Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: aktr on December 18, 2018, 10:41:27 AM
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Hi,
Ever since GW nuked the old world I've had several fantasy armies sat on the shelf in boxes (not a rant against AoS, I have an army for that as well) and I would like to dust them off and get them on the table at some point
I know I could just use the WFB 8th edition rules but I'm wondering if there is anything else out there that might be worth a try.
I tried KoW a few years ago but the magic system was rubbish - basically just another shooting attack and I also had a problem that I had effectively killed an opponents unit but because I rolled snake eyes 2 turns in a row they just sat there and I couldn't do anything about them.
I also know the 9th age is a thing but I would prefer something with a physical book
I was holding out hope for the New one from warlord games but that is apparently warbands
Things I would like
Rank and File
Physical book (available in the UK)
Decent magic system
bonus points if the army lists/rules would let me get a mythological ancients army (Greeks with a minotaur/hydra/Cyclops for example)
Also is its 'shiny' and well supported its more likely to get the attention of my opponent
So what's out there?
Cheers
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Dragon Rampant is quite new and good fun. It doesn't have rank and file and the magic may not be to your liking but it is very flexible for re-purposing your old minis. It's also quite cheap from Osprey.
The old Fantasy Warriors is still available for free from Mirliton. Nothing to lose on that one. I remember it as good fun. You might have to make up some army lists as not all were covered but I think there is a reasonable fan base still playing the game in Italy.
Can't really think of any others - sorry
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I've been playing around with Kings of War and Lord and Lands, both worth a butchers I think.
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"The old Fantasy Warriors is still available for free from Mirliton. Nothing to lose on that one. I remember it as good fun. You might have to make up some army lists as not all were covered but I think there is a reasonable fan base still playing the game in Italy."
I also have a download site full of materials at https://www.fysh.org/~katie/wargames/downloads/fantasy_warriors/
We've got summary sheets, notes about army formations, some translated army lists, token sheets, army rosters, compilations of material organised by subject (I believe it's all the material available) and an INDEX!!
The one 'gotcha' with GW->FW moves is that most FW armies are 25mm square bases. I've actually built armies from loose figures in storage so that wasn't a problem. One other player uses movement trays that correct the figure spacing.
The Italian group have ~100 armylists, although for a more advanced version of the game. They're also currently doing a re-write of the materials.
It is still good fun. Very "D6", the magic is wild and erratic, it's less influenced by IGO-UGO than Warhammer. Point sizes are roughly equivalent to WH -- 2000 points is a good size army of maybe 100 figures and you can play out a game in an evening. 3000 points will take half a day.
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Going back in time via the search button:
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=92879.0
It has a number of good suggestions already
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Reaper have an overlooked system called Warlord. I own the rulebook, but - SPOILER ALERT! - have never played a game, though I have read it and thought the mechanics - including playing card-based activation - were interesting.
A quick start version can be downloaded for free:
https://www.reapermini.com/pdf/WarlordQuickStart_08-06.pdf
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The two best massed-battle fantasy games out there, in my experience, are Hordes of the Things and Mayhem. The former is a physical book; the latter's available as both a PDF and a printed book.
Of the two, Mayhem has the more detailed magic system. In HotT, magic is quite powerful and can have odd side-effects, but is heavily abstracted.
I've played both quite a bit, but much more HotT. It's a very 'tight' ruleset: it's been going strong since its first release more than a quarter of a century ago and has needed only a couple of tweaks to the rules in that time (swapping the movement rates of two unit types and one other thing I can't recall - but more like minor errata than the sort of inter-edition changes that most games require). The first time I played it was a real 'aha!' moment - I haven't touched Warhammer since. I think HotT gives much more of a genuine mass-battle feel than Warhammer, and it's much more tactical. It's also the most perfectly balanced ruleset out there, which is why it works so well in tournament format.
Mayhem is a bit 'looser' than HotT and allows for wilder tactical gambles. So it gives a slightly different flavour of game. Its only major weakness is a lack of standard unit types (it's build your own). But that isn't a problem for Warhammer players, because there's a free list of Warhammer/Warmaster conversions on the Battlescribe app, with all the standard Warhammer troop types covered.
Both games use fixed blocks of troops. But that's not much of an impediment for Warhammer miniatures, as element frontage for 28mm figures is 60mm (i.e. three Warhammer human bases together). And you play with larger frontages if that suits you better. There are lots of possibilities for sabot basing or using magnets to make miniatures multi-use. I use the same elements for both games; either two or three HotT infantry elements make up a Mayhem square.
