Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Andym on November 30, 2018, 12:25:30 PM
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I’m trying to make up some trees to help out in my brothers Imperial Assault game...
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94756.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=94756.0)
Ive seen a few threads kicking about about making big trees and I though I’d try myself.
I’ve decided to do two main types of trees. One will be large pine trees made from dowel that’ll be full trees, the others will be thicker, made from any kind of card board tube and I’ll only take them to the same height as the pines. This means the tops won’t be built.
The large pines are made with a 12” piece of pine dowel. I’ve drilled 3.5mm holes all the way up at random intervals. I’m using lengths of steel wire pushed through these holes and twisted to look like branches. The whole thing is then covered in PVA, then sawdust, then watered downed PVA sprayed on once it’s all dry to ‘seal’ the sawdust on. I then used sandy coloured long static and glued that on with PVA glue. I did this in a couple of layers. I used watered down PVA, sprayed on top of the last layer of static grass to build up the mass of the tree. The whole thing is (once fully dried) was sprayed black and painted. Long green static grass was then used as a last layer to look like pine needles.
The big trunks were capped at the top with light card then glued to a hardboard base. I then used a hot glue gun to give me the first layer of texture and roots. I also glued any pieces of spare wooden rod I had at the bottom of the trees to blue them out toward the base and hide the shape of the tube. Once this was all dry, I used ripped up tissue paper, stuck it on and painted PVA over the top of it. The trick here was to make sure no straight edges of the tissue were still left viable. This was done by pushing the tissue about with a big brush. Once that was all dried I hot glued some steel wire branches at various places ripped up some green scrubbing sponge to fill out the branches and used the same technique for the pine needles on the smaller trees.
Still got a lot of trees to make up!....... o_o o_o o_o
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181105_145913_zpsma6u3ucs.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181105_145913_zpsma6u3ucs.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181105_145850_zpspyeq0okp.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181105_145850_zpspyeq0okp.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181105_213655_zpszvtsomjb.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181105_213655_zpszvtsomjb.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181107_064538_zpsi14ozmnq.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181107_064538_zpsi14ozmnq.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181110_202303_zpsflxtaez0.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181110_202303_zpsflxtaez0.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181110_202359_zps2nosogax.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181110_202359_zps2nosogax.jpg.html)
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Cracking stuff mate 8)
Makes me want to re-visit mine and titivate them lol
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That is a precise tutorial, thank you very much!
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They look ace! ;D
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Can't see the wood for the trees yet, but you don't do things by half, that's for sure. :o
Also, I shudder to think of the woodchuck that would chuck that wood. ;)
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Nice job on the trees.
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Really great looking trees.
Can't wait to see the whole forest.
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Superb Andy 8)
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Brilliant.
But more worrying are the works of art shoved in the boxes in the background!
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Cracking stuff mate 8)
Makes me want to re-visit mine and titivate them lol
Me too (Had to google what titivate means just in case I was agreeing to something nefarious)
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Really nice start :-* :-*
Lon
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Me too (Had to google what titivate means just in case I was agreeing to something nefarious)
It’s a word not used often enough lol
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No just the right amount I think... enough to sound dodgy and intelligent.
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lol
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I've been known to chime in as an "unfan" of truncated trees - but with the level of texture on these AND the lower branches, they work. Helps also to have 'fleshed' out full size trees in the mix that just happen to be smaller trees. Makes the whole more convincing. Hope you will add many more "full" trees in amongst the giant trunks to keep up the 'convincingness' element.
Much of our hobby depends on optical 'delusions' and the "full" trees are critical to achieving your 'delusion' of a forest. lol Endor is some imaginative persons delusion after all.
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I would have said 'illusion' rather than 'delusion', as its somewhat negative connotations don't fit with such a cracking build. Lovely work Andy, I wouldn't mind having a go at the pine trees.
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Your not fooling me old matey flip.
A flat top makes it easier to balance an ewok village level does it not ;D
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Very nice trees Andy. 8)
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Cracking stuff mate 8)
Makes me want to re-visit mine and titivate them lol
Thanks mate! I was copying the big ones you made a while ago. Big Endor game for BLAM next year? ;)
That is a precise tutorial, thank you very much!
