Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Great War => Topic started by: Gribb on December 06, 2018, 07:23:57 PM
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Commissioning miniatures from time to time its interesting to hear input not only on uniform information but also poses(highly appreciated).
With a lot of different pose out there, it made me ponder which poses are most popular with gamers/collectors(28mm scale).
Is it Charging, Advancing slowly, prone, Running with rifle at trail, Skirmishing?etc Taking cover? etc.
Any sort of poses or units you miss that are not done?
Looking forward to hear Your opinions. Thank you.
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I bet gamers would be more keen on things like men firing, manning the machine guns, charging, running...
While collectors might be more interested in casualties, men taking cover, men cowering... Given what a bloody awful mess that war was.
Curious to hear others' thoughts
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Yes, that makes sense. But I do think adding some casualties, men taking cover and such livens up the gaming table among more standard figures. It adds more character. Your input is appreaciated. Thank you.
As for gamers liking firing poses.
What about prone British infantry? I typically envision them on the defence pouring fire into the German masses:
(https://i.imgur.com/m6LxTzo.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/GavF6Pd.png)
Or would there be more interest in standing/kneeling firing poses for the British?
Besides charging it seems for running infantry it would seem most sense to carry the rifle at the trail:
(https://i.imgur.com/LlPNcR4.jpg)
Look forward to hear more opinions :)
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Since I'm more collectors than players, I first find all poses interesting.
As a potential player, I like poses similar to those of Mutton Chops (Paul Hicks). Firing and advancing. Racing and lying on the ground firing I find then on the gaming table not so exciting.
It is a pity the Great War Miniatures has agreed on a few repetitive poses. The British except, there are very beautiful characterful minis. But the French and Belgians are a bit bored, unfortunately.
like small scenes like a radio station or a telecommunication department with telephone or pigeons. A field kitchen (gulasch kanone) is definitely an eyecatcher, though pointless for the game. ;)
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Carrying the rifle at the trail was a feature of bounding, rather than charging. The latter was associated with fixed bayonets, with the rifle held appropriately. Bounding was the process of moving to a new firing position or from one position to another as part of 'fire and manoeuvre'. Still a useful pose from a modelling perspective.
Robert
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Not a Great war gamer (lured in by the title), but lots of WW2/Modern players seem to dislike lying/prone fring poses based on assorted comments around the web (may just be a vocal minority?). I think this is partly down to the need for different basing and the larger 'foot print' when it comes to manoeuvring around tables. Not so much a 1914 issue, but how would prone figures fit into the various commercial trench systems on the market?
From a general skirmish gaming perspective, I like a nice mix of firing (including reloading) and moving (including taking cover whilst stood or kneeling) poses. There is scope for 'standing having a fag' poses, but these folks always seem to get left in the box for use as sentries unless I absolutely need to use all my figures to make up numbers...
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I like fast skirmishing poses that I feel create the dynamic atmosphere on both table and colletction. While prone /taking covermay not be the most exciting poses to some it is certainly very realistic for the period.
The mutton chop 1914 are very beautiful sculpted, but unlike you I do not like so much the advancing poses, but prefer the skirmishing/firing ones they offer.
Beautiful sculpted and a joy to paint, but a lot of the advancing packs does not really look right to me for a ww1 setting. Slow walking upright while advancing/charging seem a bit anachronistic and wooden in stature.
It all comes down to what you what to represent and prefer I like the advancing poses of gwm better than Mutton Chop. So more of a racing and firing preference for me. See some of Your point on the French and particularly the Belgians.
@monk2002uk
Yes, it was more of an advancing/bounding than charging position. I mean that similar dynamic running poses could be used for both charging and at the trail. I think too it would look quite good as well as have charging poses. It would likely be more realistic to have a significant addition of this pose than just a bunch in charging pose.
@ v_lazy_dragon
I see the point but its all what you want to represent. And what gamers are willing to adjust for. A lot has happened in the last 10-15 years in terms of sculpting evolution in both face variety and poses. Many manufacturers go to great lenghts to get as much variety in poses as possible. The plastic set revolution from like Victrix and Perry reflects this
They could easily do in shallow ditches/trenches that wer improvized during early 1914 for temporary defensive positions,
On board with the mix of firing and moving(some kneeling and taking cover).
