04, 2018, 11:43:22 AM
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I got hold of some of the FANTASTIC medieval buildings from Hudson & Allen.
(https://i.imgur.com/rXD6Z0r.jpg)
For those who don't know, they are made of some sort of resin foam. They have VERY good fine detail, and are extremely lightweight. I only hear good things about them, and have only SEEN good examples of them painted up.
I don't know yet how durable they are. As I say, they are lightweight, and it is tempting to think they could dent or chip easily, but I don't know.
I don't know the history of Hudson & Allen, or when these buildings were first made, but nowadays they are sold by Vatican Enterprises in the US. There is a nice big range of medieval buildings, various cottages and barns and the walled farm you can see here, plus several others I haven't got yet including some interesting urban buildings. There is also a VERY extensive range of castles walls, including all sorts of buildings, halls, stairs etc attached to the inside. There also seems to be buildings for a few other eras / settings, including wood cabins, native american dwellings and Scottish highland builings. Vatican Enterprises also supplies MDF hoardings for the castle range.
There doesn't seem to be anywhere in the UK that supplies them, meaning you have to order them form US, which means pricey postage and customs. HOWEVER... the buidlings are actually priced really reasonably in the first place, especially compared to companies like Grandmanner. The small cottages and barns are all about $10-$12. I believe it averages out as ok cost-wise, if you place one large order rather than several smaller ones. I was planning to get this lot painted up, and sometime in the future (next year at least) do a second order of the other buildings I didn't get, including some of the interesting urban ones. So this order was the walled farm and most of the basic rural buildings - annoyingly though I seem to have missed one of the timber frame cottages, which looks to my eyes as the best of the batch.
However the Vatican Enterprises website doesn't inspire confidence - it doesn't look like it's been updated in many years, doesn't look very professional... I also found them available from a US supplier called Michigan Toy Soldier, which had the full range, so I went for them instead. It took a very long time, seems they didn't have them in stock and had to order from Vatican, who then had to actually cast up the buildings.... Total time from ordering to receiving package was 2 months, from US to UK. But I wasn't in any hurry, so I was happy. No complaints with Michigan Toy Soldier. Though next time I probably will contact Vatican Enterprises and see about ordering direct from them.
If anyone's interested, the buildings cost me £126 (the walled farm was about half of that), shipping was £37 and customs was £25. Total £188. Make of that what you will, but consider how much something similar from Grandmanner or Tabletop World would cost!!!
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Anyway, now I'm looking for advice from anyone who has experience with these buildings, or anyone who has painted up medieval buildings.
Specific to these buildings and the resin foam they are made of....
1 - Will the foam melt if I use hot glue gun to attach them to bases, or spray prime them?
2 - What did you use to prime them?
And to anyone who has painted medieval buildings like this.... What colours did you use? I'd be interested to see some photo examples with exact colours used. I'm thinking a base coat followed by layered drybrushing for the timber frames and thatched roofs. The rendered walls might be easier to carefully block in and apply washes to.
And what sort of paints do you recommend? I think if I use my Vallejo model paints I will get through them too quickly - what are the best alternatives for terrain painting? For my terrain boards and such I use emulsion tester pots from Wilco, £1 a pot, I could afford to get a selection of suitable colours. Or would specific model paints be more appropriate for this?
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Haven't worked with these in particular, but for both resin terrain and foam terrain (Ziterdes), I use hobby acrylics from a hobby shop. Larger bottles, but can be thinned down to a good consistency. There's a bunch of terrain pictures in my Game of Thrones thread in my signature, all painted with hobby acrylics.
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Halfords car primers should do the trick. There’s the camo range as well that includes black, khaki, green and dark brown.
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I got all 3 of the Scottish Highlands Village buildings. Pretty good quality.
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Hi Charlie
I've done several of these and the castle walls too. Think there are pics on this forum of some of mine?
My approach has been to undercoat black , using humbrol enamel thinned with thinners. Then use acrylics to paint. I use green-greys for all timbers, staring dark and dry brushing up to lighter tones. I think the key approach with theses models is to dry brush , so that all the fine details get picked out and highlighted. Within stages of working the detail lighter, I add a wash of browns to all colours ( such as Army Painter soft tone) and let this dry completely before dry brushing up again, as this way you really can get the castings to do the work for you and create some great looking buildings.
Are you putting them on scenic bases or using as stand alone?
Simon
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Halfords car primers should do the trick. There’s the camo range as well that includes black, khaki, green and dark brown.
Yeah I use Halfords car primers on my minis - the aerosol isn't gonna do anything weird to the resin foam then (i.e. melt it?). If not, that's certainly the easiest option from my point of view.
