Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Darksider on August 13, 2018, 04:45:41 PM
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As the title says, I am looking for a good old Dungeon Crawl game with miniatures.
Unfortunately I have no idea where i should look. I have some games at home, but there is always something tiny that puts me off. Don't get me wrong I like them all, but I am looking for "that" game.
I try to explain what i want, i hope that there is such a game ;). To say it simple, i am looking for a game like pathfinder or dungeons and dragons but without the RP and with more Combat and Exploration. It should have miniatures and should be playable on a grid or without a grid.
My friends and I only want to smash in the door to a dungeon, slaughter some monsters, take their treasures and hear the lamentation of the women=) (i like Conan XD )
Here are some Games i own.
Otherworld Miniature Skirmish (don't like the activiation system, and for my taste not enough monsters).
Frostgrave (like it, but only wizard and captain can advance)
Song of Blades and Hereos (also like it, but i hate the sticks sometimes)
Open Combat (never tried it)
D&D (as i said before, i like it but i hate the RP)
Pathfinder ( i really love this game, but not so much the RP side)
Basic Fantasy (old school RPG, it's more that what i want, but i don't know)
Sword and Wizardry (light, continual light, core, complete, like it, but it's the same as with all rpgs)
Okay i will stop here. Should be enough games and you should get a sense of what i like and what i want.
I hope some of you can help me.
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I've heard good things about Goalsystem Delves:
http://www.four-colorstudios.com/goalsystem-delves.html (http://www.four-colorstudios.com/goalsystem-delves.html)
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Have you considered the WotC D&D boardgames ? There are five
Dungeons & Dragons: Castle Ravenloft Board Game (2010)
Dungeons & Dragons: Wrath of Ashardalon Board Game (2011)
Dungeons & Dragons: The Legend of Drizzt Board Game (2011)
Dungeons & Dragons: Temple of Elemental Evil Board Game (2015)
Dungeons & Dragons: Tomb of Annihilation Board Game (2017)
The game play is very easy and are available online so you can read through them to see if it fits your needs.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/59946/dungeons-dragons-castle-ravenloft-board-game/linkeditems/integrateswith
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Thanks for the answers. Yeah goalsystem delves, was one of the games i considered. Will have a look at it again.
I already own all of the d&d boardgames ;). I liked the first 3 a lot, but then the quality of the minis got worse with each new set.
I don't like the level system it has, cause it happens during a game if you roll a 20. Also you can only level up to lvl 2=(.
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I think Melee and Wizard would fit the bill nicely. They are the precursors to The Fantasy Trip by Steve Jackson. Melee and Wizard were about the combat. Super simple but with all the depth you want to create. It is long out of print but Steve Jackson has the rights back and is currently on kickstarter.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sjgames/the-fantasy-trip-old-school-roleplaying?ref=email
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Thanks for the answers. Yeah goalsystem delves, was one of the games i considered. Will have a look at it again.
I've just learnt there is a 2nd edition on preorder: https://feralgamersinc.weebly.com/delve-2nd-ed.html# (https://feralgamersinc.weebly.com/delve-2nd-ed.html#)
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I've long thought that the perfect dungeon crawler is a bit of a red herring. I'd either go with a top-notch skirmish game or a top-notch RPG and just ditch the role-playing elements.
For the latter, I'd recommend The Black Hack (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/178359/The-Black-Hack) (and at two quid, you can't go far wrong ...). it's got a great resource-management system using dice (for torches, arrows, etc.) so you never quite know when you'll run out. But because it's got the traditional stats (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA) and a system of saving under them on d20, you can use it for non-combat challenges (leaping chasms, climbing cliffs, dodging boulders, etc.). You might have to allot a movement rate (five squares or whatever), but the system's really sound and simple.
Rolling up characters and buying gear is simple, quick and fun. The armour system (temporary hit points, in effect) and the resource-management stuff add a lot of tension to games.
Then it depends whether you're using a referee or not. If you are, just have him or her set up a simple dungeon and run it without the role-playing element but with all the trips, tracks and whatnot.