Your very welcome Michi. I always hope I can help someone out!
They look ace! ;D
Thanks buddy!
Can't see the wood for the trees yet, but you don't do things by half, that's for sure. :o
Also, I shudder to think of the woodchuck that would chuck that wood. ;)
Boom, boom, tish!
But how much wood could a wood chuck, chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood?
Nice job on the trees.
Ta much!
Really great looking trees.
Can't wait to see the whole forest.
The hardest part is going tfor be the groundwork! I’ve never been convinced by any modelling solutions I’ve seen so far.
Looking at pictures, there’s a lot of ferns on Endor. I’ve decided to use cheap Chinese palm trees and cut them up. Seems the only viable option for me, I don’t fancy spending a fortune on laser cut stuff or brass etch stuff! :o
Superb Andy 8)
Cheers mate!
Brilliant.
But more worrying are the works of art shoved in the boxes in the background!
Thanks! My whole house is in turmoil just now. I can’t find much time or space to do anything! :'(
Me too (Had to google what titivate means just in case I was agreeing to something nefarious)
lol lol lol
Really nice start :-* :-*
Lon
Cheers!
I've been known to chime in as an "unfan" of truncated trees - but with the level of texture on these AND the lower branches, they work. Helps also to have 'fleshed' out full size trees in the mix that just happen to be smaller trees. Makes the whole more convincing. Hope you will add many more "full" trees in amongst the giant trunks to keep up the 'convincingness' element.
Much of our hobby depends on optical 'delusions' and the "full" trees are critical to achieving your 'delusion' of a forest. lol Endor is some imaginative persons delusion after all.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I fancied making trees big enough to be able hide ATSTs or even ATATs! ;)
I would have said 'illusion' rather than 'delusion', as its somewhat negative connotations don't fit with such a cracking build. Lovely work Andy, I wouldn't mind having a go at the pine trees.
Thanks for the support bud! The pine trees are a lot of work. It’s quite time consuming doing the wire branches, but I think it’ll be worth it. My thinking is that these trees are ‘true scale’.
Your not fooling me old matey flip.
A flat top makes it easier to balance an ewok village level does it not ;D
You’ve caught me out there! ;)
Very nice trees Andy. 8)
Ta!
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Very Nice! Those Chinese palm trees work well as ferns.
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Top work, mate.
8) 8)
I have a ridiculous amount of stuff to make a jungle at some point but I can see myself chucking in a few big lads as well now...
;)
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Very Nice! Those Chinese palm trees work well as ferns.
Hopefully they will. Those ones aren’t stuck down, I was just placing a couple of spare ones to see if they’d ‘fit’. When it comes to it, I’ll chop them up to look more like ferns and less like palm trees someone has put down!
Top work, mate.
8) 8)
I have a ridiculous amount of stuff to make a jungle at some point but I can see myself chucking in a few big lads as well now...
;)
I’ve started collecting ALL cardboard tubes I can get. Now that’s ridiculous!
You’ll need to start making little hairy dudes now mate! Ewoks are hard that get for Star Wars.
Btw the dowel for the pine trees comes from B&Q(other diy stores are available! ;))
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You make the ewok village and I'll do you some ewoks you can cast.
Mark.
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Huh - I had never thought to use hot glue for the texture, even though I was using to mount the trees and draw roots...
Wonderful! These are lovely, by the way, and I am going to thoroughly steal ideas for my next set of them.
lol lol
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Thanks mate! I was copying the big ones you made a while ago. Big Endor game for BLAM next year? ;)
Ooo, I think that could be arranged :)
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Steal away! ;)
So I've managed to to get the first 2 bases done. I've tried to make the bases busy with veg. I think I might need more. I'm also not sure I'm convinced with the foilage on the big trees.... :?
Cheap trick: I've found using dried grass roots from my back garden perfect for vines and the small, unadorned branches of the pine tree.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110616_zpsbjvahdb9.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110616_zpsbjvahdb9.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110739_zps5ujoef4q.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110739_zps5ujoef4q.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110625_zpsx3iyv9pj.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110625_zpsx3iyv9pj.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110652_zpsykmbspkf.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110652_zpsykmbspkf.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110813_zps8ax24hq9.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110813_zps8ax24hq9.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110658_zpsghxcig2g.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110658_zpsghxcig2g.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110707_zpsjufyqopk.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110707_zpsjufyqopk.jpg.html)
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110720_zpsnn30f9tp.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20181208_110720_zpsnn30f9tp.jpg.html)
Edit: I've changed the pictures a bit. I was getting better light, later on.