Thanks for the input guys :)
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How about a dismounted cavalryman firing over his dead horset?
(https://i.imgur.com/EGwJ4fa.jpg)
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Personally, I dislike firing figures. Limits the situation in which they are being used.
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Personally, I dislike firing figures. Limits the situation in which they are being used.
Depends.
If combining firing and running poses it can create quite a dynamical look and situation for them to be used. They have the potentia lf both firing in defence or firing when advancing the enemy on the offensive.
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Depends.
If combining firing and running poses it can create quite a dynamical look and situation for them to be used. They have the potentia lf both firing in defence or firing when advancing the enemy on the offensive.
I quite like the firing and maneuver poses. Some loading and firing in various positions and cautiously advancing. Using some scenics for them on a base helps too.
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Standing at the ready, advancing, skirmishing, loading - any general purpose / utility kinda pose in other words.
I avoid specific poses like standing firing, kneeling firing, lying prone firing as far as possible.
This is not for 1914 specifically, but for all wargames armies, period.
The only exception being, that I do quite like kneeling Pathans, sneakily sniping from sangars... I’ve got a fair few of those :)
Just personal preference I guess. But I’ve felt exactly the same way since my first box of Airfix 1/72 soldiers, the best part of half a century ago! So it’s a pretty deeply ingrained preference / prejudice.
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How about a dismounted cavalryman firing over his dead horse?
The horse will be alive ;-). This was a standard tactic used by the Russian cavalry. I am not aware of any other major nation that taught cavalry horses to do this.
Robert
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@ Helen: Yes, I think they are quite versatile posest that add well to a range.
@CaptainBlood: Well, there is a wide variety of preference for poses. Its a good thing the increasing variety in poses allows to cater to different tastes.
@mok2002uk:
But if being shot down it would not seem unlikely for any cavalryman to take cover behind the horse? At least for the first shot or finding better cover.
But if getting Your horse shot in an open area with little cover it makes sense to take cover behind the dead horse.
Just like this soldier used a dead comrade for human shield:
(https://i.imgur.com/L8LC3A0.jpg)
Thanks for the info. Just got some inspiration from this picture of a British cavalryman:
(https://i.imgur.com/1uof1P4.jpg)
A scout from The Carabiniers, 6th Dragoon Guards, cavalry regiment of the British Army firing from behind his horse. From the book South Africa and the Transvaal War by Louis Creswicke, published 1900.
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I fully agree with Capt. Blood. Firing figures look rather silly if the unit is in reserve/marching to the field, or otherwise behind the foremost front line. I also prefer general poses such as advancing at the ready, etc.
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I wish there were duplicate mortar and HMG figures actually carrying their weapons to represent when the team is moving. It never looks right them moving in firing/operating positions.
Don’t get me started on there only being early War British artillery limbers being available 😳
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Advancing poses definitely seem to be all around liked and versatile. Some great input in this thread. It is very hard to create perfect poses that fit every situation. Front line, reserve,.. Unless soldier are provided with separate arms to be adjusted for the situation. When in reserve change to advancing arms, when in front to firing, etc.
Its looks no more silly than having 18th/19th century unit marching shoulder arms while performing an assault?
Or having linear firefights with both standing looking at each other like on parade with musket shouldered?
Does not work for skirmishing, firing line and close combat.
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I think the big questions are these:
- What scale are you playing on?
- Are you basing individually or in groups
From my own personal experience, I gravitate toward marching poses/shouldered arms for a unit en masse with multiple figures per base. Napoleonics, American Civil War, Seven Years War, etc. Part of it is the smaller footprint, ease of storage and basing, but also it looks better moving around the battlefield. Plus the ease of moving units to contact, which is why I dislike any pike pose other than straight up.
For skirmish games, however, I do not like the shouldered arms/marching pose. It frankly looks rather silly when you've got figures spread out. For that, I prefer firing poses, kneeling poses, and especially reloading poses (not enough of those).
