Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Captain Blood on January 19, 2019, 09:28:27 PM
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So today, I have been trying to paint some figures using a (previously hardly touched) bottle of Army Painter Warpaints Vampire Red.
I have shaken it and stirred it to no effect. It is thinly pigmented, glutinous, translucent shite. And dries shiny. Probably the worst paint I've ever had the misfortune to put on a brush. It's like painting with jelly. It makes some cheapo craft acrylic paint (also usually thinly pigmented and glutinous) look like premium matt emulsion.
Is anyone out there actually painting figures with this useless cack? Or do I just have a completely duff bottle?
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yeowza! not gonna put that on my "gotta-have" list.
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Interesting.
I was about to say how I use a mix of vallejo and army painter, and was about to leap to their defence... But just now looking at the ones I regularly use, the only AP one is a wash...
I did just last week buy some new paints of both brands, and have tried one of the AP ones (chaotic red), and it didn't seem great.... I had put it down to not shaking it well enough, but maybe that's not it?
You may be right.
Vallejo > army painter.
The one AP product I love is their dark tone wash (the wash, NOT the dip of the same name). I use it in large quantities mostly for armour and horse flesh. But it also gets used on various clothing and other stuff. I just finished an old bottle and started a new one halfway through a batch of figures, and was horrified to find it completely different - very glossy when the last bottle was really matt, and doesn't flow nicely. I THINK it's because I'd forgotten to shake it........ But I'd be interested to hear if anyone else is having problems with AP products right now. As it is the dark tone wash is the only thing I really like from them, and if they've gone and changed the recipe......
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Have recently bought some paints but haven't used them yet although I have used their washes and the recipe has certainly changed in comparison with some time ago. The wash doesn't flow as well and has a strange consistency compared with their older strong tone of which I used quite a number of bottles. Currently using the new ones as I bought a couple in one go but less happy to use those.
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I use the soft tone and flesh wash without problem, but having the gleaned from the web that you have to shake the living daylights out of the paints to get a decent mix I have not tried them.
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I have a few of their inks (now rebranded to washes, but I think basically the same product) and they’re fine. As you say, Charlie, great on armour.
But the paint, dear God, the paint. Absolutely awful. I only have two bottles to be fair - a black, which has a reasonable level of pigmentation and opacity, but dries shiny. But the claret red - it’s just a horrible, thin, glutinous gel. Absolutely hopeless >:(
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a black, which has a reasonable level of pigmentation and opacity, but dries shiny.
Yes, I remember I did find their black to be too shiny, and made the note to stick with Vallejo for black.
I find buying paints to be pretty much pot luck in terms of brands and colours (which never seem to be as they are advertised). Most of the ones I use the most I have found by chance. But I've ended up with quite a few I've never used and likely never will.
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I bought their Desert Yellow bottle to match their Desert Yellow primer. I was thrilled at the match until I used it. Thin and translucent. Utterly unusable. Had to switch to a comparable Vallejo color.
The washes are excellent however.
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I've used AP Black without problem and I have a few others to for which I cannot vouch.
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Although I don't have any experience with this brand of paints,
but the same thing sometimes happens to me with regular Vallejo paints - the paint dries shinny and it's more translucent than usual
I don't know if this happens because the paints are old or it they were badly conditioned (temperature, humidity, something else?????), but something leads them to their ruin...
additional experiences with this effect are welcome! :)
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Thin and translucent. Utterly unusable. Had to switch to a comparable Vallejo color.
Okay, thanks. Not just me then...
I am just amazed that a range of paints supposedly designed expressly for wargames figure painters, seems to lack the essential qualities required for painting wargames figures - high opacity, high pigmentation, smooth consistency and fluid flow from the brush onto the miniature, and a flat matt finish. The Army Painter paints appear to tick none of these boxes. Which is a pretty dreadful indictment...
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Okay, thanks. Not just me then...
I am just amazed that a range of paints supposedly designed expressly for wargames figure painters, seems to lack the essential qualities required for painting wargames figures - high opacity, high pigmentation, smooth consistency and fluid flow from the brush onto the miniature, and a flat matt finish. The Army Painter paints appear to tick none of these boxes. Which is a pretty dreadful indictment...