If not, you could randomly generate rooms, corridors and opponents using Ganesha's 4 Against Darkness (http://www.ganeshagames.net/product_info.php?cPath=1_55&products_id=295) and a Paizo flip mat and markets (or dungeon floorplans, if you have them, or whatever).
Between them, the two games cost less than a tenner in PDF form.
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Another thing I've done with both Whitehack (my favoured system for full-on RPG campaigns) and The Black Hack is to set up a full dungeon with floortiles and just generate/place monsters as the players go through. So no real roleplaying, but the full weight and variety of an RPG's monster rules. I blogged about that here (https://hobgoblinry.blogspot.com/2018/04/dungeon-crawling.html).
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Thank you all for your help ;).
@Commander Carnage
Is Melee and Wizard comparable to GURPs? I have Dungeon Fantasy at home, which is in some way based on GURPs and i find it kinda hard to understand.
@Arthadan
Thanks, good to know ^^.
@Hobgoblin
You're exactly saying that what i think all the time XD. Good to know that I am not the only one^^. Black Hat, I stumbled once or twice about the name, but never looked into the system. Maybe I should give it a try.
If it's possible we prefere to play without a referee or a GM or DM.
Have to rules at home for 4 Against Darkness and already had the idea to use it for generating rooms, but never tried it. Thought it wouldn't work well with pathfinder. I have everything at home from flipmats and dungeontiles (d&d boardgames), so should be easy to get some rnd dungeon together.
I did something similar, only that I used Pathfinder Beginner Box Rules. I created a Dungeon and then i used Basic Fantasy rnd room generation rules, for filling it.
Then i took the pathfinder rules and thought about a good CR for each room containing Monsters and Traps. Most of the encounters where only CR 1 or 2 as the heros only had lvl 1.
Something I want to try is two hour wargames Sword and Sorcery. Seems like something that also could fulfill my demands.
Does someone has experience with the system?=)
I also found Dark Fast Dungeon, but i don't know. Seems it's more focused on printing out tiles and minis for the game.
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Not that this will scratch your itch today, but I have been developing and playtesting for about 18 months now what I have always wanted in a miniatures-based dungeon crawler. I hope to get it in good enough shape to be able to release it to the world in the next few months. Essentially it's a head-to-head dungeon crawl system with good tactical combat mechanics, balanced character creation, and campaign-style character development. Each player controls both their own party of adventurers and their opponent's encounters, so nobody has to play game master yet foe behavior isn't pre-programmed (because your opponent is actually controlling the foes you encounter in the dungeon).
I've written up quite a bit about the concepts and my playtests at my blog. Here are the three main posts:
POST 1: https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2017/11/ballads-of-dungeon-delving.html
(https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2017/11/ballads-of-dungeon-delving.html)
(Note: I started my game's design using "Song of Blades & Heroes" as a foundation, but eventually chaffed at some of the things that you mentioned as downsides, too, and so abandoned it for an entirely different set of mechanics. While I kept some of my initial ideas, you'll see in the second and third posts below how I evolved my game away from Songs mechanics and into something I think works better for dungeon crawling games.)
(https://i.imgur.com/2zqqGAF.jpg)
POST 2: https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2018/01/dungeon-delve-crypt-of-mighty-lord-thule.html
(https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2018/01/dungeon-delve-crypt-of-mighty-lord-thule.html)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wVgClXkJ6y0/WlvSCZZ-uQI/AAAAAAAACho/6t0m44QyRmYsDgw-vnrOD93PdR1Gd9FrwCLcBGAs/s640/Photo%2BJan%2B13%252C%2B11%2B07%2B04%2BPM%2B%25281%2529.jpg)
POST 3: https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2018/05/dungeon-delve-when-first-rooms-are-last.html
(https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2018/05/dungeon-delve-when-first-rooms-are-last.html)
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ttycGVekFss/WuyHZiUGxpI/AAAAAAAADw0/8OHVNXJrpXEg03YUWqGxcxqX_KQ26NHwQCEwYBhgL/s640/Photo%2BApr%2B28%252C%2B10%2B31%2B05%2BPM.jpg)
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Can't wait for the kickstarter of your system, Bibliophile! (when I've asked you via comment on your blog whether your rules will be available, you've said that you'll kickstart them :) )
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@The Bibliophile
Wow that's a really long time. But what you say sounds interesting. Will have a look at your system, if it is available after ks. Kickstarter doesn't work for me unfortunately.