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Lovely stuff fella 8)
I think the issue with the large tree foliage is that it's a different type to the smaller tree one?
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That looks perfectly fine to me, mate.
Different trees have different leaves.
Simples.
8) 8)
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You've buggered the sence of scale . That's what's doing your head in.You've excelled at the foliage and its pretty clear that your focus / concern was getting good foliage.
On the giant red wood and pine. Base two things are working against you. The pine is virtually the same height so the visual que for the implied height of the missing part of the red wood is lost .
The second is the branches the come too low down the trunk .killing the height of the red wood and making it feel stumpy especially given the height and shape of the tree next to it (it tapers to a point making feel even taller where as you red wood has the same silhouette its entire length.)
There's a couple of things you could do easily . Remove some of the lower branches and move them slightly heighier.Also reduce the height of the pine.
Personally(I know your more than capable of it.) I'd reduce the circumference of the red wood at the top just a little so theres a slight tapering of the trunk. Which will make them seem taller.Also loose the flat tops have a more angular top with sections raised higher than the rest ( almost a series of spires/ snapped stick look to emply the tree is taller at the moment. Its got a tall stump feel.)Even easier given that your using a glue gun for texturing.
Your undergrowth and pine tree and the foliage on the red wood are great .You need to tweak the red woods at the moment they still have a cardboard tube feel about them. The ones you've made so far would work absolutely fine as supports for the ewok village.
I'd save the redesign for new trees (except I'd still remove the odd lower branch .)
Mark.
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Hadn't noticed you had finished these, stunning :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
What colour are you using for the trunks, it looks quite red?
I got some chinese palm trees through just trying to work out how to use them
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I love the forest floor- great mix of mud, dead leaves and greenery.
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Wow, they're huge!
What did you do for your leaf litter on the floor? Is it a leaf punch or just general garden detritus?
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Brilliant work Andy! Would go very nicely with my Loch board (stuck on top a cupboard in the garage...).
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I'd leave the ground cover as is. As to scale, pine trees are generally less than one hundred feet tall - though certain species can grow taller under really good conditions. Redwood trees can tower to 350' tall and more.
Living in California and being an avid backpacker, I've been up close and personal to many of these trees. In a large mass you don't see much variation but when you get up close you can see it. The real 'tell' between species is the nature of the bark and then their cones and needle formation. Redwood, pine, fir, spruce, cedar, etc. Just wish I was better at remembering which was which - and then there is the variation within each since, for instance, there are many different varieties of pine (only two type of redwood in California, both huge).
The real problem I see is your bases seem to be warping and that is unfortunate because the models are otherwise quite nice. Easiest game table solution is a couple bags of lichen, a couple of colors, to hide the warping.
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Lovely stuff fella 8)
I think the issue with the large tree foliage is that it's a different type to the smaller tree one?
Should they all BE the same? I was trying to make some variation between the trees. I thought it might look too same-y, same-y.
That looks perfectly fine to me, mate.
Different trees have different leaves.
Simples.
8) 8)
Yeah, that was my thought too, buddy.
On the giant red wood and pine. Base two things are working against you. The pine is virtually the same height so the visual que for the implied height of the missing part of the red wood is lost .
The second is the branches the come too low down the trunk .killing the height of the red wood and making it feel stumpy especially given the height and shape of the tree next to it (it tapers to a point making feel even taller where as you red wood has the same silhouette its entire length.)
There's a couple of things you could do easily . Remove some of the lower branches and move them slightly heighier.Also reduce the height of the pine.
Personally(I know your more than capable of it.) I'd reduce the circumference of the red wood at the top just a little so theres a slight tapering of the trunk. Which will make them seem taller.Also loose the flat tops have a more angular top with sections raised higher than the rest ( almost a series of spires/ snapped stick look to emply the tree is taller at the moment. Its got a tall stump feel.)Even easier given that your using a glue gun for texturing.