I am going to test all my bottles tonight as I do not recognize these problems except perhaps 'high pigmentation'.
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I have used a few of their paints with no real problems. I tend to transfer from the dropper bottles to the more familiar pots, add an agitator and away I go. Charadon grey I think it's called is my go to colour to shade armour, with a little matte medium added, lovely stuff. Their black was fine for me. Reds I often find need two coats, whatever the brand, maybe it's just the red pigment in general? Same with a few yellows come to think of it. Still prefer coat d'arms as my default paint choice, but AP has been okay too. Could be a batch problem?
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Interesting - I've literally just started trialing them because I can get them locally.
So far nothing untoward but if there's a weakness I would expect it to be in the warmer colours.
Results so far are nice and matt with pretty decent flow but I'm using a pallette that leans towards blues, yellows and purples (all 'cold').
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/6964/ebuH3G.jpg)
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Interesting - I've literally just started trialing them because I can get them locally.
So far nothing untoward but if there's a weakness I would expect it to be in the warmer colours.
Results so far are nice and matt with pretty decent flow but I'm using a pallette that leans towards blues, yellows and purples (all 'cold').
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/6964/ebuH3G.jpg)
Rock'n skellie there, Keith. GW? I do not have much good to say about the Age of Sigmar ranges except the undead.
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For what it's worth I emailed Army Painter yesterday about my own problems with the dark tone wash, basically politely asking if they'd changed the recipe or something.
Got a reply today - they didn't know anything about why I'm having problems, but asked for my address so they could send me some replacement bottles. So that's good!
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I've got a few but always store them upside down so the pigment and carrier separate. Just use the pigment and thin with Vallejo Glaze Medium
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I've only ever bought one bottle so can't really comment. But...
(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/6964/ebuH3G.jpg)
...The skellie is brilliant. :)
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I have shaken it and stirred it to no effect. It is thinly pigmented, glutinous, translucent shite. And dries shiny. Probably the worst paint I've ever had the misfortune to put on a brush.
About a year ago I bought ~10 of their paints, plus many of their washes/inks. The washes/inks were excellent (even better than P3 inks IMHO) and would buy again. The actual paints were horrible. No matter how much I would shake the paint bottle, the paint would come out as thin, watery or gelatinous blobs, with some paint flecks there and here. Even on a palette I couldn't get the ingredients to mix properly into a smooth consistency!
It was wintertime back then and I wonder if the AP paints contain some ingredients vulnerable to frost damage. Most acrylic paints should be as such immune to frost damage, but some paint additives are vulnerable to frost damage. I have been painting miniatures since 1997 and have never ever encountered that same issue with Citadel, Miniature Paints, Tamiya, Decorlack, Coat 'd Arms, P3 or Stynylrez colours, no matter what time of the year the paints were bought or ordered by mail.
Edit: Keith you're a master painter!
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I've used AP paints quite a lot over the last few years and in the main I've been very happy with them. I have had a few duff bottles but I've had that with Vallejo as well.
What I will say is that I'm not sure if they have changed their recipe or something because they do seem to need more shaking than they used to.
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Well it seems that the thin, gelatinous experience is not that uncommon with this product...
Like you Jon, I also store all my paints upside down and just draw off the thick stuff for painting. This works a treat with Vallejo bottles.
Unfortunately with the Army Painter paint in question, there is no thick stuff - it’s just an entire bottle of uniformly thin, under-pigmented jelly ::)
Sounds like your approach is the best one Charlie... Let’s see if they can send me a bottle of paint that actually looks and behaves like paint, rather than a kind of gel...
(Do you happen to have their email address? :))
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No problems here. Vigorously shake the paints, and all that. Can also thin with their washes.
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I have the reverse problem. The few bottles of army painter I have are thick and chunky. The consistency of semidry wood glue really. And when I try to thin the paint so I can actually paint with it. It sort of separates.
I like their inks and use them by the gallon.