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@ Rob Herrick
Good points. Both scale and what sort of period/engagement you want to depict. There are both big battles and smaller skirmishes of interest.
I am kind of curious as to what most gamers leviate towards. And as seen its quite varied what gamers/collectors want to collect. Advancing with musket levelled/at the porte seems much more sensible. Both as advancing towards the frontline and engaging the enemy. While shoulder arms is more wooden and limited.
Imagining two armies of marching/shoulder vs advancing levelled musket no matter were they would be placed reserve or front I think the levelled poses would look best and more lively.
The shoulder arms musket do look good on the table, but I would rate firing/reloading as just as important.
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Its looks no more silly than having 18th/19th century unit marching shoulder arms while performing an assault?
Or having linear firefights with both standing looking at each other like on parade with musket shouldered?
I thought you wanted feedback on Great War poses not 18th/19th century? The point is you can chose advancing or firing poses for infantry depending on your preference. For heavy weapons crews there isn't usually a choice other than them operating the weapon.
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I thought you wanted feedback on Great War poses not 18th/19th century? The point is you can chose advancing or firing poses for infantry depending on your preference. For heavy weapons crews there isn't usually a choice other than them operating the weapon.
I do. While different eras I think the point stands for the matter on poses and usage. It could be applied too 1914 with casual/walking with rifle levelled. My personal opinion is that post 1870 variety of poses would be relevant and realistic due to the changing nature of warfare. With every infantryman now expected to act as a skirmisher.
Even as reserves I think fire and movement works well due to the dynamic tactics and fast paced warfare. Aiming rifle for for fire can suit in a situation when the enemy is believed to be closed by. As I've read the combat of 1914 was chaotic, with it being difficult to actually locate were the enemy was.
Agreed on the heavy weapon crews.
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For me 1914 is a big period and I wish there were more British firing poses - prone , behind cover and horses are all on my wish list.
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For me 1914 is a big period and I wish there were more British firing poses - prone , behind cover and horses are all on my wish list.
Thats great to hear. British skirmishing poses are planned for.
And I think Prone firing position would be a very suitable addition to the 1914 BEF.
It would also depend on whether or not there is a real demand for such a pose.
What is Your opinion on reloading poses?
And about headpacks and those into that:
There are two upcoming head packs for conversion of 1914 British and German(pickelhaubes, did wonder about adding some with fieldmutze). 15 heads in each pack. The French already have Kepi and Zouave packs released.
Does anyone have any suggestions of units that should be done?
Fusilier Marines, German Jagers, Indians, Senegalaise Tiralleurs, Scottish Highlanders, ..?
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Yes, reloading would be great. Head swapping is good too.
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How about casualty poses? There have been some releases by gwm of British and German so far. In such a bloody conflict a table hould have quite a few casualties around. A ww1 gaming table with lots of casualties would look impressive. Falling wounded, crawling, lying dead,..
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I like them and use them as markers during my games. Rather than tokens or counters I use casualty figures because they look better and it’s easy to see what current status applies to a until plus they add to the drama of a scene. . 😬
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How is the interest in the Austrian-Hungarian army? Besides a few packs available on Brigade Games they have been neglected by manufacturers. They were a rather big player in the east(even if a poor one). And participated in many large actions against both Serbs and Russians.
While the infantry uniforms were not that elaborate(though cool pike-grey blue color) their cavalry units were still wearing pretty dashing uniforms at the start of the war.
How about a Austrian cavalry sculpt? They participated in the epic battle of Galicia and would provide color and dash to the table.
(https://i.imgur.com/dKGpawT.jpg)
(http://www.metropostcard.com/picswar-7c/ww1-c-192-hussars.jpg.jpg)
(https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/nfgn.jpg?w=584&h=406)
"Pack-horse of a cavalry machine gun detachment; members of these and the telegraph detachments were the only cavalry troops to wear the pike-grey field uniform in 1914. The machine gun is the standard Schwarzlose M07/12; the tripod Is attached on the far side of the pack saddle, and note ammunition boxes for the 250-round belts on top. Infantry MG sections used pack mules."