As for Greek myth: HotT has lists for Homeric Greeks and Trojans, creatures of Greek myth and Amazons. And of course, you can create any army list you fancy. There are loads in the rulebook, but they're for inspiration rather restriction. And there are rather nice rules for gods.
In Mayhem, you can stat up any army as you see fit, using the points system.
Both rulesets are very much 'rank and file'. In HotT in particular, flanking and support are very important, as is terrain: certain troop types fight really well in rough ground while others are hugely compromised. And the positioning of large monsters adds another layer of uncertainty, given their ability to squash smaller creatures when upset!
One point about both games, but HotT in particular, is that the flavour is in the rules rather than in the rulebooks. The HotT rules are designed to emulate battles in fantasy fiction and myth, and they do a really good job of this. But you get that from playing the game rather than reading the book, which is dry and technical. I think that's a feature rather than a bug, though: the game's the whole point, after all.
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Sword and Spear fantasy do the trick for me, units are a single block. No codecs and a nice spreadsheet to build your forces so no head scratching.
There is a Sharpe Practice variant in the works for large skirmishes I am keeping an eye on as the rules are great
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Is HotT still in print?
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I was selling foundry’s god of battle ,took it off sale due to selling over Xmas not read it just flicked through the pics ::)
https://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/god-of-battles/products/god-of-battles-by-jake-thornton
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I was selling foundry’s god of battle ,took it off sale due to selling over Xmas not read it just flicked through the pics ::)
https://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/god-of-battles/products/god-of-battles-by-jake-thornton
Cheers 3 fingers, I like the sound of that one, will it still be on sale after Christmas?
Or if I order now will you hold the order until after Christmas?
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Is HotT still in print?
My google-fu is not especially strong but I couldn't find it. I was inspired to look by the review above and the best I found was used 1st editions in the 90 USD range.
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It's odd: it seems to be still in print but out of stock at Amazon, etc. It was certainly still available when I looked last, which wasn't that long ago. I wonder if it's just a temporary thing.
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Cheers 3 fingers, I like the sound of that one, will it still be on sale after Christmas?
Or if I order now will you hold the order until after Christmas?
Hi I had it for sale for a tenner ,postage will be a killer as it’s heavy but I’m uk based as well. I only stopped the thread as wary of posting at this time of year so it will be for sale again end of January etc
Unless your desperate for it , I could post it out Friday as on half day then ?
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"The old Fantasy Warriors is still available for free from Mirliton. Nothing to lose on that one. I remember it as good fun. You might have to make up some army lists as not all were covered but I think there is a reasonable fan base still playing the game in Italy."
I also have a download site full of materials at https://www.fysh.org/~katie/wargames/downloads/fantasy_warriors/
We've got summary sheets, notes about army formations, some translated army lists, token sheets, army rosters, compilations of material organised by subject (I believe it's all the material available) and an INDEX!!
The one 'gotcha' with GW->FW moves is that most FW armies are 25mm square bases. I've actually built armies from loose figures in storage so that wasn't a problem. One other player uses movement trays that correct the figure spacing.
The Italian group have ~100 armylists, although for a more advanced version of the game. They're also currently doing a re-write of the materials.
It is still good fun. Very "D6", the magic is wild and erratic, it's less influenced by IGO-UGO than Warhammer. Point sizes are roughly equivalent to WH -- 2000 points is a good size army of maybe 100 figures and you can play out a game in an evening. 3000 points will take half a day.
Hi Katie,
thank you very much for mentioning us.
Our site is this :
http://www.naran.it/naran
and on this page:
http://www.naran.it/FantasyWars/Immagini/battaglie_page_index.htm
you can see many photos of our Fantasy Warriors battles, for which we use different brands of 28mm miniatures.
We have also added several "historical" armies revisited in a fantasy version. So, if you want to play the Romans against the Orcs or the Greeks against the Goblins you can do it. We did it, with great fun.
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Is HotT still in print?
Yes, it’s still in print, and on edition 3.0
I got mine from black hat
https://www.blackhat.co.uk/product/horde-of-the-things-2-1/
a few years back (after waiting painfully for a re-stock).
