Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Captain Blood on December 16, 2018, 12:05:03 PM
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https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?products_id=3967&osCsid=auo8s4k9kgnu6ras0fpde2cq35
Releasing on 7th January.
Excited :)
Now I can get on with my strictly un-medieval Game of Thrones cavalry forces ;)
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I dived on these as soon as I saw on Facebook. Separate torsos and left arms should make them way more conversion friendly than the WotR ones.
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Magnificent. I can only hope that they will one day do the Crusades in plastic.
About the 3 box deal with free commander. Does it only count for the pre-order?
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At last!
They look fantastic, and with separate torsos, legs, left and right arms, AND weapon hands, they definitely seem to have masses more options than the WOTR equivalent.
I particularly like the look of the lightly armoured sergeants with lances.....
Interesting to look at the lances too being held both upright and couched under the arm..... I've never actually known at what point in history the classic 'knight's lance' shape arrived, this suggests it wasn't til later in the 15th century. Looks like lances in this period were still just long spears, but had a little disc / rondel thing..... And the breastplate at this stage didn't have the lance-rest.
About the 3 box deal with free commander. Does it only count for the pre-order?
No I imagine that's forever - all their other plastic boxes have a free metal mini when you order three boxes.
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/A3.jpg)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/A7.JPG)
(https://www.perry-miniatures.com/images/A8.JPG)
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Here's the frame.
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/48356950_1823705907751507_6977852358709477376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=159417e59d26b64778868aab9d68c54c&oe=5CA751FF)
Seems there are three of these in the box, which will make 18 riders, but just 12 horses. The Perrys confirmed this on their facebook page. So if you are ordering from their website, grab a couple of extra horse frames too!!!!
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Ok.. Goodbye life... Its seems im going to spend the next years inside...
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https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?products_id=3967&osCsid=auo8s4k9kgnu6ras0fpde2cq35 (https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product_info.php?products_id=3967&osCsid=auo8s4k9kgnu6ras0fpde2cq35)
Releasing on 7th January.
Excited :)
Now I can get on with my strictly un-medieval Game of Thrones cavalry forces ;)
Part Two of this years game comes nearer, I hope
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Thank-you for the tip about buying the extra horse sprues (B29 Wars of the Roses/EA horses). 18 superb cavalry for £26 is a bargain.
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These look really good!
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Lovely cavalry and I just happen to have some spare Fireforge horses :)
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I notice Fireforge also sell their caparisoned horses in packs of four horses in any case. Hopefully a bit of knife work will render them compatible with the Perry riders, possibly even their horse heads.
Unhistorical maybe, but hey. :)
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You have to remove most of the saddle (the front and back pieces at least) and do a bit of filing on the inner thighs of the rider, but its very doable. The horses heads are easy, no cutting needed (if I remember correctly) but you will need to a bit of green stuff to smooth the gap.
I made a couple of Tyrell knights from camparisoned Fireforge horses and Perry WOTR riders :)
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I'm old skool, I'll probably use 'melted sprue' instead of Green Stuff. lol
Thanks though, good to know it's do-able. :)
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I want to get them but I wouldnt know what to do with them I fear.
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Am I the only one who doesn't like the look of caparisoned horses? So I'm perfectly happy with these as they are.
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Wonderful news.
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Am I the only one who doesn't like the look of caparisoned horses? So I'm perfectly happy with these as they are.
I would only be using them for persons of rank. The overwhelming contemporary visual evidence for the 15th Century shows horses without barding or caparison. With perhaps one actual knight per hundred other men, less is more.
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These are very tempting. But not quite sure what I need them for. I'm sure I'll find a way to shoe-horn them into a project...
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Huzza! Just a shame they couldn't get them out for Christmas as I know for the first time my hoards of grown up children have bought me what I asked for Perry's WOTR boxes, these would have been the icing on the cake. Something to look forward to buying in January :-* :-* :-*
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I'm paused working on the Crecy war, with dozens of mounted knights to paint, while I paint Wars of the Roses as part of a club project. Meanwhile, now I want to split the difference and do Agincourt! :-* I'll need to get out my recent Claymore Castings order to retain my focus. :D
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7th january is my name day, seems like the perfect present :-*
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We need to organise a swap-shop to trade light-horse for heavy-horse components...
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I notice Fireforge also sell their caparisoned horses in packs of four horses in any case. Hopefully a bit of knife work will render them compatible with the Perry riders, possibly even their horse heads.
