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Miniatures Adventure => Pulp => Topic started by: Arundel on December 26, 2018, 09:29:53 PM
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Well, I've run through a number of solo games and a few questions have arisen. I'll try to phrase them so that a "yea" or "nay" is all that's needed. Right then:
1.) Can a figure take an action and then move? For example, take a shot at the enemy and then move 6" - or do actions always come after movement?
2.) a.) When a character goes down, do they drop any carried plot points or is that only when they are eliminated from the game after a failed final Health check? I assume the item is only dropped if they are eliminated from the game. Correct?
b.) If a plot point is dropped by an eliminated character, does the next figure have to take a peril and challenge to pick it up again?
3.) a.) Dodge seems really powerful. If I am understanding correctly the number of Dodge dice never goes down (though it does reflect Health), no matter how many times it is used in a turn. So, with in mind, on a number of occasions a leader or sidekick (with 3d10 or 3d8 Dodge) has managed to dodge all comers; they almost seem untouchable by your average mook (Allies and such). Am I doing this right, or should it go down with multiple uses like Shoot or Brawl?
b.) If a character is surrounded by enemy figures, is there any way they can escape by using Dodge? (Sorry, breaking the yes/no rule here!)
I think I had a few more but these are all I can remember now. Thank you for any help!
Daryl
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If I remember rightly you can not shoot & then move.
When a character goes down they drop all plot points they are carrying unless it a no drop one or some other rule is in play.
You might just have had a run of good dice as I've never found dodge to be over powerful.
No I don't think so.
Hope that helps :)
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It is, Panama, very much so!
Remembered another question:
4.) Let's say I have a Sidekick with Quick Shot (down one die type +2d Shoot); he gets wounded, bringing his health down to d6, which means his Shoot is down to d6 as well. Is he no longer able to use Quick Shot, since there is no die type lower than d6? I think the answer is yes - that he can no longer use that skill until his Shoot die goes back up to d8. Hope that makes sense.
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Yes, to number 4.
I also agree with Panama with the answers to rest of the questions.
Now watch Dave to come along and tell us we have it all wrong. lol
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Reading over the rules, I'm not sure about the move and shoot ruling. The turn summary says that during the Act sequence that you may move, perform an action, or attack. This to me says that you can do only one of the three but in the text for shooting, there are modifiers for moving. The way I play is that you can actually move, shoot, and attack in a single turn but you have to declare so when you activate and take all appropriate modifiers. You can't however perform actions such as completing plot points if you move of use a combat skill. So the way I play, a model can shoot at someone, run up to an enemy, and then engage that enemy in a brawl but both the shooting attack and the brawl attack will suffer modifiers for both multiple uses of a combat skill and the running modifier. If I'm playing it wrong, I'll accept being corrected but that's the way I see the rules as they are presented in the text of the rules rather than the summary.
William
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3.) a.) Dodge seems really powerful. If I am understanding correctly the number of Dodge dice never goes down (though it does reflect Health), no matter how many times it is used in a turn. So, with in mind, on a number of occasions a leader or sidekick (with 3d10 or 3d8 Dodge) has managed to dodge all comers; they almost seem untouchable by your average mook (Allies and such). Am I doing this right, or should it go down with multiple uses like Shoot or Brawl?
Daryl
I think this is on purpose. Pulp Alley isn't meant to be realistic. It's meant to simulate pulp adventures, and a staple of pulp adventures is the hero surviving against all odds. A quick example is the opening of Raiders of the Lost Ark, where Indy is fleeing from the Hovitos tribesmen. The tribesmen are throwing a great number of spears at him and quite a few of those spears end up embedded in Scot's plane, however Indy isn't hit by a single one. Why not, He made all of his dodge rolls. Keep in mind that dodging only saves you from damage. The source of that potential damage is still there and the law of averages means eventually you will fail a dodge roll. I think dodge is powerful, but it fits the spirit of the game.
