Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: tin shed gamer on October 15, 2018, 01:03:10 AM
-
I've been trying to find the time to scratch build a church for an age. But paid work keeps robbing me of time.
So my youngest I spent a wet afternoon looking at 'funny wood' churches. This is the one he picked and this is a far as his interest took him (the dry fit.)before declaring that he thought I'd be able to handle it on my own from here.
Needs a little more of a prologue to get to the point I was abandoned.
Let him pick a kit , Short of it never turning up . how much of a pain could it be?I thought.
A lot is the answer.
He picked this one on EBay for £13 . fair enough not going to break the bank.
Look at the pictures showed the church side as one complete panel . Read the description it said the designer had a cunning plan.He'd cut the alter end off to make it modular. As the boy had set his heart on it. I sent an email asking if it was possible to get a copy of the one advertised not the converted version of the description As the one piece version was better for gaming.
Got a reply telling me I wasn't familiar with English Church designs and the cut was so he could make an additional module to make a cruciform church at a later stage. (Paraphrasing slightly) Smile I thought your seven year olds sat next to you. Some people can be a bit precious about their product. So I politely replied that That converting to a module ment that theres now three joint lines in the middle of the longest flat surface of the sides. If I did buy the thing I'd have to camouflage the joint with. Buttresses. The replied that he'd a set of buttresses hed been working on for a graveyard set. He'd send if I bought a church. So with an excited Seven year old bouncing around at shoulder height I gave in.
The bloody thing arrived only to find the net for the side of the church had cut the detailing at full thickness. Shouldn't have been a major issue Easy enough to glue the bits back into a panel. Only... They weren't in the bag. So Another email later to be told there's nothing wrong with the net . But a cog must have slipped.
Plus side a replacement panel was sent first class and arrived on Saturday. Only... It's buggered.
Popped another email off. To their credit they replied quickly and offered to replace the replacement.
I said no thank you. I'd rather just glue the thing and get on with it. They did reply they were worried I might not get it to fit.Still smiling I replied I'd be fine with piece to repair.
Its not all negative the kit did squeaky dry fit as promised. Infact nothings glued (other than the broken side panel repair) in the pictures.
The roof is quite a loose fit compared to the rest of the building.
Weird bits .
The two sections are intended to be joined with two mdf staples fitted into holes in the interior floor. So the take up floor space . Also the floot net is the same as the base panel of the roof .Which means the floor has even more holes in it than the ones for the staples. As ever slot required for the roof has been duplicated in the floor.
In short its a naive kit in which its clear the designers ideas have run a head of production and corrections have been forgotten in the excitement of building.There's more bugbears but I'm not going to list them
Is it a bad kit ? No, it would be unfair to judge so. Is it perfect? definitely not. But it is usable solid starting point.
Is it value for money? Im not convinced at the moment (definitely feeling a little jaded by the false start.). I'll only be able to answer honestly when Ive finished and seen just how much tweaking it takes. Even so you do get quite a bit for your money.
-
For those who already know. There's absolutely no way That I was going to build this as intended.
For one I've the original sheet with a mis-cut side with two perfect Windows and a side with a huge blank spot.
So here's the start of the chop around.
You can also clearly see the holes in the floors in the original kit.
-
Well, as long as you see MDF products as the basis for a nice tabletop building, instead of a build and play option, this should not be too much of an issue.
The price is really low for the amount of MDF you get, so now it's up to you to tart it up.
Even thin card will help; you could cut out tiles for the floor and attach them with PVA. And there's some interestingly textured wallpaper out there for use on the walls.
Have you looked at 1/48 doll houses btw? I have, and there are some very interesting and inexpensive buildings available. But those too are just the bare framework on which you base your actual end result.
It's not 4-Ground, which has all these pre-painted buildings that will work for anyone not willing/able to put in the work to create something half decent from those bare skeletons, but I think the end results are invariably nicer than pre-painted.
So I'm really interested to see what you will do with this church. It's a bit rough around the edges, but I certainly think it has potential! :)
-
I'm lookin forward to seeing how this project progresses, as I have an unfinished MDF church kit waiting for me to gather the enthusiasm and inspiration to finish it to the high standard I try to maintain for my terrain.
-
Daeothar
I'm planning on using card as I've a bit of experience using it.
I agree there's alot of mdf for £12.95p . So much so that I've enough to build all the additional detailing. Infact to the point I could have built exactly the same church with out using the mis cut wall.
As of now I'm pretty sure theres still enough mdf for a building to go in a grave yard as well.
Bullshot
I've a cunning plan for both the interior and the exterior. That should be easy to duplicate.