Problem is, it’s regularly (as it is now) “out of stock”. They usually print a bunch, sell them, and then you have to wait about 6 months for it to be in stock again. Very annoying if your waiting for a copy.
You can still get a copy here (below) for a little more...ironic, since it’s in the USA, and 90% of what I order I have to get from the UK at ridiculous shipping fees.
http://onmilitarymatters.com/pages/dfsearch.php?term=keywords&data=Hordes+of+the+things&submit=Search
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Now, as far as the topic itself...
...sigh
I LOVE fantasy, and I love “mass” battles. I played Warhammer Fantasy Battles weekly and almost exclusively for a decade with 4th, 5th, and finally 6th edition.
When I first started, most of my minis were 3rd edition, and as time went on I gradually sold painted models to pay for newer models. The only original model I still have is my snotty pump wagon and a handful of plastic regiment of renown figures. Oh how I now regret my youthful stupidity and wish I had my original collection of Oldhammer figures.
In any case. When WFB died...it really took mass battles with it. We now live in the age of the “skirmish” game. People want to buy and paint a handful of miniatures and play. They want a shinny new rulebooks, and monthly supplements...and they want to turn around and do it all over again a year later with the newest shiny new thing that comes out.
KoW makes a good effort, and while I’m sure it’s popular in some pockets...it’s not the same as the days when EVERY game store you walked in had a wall full of WFB, and everyone you met who played a miniature gamewas playing WFB.
Trust me, I’ve been looking for a “replacement” for years. I have a stack of old and new fantasy games and more historical ones (for possible conversions). None feel the same as WFB, none do the same thing, and finding people who want to rabidly invest time, money, and effort into being a fantasy mass battles hobbiest is an excercise in depressive futility.
Even if you do all the work and spend all the money (which I’ve done in the past)...you are left with an emptiness, since likeminded obsessive gamers are what makes the whole hobby fun, and begging people to play one of two games of something you’ve invested so much in, quite frankly SUCKS!
I even tried a crossover to ancients, with their element based armies. But again, it’s not the same. Old historical grognards are getting harder and harder to find, and the majority of them are anal about their history...so if you want to fight a huge battle between Vikings and the French of the Hundred Years War, you are going to be met with a ton of resistance.
BUT...there may be the tiniest glimmer of hope with Oathmark. It’s hard to tell, since we are getting miniatures before rules. The miniatures are nice*...but if the rules are too dry, or have a bunch of gimmicks, bells, whistles, or counters (let’s look at the Song of Fire and Ice mini/board game...for instance) it could be dead before it arrives.
*What gives me hope are that these miniatures aren’t ridiculously overdone with unnecessary “darkness” and silly detail, spikes, chains, and ornaments no sensible warrior would wear into battle.
That’s my rant, end of chapter 1...
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Hi Grubman
You wrote that " When WFB died...it really took mass battles with it ".
Well, let me disagree.
If it (WBF) is dead, by the will of its creator, this does not mean that the fantasy wargame is dead too.
For many years all over the world players have continued to play Fantasy Warriors, even after the closure before the Grenadier and then the Stratelibri. But from the 2004 there is MIRLITON that continues to distribute it ...... for free!
We, Naran Team Torino, in Italy, and the Frothers group in Great Britain have helped to keep alive the interest in the beautiful wargame which is Fantasy Warriors, according to many much better than WFB.
As far as we are concerned, in the year 2000 (eighteen years ago!) We had expanded Fantasy Warriors with the addition of new armies based essentially on GW miniatures: Lizardmen, Rat Men, Warriors and Chaos Creatures , etc. And then we extended the armies to allow us to use other miniatures produced by many other companies: Crocodile and Mantic, to name just two, but also Reaper and many others, including those that produce historical miniatures (Aventine, Victrix, Black Tree, and other).
In total, more than 60 Fantasy Warriors armies are managed by us:
http://www.naran.it/naran/International/fantasy/armies/a00_armies_page.htm
We are now working on the FIFTH edition and have already released several new army lists. The previous edition were: 2000 - 2004 - 2007-2008 - 2012.
So, for us, the "fantasy wargame" is alive and well, and it survives very well without WFB.
Cheers,
Naran Team Turin
http://www.naran.it/naran/
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“Dead” isn’t really meant to be taken exactly literally. When it comes to games, nothing is ever totally dead, as there will always be pockets of gamers and isolated groups still joyfully playing the games they love.