But it would seem that they really have some serious quality control issues with the paints.
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Likewise - it seems like the medium and the pigment split into unusable oil and tar. I only use them for scenery now as they are just a PITA in smaller amounts.
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I have a few that I use with Vallejo and Reaper, initially I thought they were 'greasy' but a good shake seems to have cured that and I find them as good a VMC and Reaper.
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I have had mixed success with Army Painter paints. Some seem to be good, and most seem to be very bad. If I have a choice I will not purchase any more.
I will stick with Vallejo, Reaper, Privateer Press, and Citadel, but the PP and Citadel get transferred to dropper bottles.
I also tried some of the AK, and MIG paints which I am very happy with.
I have mixed feelings with Scale 75. I find it a little to glossy, does not stick well and has a tendency to lift off the model if you do not let it dry fully before adding the 2nd coat.
I also will not buy paint in the winter, as the paint freezing can have a very bad effect on it. I have noticed that paints that I purchased through the mail in the winter separates easily, and goes bad fast. If I need paints in the winter time I get them from my FLGS only.
Dale
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I have had mixed success with Army Painter paints. Some seem to be good, and most seem to be very bad. If I have a choice I will not purchase any more.
I feel exactly the same.
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Same here, I also find AP subpar (apart from the washes and the matt varnish) and don't bother with them.
If people are looking for great alternative acrylics, I can really recommend the Italeri acrylics. Excellent coverage and even paints like white go on smooth without being chalky. Love them a lot!
It's this range:
(https://www.modelsandhobbies4u.com.au/uploads/84/Product/12954/itp.jpg)
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I have not used Army Painter very much (I have the sprays - which tend to be a bit on the thick side).
I did have some dud Vallejo way back when which sounds like the problem described in the initial post.
I have found the Stone Golem and Skeleton Bone to be fine. The Chaotic Red seems a bit odd.
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If people are looking for great alternative acrylics, I can really recommend the Italeri acrylics. Excellent coverage and even paints like white go on smooth without being chalky. Love them a lot!
Never heard of the range Malebolgia- thanks for pointing it out.
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Don't get me started on their sprays!
I have had nothing but trouble with their sprays.
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Agreed...they are so weird in behaviour. I've had so many different results with using the same spray can. And yes, I followed the instructions well and made sure the weather conditions were great. But even it was so hit and miss I stopped using them.
Funny thing is that the cheapest spray cans I can get over here are the best I have! For instance, the cheap gloss varnish spray has never ever gave my any problems...even when it was pouring, misty or freezing.
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I use them a lot and find them great. I'm no amazing painter though. If I don't shake it enough they are thin and translucent but then I usually just shake some more, not a huge amount, and they are fine. I wouldn't say they are thin at all when I use them. Quite the opposite in fact. Then again I'm no where near pro painting ability so...
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Don't get me started on their sprays!
I have had nothing but trouble with their sprays.
I love their sprays :) Such a time saver. I've only had bad experience with one can or the MANY that I've owned. I had been using a lot of AP washes and paints, but I did notice that the paints were on the thin side. Last summer I bought a paint shaker and I will never go without one again. Great for AP, reaper, Vallejo etc. I've even brought a few of the horrible gw paints back to life by putting in a little bit of medium and shaking for a reasonable amount of time.
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I don't have trouble with their sprays either. Their Skeleton Bone (or whatever it's called) doesn't cover great; if you try to get good coverage you end up with a satin finish that doesn't take other paint well. But other than that- no problems.
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I’ve had one black and one white come out like extra crunchy peanut butter (and I hate that stuff!). Found a bunch of their bottles to be rather thin and started moving to Vallejo instead.
AP do the job but there is a weird quality as previously discussed - I have now added glass agitator beads to all of mine and there’s been an immediate improvement.
AP Matt Varnish Spray and Matt Black I like a lot and I also make great use of their washes but for the paints it’s going to be a transition to Vallejo :)
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Okay, for the record, let me show you what I'm talking about.
Here are two figures, both undercoated with dark brown enamel spray, then each given one even coat of hobby paint, straight from the bottle.