William
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Gardensnake, Arundel question was could you shoot before moving not could you move & shoot, I don't believe you can & I think the reason for this is to stop players shooting & then moving out of sight.
My understanding of the rules is you can move & shoot or move (rush) & attack but can't both shoot & attack, I don't have a rulebook to hand but the above is how I've always played it, also from watching Dave's I don't ever recall him doing so.
To anyone reading this a good way to learn the rules for PA is to watch Dave's video's, apart form enjoying them I found it cleared up some rules I was doing wrong :)
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You cannot shoot and then move, it is always first move, then shoot. You can also run and shoot, but with a -1d modifier.
You cannot shoot and rush (going into close combat) within the same activation.
@gardensnake: I stumbled over the same sentence ( move, perform action, attack) when reading the rules the first time. Maybe it should be written as "a character can move and then perform an action or attack". So you can move and shoot or move and brawl or move and perform an action.
To answer the original questions:
1) no
2) a) yes, when a character goes down, he usually drops the plot points.
2) b) I think yes, but not sure
3) I don' t think dodge overpowered. Remember, it is still the use of a fight skill, so you do not loose a dodge dice, but you do loose a brawl and shoot dice every time you use dodge. Leaders and sidekicks are heroes, they are supposed to not going down easy!
If a character is surrounded, he still can slip out of the crowd with dodge. Remember many movies seeing the hero crouching out of a horde of brawlers...
4) yes, he can no longer use the skill.
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Hi
2-2b: The plot point is dropped when the character holding it goes down, or out (pg24) Anyone going after the dropped plot point must encounter it as one normally encounters a plot point, so a possible peril (or if extremely perilous a peril), and a plot point challenge.
3b: Must have a clear path to dodge move so if completely surrounded no dodge move (pg 15). Also unless you have the ability INTREPID, you can only dodge directly away from the attack you are dodging. You can always dodge, but you do not always get a dodge move.
Also remember if you recover from being knockdown you may place your figure an inch away from you melee opponent when your figure stands up, so you can be out of contact. Not going to help you if completely surrounded, but is a good thing to remember.
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Here is a reply to a question on Dave's Pulp Alley blog.
The question:
Can you move after an action or only at the beginning of your turn?
Dave's answer:
You may move before doing an action or fighting.
Performing an action or fighting ends the activate character's activation - so they can not move afterwards.
So it looks like to me, move first, then do an action.
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This has been extremely helpful. I'm happy to see I've been doing most of it right. lol Gardensnake, your example of Indy regarding the Dodge ability was most apt, and now I think about it, it makes sense.
Just for further clarification: A member of League A, carrying a plot point, takes a hit and goes down; later in the same turn (in other words, no health checks have happened yet to see if A is out of the game) - later in the same turn a character from League B runs up - can he pick up the dropped plot point, taking a peril and challenge as usual, even though character A might recover with a health check at the end of the turn? I assume the answer is yes.
Taking this one step further: let's say no one from League B reaches character A before the end of the turn; A passes his health check and is therefore up on his feet again; does he need to pick up the plot point again, taking another peril and challenge? I think the answer is no.
Many thanks again, lads, this has really helped clarify things. I'll try and watch some more of those videos as well. They're great fun!
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Hi again
Once dropped a plot point is once again up for grabs. To pick it up, or retrieve it, one must go through the usual process, peril, plot point challenge. This is of course assuming no special scenario rules are in place, such as no-drop plot points.
Oh and just to clarify a health check when injured using health die, recovery role at end of turn using D6.
My earlier reply was just to clarify any of the erroneous answers & lingering questions. (I have the rule books beside me, and have played this game a lot) The responses to your other questions were answered correctly, so I did not address any of your other questions.
Great to see all this interest in the game, I am a big fan, and I am currently working on setting up our groups 4th campaign, The Lost World of Lemuria!
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Here is some information about the last questions from Arundel.
jetFromNL wrote:
I'll continue this thread with my own Peril questions. Before I do, I didn't realize that characters could help each other with the same Plot point. In that case, how do you determine which character take the Plot Point after the Challenge is complete?