But these isolated gamers and groups don’t make a game “alive” , even if it’s supported (usually Online).
Lots of people have the illusion that their game is still fundamentally “alive” because they have a group of freinds still playing, or they belong to online groups or forums...they may even be able to recruit new people into the fold.
But a game is truly alive when you see it in every game store you walk into, you have people playing regularly in every game store you go into, you can meet and join groups in any are you move to, and you can find a pickup game (often with a stranger) whenever you have the urge to play.
And before you argue, remember that WFB and (big battle) 40K were mainstream like that for 2 decades, give or take by location.
One often doesn’t realize this unless they move around from location to location, or have a longtime group dissolve. You can aggressively and actively search for a group for a “dead” game forever without any luck...all the while, the current “alive” games have scores of players, just like I described above (with WFB in the day). I live less than 30 minutes from 2 game stores, and if I want to play Sigmar, Kill Team, Magic, the Star Wars game of the month, or 5th edition D&D, I’m set at the drop of a hat.
There is a reason why, for example, people look to retro-clone RPGs or games that replaced popular OoP games (the multitude of WAB games anyone?) instead of just playing the old favorite. They want to be part of something that feels energetic, offers opportunities to play instead of just wishing, and makes you feel part of a mainstream (in our hobby) community.
[Edit] And no insult to FW, but I’ve never seen anyone play it at a game store, of the multitude of conventions I’ve been at. My old FLGS had one copy of the boxed set for sale next to WFB 4th edition...then still sitting next to boxes of 5th edition, and finally opened to sell the miniatures while discarding the rest of the box (I know, because the owner was a “friend” of mine and sold me the miniatures for 50 cents apiece).
Hi Grubman
You wrote that " When WFB died...it really took mass battles with it ".
Well, let me disagree.
If it (WBF) is dead, by the will of its creator, this does not mean that the fantasy wargame is dead too.
For many years all over the world players have continued to play Fantasy Warriors, even after the closure before the Grenadier and then the Stratelibri. But from the 2004 there is MIRLITON that continues to distribute it ...... for free!
We, Naran Team Torino, in Italy, and the Frothers group in Great Britain have helped to keep alive the interest in the beautiful wargame which is Fantasy Warriors, according to many much better than WFB.
As far as we are concerned, in the year 2000 (eighteen years ago!) We had expanded Fantasy Warriors with the addition of new armies based essentially on GW miniatures: Lizardmen, Rat Men, Warriors and Chaos Creatures , etc. And then we extended the armies to allow us to use other miniatures produced by many other companies: Crocodile and Mantic, to name just two, but also Reaper and many others, including those that produce historical miniatures (Aventine, Victrix, Black Tree, and other).
In total, more than 60 Fantasy Warriors armies are managed by us:
http://www.naran.it/naran/International/fantasy/armies/a00_armies_page.htm
We are now working on the FIFTH edition and have already released several new army lists. The previous edition were: 2000 - 2004 - 2007-2008 - 2012.
So, for us, the "fantasy wargame" is alive and well, and it survives very well without WFB.
Cheers,
Naran Team Turin
http://www.naran.it/naran/
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I really like Kings of war. Later editions of Warhammer were so clunky I much prefer the more streamlined approach of KoW. How anyone played Warhammer as a tournament game I will never know.
I'm the UK at least there seems to be a healthy KoW community and plenty of tournaments for those who like that sort of thing. Mantic support it well and it adequately fills the WHFB hole.
EDIF: The OP didn't like the magic system of KoW. It might be worth revisiting. The spell list is a lot bigger in the newer edition. And has been expanded by the Clash of King's books.
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I'm the UK at least there seems to be a healthy KoW community and plenty of tournaments for those who like that sort of thing. Mantic support it well and it adequately fills the WHFB hole.
Yep, from what I can tell from online friends, the UK is always better when it comes to miniature game diversity, than the states (try to find a HotT group in the states, ha ha). I though KoW would capture the old WFB crowd, but it doesn’t seem to have gained too much steam. Shiny new Skirmish games with lots of flash, gimmicks, and bells and whistles are all the rage everywhere I go.
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In any case. When WFB died...it really took mass battles with it. We now live in the age of the “skirmish” game. People want to buy and paint a handful of miniatures and play. They want a shinny new rulebooks, and monthly supplements...and they want to turn around and do it all over again a year later with the newest shiny new thing that comes out.