Both bottles have been stored upside down, vigorously shaken, stirred, and then a blob of paint dispensed to the palette, and brushed straight on.
The maroon colour is Army Painter, the blue is Vallejo.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-250119115128-373291450.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-250119115128-373162456.jpeg)
As you can see, the Vallejo coat is flat matt, totally opaque, and highly pigmented.
The Army painter is none of these things. It is translucent - you can see through it - not opaque, it is nowhere near as tonally deep (irrespective of the colour itself, it is less intense because it lacks pigmentation), and it dries to a semi-shiny finish.
The AP also leaves small but visible ridges and lumps where the brushstrokes have passed, because of the glutinous property of the wretched stuff.
In short - it's shit. What more can I say?
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I think the picture says it all for you. :( A friend just picked up a full set of their paints. I will have to see if his cover as poorly.
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It's disappointing, but I don't think this is a properly fair comparison - I have almost all the reds from the VMC line, and except the flat red, in my experience neither would produce a similar result on dark tones as the mid and dark blue tones.
Still, I think it is a weak coverage, but most reds and yellows are unless you get nasty stuff like Cadmium into the mix.
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As ever, Chris, I admire your dedication to fairness. I fear in this case you may be defending the indefensible though ;)
Here he is again, this time with Vallejo 'Red Leather' (to the left) and GW 'Evil Sunz Scarlet' (right) - again, both products shaken, then one coat painted on straight from the bottle (well, via the palette), with no additions - just lightly brushed out to achieve an even coverage.
These are red/yellow spectrum shades, and I'm not sure they are any less opaque or flat matt than the previous Vallejo blue example.
I'll admit you do get a tiny bit of show-through by the undercoat here and there under the GW red; none at all under the Vallejo red-brown. But nothing like the shiny transparency of the AP product.
The fundamental problem with the AP paint is that you can't brush it out to achieve an even coverage. Because it's a thin, viscous glop, you just see straight through it. And it's exactly the same stuff from the top to the bottom of the bottle.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/577-260119134638.jpeg)
Why am I banging on about this? Because it amazes me that a product that is supposedly expressly designed for painting wargames miniatures, is so badly formulated for its intended task. I just think it's incredibly poor.
I agree their washes/inks are great, and their sprays are fine too in my limited experience. But their core product - small bottles of coloured acrylic paint designed for painting toy soldiers, do not appear to be fit for purpose.
Unless of course - to return to my original question - it's just the two bottles of Army Painter paints that I have that suffer from this failure. But to judge from many of the comments made above, I don't think this is just a rare duff batch... ::)
In short, it looks like they need to sort out their product.
Maybe someone will direct them to this thread.
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Having these as Lannisters then?
lol
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That's quite the difference, indeed. I must admit, though, that I only use the Army Painter Washes shades in the dripper bottles and their superglue.
Also, I didn't realize how much thicker you apply the paint than I do. That might explain the translucency on my side.
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I’ve had mixed results with AP as well. The sprays I’ve used work fine but the bottles of paint give me issues like others have posted.
And this is after adding agitators and using a vortex mixer with them to insure they are mixed! Some colors work fine and others are basically unusable.
I have had good results airbrushing them, however. They spray great and cover well using Liquitex Airbrush Medium to thin them.
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not having any AP paints (only one bad experience with a spray can long ago - but it was a bit RTFM I think ) I probably shouldn't comment, but not long back Nick Northstar told me on the frostgrave board that Kevin Dallimore has gone over to using AP paints - pretty sure that's what he said - haven't checked the post ... so go figure (if you'll excuse the pun) as we've all seen the results he gets...
particularly ironic for me, as I'd whipped myself up into a Dallimore-admiring frenzy, and, based in particular on one blog paints' review I read which stressed Foundry's superior pigmentation, and thinking Dallimore still used their triads, purchased £400 worth of Foundry paints last October...
Not sure if somethings changed with them, but I'm finding them thin and tending to shininess :'(
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I may try some bottles of Vallejo to compare myself when I next need a new bottle.