As to my question, it concerns when a character carrying a Plot Point goes down. If an enemy approaches the downed character, I know they must pass the associated Challenge. However, I was also wondering...
1. Would a friendly charactacter have to pass the challenge?
2. Would the enemy player be able to play a Peril before the Plot Point was searched again?
Dave's answer.
Yup, check out the rule for "Long Actions". If one character starts working on a Plot Point and then a colleague comes along and finishes it - it is the second character that takes the Plot Point.
1 & 2) Yes, once a plot point becomes uncontrolled, then it is handled just like any other uncontrolled plot point.
Now, this is just the best way to handle it within the context of the basic scenarios. There can certainly be special rules relating to specific plot points, based on your own scenarios/stories.
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Well, I've run through a number of solo games and a few questions have arisen. I'll try to phrase them so that a "yea" or "nay" is all that's needed. Right then:
1.) Can a figure take an action and then move? For example, take a shot at the enemy and then move 6" - or do actions always come after movement?
2.) a.) When a character goes down, do they drop any carried plot points or is that only when they are eliminated from the game after a failed final Health check? I assume the item is only dropped if they are eliminated from the game. Correct?
b.) If a plot point is dropped by an eliminated character, does the next figure have to take a peril and challenge to pick it up again?
3.) a.) Dodge seems really powerful. If I am understanding correctly the number of Dodge dice never goes down (though it does reflect Health), no matter how many times it is used in a turn. So, with in mind, on a number of occasions a leader or sidekick (with 3d10 or 3d8 Dodge) has managed to dodge all comers; they almost seem untouchable by your average mook (Allies and such). Am I doing this right, or should it go down with multiple uses like Shoot or Brawl?
b.) If a character is surrounded by enemy figures, is there any way they can escape by using Dodge? (Sorry, breaking the yes/no rule here!)
I think I had a few more but these are all I can remember now. Thank you for any help!
Looks like most of this was answered already, but I'll chime in as well ---
1. No. If you are going to move then it is done before you perform an action or attack. Note, a character's activation ends automatically after resolving an attack or action.
2a. Yes. When a character goes down, they automatically drop all plot point they are holding (except no-drops).
2b. Yes. Picking up an uncontrolled plot point is resolved the same way - whether it was dropped or not. And even if the same character gets up and goes for their own dropped plot point again.
3a. Remember that you must roll equal or higher to cancel an enemy dice. For example, if a Dodger rolls three 4's and the enemy rolls three 5's, then the Dodger takes three hits. Here are a few other things to consider...
> Some players really like to dodge and some think it is useless. The truth is somewhere in the middle. If you use Dodge too much, the opponent can easily change their tactics to take advantage of it. For example, I frequently use Allies/Followers to block a plot point so the opponent cannot get the plot point simply by dodging.
> "almost seem untouchable by your average mook" -- Leaders and Sidekicks are intended to be larger-than-life. Think of The Shadow, Doc Savage, Indiana Jones, and so on. The idea that these guys are going to get taken out by a couple mooks is not very likely. We play frequently, and if you've seen any of our videos on YouTube - sometimes Leaders/Sidekick do appear near untouchable when I roll good. And sometimes they get clobbered and are knocked-out. In general, Leaders will normally survive until the end of most scenarios, but not always. ;)
3b. No. A character cannot move through an enemy model, so you cannot disengage if you are surrounded.
... later in the same turn a character from League B runs up - can he pick up the dropped plot point, taking a peril and challenge as usual...
Yes, you assume correctly. An uncontrolled plot point can be grabbed as normal.
Taking this one step further...let's say A passes his Recovery check and is therefore up on his feet again....
You are correct again. The plot point is now uncontrolled, so he may go for it again - but it is resolved as normal.
I am glad you are enjoying Pulp Alley. I think we've done a better job of explaining many of these rules in the second edition rulebook.