I suspect that this has more to do with the gaming market than anything. GW's fantasy sales were minimal before Age of Sigmar. Skirmish games with lots of add-ons and expansions also make them a nice stream of income as well.
I am getting back into playing Warmaster with the release of the Warmaster Revolution rules but I suspect that 10mm figures for that system are difficult to come by.
A freeform game like Mayhem really seems like a good place to start since it is scale and figure range agnostic
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“Dead” isn’t really meant to be taken exactly literally. When it comes to games, nothing is ever totally dead, as there will always be pockets of gamers and isolated groups still joyfully playing the games they love.
[omissis]
[Edit] And no insult to FW, but I’ve never seen anyone play it at a game store, of the multitude of conventions I’ve been at. My old FLGS had one copy of the boxed set for sale next to WFB 4th edition...then still sitting next to boxes of 5th edition, and finally opened to sell the miniatures while discarding the rest of the box (I know, because the owner was a “friend” of mine and sold me the miniatures for 50 cents apiece).
Hi Grubman,
Friend, I just said that I did not agree with you that the fantasy wargame was "dead", I only expressed my opion, and as the ancient Romans said "De gustibus non est disputandum ".
Regarding the fact of seeing Fantasy Warriors played at a Wargame Convention, well, we plan to sign up for the next "Milano Wargames" Convention, that will take place in Novegro - Milan on Sunday, February 24th.
If you come, you will see a beautiful Fantasy Warriors wargame, in which miniatures of different companies will be used.
On this occasion I wish you a happy end of the year 2018 and an excellent 2019 with lots of fantasy warggames, as we will certainly play.
To all Friends:
In case someone is interested, the”Milano Wargames” Convention is this: http://milanowargames.blogspot.it
The registrations will be open starting after January 10th
Cheers,
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Yep, from what I can tell from online friends, the UK is always better when it comes to miniature game diversity, than the states (try to find a HotT group in the states, ha ha). I though KoW would capture the old WFB crowd, but it doesn’t seem to have gained too much steam. Shiny new Skirmish games with lots of flash, gimmicks, and bells and whistles are all the rage everywhere I go.
I remember reading something that suggested that one of the motivating factors behind GW finishing up with WHFB was that poor sales, particularly in North America, was the real death knell. Seems like fantasy just isn't that big a deal over there.
Maybe Saga:Age of Fantasy, Oathmark or Fantasy Hail Caesar will get more love, but I suspect you are in a minority!
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As has been mentioned old games don't have to die....what is stopping you from resuscitating your passion
It sounds to me like a) you used to love WFB and b) you have several armies - and I suspect that there are hundreds of folks out there in the same position
Why not use this forum, others and blogs to find others with like minded interests and rekindle your passion.
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I remember reading something that suggested that one of the motivating factors behind GW finishing up with WHFB was that poor sales, particularly in North America, was the real death knell. Seems like fantasy just isn't that big a deal over there.
Maybe Saga:Age of Fantasy, Oathmark or Fantasy Hail Caesar will get more love, but I suspect you are in a minority!
Oh definately in the minority. 40K was always more popular, even when I was playing fantasy...but there was still an active fantasy community. I stopped playing mid-6th edition, as many people started moving on to other things, and by the time 8th edition was around, things were very quiet all around when it came to big battles games.
I re-located to a new area about 6 years ago (central WI, USA...the hub of fantasy role playing). I immediately set about to find “open minded” (realizing that I’m not entirely open minded myself :)) miniature gamers, since I like to play a variety of less mainstream games. Open calls on game store sites garnered no interest. The few other gamers in my peer group I crossed pathes with were very different in their tastes and lifestyles, and the younger gamers here have absolutely no interest in “old school”, only things that are new and quick and easy to pick up and discard.
Trust me, my lament isn’t due to lack of trying. It’s frustrating to the point of not only letting things sit on the shelf...I’m actually to the point of just calling this a closed chapter in my life and “getting out of the hobby”.
There are better options (still not exactly what I’d like, but better) an hour + drive away...and in the days of my youth I traveled that far weekly. But just trust me when I say complications make that trip “impossible” without some sacrifices in other important areas.
I should say, my opinions and views are entirely based on my experiences and observations. I feel I’m fairly perceptive and social...but we all live in some form of bubble of limitations. For example, if after all my searching, I had found even a single likeminded, dedicated hobbiest, I wouldn’t have felt the need to make the initial rant, ha ha. But even though there are a lot of introvert aspects of this hobby, it’s the getting together, playing, sharing what you’ve done, and socializing with similar people that make it fun.