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Try looking for dungoneer on the web
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Massive Darkness
https://cmon.com/product/massive-darkness/massive-darkness-49d6eb3a-e7a7-4e08-9ed9-5ba83ead8de3
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I always enjoyed Mage Knight Dungeons. Of course, you may not like the Miniatures but I think they were fine. I still play it from time to time
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1832/42225968820_458d567018_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/27kn8pb)WIN_20170421_12_32_06_Pro_LI (https://flic.kr/p/27kn8pb) by John Grusendorf (https://www.flickr.com/photos/156389025@N05/), on Flickr
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massive darkness is a fun game if you want slash and hack...the minis are pretty cools as well
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@Stormwolf
Do you mean Dungeoneer the Cardgame or Dungeoneer from Fighting Fantasy?
@Koyote & Eric, the shed
Do you know, if massive darkness is compatible with zombicide black plague or vice versa?
@warlord frod
Seems interesting, but I thought it is out of production?
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You could always get Dragon Strike from TSR or Heroquest... the rules are great for what you are talking about... quick dirty battle fun, just a small hint of RP, and you can make any map and adventure yourself... I use Dragon Strikes rules for 1 shots, Heroquest for campaigns because you can level up and buy weapons... both rules downloadable from web for free... not as deep as others suggestions, but easy to get new friends to play as not over complicated.
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Do you know, if massive darkness is compatible with zombicide black plague or vice versa?
Massive Darkness had a Kickstarter Exclusive (I think it was exclusive) add-on of a crossover card pack that let you use MD models in Black Plague and vice versa but I don't think the rules are compatible at all. One thing with Massive Darkness though is the campaign rules seem tacked on and not great.
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Massive Darkness had a Kickstarter Exclusive (I think it was exclusive) add-on of a crossover card pack that let you use MD models in Black Plague and vice versa but I don't think the rules are compatible at all. One thing with Massive Darkness though is the campaign rules seem tacked on and not great.
Truth. I actually rather enjoy massive darkness, but it can take awhile to play and the campaign rules just didn't do it for me.
Miniatures are pretty brilliant, though. With the right paint-job they fit right in with my less fantastical things, and they're a lot of fun to paint.
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Darksider,
The Fantasy Trip/Melee/Wizard and GURPS have some similarities but The Fantasy Trip is way simpler. Combat is quick but you have choices/moves that give it more flavor than just checking what number you need to hit a particular AC.
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Thx for your replies ;).
@gibby64
Will have a look at the rules^^.
@Cait Sidhe & Kegluneq
Ah okay. If the Campaign is bad, do you only play one shots? Yeah I like the minis a lot. Considered to buy the game only for the superb minis.
@Commander Carnage
Thanks=). If I find the rules, i will look over them.
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Seems interesting, but I thought it is out of production?
Yes, way out of production, but you can still pick it up on eBay without too much effort. ;) Rules are readily available for free on the web. So I still think its a viable option.
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A combination that I've considered trying is 4 Against Darkness for the generation of rooms and monsters and then Ganesha's Sellswords and Spellslingers for the rest. If you don't know the latter, it's a cooperative miniatures game with the monsters controlled by a deck of cards. It's really good.
To combine the two, I think you'd have an "exploration phase", in which you play 4AD, and a "combat phase" in which you switch to S&S. The switch would be triggered by the appearance of monsters - and then you'd switch back again when they're all wiped out.
As the S&S cards often involve more monsters appearing, you could get a really nice sense of danger - so that if monsters appeared, you'd want to kill them all as quickly as possible before the sounds of battle draw more. And then you'd be safe until 4AD dictated the appearance of new monsters - at which point things could escalate very fast (in a "drums in the deep" Mines of Moria sort of way).
I mused about doing this on here some time ago, but haven't yet actually done it; I didn't have any gridded maps at the time and so was going to make a whole load of cardboard floorplans to go with the 4AD stuff. But I must give it a go with flip mats.
I think my plan last time was to make the 4AD rooms bigger - using two or three squares to one in measurements - so that you'd get lots of room for manoeuvre.