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It’s surprising how many brands of paint supposedly formulated expressly for painting wargames figures have those unlovely properties of ‘thin and tending to shininess’... ::)
I mean really, how hard can it be?
The only brands to date I have found to be reliably opaque and flat matt with a nice consistency are Vallejo (apart from a couple of rogue bottles out of, probably, well over 100), Citadel, and AK interactive. Plus my favourite, long discontinued craft paints, Inscribe...
All the rest, including several well known brands apparently favoured by several well known painters, I have found subject to the thin and shiny problem... :-[
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I've been using Scale75 for a while now, and while their metals are amazing I think I will go back to Vallejo. While matte, the Scale75s have terrible tooth and chip even when varnished and they split horribly in the bottles and take tons and tons of shaking.
In short, I agree with the Captain's point above.
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'tending to shinyness' is prob. being a bit kind - particulary as multiple coats are needed (certainly if you don't use a white undercoat anyway) ... but it does depend on the colour (I'm talking about current foundry paints again here - apologies, I know this is 'diluting' ::) things further ... )
With these foundry paints it's interesting - as they're the perfect consistency out of the pot (i.e. don't need thinning) - and maybe that's what they intend - that'll you be doing more than one 'thin' coat (which I think is the Dallimore mantra iirc).
On that score Captain Blood I am intrigued by your approach - your superb results are the envy of many on these boards, that's beyond question, and yet I thought the received wisdom is indeed 'thin coats' - which I've only accepted relatively recently myself after years of brush-destroying use of undiluted paint ...
However, back to the paints (foundry) themselves - and the difference qualitatively speaking is that, with GW/Citadel paints for example, you can thin them (using lahmian medium) and the pigmentation / opaqueness remains very good - considerably better than Foundry out of the pot by and large.
Also - as mentioned, Foundry paints can be glossy, while the lahmian medium helps to matt down the Citadel paints ....
anyhow that new italeri range looks interesting ... yet more paints ... dare I ... ?
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Thanks Bloggard. I do indeed use thin coats when it comes to building up highlight layers - but I still want a good degree of opacity, even from a thinned layer. That's then down to me to control the opacity - not down to the paint being incapable of providing the advertised coverage. And I certainly want my base coat to be solid and matt - not thin, translucent, shiny glop!
I appreciate that some painters enjoy the whole pseudo-alchemy of flow adjusters, matting agents, drying retardents, mediums, agitators and additives. Personally - old-fashioned I know - I like to be able to use paint as it comes, and not unreasonably expect it to be fit for purpose. If I want it thinner I'll add water. That's it.
If I buy a product that's meant to be matt, opaque, and have a smooth consistency suitable for painting miniature figures (with or without adding water to taste), I expect it to do what it says on the tin.
I don't expect to have to add all manner of unguents and solutions to compensate for the inadequacies of the manufacturer when it comes to formulating a product that's fit for purpose and lives up to the description on the bottle.
Sorry to sound so grumpy about this, but it's really piss-poor that so many miniatures paints are patently not fit for purpose. Many wargamers seem happy to just make allowances... They shouldn't have to.
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I've been using Scale75 for a while now, and while their metals are amazing I think I will go back to Vallejo. While matte, the Scale75s have terrible tooth and chip even when varnished and they split horribly in the bottles and take tons and tons of shaking.
Sorry to go off the original topic but if I was starting from scratch I'd use Scale 75 exclusively. Absolutely love them. They do take a bit of getting used to, for sure but once you have they're brilliant :)
Horses for courses, I suppose
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Given the way the thread has developed this may be of interest - https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2014/05/painting-tips-5c-matting-acrylics-with.html
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Sorry to go off the original topic but if I was starting from scratch I'd use Scale 75 exclusively. Absolutely love them. They do take a bit of getting used to, for sure but once you have they're brilliant :)
Horses for courses, I suppose
I don't know if I would use them exclusively but I really like them too. I haven't experienced the problems that Ogrob mentioned, yet.
