Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: JamesValentine on December 30, 2018, 10:21:43 AM
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Nope
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Converted fictional Rubicon SU-122.
This unfortunately has not been very popular amongst those I've shown it to so far and has received more negativity than the last Beutepanzer.
So I'll probably not do any more and stick to generic stuff as it's quite depressing after all the work. But being called unimaginative isn't fun really.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2eugy1u.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/spge1v.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/296kky9.jpg)
(http://i68.tinypic.com/xzs0i.jpg)
It's a nice build with a great paintjob; I suppose the negativity comes from the choice of a tank which is not known to have been used as a Beutepanzer? So what, it's more likely than any sci fi or fantasy setting (and I love both, so I'm not criticising these!), and last I checked wargaming has a lot to do with 'what if' scenarios.
Ignore the critics and paint on. I am painting up a 15mm scale Tortoise for a desert setting (in which it will most likely sink in the sand...), and that's far more far-fetched! Keep them coming - at the very least (and VERY selfishly!) because I'm enjoying these :D
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I'm not sure why it's considered unimaginative, considering the Germans habit of using anything they could get their hands on, I'm still wanting to make a Sherman firefly in German service after seeing photos of one.
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I agree with the others - it's a very nice job of converting and painting. If you yourself are happy with it, don't care what others say.* Certainly if someone says unimaginative for what anyone does in this hobby (as every painted miniature is pretty much unique anyway) then they're probably just revealing they don't have any themselves.
* Yeah, you should ignore the compliments as well. :P
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I'll add my support. A very nicely converted and a believable conversion. The parent SU-122 on the T-34 chasis was used by the Germans as were the SU-85 and SU-100. So why not?
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Nice conversion and paint job.
The reaction you have experienced is unfortunate. I am not sure why anyone would think it was unimaginitive.
My only thought on this (and other similar conversions) is at what point they should migrate to the next sub-forum?
Please keep on with the interesting conversions, I would be interested in your version of a German build T34 (KWK42 L/70, cupola, etc.).
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WWII has a sub forum?
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WWII has a sub forum?
My only thought on this (and other similar conversions) is at what point they should migrate to the next sub-forum?
I meant the Weird War sub forum
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?board=8.0 (http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?board=8.0)
WW2 does have a sub forum - Victory Decision, but I have never been there.
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It is amazing and besides .. I do not agree, I know there is no picture proof of this tank being used as a beutepanzer but heck, how can we know? So it isn't proven nor disproven by historical facts so ... But some research tells me that they were infact used in 1945 or something so ... They might stole those, they might didn't but it is an amazing model and paintjob and you should be proud of it
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I am being divided... on one side the conversion work in painting is extremely nice. On the other side, with so many real oddball vehicles, I do not really care for fake beutepanzers (as i do not care for paper panzers). Certainly criticizing you for being unimaginative lacks imagination in the least.
It is well painted and well executed (and the pictures show a professional approach... how much I would like for mine to be the same!), is clearly labelled as fictional. It is not a crap paintjob, passed for historical in a crap picture... (as I said about a ISE class CV conversion in a picture censed to represent a 1942 Japanese force... but that was facebook...).
Sorry to hear that you have been subjected to negative comments.
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I'm just thankful to not be on facecrap so I don't post it on the UK bolt action group.
The hate from them borders on psychopathic.
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I can understand your frustration. If you want to chuck it all in
let me know & I will send you my address (i.e. please give then to ME!!!!)
Keep up the great work & posting the same.
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I always thought that in art it was all about the execution of what the artist imagines, not to merely copy reality. For me then, it is well painted and looks just like the 'real thing' would if it was. Well done!
I imagine a few people pointed out that eyes should be one either side of the nose to Picasso, or that you can't wear sunglasses with only one ear to Van Gogh, or that cows were prettier seen from the outside to that other fella; they all went their own way in spite of the critics.
Interesting to know that BA players actually do have a historical line that must not be crossed though. ;)
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Very cool looking! Where did you get the extra wheels?
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Very cool looking! Where did you get the extra wheels?
The Rubicon T-34/85 has some spare solid wheels from the sprue it shares with their 76.
The 76 from Rubicon would also have spare spoked or solids if you decide to use one set over another.
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Unimaginative? What? What a load...
Tank's fine. Painting and conversion seem perfectly decent to me.