Source: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/11/20/austro-hungarian-cavalry-wwi/ (https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2015/11/20/austro-hungarian-cavalry-wwi/)
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I tend to do late war (1916 on), and have some of the Brigade Games packs (and but for the absence of the stahlhelm, they can be painted up as later war - in fact, supply was so bad for the Austro-Hungarians that you could still find some troops in pike-grey instead of grey-green right to the end of the war). I would have some interest in cavalry troopers wearing the cap.
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think Austria is wrongly underrepresented in wargaming. Against Russia, in Galicia or on the Isonzo River, the Austrian soldiers had bravely defeated.
I would be glad if we could buy the brigade games Austrians in Europe. And of course, the cavalry is an eye-catcher on the battlefield.
So I would be there.
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Austro-Hungarian artillery crew are also lacking. Brigade Games do a mountain howitzer but no crew for it.
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Its sort of surprising the lack of attention given to the Austro-Hungarians. I believe a range of them would have quite the potential. Appearance wise they provide dash, performance wise not so much. But that has not stopped gamers/collectors purchasing armies in different eras(cough napoleonics).
Brigade Games have a lot if cool stuff on their site like their (limited) packs of Austrians, but the shipping rate from USA is a killer. Wish more of their packs were available on this side of the pond.
I tink a main obstacle has been the lack of interets in the frontiers they fought. And when people do east its usually Germany vs Russia. Affairs such as Galicia is epical as Tannenberg, but have been given less attention.
A game of a German and Austrian-Hungarian forces pitted against the Russian bear would be quite a show.
Especially if the cavalry is present ;D
If anyone is interested in co-operating on commissioning Austrian-Hungarians or other Please send me a PM.
Steve Barber does the sculpting. A infantry sculpt is 165£.
By the way, I have heard rumors of London Scottish Highlanders are in progress.;)
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A game of a German and Austrian-Hungarian forces pitted against the Russian bear would be quite a show.
Especially if the cavalry is present ;D
See the link below to a game I had a few months ago. Mostly against my friends Germans but you just about make out some Austro-Hungarians in the first few photos. Sorry no cavalry.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111790.0
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See the link below to a game I had a few months ago. Mostly against my friends Germans but you just about make out some Austro-Hungarians in the first few photos. Sorry no cavalry.
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=111790.0
Thats a great layout. Love the terrain. Looks like good game. No cavalry but cool looking game still.
Thanks for sharing :)
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How about poses of soldiers of opposing sides interacting friendly or non-combat situations. Inspired by both the Christmas truce and this clip from They shall not grow old:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUReYO2n06w&t=163s
Exchanging headgear, sharing a drink, talking, etc. (1:45-1:50 and 2:50).
Some fine examples by various manufacturers:
Dixon Miniatures:
(http://www.dixon-minis.com/images/christmas%20truce%201914b%20006.jpg)
Michigan Toy Soldiers:
(https://www.michtoy.com/michtoy2013/products/35045-1.jpg)
Battlefront Miniatures:
(https://resources.nobleknight.com/Catalog/Images/240/240/0/1/0/BFMWIM03.jpg)
Tommy's War:
(https://tommyswar.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/truce_1-300x600.jpg)
(http://)
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Prone figures are not something I would want more of...But charging :-*
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Prone figures are not something I would want more of...But charging :-*
Each to their own taste. I think prone figures are quite useful to depict more modern combat when taking cover is essential.
A prone line of British infantrymen awaiting the German masses is quite typical 1914 scene in my opinion.
As for charging figures there will be more of that ;)
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"Charley's War" by Pat Mills and Joe Colquhoun, has some very memorable characters. Some of which seem wonderful options for conversions. Bill Tozer and Smith 70 to name but two.
And I have to agree, such figures give character to a collection or tabletop army. :D
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As ever, I also totally missed to actually make my point. German soldiers in greatcoats, or a mix of gear would be nice. Fixed bayonets perhaps, seeing as the situation in the trenches left some to go for comfort over uniformity. Perhaps even a few rag tag units like snipers covered in plants or other forms of camouflage like the first ghilie's and such.