Heres the progress so far.
Mark.
-
This is looking great. I particularly like to parapets and supports.
Here is an image of my MDF English Church built from the Timeline kit.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fFtl5qZ0K2k/VyWsQf6ct1I/AAAAAAAAQV4/nZclyfgjsg0mpqInBZDpbjzj_Ctj9ZW0wCLcB/s320/MDF%2BChurch%2BFinished%2B073.JPG)
The model was featured in issue 84 of Wargames, Soldiers and Strategy for full details see this link;
https://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/2016/05/the-church-of-st-laurence-or-tarting-up.html
Tony
-
Cheers Tony,
The timeline kit was one I looked at. But since I've got a late Romano British church . It was just too close to make the effort worthwhile.
I like the multi coloured stone work definitely emotes the period feel.
There's a little progress on the church . The corner stones look a little oversized as they'll be chopped around a bit once they're all in place.
Mark.
-
Looking good so far mate. 👍
-
I agree.....
Looking good.
Tony
-
Very interesting build , I,ll follow your progress on this thread . Churches are always useful and decorative on the wargames table . Your writing style is engaging and the tutorials are easy to follow. This kit seems to be a bargain at the price , and the seller may benefit from the exposure given here . I enjoy reading threads like this. 👌🏼
-
Excellent! Once you add some details, those MDF kits really start looking good.
Following to see the finished church. :)
-
Cheers Gents,
I'm just about at the first stage of painting. Not sure if the picture's show it too well but I'm aiming for a lead roof rather than tiled. Simply because this has been made sat on the sofa.Pushing my luck as its less than two months old.(quite frankly I'm amazed I'm sit alive .Probably wouldn't be had it been noted I've been using super glue.((sand put on in the garden I'm an idiot not suicidal))
I was toying with the idea of leading the tower roof as well . But then thought better of it. As I could if time or CBA allows use the mdf spire as a removable piece .
Mark.
-
I was thinking that before when i saw it on the sofa braver man than me! Looks great
-
I would have sat in my armchair....Unfortunately that has gone off to university with my son.Which was lucky otherwise the new sofas wouldn't have fit..mmm :` I wounder?Nah the Mrs says its just a strange coincidence .Just like when I go to a show and there's more junk in my workshop the next day. ::)
-
A lead roof , whilst perfectly suitable, limits the time frame as would a thatched roof . Tiles would give a far longer stretch of gaming periods. That said, the model is looking great and I,m keen to see what you do with it . 😁 The new porch really works well , btw .
-
I revel in strange coincidences lol lol Strange to say, more junk continues to appear in Grandpa's Wargame Bunker at odd intervals as well ;) In the Marianas we have mischievous little people called duendes - think leprechauns with an attitude. I blame it on them and put out a cold beer every now and then. Love the ongoing build by the way and would like to put in a vote for a leaded roof on the tower.
Lon
-
Lead roofs well and truly predate the reformation which is fine by me as the earliest I aim to use it for is the civil war . However it will spend most its table time as a twentieth century piece( plus a leaded roof takes next to no time to do.)
Wait ... What ? Hang on ... You leave beer out :o Willingly? Are you un well? Have you joined some strange cult. Are they forcing you too? Is the heat getting to you?
That's unnatural . lol
Having got this far I think I'll definitely have to go back and add a leaded roof to the tower.As the amount of space on top of the tower , feels odd. So it needs visually breaking up.
I've done a small test section on the end of the church . Just to confirm that the textured paint would work as render on the church not just my Adobes and Roman buildings
Now its the fun job of masking off the stonework .Before I can add the rendering texture to the whole church.
Mark.
-
Here's a little more colouring in. Still needs weathering.but the basic shades of the walls are done.
It's a little odd looking mainly because I've not touched the roofs .plus the doors and windows aren't in place yet.
-
Coming along nicely 👍
-
I've had very little spare time of late. Tonight I managed to sneak a little time to add some windows. Nothing glamorous or complicated . Just Sharpie permanent marker on old blister packs.
Next job is the floor and internal bits and bob's.
-
Whilst nursing a sprained elbow and bruised ego today, I've managed to paint and place the first flooring section.
-
Flooring looks good!
-
Those competitive drinking injuries can be embarrassing lol lol Love the floor.
Lon
-
God loves your painting skills :-*
-
Cheers Chaps,
I know it may seem a bit of a "seen one seen them all " build . However the inside will be more.Me for want of a better word.
Here's a little more progress with the floor.
In fact it's pretty much all of it. The alter will be on a Dias with an alter screen. This can't be added until I've tackle the interior wall detail.I'm more or less set on the styling . mind you I'm making it up as I go along. So I won't know for certain till it's done.