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Late reply, but here's
AP Leather Brown and its brown Strong Tone wash,
AP Necrotic Flesh and Green Tone wash,
AP Berserker Red with purple Toxic Shader wash (from the Zombicide set), and
AP Daemonic Yellow with brown Soft Tone wash and Red Tone wash.
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/medium/img/cMp0XvSw0LG3UglSIx4Jc8J2cD0=/fit-in/500x500/filters:no_upscale()/pic3255043.jpg)
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/medium/img/T3RBQMqjWwASDY4f_xqoCEyEyCQ=/fit-in/500x500/filters:no_upscale()/pic2453533.jpg)
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/medium/img/YTP6e1u4dQYueqKkAb4LToPk3gM=/fit-in/500x500/filters:no_upscale()/pic2365726.jpg)
(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/medium/img/zlJMDRpV-qLVuWyhsapyznIFCBM=/fit-in/500x500/filters:no_upscale()/pic2836298.jpg)
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Sorry to go off the original topic but if I was starting from scratch I'd use Scale 75 exclusively. Absolutely love them. They do take a bit of getting used to, for sure but once you have they're brilliant :)
Thanks Jon. I've never come across them, will look out for them and give them a try.
While matte, the Scale75s have terrible tooth and chip
Ogrob, when you say 'tooth and chip', can you describe what you mean? Thanks.
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Given the way the thread has developed this may be of interest - https://blog.vexillia.me.uk/2014/05/painting-tips-5c-matting-acrylics-with.html
yep, saw that link in the windsor and newton matt varnish thread - brilliant info / research - but I think the point is that what you're finding you have to do is just way too exacting and time-consuming for most of us wanting to enjoy this hobby. And it's quite possible that ultimately 'most of us' are being unreasonable if that's the case, given the reality of how paints 'work' (certain parts of the spectrum as opposed to the other areas, as you mention etc) - I can see that.
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Thanks Bloggard. I do indeed use thin coats when it comes to building up highlight layers - but I still want a good degree of opacity, even from a thinned layer. That's then down to me to control the opacity - not down to the paint being incapable of providing the advertised coverage. And I certainly want my base coat to be solid and matt - not thin, translucent, shiny glop!
I appreciate that some painters enjoy the whole pseudo-alchemy of flow adjusters, matting agents, drying retardents, mediums, agitators and additives. Personally - old-fashioned I know - I like to be able to use paint as it comes, and not unreasonably expect it to be fit for purpose. If I want it thinner I'll add water. That's it.
If I buy a product that's meant to be matt, opaque, and have a smooth consistency suitable for painting miniature figures (with or without adding water to taste), I expect it to do what it says on the tin.
I don't expect to have to add all manner of unguents and solutions to compensate for the inadequacies of the manufacturer when it comes to formulating a product that's fit for purpose and lives up to the description on the bottle.
Sorry to sound so grumpy about this, but it's really piss-poor that so many miniatures paints are patently not fit for purpose. Many wargamers seem happy to just make allowances... They shouldn't have to.
ah right, I see Captain.
still a bit surprised tho' - as I've found (reluctantly) that I have to thin citadel and vallejo (i.e. good paints) even for the base, or it doesn't go on smoothly (i.e. too thick) - and wrecks brushes.
just shows - with different approaches and techniques proliferating it's pretty difficult to reach a consensus as to what constitutes (excuse me again!) good paint to begin with - although I don't think any of us can disagree with thin, translucent, shiny glop being crap.
think I've gone wrong in investing so heavily in just about every range of paints apart from Vallejo MC (I've got a fair number of GC which might not be same constitution). Damn pain, as I certainly can't afford to do so now.
can't help but feel the Foundry bulk order appears to have been a bad mistake... :( and obviously am not encouraged to try AP, Dallimore or not!
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FWIW my comments on AP paints are limited only to the colours I've used so far.
Totally behind the good Captain's comments regarding his experiences with these (and I also prefer to work without 'ungents' and additives :-) ).
Still need to try Scale75 myself having heard largely good things. A few years ago I invested in a large set of Reaper paints becuase a lot of my favourite painters at the time swore by them. Have also found them very binary - some colours are excellent but a few are unusable, at least by me.