Unhistorical maybe, but hey. :)
I think that its way better to sculpt a caparison on a perry horse. Fireforge horses have some annoying anatomy problems. Especially the heads are pretty bad.
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Unless you're dead set on eking out every possible figure from every box, you can use Perry horse heads. 15th Century caparisons appear not to have covered neck and head, so a normal one or one of the new heads with a chamfron etc, can replace the Fireforge ones.
Whether that will be more trouble than adding your own caparison is certainly debateable though.
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Would it be feasible to make a decent looking cloth caparison using paper soaked in diluted PVA glue?
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They look rather good, but then they are Perry, can't wait.
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I have many more HYW figures than I need for the project I have planned, and yet I know I will be buying a box of these and no doubt some extra horses to make sure I can use the whole box...
Oh well, I suppose I ought to get those handgunners and the casualty sets while I'm at it... ::)
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Would it be feasible to make a decent looking cloth caparison using paper soaked in diluted PVA glue?
I would say no. But its very doable using a mix of greenstuff plus milliput or any other hard putty. Roll it out with the handle of an x acto knife, using water, wait for about 15 min, and then start applying it on the horse. You just have to get the general form right. Then let it set and add small cones of putty that will be pushed pulled to form the wrinkles of the fabric.
I did it from the first go, without seeing any tutorials etc, so anyone can do it.
https://pin.it/pmaovnvdlqc3bi
https://pin.it/2qsbioyrzngt5u
https://pin.it/ke6gccm6z5k7i3
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Probably my favorite perry set yet! I hope the perries can single handedly propel HYW stuff to become a more popular period for skirmishes and big wargames. I'm also happy to see that if you're careful about which neck protection you pick, you can push back the time period of these by a couple decades. Not all the way to Poitiers perhaps, but at least back to Shrewsbury and Najera.
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Good to see these out and looking so nice. My Christmas reading is Sumption’s 4th volume on the 100YW which is packed with scenario ideas so I foresee a box or three of these in my immediate future :)
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Would it be feasible to make a decent looking cloth caparison using paper soaked in diluted PVA glue?
I’ve often made the ‘energetically moving’ parts of capes (not so different from a caparison) by using paper tacked in place with superglue then soaked in superglue to stiffen it, which when cured would be skimmed and detailed with GS.
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Really looking forward to these!
Cheers
Matt
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Really happy to see how much they packed on the sprue.
Steve
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Back to the original topic: has anybody already got these in their hands, and is able to comment on them?
I have made an order for them through a retailer, but will take a while until I will get them in my hands.
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I’ve got them. They are as lovely and versatile as we have come to expect from Perry Miniatures. It will be a while before I build any, but so much lovely stuff on the frame. Wonderful.
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I've drafted a brief review - which I'll stick on my blog asap and advise on here when its done - just finishing off painting a few more for Alan P.
Suffice to say, they are impressive on many counts!
Cheers, Simon.
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I don't even have a shipping notice yet, I can't wait!
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I got mine through today and they are well worth the wait! VERY impressed!
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For those who have seen them in nature: would it be feasible to combine some of the upper bodies with the lower bodies of the foot men-at-arms (cruelly sawed in two) to provide some added variety to foot units?
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Entirely feasible - if you have a sharp knife :)
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I got mine yesterday and like others I am very impressed.
I need to work out what I want to build with them as I already have Forces with characters for Agincourt and Orleans.
I will have to see who was at the Battle of the Herrings and at Patay.
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There's a little review - and pics of some painted ones that you'll have seen in the Perry Miniatures adverts etc - on my blog.
Heres a link: https://harness-and-array.blogspot.com
I'm looking forward to painting more for myself.
Cheers, Simon.
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They look fantastic Simon, well done! I got mine the other day and have started playing around with the kit. Really like the seperate torsos and legs.
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There's a little review - and pics of some painted ones that you'll have seen in the Perry Miniatures adverts etc - on my blog.
Heres a link: https://harness-and-array.blogspot.com
I'm looking forward to painting more for myself.
Cheers, Simon.
Great work as always, any chance for an update on your burgundians?