As S&S allows you to interact with monsters and NPC other than by fighting them (sometimes), you could get quite a sophisticated game going fairly easily.
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I haven't played it at all, but the boardgame crowd seems very enamored with Gloomhaven these days. It only uses miniatures for the heroes, if that matters, but no GM required.
Add me to the group that is tepid on the Massive Darkness rules, although the minis are very nice, so it's a good way to get a bunch of stuff if you're the kind of group that doesn't mind house ruling things or using it for testing out different systems.
Great to see all these recommendations. I'll have to check out a few things I hadn't heard about. Keep them coming!
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Truth. I actually rather enjoy massive darkness, but it can take awhile to play and the campaign rules just didn't do it for me.
Miniatures are pretty brilliant, though. With the right paint-job they fit right in with my less fantastical things, and they're a lot of fun to paint.
To be fair, I only get two evenings a week for any gaming, so it has just been a few different one-shots, yeah. Three games were chained together in a campaign, and advancement is a little wonky. Everyone seems to like the idea of it, but there's a lot of other games competing for time, including D&D.
I got in on the kickstarter, so the price-per-mini was much better in my case. That said, the minis from the base game are quite solid.
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I've heard good things about Goalsystem Delves:
http://www.four-colorstudios.com/goalsystem-delves.html (http://www.four-colorstudios.com/goalsystem-delves.html)
Beat me to it, but in my case it's not just "heard" - I've played it a fair bit and it does a good job of being a primarily-minis-combat version of D&D, with a pretty strong "old school" feel. Roleplay is pretty minimal, but the combat is smooth, the character class and level system is deep enough to remain interesting for quite a while, and it's got a solid abstract "between delves" subgame where your heroes do...stuff around town when they aren't adventuring. Big thumbs up.
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hobgoblin, I was thinking doing the same with the mix of 4AD and Sellswords and Spellslingers.
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I love skirmish games. The best traditional fantasy-based skirmish game I have found is still Mordheim - good mechanics overall but with a particularly nice campaign advancement system. Of course the official setting is a ruined city, but it is not hard to extrapolate to a dungeon (we have done so on a few occasions, although we usually play "upstairs". It used to be fairly easy to find a free pdf of the rules online - not sure if that is still true.
So far the best dungeon crawl game I have played - hands down - is Shadows of Brimstone. But instead of a traditional fantasy setting it has a "weird west" setting, so the heroes are sheriffs, gunslingers, Indian scouts, saloon girls, etc. It has nice mechanics for exploring the mines (main setting), and there are "other world" settings to explore as well. You do not need a GM - the mechanics are pretty clear on how the monsters run on autopilot. But the best thing about it is a really robust campaign setting between the games. Of course if you are not interested in painting a bunch of new Western miniatures, not a good choice. The miniatures produced for the game (by Flying Frog) are pretty hit or miss. Each of the two "core" game variants has four different hero types, and the models for them are "meh". The monster models tend to be better. I mainly use Black Scorpion figures for our hero models.
-Michael
-Michael
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There is a new Dungeon Crawler coming to Kickstarter next October. It's called Dungeon Universalis and looks great but so far there is information about it only in Spanish (the game will be translated into English).
Translated from the creator's page (http://ludicdragon.com/dungeon-universalis (http://ludicdragon.com/dungeon-universalis)):
A huge Universal Compendium
Feel the experience of playing this universal system in a Fantasy World. Live the thrill of RPG adventures, strategy, and balance of wargames and cards and events of a board game.
Balance and high replayability
Dungeon Universalis is a gameboard for 2 to 6 players (though there is also a solo mode). A true homemage to classic Dungeon Crawlers. But it's much more than that because is also a universal system created so that its versatility, balance, and the number of options will allow you to use components and story backgrounds from other games, be it adventures, maps, characters, miniatures, etc., using them effortlessly with this rule set. You'll find therefore replayability is maximized.
Different game modes
Different game modes, scalable difficulty, single adventures and big campaigns. Random or predefined scenarios and a system to make your own adventures.
This is the website, but it has no content yet: http://dungeonuniversalis.com/ (http://dungeonuniversalis.com/)