Your undergrowth and pine tree and the foliage on the red wood are great .You need to tweak the red woods at the moment they still have a cardboard tube feel about them. The ones you've made so far would work absolutely fine as supports for the ewok village.
I'd save the redesign for new trees (except I'd still remove the odd lower branch .)
Mark.
I was going by these pics I found. They look like cardboard tubes to me.....and they are the ‘real’ thing.
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/F997FE16-5177-4612-8BB8-B1132B7CDB04_zpslbszk4ve.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F997FE16-5177-4612-8BB8-B1132B7CDB04_zpslbszk4ve.jpg.html)
Would more branches work? I could do as you say and move the existing ones up, but what if I put bigger ones lower down? Taper them toward the top? They might also be too sparse just now? That might help with the shape too?
I quite like the size of the smaller pine. When we get to play and brothers ATST stands beside it, I think it’ll look the part.
Hadn't noticed you had finished these, stunning :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
What colour are you using for the trunks, it looks quite red?
I got some chinese palm trees through just trying to work out how to use them
All cheap pound paints bought from Poundland and an old tester pot for highlights....
(http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a605/andymac2105/Mobile%20Uploads/1C51E45A-9FB2-4464-AC40-2A9B20E66814_zpscctoc8mg.jpg~original) (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/andymac2105/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1C51E45A-9FB2-4464-AC40-2A9B20E66814_zpscctoc8mg.jpg.html)
I just cut the palms i had up into single leaves and hot-glue gunned them down.
I love the forest floor- great mix of mud, dead leaves and greenery.
Thanks Codsticker!
Wow, they're huge!
What did you do for your leaf litter on the floor? Is it a leaf punch or just general garden detritus?
Trying to get the sense of scale of Endor mate. I figure it needs big trees.
Brilliant work Andy! Would go very nicely with my Loch board (stuck on top a cupboard in the garage...).
How can such a beautiful piece languish in a garage! :o
I'd leave the ground cover as is. As to scale, pine trees are generally less than one hundred feet tall - though certain species can grow taller under really good conditions. Redwood trees can tower to 350' tall and more.
Living in California and being an avid backpacker, I've been up close and personal to many of these trees. In a large mass you don't see much variation but when you get up close you can see it. The real 'tell' between species is the nature of the bark and then their cones and needle formation. Redwood, pine, fir, spruce, cedar, etc. Just wish I was better at remembering which was which - and then there is the variation within each since, for instance, there are many different varieties of pine (only two type of redwood in California, both huge).
The real problem I see is your bases seem to be warping and that is unfortunate because the models are otherwise quite nice. Easiest game table solution is a couple bags of lichen, a couple of colors, to hide the warping.
Scale wise, I was thinking a guy is about 6feet and a model is just over an inch(inch and a half?), so my smaller pine is 12 inches so by my bad maths, that should put it about a 50 foot scale tree.
In your experience then, should all my foliage look roughly the same?
Yeah, the base warping is a pain in the arse! My house is arse for elbow just now, so I used what I had to hand to cover the base....tissue paper cover with PVA as opposed to my normal method....polyfilla. The tissue and PVA seem to have shrunk and pull the hardboard base up! :'(
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I wouldnt worry about the base too much.
Just put it on a slightly bigger one and fill the gap.
;)
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"In your experience then, should all my foliage look roughly the same?" :o
Heavens, no. At your scale figures (and people) are close enough to those trees to notice the difference between trees, including variations in foliage colors. Sure, the foliage will all be green (or brown if dead or dying, too much of that in our forests, alas) but the greens will vary somewhat. In spring, there are distinct variations in lighter colored green new growth and the older darker foliage.
I'm going to have three types of evergreens in my 15 mm forest all using the same model tree set but I'm going to paint some sets with an overspray of a lighter green and other sets I'm going to overspray with a darker green. And the ones I've already got based are as they come out of the box. 36 light, 72 medium, and 36 dark green is the goal - but I need five more sets to realize that goal (9 trees to a set, by the way).
When you see group shots of such forests, they seem to all be the same color (and many of them are if they are the same variety of the same species) but in most photos if you look close enough you will see variations in colors because often times species are intermixed.