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Mine arrived today and have thoroughly enjoyed assembling some of them! These are 4 straight builds from the box, albeit with a shield from a Fireforge box added onto one of them - they will be being used for a Song of Ice and Fire project so ignore the slight anachronism.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/51150925_783283045358865_6946443649420886016_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=38d492d69274079b37db0493996cd5ee&oe=5CBB1186)
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They certainly look nice and fill a gap. Now you can have massed French cavalry suicide charges for less money..
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Now you can have massed French cavalry suicide charges for less money..
Not to mention massed English cavalry suicide charges (e.g. Bauge 1421).
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Mine arrived today and have thoroughly enjoyed assembling some of them! These are 4 straight builds from the box, albeit with a shield from a Fireforge box added onto one of them - they will be being used for a Song of Ice and Fire project so ignore the slight anachronism.
(https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/s2048x2048/51150925_783283045358865_6946443649420886016_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=38d492d69274079b37db0493996cd5ee&oe=5CBB1186)
With afew modifications like adding some horns on helms or crests, they would be just right for asoiaf
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Uff! Luckily for me, Agincourt era is not my poison, otherwise I would be throwing out of the window my New Years Purpose of not buying more miniatures until I finish what I have in my painting table!
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I received my first box today. On a quick glance the parts look excellent, though a closer examination needs to wait a day or two.
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Okay... Thought I’d chip in with my initial experiences using a few parts from this excellent new set…
I don’t do HYW (and I’m not about to start another new period!) so I’m mainly going to be using these for my Game of Thrones armies. But also to kit-bash with the Wars of the Roses plastics to create some interesting new variations by mixing in some of the earlier style armour and weapons. There are lots of useful components in this new set for that - although the fact that the HYW heads come fixed onto the bodies is somewhat limiting, and requires knifework to achieve headswaps.
I do appreciate the bascinet with mail aventail characteristic of this period would have been more difficult to portray using separate heads. But I still think it would have been better. All the other medieval Perry plastic sets (apart from the HYW knights frames) have separate heads using shallow ball and socket joints, which makes for endless and glorious customisation possibilities.
Is mashing up these kits from either end of the C15th strictly kosher though?
Well… Given that this new set has a notional end date of 1429 - and the WOTR sets a notional start date of 1450, whilst I appreciate that armour styles evolved quite a lot in sophistication between, say, Agincourt in 1415 and Bosworth 70 years later, there’s certainly going to be a crossover period in the middle of that timespan, where one would have seen earlier and later armour styles used at the same time and quite possibly intermixed. So I don’t have any qualms about mashing up parts drawn from the two periods.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-310119220154-37414891.jpeg)
The practical considerations are actually slightly more challenging than the philosophical ones though.
In addition to the ‘fixed head’ issue mentioned above, it’s also true to say that (in common with the HYW foot knights / infantry sets), Alan’s HYW plastics are noticeably bigger than Michael’s WOTR plastics. Taller, arms longer, torsos a bit heftier, and so on. This isn’t hugely noticeable TBH, but it does show up a little bit when you kit-bash them together.
It’s even more noticeable with the mounted figures because this set uses Michael’s original plastic horse frame from the WOTR sets (except for a couple of extra heads now included on the main frame). So you now have taller figures sitting on (relatively) smaller horses. And they look a little oversized to my eye, although I’m sure to many people it would be barely noticeable.
But if you look at my first two hybrid figure builds here, you’ll notice that the rider based on the HYW body sits a fair bit taller in the saddle than the rider based on a WOTR light cavalry body.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-310119220154-374151463.jpeg)
One could never accuse the Perrys of being stingy with components. Their kits are stuffed full of parts and generous to a fault compared with all the other plastic manufacturers. Incredible value for money. But I do dearly wish they'd made another horse frame. I do appreciate that there is an astonishing number of variations possible from just the six horse halves and four heads on the original WOTR horse frame, but I have made an awful lot of them now, and would have loved some alternatives. Plus I am sick and tired of painting those fecking studs on the tack! Something different would have been nice :)
Other points I’ve noticed…
As Simon points out in his review on his Harness and Array blog, the new horse armour parts are very nicely done and extremely useful in providing additional variety, but (perhaps predictably) for such fiddly parts, they're slightly tricky to fit snugly in place, and how well they fit seems to depend to some extent on the positioning of the horse’s front legs.
I bent the front chainmail sections slightly to get a better fit, but I’m still going to have to use a little Green Stuff to fill the slight gap.
