Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: doctorphalanx on December 22, 2018, 12:40:06 PM
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Are there any good examples of pirate land battles during the 'Golden Age Piracy'. When I say battles I mean fights involving say 60 to 100 mem a side and upwards.
I'd quite like to model a pirate land force and their opponents but I'm not really interested in naval actions.
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There were many examples of significant pirate actions fought on land. Most notably the campaigns of Henry Morgan in the 1660's and 1670's when he invaded and sacked a number of important Spanish cities in central America and the Caribbean, including Panama City, Portobello, and Puerto Principe - events which involved many land battles. And if you've ever been to the Canary Islands on holiday, there's a rich history and archaeology of invasions by raiding parties of English and other pirates, and the defence of the islands against these predations in the C17th.
But really, I'd say it doesn't matter in any case.
Our idea of 'the golden age of piracy' - and particularly amongst wargamers - is conditioned almost entirely by fiction: a vast genre of novels, movies, TV series, songs, comics and so on - all of which have much more to do with what we think about pirates, than the real history of 'the trade'.
So if you want to fight pirates against pirates or against 'government' forces of one nation or another on land, rather than at sea, I think you'll find that's the scenario followed by pretty much all wargamers who play with pirates. There are ship to ship rules and mechanics, and I've played a few of those games, but unless you have a huge table, with 28mm figures it's hard to get a real sense of scale and the movement of the vessels. The rules also tend to get quite complicated. Land based pirate games tend to be much more scenic and much more fun :)
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"unless you have a huge table, with 28mm figures it's hard to get a real sense of scale and the movement of the vessels. The rules also tend to get quite complicated. Land based pirate games tend to be much more scenic and much more fun" And if you go with 15 mm figures you can actually do a decent representation of the larger land battles - and it is easier to do the floating actions, too. But, yes, pirate gaming is rarely very close to history - thankfully (they were, generally, some of the most despicable characters littering history).
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Ah, the 15mm fundamentalist cometh lol
Not every reference to 28mm is an attack on 15mm you know, but I do appreciate you feel neglected ;)
Of course you lose a lot of the character in the figures in the smaller scale. But you certainly get a better sense of a bigger picture overall, and I often think scenery looks more convincing in 15mm.
It’s simply that I have a collection of 200 or so 28mm pirates and ships. So that’s all I’m really qualified to comment on when it comes to wargaming pirates...
I did start a 10mm pirate collection too, for a real sense of grand scale, but my collaborators abandoned ship before the project had gathered up speed, yarrr! Scurvy rats >:(
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I'm thinking of a 28mm pirate band (and opponents) that would double as an historical force for The Pikeman's Lament (or Rebels and Patriots) or a fantasy force for Dragon Rampant.
As a fantasy force anything could go including fantastical elements, but as an historical force I'd want it either 17thC with broadbrimmed hats and matchlocks or 18thC with triciornes and flintlocks.
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The Blood and Plunder range by Firelock games is well worth looking into if you aren't familiar with them. The rules are also very good.
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The Firelock figures certainly look the part for the Buccaneer period but I will probably want to prioritise UK sources.
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This potential project has now firmly crystalised into two options:
(1) Buccaneer period using Blood and Plunder figures which I see are available in the UK from Wayland Games.
(2) Early 18thC using mainly Foundry and the North Star (On the Seven Seas) ranges.
This is a hard choice as they both have their attractions!
For the numbers involved in a Rampant style game (e.g. The Pikeman's Lament) I think the earlier period seems the more appropriate way to go.
Thanks to all for the advice and leads.
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Hi !
We must distinguish the second half of the 17th century (the Buccaneers) from the first third of the 18th century: the golden age of piracy
The Pirates are especially committed to merchant ships, buccaneers mount real expeditions (or are recruited to participate) against Spanish cities in America.(The "spanish main")
their leaders are either "individuals" (I think of Jean l'Olonnais or Henry Morgan) or officials (governors French or English)
These are armies of hundreds maximum 1700 / 1800 men.(In 1650's America this is a big army !)
Opposite, because of the European conflicts, the Spanish garrisons are often ill-equipped militias, badly paid and little seasoned, often they are even outnumbered: it will change in the 18th century. A state of peace is settling in Europe, at least long enough for Spain to strengthen its garrisons in America and for the French and English governors to be summoned by their government to reduce buccaneers. (It will be the pirates then who will take the respite)
An interesting point: among the Buccaneers, the French and Dutch dominate, the pirates are rather Anglo-Saxon;
As for our dear figurines, at Foundry you have at least 2 references of pirate pikemen, and all you need for the rest. If you take DBR, you'll find a Buccaneers army list. I myself have a project (yet another!) On this subject based on the expedition against Cartagena in 1697 between a French army mixing regular and buccaneers against the Spanish main's Cartagena, a large city protected by several small forts.
I advise you reading the book "Scourge of the seas" Osprey (I bought mine 3 dollars used!) And at Time-Life you have the collection "The SeaFarers" that used n ' is not expensive and has many volumes on this period ("The pirates", "The Spanish Main", etc ...)
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Most pirate rules only really cover land battles well; the only exception I've found is Blood & Plunder which blends land and sea very nicely. As others have said, there were some pretty large pitched battles involving pirate forces, with numbers in the thousands.
