Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of the Big Battalions => Topic started by: vtsaogames on October 30, 2018, 02:34:16 PM
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Many Napoleonic rule sets allow a historical anomaly: the invincible high speed phalanx. The rules allow a column to move faster than a line and attack with some chance of success. So far, so good. Now pack several columns together cheek by jowl. This monster still moves faster than a line and has a monstrous impact in assault. Even though keeping this behemoth in good order would require as least as many halts to dress ranks as a single battalion in line. It would also make one juicy target.
My first experience with this was many years back playing the venerable War Games Research Group's 1750-1850 rules. The attack of a column against a line was finely calibrated. You really wanted the line softened up first or distracted by skirmish fire. But put a pair of columns together and the line just collapsed like a house of cards. It should be noted that Zayas' outnumbered Spanish regulars held off a massive formation at Albuera for two hours before their ammunition ran out and they were relieved by British regulars.
So, how many rules do you know of where such massive formations are treated properly and not allowed to speed around the table like battalion columns cutting their way through lesser sorts?
Or do you just depend on folks not using such tactics?
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The tactic is the natural gamer’s reaction to those sort of rules. In reality the column formations usually attacked with room on either side to change into line formation if they needed to ( such as when the enemy did not run away!)
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General d'Armee has solved this by giving penalties to "Massed infantry columns", and Black Powder 2 won't allow more than one unit per face.
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No more than one attacker per face sounds like the simplest solution.
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You could simply require that a column keep enough space around it to go into line.
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We did a simple fix for this problem. If a column is disordered by fire, it *must* deploy into line.
If there's not room, then the blocking units also become disordered.
Very soon you discover why this didn't happen historically; you end up with a bunch of disordered lines milling about in each others' way.
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We did a simple fix for this problem. If a column is disordered by fire, it *must* deploy into line.
If there's not room, then the blocking units also become disordered.
Very soon you discover why this didn't happen historically; you end up with a bunch of disordered lines milling about in each others' way.
That's nice, simple and elegant.
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That's nice, simple and elegant.
I second this! Cheers!
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Or stick to SYW, God's own horse-and-musket conflict. ;)
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Or stick to SYW, God's own horse-and-musket conflict. ;)
Except our crew has loads of Napoleonic figures, along with our Seven Years War (and ACW, ECW, Franco-Prussian, etc. etc.).
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I spoke as a partisan, not in any real expectation of being heeded.
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Just picked up 'Over the Hills'. It uses a rule that Infantry units in column at the end of a combat round that are still in combat must form line formation. If unable they get a fatigue hit.
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Of course, whether this is unhistorical or not depends on the ground and time scales of the rules themselves.
Aris K.
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not Lasalle, you move faster but shoot half and hit like a line
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not Lasalle, you move faster but shoot half and hit like a line
My issue is never with 1 column vs. a line, it's what the rules do when several columns are massed together against a single line.
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It would also depend on the rules type. eg an activation sort where an action is resolved each unit in turn would allow a succession of columns to attack a line but they would each do so individually. A more traditional rule set that has phases where everything moves, then everything fights would lead to the problem you mention.
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It would also depend on the rules type. eg an activation sort where an action is resolved each unit in turn would allow a succession of columns to attack a line but they would each do so individually. A more traditional rule set that has phases where everything moves, then everything fights would lead to the problem you mention.
If a brigade activates at a time, rather than individual battalions you could have the same problem.
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Beneath the Lily Banners (different period) has a simple mechanism for brigades where they are very important for the morale of the constituent regiments but cannot easily assist each other in close combat. This feels more like the reality of the situation as well for the massed Napoleonic columns...
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Excuse me but I probably miss something here. If you chose to put 2 or even 3 battalions in column, just to destroy a single enemy battalion in line, then ... do it! Why not? You will engage 3 valuable battalions [or units, whatever] against only ONE enemy unit and then you will be exposed to any enemy cavalry attacks and you risk losing 3 units at once! I can't see anything wrong here with any set of rules. As a matter of fact, my favourite set of rules is Volley & Bayonet. The smallest unit in this set is the brigade. So, I have no problems with huge battalions etc. But I think that sometimes gaming problems are in our minds and not on the table.