Hi Charlie
I've done several of these and the castle walls too. Think there are pics on this forum of some of mine?
My approach has been to undercoat black , using humbrol enamel thinned with thinners. Then use acrylics to paint. I use green-greys for all timbers, staring dark and dry brushing up to lighter tones. I think the key approach with theses models is to dry brush , so that all the fine details get picked out and highlighted. Within stages of working the detail lighter, I add a wash of browns to all colours ( such as Army Painter soft tone) and let this dry completely before dry brushing up again, as this way you really can get the castings to do the work for you and create some great looking buildings.
Are you putting them on scenic bases or using as stand alone?
Simon
Yes, I know yours from your blog, and might well end up copying your colour schemes!
I think Army Painter washes sound like a good idea - I use the dark tone extensively. I think I'll get myself the soft tone and strong tone, between the three of them they should give me a good range of washes between the drybrush layers.
Looks like I'll also go to a hobby shop and get myself a selection of brown and grey acrylics.
I'm probably going to give them scenic bases, but I'm not completely certain yet. They do sit nicely on my terrain boards as they are... But the idea of giving each building a yard and fences is too good an opportunity I think. I don't want the bases to be too obvious though... I've got some 6mm MDF which seems very strong, but I think too thick.... I've also got some 3mm hardboard, which seems the right thickness......
Are there any real differences between MDF and hardboard when basing buildings like this? Is hardboard more prone to warping, or anything?
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I have always tended to use sheets of plasticard for basing terrain pieces (and figures prior to laser cutting arriving on the scene). I use about 3mm thickness and the edges can be chanfered with a modelling knife if needed. If it's a large base then you may need to go slightly thicker as the plastiic sheet can bend slightly. It won't warp.
Simon
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I have quite a large castle from Vatican. I simply spray primed mine black with a generic primer and they were fine (my castle walls did seem to come pre-primed in a light greay). For painting, I've used normal acrylic non-craft paint, the sort you can get at the hardware store in little tester pots for $3-4. Personally, I think expensive miniatures paints are overkill for a project of this size.
Also, I had similar trepidation about the Vatican website, but i found them very responsive, and have placed two orders with them directly with no problems.
My only problem with the line, and it is ultimately a minor one, is that these buildings all seem crafted for 25mm a bit more than 28mm and larger. It’s not a big issue, but with the castle, my 25mm minis felt more to scale than my 28mm ones...my Reaper minis definitely started to feel oversized. But for the price and quality, I will happily keep ordering more from this line.
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I am importing these for sale to the UK and Europe, and just waiting for the first shipment to arrive.
I'd be tempted to use a Montana Gold base coat - acrylic spray with no exotherm like many car paints.
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I am importing these for sale to the UK and Europe, and just waiting for the first shipment to arrive.
Well that won't make resisting these any easier....
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Ain't life a beach? ;)
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There doesn't seem to be anywhere in the UK that supplies them, meaning you have to order them form US, which means pricey postage and customs.
Ebob used to be the UK importer / distributor. He seems to come and go with his activities and products...
Good news if there's going to be a new UK importer. I may finally have to succumb!
Will you be carrying the whole range, Meier_Elf_Fanatic, or just a selection?
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Montana paint is very heavy in pigment, very heavy, and will give a somewhat granular effect - but probably not noticeable in this scale. But you do get a good selection of flat paints. Just ALWAYS! remember to shake the can really, really good. And then whack the can a time or two before spraying - and more so after the first round of spraying, both the shaking and the whacking. And CLEAN the nozzle every go! Also, did I say anything about shaking the can really, really, REALLY good?
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I am importing these for sale to the UK and Europe, and just waiting for the first shipment to arrive.
I'd be tempted to use a Montana Gold base coat - acrylic spray with no exotherm like many car paints.
Interesting! Very interesting...
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I am importing these for sale to the UK and Europe, and just waiting for the first shipment to arrive.
That's great to hear, I think you'll find a lot of people interested. If you do so I'll definitely make my second order with you, but I better get these ones painted first!
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I was using them at Partizan:
(https://s19.postimg.cc/6ynqmhkz7/IMG_1481.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6lwcgb2pb/)
Lovely buildings. I used Halfords black to undercoat and dry-brushed various Foundry triads and Vallejo paints. The buildings are attached to 0.5mm aluminium sheet via PVA glue and a splattering of plaster. Fences are Renendra or Fenris.
Good news about a new UK importer, I’m tempted to extend my collection 8)
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I was using them at Partizan:
(https://s19.postimg.cc/6ynqmhkz7/IMG_1481.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/image/6lwcgb2pb/)
They look fantastic!