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Thanks very much, Dave, for taking the time to give the authoritative word. I'm having a lot of fun with the rules, though mistakes happen: one of my biggest struggles is remembering who has which cards - not sure if this is more or less likely playing solo. At any rate, I'm working on this.
I'd guess a few of you might sympathize, but I find myself trying to create leagues in my head (generally when I should be doing something else!), from all sorts of sources. Recently I wondered how I'd stat Tintin; today, it's Bugs Bunny, or Daffy, or Marvin the Martian (I know, I know - better not to ask...). All round good fun, and clear evidence the rules have me thinking!
Many thanks again to all who took the time to reply!
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I stand corrected. I think one of the reasons for my confusion is that I didn't consider the use of combat skills actions. I was under the impression that actions were things like resolving or picking up plot points and using special abilities. I think it's due to the fact that is what is covered on the page titled actions. I guess I was "rules lawyering" a bit. Thank You to Dave, Panama, Marine0846, and nandrin, for correcting me and doing so courteously. Also, I'd like to say thank you to Arundel for posting the original question that allowed me to stick my foot in my mouth. Had he not done so, I would continue to play the game incorrectly. We both learned from this thread.
William :)
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Your welcome Gardensnake always happy to help when I can :)
Show me a gamer who never got a rule wrong & I'll show you a gamer who never played a game lol lol
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Thank you all again. Just had a great PA game, feeling much more confident!
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That's great.
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I stand corrected. I think one of the reasons for my confusion is that I didn't consider the use of combat skills actions. I was under the impression that actions were things like resolving or picking up plot points and using special abilities. I think it's due to the fact that is what is covered on the page titled actions. I guess I was "rules lawyering" a bit. Thank You to Dave, Panama, Marine0846, and nandrin, for correcting me and doing so courteously. Also, I'd like to say thank you to Arundel for posting the original question that allowed me to stick my foot in my mouth. Had he not done so, I would continue to play the game incorrectly. We both learned from this thread.
William :)
Actually you were correct the first time, combat and actions are two separate things you can only do one or the other after moving (or standing still) May sound like semantics but some abilities (Goon, Beast) prevent actions, but allow combat. :)
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Another: ;)
Can a figure run his 12" and then brawl an enemy? I assume the answer is no, though the enemy figure would then still be considered engaged.
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Another: ;)
Can a figure run his 12" and then brawl an enemy? I assume the answer is no, though the enemy figure would then still be considered engaged.
I don't have the rules handy, but I believe that you can, as, for example, running into contact in order to brawl (I forget the PA term) is effectively the only way for armoured characters to run.
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yup, you can run (rush) up to 12" and initiate brawling, with no penalty.
However if you are more than 3" from the target of the rush, the target can choose to shoot (with +1D for close range), or stand and brawl.
You cannot run and do an action.
FYI
If you run and shoot you get -1D.
:)
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Ah, I've been doing it wrong then. Thank you!
Just played a slightly tweaked "Bloody Sacrifice" scenario from Perilous Island. Crikey, that Gonga is a brute - even after dropping the Unstoppable ability (which I believe has been eliminated from the game), he still ripped apart the opposing side's sidekick and an ally or two. Glad it was the other fellas! Tremendous fun.
I'm really enjoying the rules (if you couldn't tell lol ). Still having trouble keeping track of cards that attach to characters - I find in the heat of battle I forget them about 50% of the time - and sometimes wish it was a little easier to disengage, but all else is good; and even with those caveats it is probably a learning curve thing more than anything else.
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Can a figure run his 12" and then brawl an enemy? I assume the answer is no, though the enemy figure would then still be considered engaged.
I think this was already answered perfectly, but here's my two-cents anyway....
Yes, you can run and fight. In fact, if you end you move in contact with an enemy this automatically starts a brawl. This is not optional.
Remember, fighting is not an action. For example, you can run and fight. But you cannot run and perform an action.