The weapons, arms and accessories included in the kit are all absolutely lovely, of course, although looking again at the monster falchion I have given one of these two riders, for a Perry piece, it does look slightly uncharacteristically outsized. (If that was solid steel, would anyone actually be able to lift a sword that huge, and wield it one handed? Still, it looks good though, so I’m turning a blind eye… )
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-310119220154-374071824.jpeg)
Looking forward to knocking together a few more...
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Nice builds there Captain. I've been playing around with some of the same components, in fact that very same Light Cavalry body features in the unit posted last weekend in my GoT log. Not had the nerve to slice of any aventailed (is that a word?) heads yet though, but I'm sure it will happen soon. I'm not even half way though the first of three boxes.
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Interesting.
I think I'll have to try some of the armoured arms on the light cavalry bodies like you have shown - new lance poses for WOTR light cav will be very welcome. The actual arm armour style on the example you've shown really really isn't that different to the later era 'gothic' style, or general low-grade munitions armour....The one big difference is the gauntlets - these earlier gauntlets are very much of the Agincourt period. I was thinking though, by slicing / filing them down and a little bit of green stuff, they could be easily turned into leather gloves!
You are right they do seem to be noticeably taller and make the horses look somewhat smaller. Though perhaps the WOTR head you've put on the gambesoned body hasn't helped - should you perhaps have cut more of the neck off?
I definitely want to use those new horse heads on my late-era project - I don't think they look too different to the WOTR chamfrons, and actually quite similar to some early 16th century Gendarme horse armour I've seen. I think they'd be quite at home throughout the whole 15th century. Probably same goes for the mail bard and the little horse chest-plate bit.
As for the falchion - I don't think it looks oversized. The blades were pretty wide...... BUT they weren't massively heavy weapons, the blades were THIN, more razor-sharp slicers than heavy cleavers. So perhaps the blade being wider than a normal sword but thinner, and about the same length, means they don't really have much more mass?
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You are right they do seem to be noticeably taller and make the horses look somewhat smaller. Though perhaps the WOTR head you've put on the gambesoned body hasn't helped - should you perhaps have cut more of the neck off?
You're probably right Charlie, although I'm fairly confident I've put the head about where it ought to be anatomically speaking, but it may be a mm or two too high. That said, the HYW bodies are irrefutably taller and bulkier. From the bottom of the foot to the top of the shoulder joint, they are a good 3mm - 4mm taller at the shoulder.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-010219112507.jpeg)
The other thing you'll notice, is that because the mail aventail on the HYW torso comes down to the shoulder at quite an angle, the arms have to sit down off the shoulder. You can't visually cheat it by raising them a little higher than the shoulder joint itself - which would help.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-010219105637.jpeg)
And (also because of the angle the drop of the aventail is modelled at) if, when slicing off the bascinet-wearing HYW head, you cut off too much of the mail aventail, you are left with a wide, flat-topped expanse of shoulders!
I wanted to put a simple, open sallet head on this fellow. But the various heads I offered up all looked proportionately way too small - like a pin head. Which is why I went with one of the larger, visored sallets... ::)
So, all in all, the slight difference in height and stature together with the integral head/aventail issue, does mean that these are not the most straightforward prospect for kitbashing together with the WOTR sets. But still worth trying a few out for a bit of added variety :)
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My less ambitious plan is to try mixing spare arms/weapons from the cavalry kit with the foot MAA bodies, since those bodies tend to be a bit spartan in the selection of arms (does not help that I am not very fond of the lances/spears, and the two-handed warhammer in the English sprue is prone to breaking). Previously I have used a few arms from the French infantry set to give variety.
Having eye-balled the cavalry sprue, there is quite a number of arms, but some of them look like they have been specifically designed for men astride galloping horses, with long loose arms billowing in the wind - those might look a bit odd on a man walking steadily forward. Furthermore, some arms look like they would look best on certain bodies, so I should also think which bodies I want to use for cavalry - it does not help that few of the bodies have left arm moulded on that would look best with the matching right arm. If I go looting the cavalry sprues too liberally I may run into troubles later on when actually assembling them as cavalry.
The separate bodies all seem very nice, and I really want to try combining many of them with infantry lower bodies to provide some variety.
Also, having found the separate visors a bit fiddly, I do appreciate the figures with moulded on visors.
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Some (simpler) conversions for the start of my figures - fiddling around with the chamfrons, to create a little variety.