But that is only my opinion of course!
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As ever, I also totally missed to actually make my point. German soldiers in greatcoats, or a mix of gear would be nice. Fixed bayonets perhaps, seeing as the situation in the trenches left some to go for comfort over uniformity. Perhaps even a few rag tag units like snipers covered in plants or other forms of camouflage like the first ghilie's and such.
But that is only my opinion of course!
Thanks for the input. These are great suggestions actually, but for a bit later period.
This range is geared towards the early months of 1914 before it bogged down to trench warfare in the west. With cavalry coming up soon. Still, consealed snipers can applied by using the prone infantry and cover them with terrain plants. There will also be added a headpack of 15 individual heads with the pickelhaube. Plans for adding another with the fieldmutze with some of the different variants. A lot including officers seemed to have preferred this cap so it seems a natural addition.
Next upcoming infantry(UK) poses will have one kneeling firing and the other advancing with rifle at trail.
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Oh fancy that! I'll keep an eye out for the Pickelhaube packs! :o
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Something that only rarely gets any attention are Hqs vignettes. At this scale perhaps something depicting a battalion-level Hqs.
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Something that only rarely gets any attention are Hqs vignettes. At this scale perhaps something depicting a battalion-level Hqs.
Good idea :) Something like the Great war command poses?
What do you think about enthusiastic poses depicting the strained relationship between early war British and French command arguing?
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Hrm, I wouldn't mind a british Officer shouting banter or wildly gesturing. Uhlans could maybe also work, seeing as the poses -that- are around all look a bit chunky in my opinion.
Where would your figures be available, Gribb?
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Hrm, I wouldn't mind a british Officer shouting banter or wildly gesturing. Uhlans could maybe also work, seeing as the poses -that- are around all look a bit chunky in my opinion.
Where would your figures be available, Gribb?
A British officer shouting banter or wildly gesturing should add some character, noted ;)
Agreed. Uhlans are coming along the way. First the mounted Hussars will be released, then are plans for dismounted skirmishers. There are plans for both Uhlans and Cuirassiers to follow these afterwards.
The range is available here:
https://www.stevebarbermodels.com/107--world-war-one
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A British officer arguing with a French one (perhaps with an exasperated junior officer consulting a map while his seniors argue) could be interesting.
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Austro Hungarians, Serbs and more choice for Russians (particularly Cavalry and Artillery with limbers etc).
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Austro Hungarians, Serbs and more choice for Russians (particularly Cavalry and Artillery with limbers etc).
Agreed for the most part, but I believe more Russian infantry would be a nice asset. Are they available on the old world side of the pond? And at that sculpting quality up to date that could look natural on a gaming table with "modern" German sculpts like GWM and especially Mutton Chop? While there are plenty of variety out there, the quality is debatable. And some ranges are quite dated in quality and anatomy making them look very out of place on a gaming table Imo.
Siberia Miniatures have some nice Russians sculpts, but suffers from a limitation in poses(and customer service). Its more of a hobby enterprise for the owner and sculptor.
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I don't know whether this has been mentioned since I last looked but how about British engineering troops in the process of blowing a bridge, laying charges or carrying supplies?
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How would these figures scale out with the Renegade lines? I have just finished repainting the early French starter set (2 HMG's, 18 troops and 2 Officers) and would like to fill the unit out more. I just received some of the Artizan Legionnaires without neck protectors who are taller but slimmer than the Renegade figures. I suspect GWM would be smaller as well.
Edit, I just read the sticky about available figures. The GWM sound like a good option.
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How would these figures scale out with the Renegade lines? I have just finished repainting the early French starter set (2 HMG's, 18 troops and 2 Officers) and would like to fill the unit out more. I just received some of the Artizan Legionnaires without neck protectors who are taller but slimmer than the Renegade figures. I suspect GWM would be smaller as well.
Edit, I just read the sticky about available figures. The GWM sound like a good option.
My apologies for late answer.