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Excuse me but I probably miss something here. If you chose to put 2 or even 3 battalions in column, just to destroy a single enemy battalion in line, then ... do it! Why not? You will engage 3 valuable battalions [or units, whatever] against only ONE enemy unit and then you will be exposed to any enemy cavalry attacks and you risk losing 3 units at once! I can't see anything wrong here with any set of rules. As a matter of fact, my favourite set of rules is Volley & Bayonet. The smallest unit in this set is the brigade. So, I have no problems with huge battalions etc. But I think that sometimes gaming problems are in our minds and not on the table.
I argue against un-historical results. I have not read of such a move working in actual battles of the period unless against troops who were seriously weakened before the attack or troops whose morale was dubious to begin with. Also, 2 or 3 battalion columns jammed together should not move faster than a line.
As an example, Soult's mass formation at Albuera (see Firepower) attacked Zayas' Spanish division. Outnumbered 2 - 1, the Spanish held for 2 hours until their ammunition was gone and they were relieved by British infantry. Zayas was probably the best Spanish division commander. Sometimes in other battles in Spain massive columns sent shaky Spanish troops flying. But sometimes the defenders stood their ground and held the attacks.
Battalion formations are below the level of representation in Volley and Bayonet. So it is immune to such gaming ploys.
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Battalion formations are below the level of representation in Volley and Bayonet. So it is immune to such gaming ploys.
yes, you are right. A monster-column should move slower than usual. I remember when using a battalion scale ruleset, some players used to form phalanxes using 2 or 3 battalions...[however not always successful]. Soult's attack in Albuera [even against Zaya's Spanish infantry] probably failed due to heavy infantry fire. Also, the ground in Portugal is rough and uneven. And finally, I think that Soult's dice in Albuera was pretty bad that day. He had a cunning plan but no dice at all... ;) ;)
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...I think that Soult's dice in Albuera was pretty bad that day. He had a cunning plan but no dice at all... ;) ;)
Soult's dice were bad, though the Vistula Legion lancers rolled boxcars. Beresford had no plan at all, at least not one worth discussing. The reserve division that won the battle for him was sent in against his orders, after his chief of staff suggested it to the division CO. The final verdict is Wellington's. "This won't do. Write me down a victory." Beresford was never given a major independent command again. It was Hill or nothing after that.
Beresford could train a good army out of unpromising material and command several divisions competently under the watchful eye of the Duke. But he didn't have the temperament for solo command. He didn't get a chance to grow into it after Albuera.
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Perhaps the problem is time. In wargames everything happens very fast, but when you read after action reports the one thing that strikes you is how much time took to organize a the troops for an attack, or maneuver them to fill a gap in the line, while the actual combat was over after just a relatively short period of time -except skirmish combat and bombardment, which could go on for hours-. However, in the wargaming table maneuvers are fast, while combat is comparatively slow, with assaults and counterattacks going on for several game-turns (at least, in my experience, of course). On the other hand, skirmish combat is of marginal importance in most rulesets.
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Perhaps the problem is time. In wargames everything happens very fast, but when you read after action reports the one thing that strikes you is how much time took to organize a the troops for an attack, or maneuver them to fill a gap in the line, while the actual combat was over after just a relatively short period of time -except skirmish combat and bombardment, which could go on for hours-. However, in the wargaming table maneuvers are fast, while combat is comparatively slow, with assaults and counterattacks going on for several game-turns (at least, in my experience, of course). On the other hand, skirmish combat is of marginal importance in most rulesets.
Interesting observation. Maybe the answer is to have multiple combat phases within a single turn. The board Game Rommel in the Desert had moves that went by with both sides resting up and accumulating supplies, punctuated by single turns that saw lots of action.
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Maybe the answer is to have multiple combat phases within a single turn. The board Game Rommel in the Desert had moves that went by with both sides resting up and accumulating supplies, punctuated by single turns that saw lots of action.
Can you imagine how complex and complicated the game will become? A board game is a different thing. You don't have to manage miniatures, terrain, table, and players at the same time. 8)