(https://i.imgur.com/HhcnICI.jpg)
Bit more on this on my blog. https://harness-and-array.blogspot.com
Cheers, Simon.
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Simon, I really like those chamfron conversions. :-*
I will try that too.
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Splendid Simon. What a neat idea :)
Many people, including me, will now be pinching that lol
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Yesterday, I happened to place the new cavalry sprue next to a French (dismounted) men-at-arms sprue and noticed an interesting detail: at least four of the MAA bodies on the cavalry sprue are derived from the dismounted versions with some minor additions (two had left arm sculpted on, one had a slightly different bevor). This might be of interest for those who want to build mounted and dismounted versions of the same figure e.g. for skirmish gaming. However, as far as I can tell most of the mounted legs did not match straight up, so there might be a need for some converting (extending the arming coat, adjusting the belt).
Also the two "light horsemen" on the cavalry sprue looked like they have close equivalents on the French infantry sprue (the bodies with gambesons and plate leg greaves), which would allow for a few more mounted and dismounted variants. I also realised that I might need to do a bit of cutting and glueing to get a wider variety of heads for planned unit of mounted sergeants in gambeson...
As for the English (dismounted) knights sprue, as far as I could tell there was just one body that was directly used as a basis for a cavalryman upper body, and this is the same upper body that was also reused in the French dismounted MAA sprue, though with a longer arming coat (I do not really mind this recycling, since it is a great figure). However, some of the other upper bodies look like it could be possible to convert them a bit for closer resemblance to a mounted version - or just cutting them at the waist and replacing the upper body with one from the cavalry sprue.
Mind me, I am not planning on doing any of this at the moment, since I do not have any particular need for mounted and dismounted versions of the same figure, but I presume somebody else might appreciate the idea e.g. for individual commanders or for small skirmish bands.
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Useful insights, thank you.
You win the ‘super detailed observation of Perry plastic kits’ prize - you have out-nerded even me on that one lol lol :)
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And for the really obsessive skirmish gamer, you could try to do three or four versions of the same model:
1.) charging mounted with a lance
2.) fighting mounted with a sword
3.) fighting dismounted with a sword
4.) fighting dismounted with a shortened lance
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You forgot that using all three sets you can also make a matching gambesoned soldier who is
5. Riding with longbow slung behind back
6. Dismounted with longbow slung behind back
7. Dismounted shooting longbow.
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Then there's another one, probably not very realistic:
8. Riding and shooting longbow
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Lying dead with longbow stuffed up his a*** ? 😁
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Lying dead with longbow stuffed up his a*** ? 😁
With or without gambeson?
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I don't think there is room for both a longbow and a gambeson up there...
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I have a feeling that converting a gambesoned plastic soldier into a casualty might be a bit more involved than the builds that I suggested.
That said, I have seen some of the Perry WotR plastics into casualties, so it can probably be done for the plastics - though for a more convenient option Perrys have a couple of packs of metal casualties available (no horses, though).
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I made a plastic casualty years ago when the first Perry WOTR set came out, by cutting the figure off its base, glueing the head and arms on, then hitting it with a hammer to flatten it. Then making good the result. Worked pretty well :)
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I made a plastic casualty years ago when the first Perry WOTR set came out, by cutting the figure off its base, glueing the head and arms on, then hitting it with a hammer to flatten it. Then making good the result. Worked pretty well :)
That's some really subtle conversion technique, that is!
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I made a plastic casualty years ago when the first Perry WOTR set came out, by cutting the figure off its base, glueing the head and arms on, then hitting it with a hammer to flatten it. Then making good the result. Worked pretty well :)
Reminded me the line from Sledge Hammer tv series
-trust me, i know what im doing
lol
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I made a plastic casualty years ago when the first Perry WOTR set came out, by cutting the figure off its base, glueing the head and arms on, then hitting it with a hammer to flatten it.
I presumed that in the end the soldier in question looked rather hammered?
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None of them look too bright do they? ;)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/577_04_06_10_12_22_58_1.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/577_04_06_10_12_22_58_0.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/6/577_04_06_10_12_22_58_2.jpg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/10/577_06_05_12_2_25_13_3.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/10/577_06_05_12_2_25_13_1.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/10/577_06_05_12_2_25_13_2.JPG)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/5/577_30_01_10_2_14_58.jpg)
I think it was the top one I bashed with a hammer... ::)
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Even when Captain Blood blast his miniatures with the hammer they do look good.. o_o