-
This, sir, is what separates the OK from the marvelous! :-*
The extra detail you are lavishing on the inside of the church is exactly what it needed and when finished, this will be one stunning piece of work! And to think this started out as a cheap, empty (and broken!) shell...
-
Starting to blossom into what I expected from you. Terrific. 👍
-
This, sir, is what separates the OK from the marvelous! :-*
The extra detail you are lavishing on the inside of the church is exactly what it needed and when finished, this will be one stunning piece of work! And to think this started out as a cheap, empty (and broken!) shell...
I agree- stupendous stuff TSG!
-
Beautiful work. I concur too, these details really make the difference. Bravo!
-
Floor is a great addition :-* :-* :-*
Keep up the good work
I like the windows as well
-
Love the detail on this and the overall appearance. :)
-
I think the work on the tiled floor looks great.
Thank you for sharing the w-i-p.
Tony
-
Really great to see this develop. Excellent work :)
-
Thanks chaps. It's turning in to a battle of the bloody minded.
Started putting the basic interior walls .( corner shading to be added once the detail pieces are sorted.)
Slight misfire . Everything is even on the inside. Turns out the windows are couple of millimetres lower on the door side.Its my own fault I didn't notice when I checked the fit. It's not major just another foible of the kit. ::)
Mark.
-
Looking good Mark.
-
That is amazing.
-
Cheers Still plodding along. ::)
Here's tonight's musings the interior walls of the side Chappell ?
Mark.
-
That works for me!
-
That looks marvelous! I've got a similar-looking Warbases MDF church that's mostly finished, needs windows and more interior details, and your walls and windows are inspiring.
-
The Warbase church was at the top of my list of mdf kits as a starting point(only reason I have used it is every time I mention doing a church someone at the club keeps saying Don't buy it we'll get you one.This came up and I thought sod it . It's been three year's ::))
Anyway here's tonights progress all the basic walls and flooring is now done, plus the first of the more '3D' detail elements.
Still touching up and adding shading as and when.
Mark.
-
And here I was wondering how in the heck you were going to paint the interior walls after already assembling the thing. I ran into that problem with the first kitbashed building I did. Subsequent buildings saw me fully painting the interior walls prior to assembly. But I see what you're doing here: painting carefully fitted interior panels and then slipping them inside the pre-assembled building walls. Thanks for the tip!
Great work on this church project. It's looking wonderful!
-
Outstanding work - you have really taken this to another level and beyond. I have only one tiny comment about the interior stonework. Would it be worth lightening it a little? The stone outside is obviously going to be heavily weathered but the stone inside (eg the arch and window parts, etc) will be protected from the elements and would be a a lot less effected and more like it's original natural colour.
-
Phil,
It's a much easier system , and it allows you to try out idea's before fixing .
Jon,
It's a valid observation. It's something I've mused over (apart from poor lighting and photo's you can just about see the wall panels are slightly light (( the Chappell wall pic just about shows the differences))
There's a few reasons for not going any lighter than I have.
The darker stone frames and compliment the floor. Making them more prominent , lighter stone would mellow the flooring.
The darker stone helps maintain a solid shadow in the windows so that the prominent lighting source is the light coming through the opposite sides windows.
The third is a contrast between the walls and the detailing thats still to be added.
Mark.
-
Good points. I'm reminded of the Simpsons episode when they make a film in Springfield and for cows they use horses as "Cows don't look like cows on film".
What you have to do to make a model look good is not slavishly follow what it is like in the real world.
-
Here's a little more progress .Hopefully the pictures show how the prominence of the interior stone work diminishes. As the details are added.
There's a tipping point ,for a model remaining scenery and it becoming a diorama. So detail needs to be more of an inference than anything else. Otherwise it loose it's function.Which is why I'm chucking cereal packet around rather than sculpting the interior.
-
The interior details are outstanding TSG.
-
Oh God!
-
*Implies he's not sculpting the interior* ::) ;)
-
Cod I wouldn't go that far , there's still plenty of time for it to go rear end up. lol
Tom,
Welcome the mad house.
Matt.
lol I'm not .It's sticky stuff and recycling.
All right may be this next bit doesn't help my case. ;D
-
This is getting better and better each post! 8)
I had to laugh at that last picture lol
'Because Mrs Hargrove's enthusiasm greatly surpasses her talent, several parishioners have taken to more drastic measures to limit her impact on Sunday mass hymns.'
-
Great thread ànd I'm always astounded by what you can do with cardboard
-
Great stuff :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Is it a real church you are basing this on or just your imagination?