Because Pulp Alley is much more than a skirmish game, we wanted a specific term for "all the other stuff" characters do - other than fighting. Actions are intended to be those things that might require a bit more time or concentration. Things that you just wouldn't do at a run.
And I still forget to play cards sometimes. ;)
Hope that helps. Have fun!
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Ah, I've been doing it wrong then. Thank you!
Just played a slightly tweaked "Bloody Sacrifice" scenario from Perilous Island. Crikey, that Gonga is a brute - even after dropping the Unstoppable ability (which I believe has been eliminated from the game), he still ripped apart the opposing side's sidekick and an ally or two. Glad it was the other fellas! Tremendous fun.
I'm really enjoying the rules (if you couldn't tell lol ). Still having trouble keeping track of cards that attach to characters - I find in the heat of battle I forget them about 50% of the time - and sometimes wish it was a little easier to disengage, but all else is good; and even with those caveats it is probably a learning curve thing more than anything else.
Yeah he did us in too! lol
Must have eaten the camera man as we only had a couple of photos from the game!
Hiding was the best plan, those other guys in the pictures did not last too long...
Organizing is a challenge, we use card racks to hold our fortune deck cards, and our character records are kept on a white board with magnets, so we can 'attach' via magnet any condition cards or reward cards onto the characters.
It helps but only so far, things can still get confused in the heat of the moment. o_o
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Some of my friends who play Wings of War/Glory, prop up their cards using chalkboard erasers, the ones with a set of grooves in them, like this (but without chalk on them):
(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/chalkboard-eraser-picture-id78405201?s=612x612)
Also, many here may not realize that there is a Pulp Alley forum with a rules section. Easier to find previous answers by Dave there, as that forum isn't as large as the one here. Check it out:
http://pulpalley.com/index.php
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Actually you were correct the first time, combat and actions are two separate things you can only do one or the other after moving (or standing still) May sound like semantics but some abilities (Goon, Beast) prevent actions, but allow combat. :)
Thank You for pointing this out. At least I wasn't a complete idiot :)
William
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Yeah he did us in too! lol
Must have eaten the camera man as we only had a couple of photos from the game!
Hiding was the best plan, those other guys in the pictures did not last too long...
Organizing is a challenge, we use card racks to hold our fortune deck cards, and our character records are kept on a white board with magnets, so we can 'attach' via magnet any condition cards or reward cards onto the characters.
It helps but only so far, things can still get confused in the heat of the moment. o_o
Okay,
I have to know, where is the giant gorilla model from? I've been looking for a good giant gorilla and so far have only found the Reaper one to my liking but that thing is expensive.
William
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That eraser idea is brilliant! I love it when gamers get creative! lol
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I believe I found the gorilla at Michael's, it was not expensive (especially with one of their coupons) but it was bought a few years ago. That is the model off the shelf, since those pictures were taken I have slapped on some paint to try and enhance it...
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Voila, I think:
https://www.schleich-s.com/en/US/wild-life/products/gorilla-male-14770.html
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Thanks for posting that WuZhuiQiu! I did not think I shelled out for a gorilla by them as they tend to cost more, but it does look like what I own.
Like the idea about chalk board erasers warrenpeace, I even had some of those and never saw the possibilities...
I have added an image below of what we use.
Also, for any who care, I have posted some pictures & info on my blog demonstrating some of what we do to help us to stay organized when playing Pulp Alley.
http://menelduir.blogspot.com/2018/12/some-of-aids-we-use-to-help-stay.html#more (http://menelduir.blogspot.com/2018/12/some-of-aids-we-use-to-help-stay.html#more)
Just as an aside, one of the truly odd aspects of my life is that I am surrounded by chaos, any of the group that game in my basement can attest to how messy it can be, and yet for some reason I try to impose order into our Pulp Alley gaming, go figure.
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I just love these kind of insights into how people organise their games. In my crowded shed, there always seem to be bits of paraphernalia everywhere during a game so I’m very much looking forward to reading your blog post and seeing what ideas I can steal.
Doug