As has been said, the Germans would use damn near anything they could and a captured SU being pressed into service would have hardly been a stretch considering heavy German use of casemate tanks and experience with other Russian tanks on the T-34 platform.
Lord protect us from idiot purists... ::)
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Lord protect us from idiot purists... ::)
Quite so, its a damn fine piece of work and the nay-sayers can poke it up their collective tight bottom's :o
Keep up the good work, and don't give a damn what others say
Glen
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I love that!. I have little knowledge of ww2 vehicles but calling you unimaginative for something that may never have been a beautepanzer seems contradictory to me. Nevertheless it looks great and if I gamed in ww2 or had a display case I'd happily show that piece off.
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The SU-122 on T-34 chassis was used by the Germans:
(http://www.oocities.org/pentagon/quarters/4635/tanks/t3476/su122.jpg)
(http://modelhobby.pl/img/wydawnictwo/_1_49_14_1mEierma_051.jpg)
Then there was the Furher Befehl that ordered as many anti-tank weapons should be self propelled as possible. So a captured Su-122 with damaged gun married to a damaged Panther with incact gun by an enterprising Field or base workshop.
There are not many records of SU-122 being used by the Germans and even fewer photos. But it has to be remembered that many German records were lost particularly in the East. As my History professor often said - "Always remember that absence of evidence is never evidence of absence".
So carry on making interesting and imaginative vehicles. I do though not nearly as well made as yours:
Completely fictional SdKfz 234/6 APC (made from 2 very badly damaged Airfix models)
(http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Inch_High_Club/WW2_Rerb_Germ/DSCF9615.JPG)
Another, an equally fictional SdKfz 234/7 8cm Mortar carrier
(http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Inch_High_Club/WW2_Rerb_Germ/DSCF9621.JPG)
And I have a kit ready to become the SdKfz 234/5 Flak
If anyone has any spare Airfix 234's lying about in almost any condition I'll be interested in them to create even more fictional variants! - Pionier, Ambulance, Command, more (different) APC types.
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Totally agree. If those interested in the subject (as I am), then the beutepanzer.ru website is well worth a visit.
For the SU-122 there are the following pages:
http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/su/color/SU-spg/su-t34based.htm
http://beutepanzer.ru/Beutepanzer/su/su-122/su-122.htm
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Lord protect us from idiot purists... ::)
Aren't we going as bit to the other extreme? I think the problem here were not the purists (call me idiot purist, but I will never game with that thing or allow an opponent to get it on the table), but people gratuitously attacking James' work and defining it 'unimaginative' (okay consider he imagined the whole thing... ).
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Or allow an opponent to get it on the table
Don't worry. That's one of the biggest reasons I game alone with toy tanks and avoid the Bolt Action community as much as humanly possible lol
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Well I add to add the disclaimer to the table sentence 'except by agreement on both sides and in a plausible scenario' . The original version was too much... fanatical... lol
I also do not play Bolt Action (the community seems polluted, even in Italy from what I have been told).
My comments on allowing opponents... well it is a lovely fictional vehicle you have created yourself, but if we are playing a pick up game... let's say Battlegroup or CoC and you put it on the table... well we can end in countelss debates. On the other way if you have crafted a awesome scenario (or we have done it together) and the vehicles as a role and a meaning in the scenario... it is different. But the fact we are using fictional stuff has to be agree beforehand (to avoid lot of discussion... done it with my cousin years ago for fun... turned out it was less fun that both of us expected... not sure if it was the fictionalized stuff spoiling the atmosphere, or the fact we were using fictionalized stuff to get unduly edge over each other...).
But I think one of the issue run deeper, I feel awkward at 'bastardizing' historical vehicles (but not at the actual historical bastardizations... Kommando Becker anyone?). I also have issues at the idea 'use a spare barrel' it has to be balanced, the trunions had to fit, the sights aligned, blah, blah, blah...
Instead one thing that always enthused me are the 'potential buys', vehicles or ships that could have been fielded by an operator (because they were bought but not delivered, contract not finalized, discussed and then moved on...). The Classical example is the plausible idea of Polish S-35 (what a nasty surprise for Fitz Panzer Is from another thread), continued Sino-German cooperation past 1938 (and no Soviet mass arms sale to the GMD).
Or Republic of China Ansaldo Heavy Cruisers... (what a Chinese 8" armed gun cruiser would have done in Shanghai in 1937?).
But certainly I think your talent is wasted in imaginative vehicles... :D