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Last year i was involved with the Warfare Miniatures / League of Augsburg games in Dumfries. They had a fun take on battles in the Carribean of the 17th Century.
http://leagueofaugsburg.blogspot.com/2017/07/battle-for-britain-inside-caribbean.html (http://leagueofaugsburg.blogspot.com/2017/07/battle-for-britain-inside-caribbean.html)
http://leagueofaugsburg.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-battle-for-britain-1693-fighting.html (http://leagueofaugsburg.blogspot.com/2017/07/the-battle-for-britain-1693-fighting.html)
http://leagueofaugsburg.blogspot.com/2017/10/fly-paper-attack-at-la-riviere-du-miel.html (http://leagueofaugsburg.blogspot.com/2017/10/fly-paper-attack-at-la-riviere-du-miel.html)
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Rnx0gYqLMmE/We9rUh-TE4I/AAAAAAAAIM8/AfeElcqBOtUP9n_DLb_e8bgrdcY0CZ0QwCLcBGAs/s1600/Lou%2BDeemer.jpg)
Some Buccaneer types involved as well as “regular” armed forces. Great fun.
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Cartagena looks like a good peg to hang things on - a large land action for which the later-period Foundry figures could be used, and they are much cheaper in the UK than the Blood & Plunder ones.
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Cartagena looks like a good peg to hang things on - a large land action for which the later-period Foundry figures could be used, and they are much cheaper in the UK than the Blood & Plunder ones.
Agree :)
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The Foundry figures are pretty much the definitive pirates range (well in 28mm). Not bad at all considering they are almost 20 years old. And a huge range with about 200 different figures.
The Black Scorpion pirates are superb, but much larger (incompatible with Foundry in height, stature and style), also quite pricey, and now only available in resin, I think.
I like the look of some of the Blood and Plunder figures. Some of the poses though, not so much. I think they are also on the large size. Like 35mm, I think I read, although I could be wrong :)
I have a smattering of other 28mm pirate figures - Redoubt, Dixon, Old Glory. None of them are much cop. All pretty rudimentary in the old style...
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there is two small 28mm ranges from Crusader , Brigade games and NorthStar :
http://www.crusaderminiatures.com/list.php?cat=3&sub=7&page=1
http://brigadegames.3dcartstores.com/Buccaneers-Pirates-Privateers_c_205.html
http://brigadegames.3dcartstores.com/NorthStar-On-The-Seven-Seas_c_545.html
I think they could be mixed with Foundry ...
One interesting thing : some different gun crews with these small ranges
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It's useful to know of these other options but the Foundry range has so many figures it may not be necessary to turn elsewhere.
For French and Spanish regulars, how well do the Foundry Marlburians match the Foundry pirates?
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For French and Spanish regulars, how well do the Foundry Marlburians match the Foundry pirates?
I have some minies from the both ranges and they match perfectly !
I have some Malburians Casting Rooms minies and they are OK too !
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I have a few books on pirates (of varying quality and usefulness) and I've been following up on Cartagena 1697.
'Pirates: Adventurers of the High Seas' by David Marley has a useful chapter on the episode with some detail about the composition of the French side.
I get the impression from several sources that historical Buccaneer forces were essentially conventional pike-and-shot.
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I get the impression from several sources that historical Buccaneer forces were essentially conventional pike-and-shot.
Yes, but maybe with more shot than usual, the Buccaneers were hunters and they are good sharpshooters !
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The Foundry figures are pretty much the definitive pirates range (well in 28mm). Not bad at all considering they are almost 20 years old. And a huge range with about 200 different figures.
The Black Scorpion pirates are superb, but much larger (incompatible with Foundry in height, stature and style), also quite pricey, and now only available in resin, I think.
I like the look of some of the Blood and Plunder figures. Some of the poses though, not so much. I think they are also on the large size. Like 35mm, I think I read, although I could be wrong :)
I have a smattering of other 28mm pirate figures - Redoubt, Dixon, Old Glory. None of them are much cop. All pretty rudimentary in the old style...
The Foundry figures are very good, and there is a huge range. Like you, I'm not at all keen on some of the poses in the Firelock Games Blood & Plunder figures.
There are a lot of figures in bizarre poses with both knees bent that just look strange.
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I compiled a list with pirate manufacturers for 28mm (+/-2) a few years back: http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/2008/09/collecting-pirate-miniatures.html (http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/2008/09/collecting-pirate-miniatures.html).
It is pretty much complete I believe as I still keep it up-to-date. The only range that I think was not mentioned yet is the recently released Pirates of Treasure Island (https://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/2018/11/pirates-of-treasure-island.html) range from EOE which has some very nice characterful minis.
Personally, my favorite range is also the Foundry one. Lots of variety when it comes to poses, weapons and characters. I like some of the minis from North Star, too, and also some Dixon and Artizan. They all mix well. Here is most of my crew (painted by Simon Bradley):
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OShOm-sLhoA/WXclhE1KygI/AAAAAAAACps/ud0EeZa1gBMAB3LjSnVO0NEfuXGBdcpMACLcBGAs/s1600/4b.jpg) (http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/2017/07/pirates-at-port-of-gierburg.html)
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Now that’s some nice paint - love the subdued tones.
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cianty
This is a very useful resource that’s worth maintaining (and expanding?).
Great work on the modelling and painting.
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Great work Cianty : on the minies and on the buildings :-*