I still default to Vallejo (Game and Model colour), Coat Des Arms (sp), Foundry (the older colours at least - WW2 colours didn't impress), GW (pretty consistent even if the pots are really horrible) and artists acrylics. Some of the ranges that I think are also produced in the Vallejo factory (Mig and Ammo) seem to have quite strange properties. Ammo have a really high pigment density so you can thin them to quite an extreme ammount but are quite grainy and I struggle with them.
One advantage I've found living in Germany are the huge number of local craft and hobby products available. I use a lot of spray paint rattle cans and have switched almost entirely to local brands that I can't pronounce :-). Coverage, colour and finish are exceptional.
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Thanks Jon. I've never come across them, will look out for them and give them a try.
Ogrob, when you say 'tooth and chip', can you describe what you mean? Thanks.
Even on a well primered, washed surface, and after a coat of matte varnish, I find that the Scale75 rubs off really easily with normal handling. Like the paint doesn't grip into the primer at all, but just dries on the surface. Compared to P3 and Vallejo it's been way more vulnerable to daily handling.
This is just the opaque colours, not the metallics. The metallics I would recommend over anything else I have ever used, they are utterly brilliant.
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Even on a well primered, washed surface, and after a coat of matte varnish, I find that the Scale75 rubs off really easily with normal handling. Like the paint doesn't grip into the primer at all, but just dries on the surface. Compared to P3 and Vallejo it's been way more vulnerable to daily handling.
I will have to keep an eye out for that. I bought the green set and have been very pleased so far; I plan to buy a couple more sets.
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How very confusing. I'm afraid I can add nothing to dispel the fog, or enrich the pigment, for that matter.
A couple of points which may be worth following up:
I can't find any sign of Italeri acrylic paints being available in the UK, other than some small pots with aircraft kits. They're not that new, but don't appear to have a UK distributor. As for eBay....don't bother.
Scale 75 have just announced a new range called Scalecolor Artist. More details on their Facebook page, apparently.
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Scale 75 have just announced a new range called Scalecolor Artist. More details on their Facebook page, apparently.
Indeed: link. (https://www.facebook.com/127998963919682/videos/346734542836939/)
I am intrigued...
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I can't find any sign of Italeri acrylic paints being available in the UK, other than some small pots with aircraft kits. They're not that new, but don't appear to have a UK distributor. As for eBay....don't bother.
https://www.1001modelkits.co.uk/
have a number of the italeri paints in stock - I've placed an order for a small selection and it is supposedly shipping today.
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I can't get beyond the announcement, as I am unknown to Facebook. I did belatedly notice that it is a Kickstarter campaign, which launches next week, so the paints themselves may be a long way off, or for that matter, never appear.
Thanks for the link to the 10001 Kits website, Bloggard - a new one to me. I'll be interested to hear your experience with the order, and the paints themselves.
No-one's mentioned Life Color, by the way. Now I have. I've used them, but not extensively enough to comment in detail on their properties, other than that they brush well and seem to give a smooth matt finish, but it's entirely possible I'm not using them properly.
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Even on a well primered, washed surface, and after a coat of matte varnish, I find that the Scale75 rubs off really easily with normal handling. Like the paint doesn't grip into the primer at all, but just dries on the surface. Compared to P3 and Vallejo it's been way more vulnerable to daily handling.
This is just the opaque colours, not the metallics. The metallics I would recommend over anything else I have ever used, they are utterly brilliant.
Not, for one moment, doubting you but I've had no issues like this at all. I don't 'over varnish' and those that know me will attest to how innately clumsy I am so none of my gaming minis are particularly carefully handled.
Is this happening on metal or plastic? Or both? I try to avoid plastic like the plague so wondering if that was the problem....
The only thing, I think, I do differently to you is store upside down* and just use the pigment; so perhaps it is the carrier that is causing the issue?