-
Q: is the detail work all done with a brush, or are there markers/ other graphic art techniques involved?
thanks
-
I expect that the church organ actually works.
-
This is wonderful!
-
Cheers Gents.
It's not technically a real church or even a total fabrication. More the mis remembered. Church's of school days and Church parades muddled into one.
Tom not entirely sure what asking . The only marker pen was used to lead the Windows. As for clever Graphic art techniques.I never use any(have a look some of the other Tales from the Tin shed threads it's blatantly obvious I don't know any and I just make things up as I go along)
Nothing clever about it easy to replicate . if anyone's interested I suppose I could add a little on how I bluff through . It's a really simple d'oh moment once you know how.(it's almost dry brushing)
Daeothar lol love it very in keeping with the whole Follies project.
No the but the pipe organ on the eather flyer you can make whistle ;)
Here's a couple of pictures that give a little perspective on the detailing(so far)
Just occurred to me I've not actually had a single figure any where near this project yet ::)
-
Great pictures!
-
Love the transparent bases - EXCELLENT Idea for interior furnishings! Now why didn't I think of that...
I expect that the church organ actually works.
You're thinking of JimBibbly. lol
-
It occurred to me when people use old CD's for scenery bases. What do they do with the cases? So I've just recycled the cd case to make the clear base's for the furniture.
Mark.
-
could you share how you cut that without it shattering? I've never had good luck with clear plastics - too brittle.
thanks
-
Always use a Brand new blade . Try not to press hard take your time . use a series of shallow light cuts (more scratch than cut.)
Some people use blue tack or paper decorating tape on the back of the ruler/cutting edge. To help reduce the chance of a ruler slipping when you cut.
Personally I don't cut all the way through the clear plastic .(around 70%-90% ) the apply a little presure to snap the last part of the cut.
That takes a little practice and confidence . I'm only using old cd case's so theres no additional pressure to get it right first time because I've had to layout for the clear plastic.
-
... only marker pen was used to lead the Windows. As for clever Graphic art techniques.I never use any(have a look some of the other Tales from the Tin shed threads it's blatantly obvious I don't know any and I just make things up as I go along)
Nothing clever about it easy to replicate . if anyone's interested I suppose I could add a little on how I bluff through . ...
well you're certainly getting some good results whatever the process. additional information regarding your methods would be very much appreciated.
-
Tom,
Just let me know what it is your interested in. I'll be happy to share my musings on the subject.
Mark.
-
Just caught up on this thread. Holy shit I can almost smell the incense and old old wood and feel the sense of some old bodies buried beneath the floor tiles.. :o
-
Wow, this extraordinarily good
-
I thought the exterior was good but these interior shots are amazingly good. You have the feel of an old English church just right!
-
I'm glad you all like it so far. There's still a fair bit to add to the interior . Nothing particularly fiddley just a pain due to the logistics of bring stuff into the house from the workshop. As nine times out of ten it turns into either a painting session with my son or a sculpting session.( been busy constructing an owl bear with him . I'd forgotten just how labour intensive and over thought every thing is when you start out.)
So finishing may have to wait till the new year . As I strongly suspect It will be more than frowned upon if I try and sack off the family Christmas and head out to my workshop.
Mark.
-
ABSOLUTELY AMAZED I AM!!!!....as always!...The details...OH THE DETAILS!!! :-* :-* :-*MDF never looked so good!
-
I hope that you survived choosing the workshop over family Christmas! lol lol Hopefully the young ones provided top cover because after all you are forwarding their projects as well. :D
Lon
-
Alas I've been a victim of socialy irresponsible town planning , and the in ability to act my age. Over the Christmas period. Which lead to boughts of mysterious illness and crushing head pains.(to My wife its hangovers and its self inflected so no sympathy. I on the other had say its witchcraft commissioned by her sister.)
Its just gone ten and the youngest has just come down stairs reading a Minecraft blockopedia. So no guessing what he's planning to do with his day.
I'm under orders to put shelves up in his room today . So I might be in the good books enough to be let out to play.
Mark.
-
I love what you’re doing with this.
Best ecclesiastical doll’s house ever! :D
Seriously - lovely attention to detail and already feels evocative of the real thing. Well done 8)
-
This is looking amazing. A far cry from its humble beginnings.
-
This has been such a great read. Very inspirational! Over to fleabay now so I can try copying your amazing work on something mdf.
-
Cheers Chaps,
I'm just trying to find enough free time to photograph the next stage.
Ulverston,
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Mark.
-
Why haven't I looked at this thread until now? I mean, by the cringe, this is an amazing bit of work Mark!