Looking at that thatched roof at the bottom of the picture... Could you share what colours you used? I'd love to get mine looking like that.
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The thatch is primarily Foundry Rawhide or Drab triads, with a little creamy coloured final highlight if I wanted the thatch to look newish. The one on the left foreground looks to have had a thin brown ink wash added as well. I’ll see if I can find the notes I made at the time, but basically any brown ink will work.
The church mid-left is actually a Gripping Beast model and I painted it quite some time ago, Can’t remember what I used on that.
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That’s a great looking table LT :-*
Judicious use of the teddy bear fur :)
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The thatch is primarily Foundry Rawhide or Drab triads, with a little creamy coloured final highlight if I wanted the thatch to look newish. The one on the left foreground looks to have had a thin brown ink wash added as well. I’ll see if I can find the notes I made at the time, but basically any brown ink will work.
The church mid-left is actually a Gripping Beast model and I painted it quite some time ago, Can’t remember what I used on that.
Thanks, I might have to look into these Foundry triads actually, if just for these buildings... What size pots do them come in, are they good value for money?
This is the sort of thing I could spend a long time experimenting with to get the right colours, and knowing me I'd end up buying loads of paints I never use and have to repaint the buildings at some point, so if anyone can show me pics and the exact colours they used I'll jump at it!
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Charlie - I found my notes on the H&A buildings above. As follows they are:
Undercoat - Halfords spray black
Framework timber 1 - simple dry brush with any light grey, or
Framework timber 2 -drybrush Foundry Moss 29A-C, or
Framework timber 3 - as 1 plus varied dry brushes of Vallejo Chocolate Brown and Foundry Drab 12A-C
Daub - Cote d'Arms Tank Drab, dry brush Horse Dun then Bone (GW?)
Wattle - Any Burnt Umber, then dry brush Foundry Buff 7A-C
Thatch - Vallejo Chocolate Brown, then dry brush Vallejo Russian Green, Foundry Rawhide 11A-C and/or Foundry Moss 29C, and/or thinned wash with brown ink.
Stonework - Burnt Umber, then dry brush Gun Corps Brown (P3), Foundry Buff 7A-C, wash Miniature Paints Stone Green then very heavily thinned Vallejo Sepia.
There's no exact approach with any of these, I carried the heaviness of the dry brush or wash art whim and probably touched up a few highlights in the lightest colour, as the object here was not to get them looking exactly the same, they'd have aged/weathered slightly differently.
I've a right mix of paints available :) but any near approximation would probably work just as well.
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I got the first one done!
I based it, and gave it a fenced garden and a small tree. I decided not to put any vegetables or anything in the garden to make placing models in there easier. I might at a later date add more stuff, barrels etc. I'm pleased with how the composition turned out - giving them gardens / yards / etc makes them into much more useful bits of terrain and fills up the table more, making it look like a real settlement of some sort.
In the end I used paints I had around the house - vallejo, and emulsion tester pots.
I went for 'pink' walls - I don't know about the historical accuracy of this colour, but I saw the Perrys had used a similar one on their plastic house, which seemed good enough justification. If anyone has info on the sort of colours medieval cottages would have been, in particular poorer rural dwellings, I'd like to know! What would be the cheapest? And what sort of colours would suggest a more affluent household?
As others have said, these are a real joy to paint, they take drybrushing and washes REALLY well. The detail in the textures really is fantastic. The only tricky part was drybrushing both the wall panels and the timber frame without messing them up. But I've learnt from this, and will approach the next one slightly differently. Also it should be much easier to paint the houses before attaching them to the base.
(https://i.imgur.com/NjI1q3Y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JeQ1kwb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A7jgenq.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Wu137on.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hpBqCUQ.jpg)
I really am very pleased with how this has turned out!
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Looks great :)
The walls would be a similar colour to the earth in the surrounding area and if you had a bit of spare cash they would've been lime washed :)
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The walls would be a similar colour to the earth in the surrounding area and if you had a bit of spare cash they would've been lime washed :)
So this reddish brown would be good for the humble cottages, and save the white walls for the walled farmhouse?
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Yeah, that should be fine. Don't do the white too bright though.
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They’ve come out very nicely and adding the enclosures to wargames buildings is always worth the effort.
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Excellent pictures levied troop and Charlie_! Rather tempting to buy as well, as I already have positive experiences from the a bit similar Ziterdes foam terrain pieces.
Are there any real differences between MDF and hardboard when basing buildings like this? Is hardboard more prone to warping, or anything?
Foamed PVC sheets (http://tuotteet.etra.fi/en/g2228476/polyvinyl-chloride-foam-pvc) is the material gods of Asgård use for this purpose: lightweight, can be carved and cut yet retains hard flatness quite well. Can be ordered pre-cut to customer's requirements.