*This does, in fairness, cause a bit of nozzle clogging but nothing that a handy bit of wire won't fix
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Life Color
I got a few back in the day as they did some pretty obscure accurate WW2 colours before I realised that life was too short to be that precise and if it looked right, to me, that was grand :)
Didn't hate them, didn't love them. Nothing 'wrong' with them.... but do prefer paint in droppers. Did find they dried out quite quickly (compared to other brands) in the pot once opened. Haven't bother to replace them.
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They do tend to get overlooked, particularly by figure painters, for some reason. One may be that they're not as easy to find as Vallejo and Army Painter. I've even ordered some from Hong Kong, which seems bizarre, given that they're made in Italy. That was before I discovered this UK seller:
https://airbrushes.com/index.php?cPath=400_4_429_202?osCsid=f3d8qedp52u43mfqtodib2ie67
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I have used all the paints mentioned,and what I do find is a little Tamiya Flat Base works wonders,flat as a tack; I guess it is really just liquid talc...
As for Ammo Mig and AK a lot of their paints (even the non-airbrush) seem to work better through an airbrush...go figure.
And as a caveat I’m using oils a lot more these days,once you get use to them so easy to manipulate :)
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I mostly use scale 75 these days but not long ago warpaints were my paint of choice and I still use them for certain tasks and will occasionally paint entire models using them for fun.
I agree with the comments about them not being fit for the advertised purpose ie quick army painting as they are too transparent for putting down a basecoat in one layer. However, that transparency makes them some of the best paints for wet blending and glazing. No one paint range excels at all things as by their nature the acrylic medium and pigments will have qualities that favour being used in a particular way. So it really depends on your painting style which paint you prefer.
I would add they do need to be shaken a lot more than than you might think, like beyond the point they appear to be fully mixed. Adding an agitator into the bottle will help with this.
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I'm starting to use Scale75 paints and like them a lot. But I use something else for the basecoat. I use a lot of Foundry paints and like them but over time I've had two issues with them:
- the plastic containers breakdown (most of my lids now are a mix of plastic and 2 part epoxy)
- the shades in replacement batches don't match the originals
But I've gone to painting with more transparent shades and apart from a few standby triads with Foundry, I'll be using Scale75.
I also use the Blue paint set from Andrea which is awesome (their red set is good too), but I don't have good success with their other sets.
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Aphillathehun - you can get new tops for Foundry type pots here
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=108833.msg1360141#msg1360141pi
I picked up some Scale75 Scalecolour A paints from my local gaming store and they are a really matt finish - odd colour names though
https://scale75.com/en/69-scalecolor-range
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I bought a bunch of the replacement foundry/P3 caps back in 2017. Not a perfect match but they do quite nicely.
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(https://imageshack.com/a/img921/6964/ebuH3G.jpg)
I hate to sidetrack this thread... but man, that is the coolest looking skeleton I've seen!
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Derail away. It’s fabulous. Keith’s an artist. Lovely colours.
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I use a mix of Vallejo and Army Painter, and I've noticed that while both tend to separate, Army Painter separates a bit more harshly. It's never caused me a major problem, because I've long had a habit of adding glass beads as agitators to all my dropper bottles - started that practice with Vallejo years before Army Painter existed. A separated AP paint requires a bit more agitation, remembering to shake along more than one axis to stir the paint up really well. Adding glass agitators to my dropper bottles was as big an experience changer for me as learning to thin my paints or make my own wash medium.
That said, the only reds I've ever found that don't coat over black as shown in the prior picture are GW foundation reds and Vallejo's Heavy Red Game Color. The red/orange/yellow side of the spectrum has always had issues covering black, in my experience. I often apply a layer of Vallejo Heavy Warm Grey for the reds/oranges/yellows or a layer of Vallejo Heavy Cold Grey for the thinner blues/purples/greens.
The shiny effect you sometimes get with poorly mixed paints doesn't bother me too much as long as the coverage is there, as I use a matte sealer.
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I'm not sure if this You Tube tutorial has been referenced but I thought it was worth adding a link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWzLRD1Cetc
Tony
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I've made a little video showing how I mix my paint. I go from clear medium to usable paint in less than two minutes.
https://youtu.be/9BKeSl_Wv8Y