Sorry for the thread hyjack.
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I remember reading something that suggested that one of the motivating factors behind GW finishing up with WHFB was that poor sales, particularly in North America, was the real death knell. Seems like fantasy just isn't that big a deal over there.
I think it was poor sales in general. And I suspect that one of the reasons why the fluff wasn't as fleshed out for the initial version was to see if the market was still there for a fantasy game.
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There used to be an American set by a firm called Chipco that were pretty good, although I haven't played them for a while
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There used to be an American set by a firm called Chipco that were pretty good, although I haven't played them for a while
I recently bought Age of Hannibal by Little Wars TV which they acknowledge is based on Chipco fantasy.
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There used to be an American set by a firm called Chipco that were pretty good, although I haven't played them for a while
Yep, ironically called “Fantasy Rules!”. You can get the PDF for 3rd edition on their Facebook page. It used to be about $30, but I think it’s, like $20 now, and bundled with the tournament edition and Days of Knights (I think), which is a similar set of rules for medieval times.
Generally 15mm on 40mm square based elements.
BUT, I think the OP is looking for new and shiny. Plus it’s not available in a book, and no rank and file.
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OP, of my current (getting the axe soon) collection, that fit your criteria except they are OoP:
Armies of Arcana, Battlesystem, and Legendary Battles. AoA is the closest to Warhammer...but none of them have the same depth, charm, or fun factor that came with most GW games.
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Legions of Battle
https://crusaderpublishing.com
Hostile Realms
http://www.piquetwargames.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=6
Shadow Storm (Fantasy adaptation of Hail Caesar - PDFs in the files section of the group)
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1643545805919298?
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Hi,
Thanks for the suggestions so far, I think I'll wait and see what Oathmark and Saga: Age of Fantasy look like
Andy
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We've jumped from Warhammer into 9th edition.
It has enough Warhammer in it to not feel too alien to old Warhammer players but it is certainly its own thing now.
Has a largish community behind it, good support and everything is available for free.
If you want something physical in your hands to refer to (and I hear you there...) you'd have to print the rule set and army books out but they aren't the largest and you'd be able to print and bind all you need for not much money.
I'm not the biggest fan personally, but then I was frustrated with Warhammer by the time 8th edition was out as well, but some of the guys in our group are fanatical about it and feel that it is the natural successor to square base Warhammer.
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Does anyone know how to obtain 'Shadow Storm' information without a Facebook account? I have never had one, nor will I get one. Could not find information elsewhere online.
Thanks,
Kazimierz
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i myself are after a good set of fantasy rules that can handle large battles in 15mm/10mm . hordes of things aint a mass battle in my eyes with only 12 bases needed. what i want is a game with hundreds of figs and dozens of units on the table..
Could Impetus work i think a new edition is coming out soon?
I am Shocked that because a GW set of rules is out of print or or new edition turns up .
People stop playing there old set of rules because there no more up dates and its old school.. why is this such a big deal in fantasy wargaming ?
yet in historic its fine to play with rules 30 years old if they work why change ?
Happy gaming all Dave.v
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I am Shocked that because a GW set of rules is out of print or or new edition turns up .
People stop playing there old set of rules because there no more up dates and its old school.. why is this such a big deal in fantasy wargaming ?
yet in historic its fine to play with rules 30 years old if they work why change ?
Perhaps it's because so many people consider the GW rules to all be broken with rarely any hope of them getting 'fixed'..... With new army books always being released, and every few years a new edition of the game, the rules never settled. Every new release had the potential to unbalance and 'break' things, and attempts to remedy and balance these problems would always be controversial, applauded by some and hated by others. But there was hope.
My point is, back in ye old days of WFB, you were always looking forward to the new edition, or your army's new book, to 'fix' the problems that the massive, sprawling rule system always had. Always something to look forward to! Now, you either have to play an old edition of the game, where the problems are never going to be officially fixed, and you put up with it, or you have to fix them yourselves with massive house rule overhauls, by which point you might as well re-write the entire game yourself or just try an alternative ruleset!