They would Imo suit as well with the Renegade as GWM. Personally I would not mix them with neither GWM, Steve Barber nor Mutton Chop due to the bulkiness and peculiar sculpting style of the Renegade figures. And I have all these to compare with.
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A bit late to the ‘pose’ discussion but I do have a useable 1914 collection of Renegade French and Germans and would welcome a far greater variety of poses. For smaller scale skirmish actions I’d be tempted to have several options for each figure so that the model of the tabletop can be advancing, then swapped for a kneeling firing figure as it approaches the stone wall, then swapped for a running figure as it leaps the wall and runs to the next cover and so on (OCD, what OCD?).
Casualties - yes please, also fleeing figures abandoning equipment are always useful as ‘shock’ or ‘fleeing’ markers as well as for the general story-telling element above.
For 1914, NCO’s/officers directing traffic, troops carrying supplies/loading lorries or looting shops, medical staff with dressed wounded would all be great as would HQ elements.
There’s probably a list of poses emerging in this thread that could be used across any range. While I can see a standard advancing pose works well for large army level battles, the sort of smaller scale action typified by the Lardy rulesets (for example) really cry out for as wide a variety of poses as possible.
Of course, I’ve disregarded any ‘profitability’ issues in this wish list :)
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A bit late to the ‘pose’ discussion but I do have a useable 1914 collection of Renegade French and Germans and would welcome a far greater variety of poses. For smaller scale skirmish actions I’d be tempted to have several options for each figure so that the model of the tabletop can be advancing, then swapped for a kneeling firing figure as it approaches the stone wall, then swapped for a running figure as it leaps the wall and runs to the next cover and so on (OCD, what OCD?).
Casualties - yes please, also fleeing figures abandoning equipment are always useful as ‘shock’ or ‘fleeing’ markers as well as for the general story-telling element above.
For 1914, NCO’s/officers directing traffic, troops carrying supplies/loading lorries or looting shops, medical staff with dressed wounded would all be great as would HQ elements.
There’s probably a list of poses emerging in this thread that could be used across any range. While I can see a standard advancing pose works well for large army level battles, the sort of smaller scale action typified by the Lardy rulesets (for example) really cry out for as wide a variety of poses as possible.
Of course, I’ve disregarded any ‘profitability’ issues in this wish list :)
A lot of interesting suggestions, Thanks for the input :)
Fleeing figures would indeed add to the gaming atmosphere. A useful marker as much as casualties.
Troops carrying supplies would be useful too.
Masses of figures in limited advancing poses is more useful for earlier eras with troops in formations. I agree that in later periods like this it calls for more variety in troops to more truly recreate the nature of the warfare. Fire and advance seems to be the main poses called for.
For a new upcoming unit the two initial poses are kneeling firing and running at the trail.
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Thanks for the reply Gribb. Too late for not using my Renegade figures as I have had them for over 15 years. I received some Great War Figures which vary in height quite a bit so the Artizan are a better mix. They may need a bit of Greenstuff to bulk them out to mix in the same squads but in different squads are good enough.
I'm not sure how big my mate wants to go with this so I may have enough foot figures already and just need some Cavalry.
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There are some prone/taking cover poses of French and Germans available that I think suit skirmishing scenarios you mention.
https://www.stevebarbermodels.com/107--28mm-world-war-one
As for Cavalry a new unit of charging German Hussars are hopefully released later this summer. Two variants with separate heads and an option to go for lance or sword.
(https://i.imgur.com/pYQrNzS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wKVXnv3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7BPkzv0.jpg)
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There are some prone/taking cover poses of French and Germans available that I think suit skirmishing scenarios you mention.
https://www.stevebarbermodels.com/107--28mm-world-war-one
As for Cavalry a new unit of charging German Hussars are hopefully released later this summer. Two variants with separate heads and an option to go for lance or sword.
(https://i.imgur.com/pYQrNzS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/wKVXnv3.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7BPkzv0.jpg)
Even with the Brunswicker Skull! :o
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Even with the Brunswicker Skull! :o
Aye, should be quite a sight ;)
There will also be another head version with full cloth cover for those who prefer that.