Thick (5+ mm) cork sheets work also quite well as basing material, even if it's not that rigid. As they're a bit flexible, they will tend to lay relatively good (if not exactly flat) because of the gravitational pull. Cork sheet bases can be painted with elastic acrylic paint to protect them while retaining the flexibility at the same time. Edges are also easily cut to sloping sides.
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Nice work, Charlie! If you don't mind I'll show some more of the H&A line of buildings as I'm working with them for a long time now. The material is polyurethane foam, the same stuff you'll use to fix real doors and windows into a building. It's very sturdy even if it doesn't look so. Ben Pope from Vatican Enterprises bought the moulds of the medieval line some 17 years ago from the original sculptor Ken Osen, the founder of Hudson & Allen. Ben is a very nice guy and it's a joy to do business with him. Yes, you must have some patience as some of the products like the wall parapets will be made to order.
You can use all kinds of undercoating and paint types on that material, it's quite hard-wearing. A good base is recommended as others here said already. For me THE best and most detailed medieval buildings all around, museum quality! You can even modify or convert them as you can see below on the large farm, I cut the one-piece casting into two parts, broaden it onto a thin hardwood base and added a new gatehouse on one side and a new wall part with door on the other. Main paintjob was done when the parts where separated making painting so much easier ...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-041118144047-361611202.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-041118144049-36162754.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-041118144050-36163914.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-041118144052-36164334.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-041118144054-361652369.jpeg)
:)
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:-*
Those are amazing creations Michael. Outstanding.
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(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-041118144050-36163914.jpeg)
Oh wow, now that is fantastic!
I've had that farm / inn / whatever it is on my shopping list for some time, though it'll probably have to wait a year or two. Along with some of the other slightly more 'urban' H&A buildings, the ones with pavements.... However for the life of me I can't really work out what sort of building it's supposed to be, and what role it would have on a gaming table? I was thinking it would work nicely as some sort of suburban complex, but for that to work it would needs lots more buildings around it... I think you've made it work as a farm just perfectly simply be expanding the courtyard.
(though where are the additional gatehouse and gate from?)
I can see it working very well with additional barns and buildings outside, some sort of walled garden or orchard..... Great setting for a scenario.
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Wow! That looks amazing Admiral, beautiful job on it.
With the addition of some mash tubs in the courtyard it would make a large brewery - just the sort of thing my chaps like to fight over :)
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I just went to have a look on the Vatican Enterprises site, and it's actually been updated!!!
Some 'new' buildings added... Though I have seen these available before, I think from the site I got mine from (Michigan Toy Solider). There is a cut-down version of the village/farm complex posted above, just the inn portion of it...
(http://www.wargamescenics.com/LateMedievalInn4.jpg)
And a cool new set which has two small houses with a shared walled courtyard.
(http://www.wargamescenics.com/9915-6thumb.png)
There is also a siege minehead which claims to be new, though I think I've seen it before?
(http://www.wargamescenics.com/MineHeadThumb1.png)
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(though where are the additional gatehouse and gate from?)
The additional parts were scratchbuilt from foamcard, card, plasticard, some woodstrips, milliput, greenstuff and an old Citadel dungeon door ...
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-051118170850-361851328.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/36/93-051118170851-36189855.jpeg)
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Here's the next one painted. A cottage and a barn based together. The wattle fences and the little animal shed are form the plastic Perry Miniatures cottage. The tree is Woodland Scenics.
I went for a different colour scheme here, still all done with rough drybrushing and washes, relying on my most trusted product - Army Painter dark tone wash.. The beams I did more of a greyish brown rather the dark grey / black of the last one. The walls are highlighted up from Vallejo Chocolate Brown mixing in Army Painter Bonewhite, followed by numerous washes including some green around the bottom of the panels. The barn is base coated a dark murky brown mix, heavily 'wet-brushed' with Chocolate Brown, drybrushed up in layers adding light grey to the mix, then a wash of the trusty dark tone.
The dirt yard I almost messed up - its textured with filler, but rather than lightly stippling I ended up turning it into a muddy mess with huge ridges and lumps. I used a brown flock roughly over the lot though to hide the over-the-top texture, and think it worked out fine.
(https://i.imgur.com/uxDM00a.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lB74erk.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uIZQJs1.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/tzbcYC1.jpg)
And here are both houses together.
(https://i.imgur.com/nJEvXLH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qMdiL1H.jpg)
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Very nice indeed ;D
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Very fitting 8)
The 'yard' looks fine :)
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Looks terrific - becoming more of a small town, than a village ;)