I loved WFB when i was younger, though I knew no other way of wargaming at the time. The constant updating of the rules through new army books and editions was fun and exciting! You'd hear rumours about the next edition months before it hit, and when your army's turn for an overhaul came round you'd be giddy with excitement with the possibilities of rules fixes and new models, maybe entirely new units..... And crossing your fingers that they didn't totally mess it up! I remember being really bemused at some of the rules in the 6th edition High Elves rulebook. Remember 'Intrigue At Court'? Take one of the army's biggest strengths (high leadership generals) and negate it (which character would be the general was randomly determined), because... High Elves like politics??!!! I felt like us High Elf players were being trolled. Anyway, I digress....
Once the game stops chaotically evolving and you get to stand still and look at it for what it really is, and how it will be forever, unchanging.... You might start to think "hmm perhaps this isn't the best way to do things". Though coming to that realisation can be a hard and emotional experience ;)
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Does anyone know how to obtain 'Shadow Storm' information without a Facebook account? I have never had one, nor will I get one. Could not find information elsewhere online.
There used to be a web site, but it's been down for a while. Only discovered the Facebook group recently. Not sure if there's other sources.
i myself are after a good set of fantasy rules that can handle large battles in 15mm/10mm . hordes of things aint a mass battle in my eyes with only 12 bases needed. what i want is a game with hundreds of figs and dozens of units on the table..
Could Impetus work i think a new edition is coming out soon?
I am Shocked that because a GW set of rules is out of print or or new edition turns up .
People stop playing there old set of rules because there no more up dates and its old school.. why is this such a big deal in fantasy wargaming ?
yet in historic its fine to play with rules 30 years old if they work why change ?
I agree -- I've got no problem playing old games/editions. The potential problem is new players getting access to the rules. But if it's just a small local group anyway, that shouldn't be a major hurdle. I learned to play a lot of games before owning the rules. (Back when games typically had a GM running the show and teaching rules...)
That said... Warmaster was one of GW's better games, in my opinion. We played using 15mm figures.
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i myself are after a good set of fantasy rules that can handle large battles in 15mm/10mm . hordes of things aint a mass battle in my eyes with only 12 bases needed. what i want is a game with hundreds of figs and dozens of units on the table..
That's a good point about the figure scale in HotT. But there is a way round it - one I'm toying with at the moment myself: basing 15mm or 10mm figures on 28mm bases. I like 28mm HotT because it uses the width of a dining table (3'). But we often extend the dinner table to its full length to play games with three commands per side - either 24 AP each or 36 AP each.
So, if you take the 28mm horde element with 15mm figures that I've mocked up below, you could conceivably have 108 of these on one side (3 x 36AP). That's a lot of figures (perhaps 1,500?) - yet the game would work fine on a decent-sized dining table. And you could get even higher numbers with 10mm figures.
I'm thinking of going down this route myself as a way to use up the hundreds of 15mms I've got kicking around - the result of batch purchases when I was running D&D in 15mm in 2016. There are a few things - like the Magister Militum lizardman command turtle - that won't fit on 15mm HotT basing but would look comfortable on 28mm bases. And most of my 28mm HotT behemoth and dragon elements would work just fine in 15mm. I'd also be able to double up some of my 28mm warbands to make behemoth elements for 15mm - small ogres/large orcs as giants and so on.
I am Shocked that because a GW set of rules is out of print or or new edition turns up .
People stop playing there old set of rules because there no more up dates and its old school.. why is this such a big deal in fantasy wargaming ?
yet in historic its fine to play with rules 30 years old if they work why change ?
Couldn't agree more! The obvious exception, though, is HotT - the rule changes between editions are more like errata (two units swapped movement rates and one other clarification I can't recall). And it's still going strong. It seems to be the one fantasy game that's been consistently widely played since its inception without significant edition changes.
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Who made the figures above Justin?
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They're mainly Alternative Armies orcs with a few Magister Militum goblins (the ones with the textured bases).
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Thanks
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Hi I had it for sale for a tenner ,postage will be a killer as it’s heavy but I’m uk based as well. I only stopped the thread as wary of posting at this time of year so it will be for sale again end of January etc
Unless your desperate for it , I could post it out Friday as on half day then ?
This now in classifieds section
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Here is an example of what we mean for WARGAME FANTASY :
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=114497.0
And the fact that Warhammer Fantasy is no longer supported by GW, to us frankly it is neither hot nor cold (that is, we do not really care about it). We never liked that game system with the alternate turn, much better that of Fantasy Warriors, with the contemporary turn.
:)