Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Darksider on February 13, 2019, 01:24:27 PM
-
I posted a similar thread about half a year ago, where I searched for a coop miniature rpg dungeoncrawler hybrid.
So I am looking for something like this:
- character advancement (should be at least lvl 5 or something similar)
- different classes (more than the standard 4 fighter, priest, mage, thief)
- the game should controll the monster AI not a player or gm
- easy action system (something like you have two actions per turn with which you can do this and that)
- a lot of different monsters
- a dungeon which you can explore or which is layed out where the monsters are placed from the beginning
So most of you would probably recommend decent or the d&d adventure systems. I have both games and I like them a lot, but I feel that they always miss something.
D&D boardgame has a cool action system, but I hate all the cards and that you have a limited number of monsters. Also the monsters always act first and you can't prevent them from doing that most of the time. Also the pregenerated heroes take a lot away from making your own char and that you can only get to lvl 2 sucks.
Decent on the other hand as a good campaign system imo and I like the character advancement, but you can only play it together with the app or the addon campaigns. You also can't make your own character.
The game I want probably doesn' exist in this form, so I am working on making my own ::)
I tinkered a bit around with frostgrave etc, but it's hard to make classes there (as you can see in the frostgrave thread) and it isn't exactly that what I wanted (but it's really close).
Someone suggested D&D 0e for miniature play. As the rules aren't dense but have enough depth for character advancement and a really big bestiary (something that is very important for me).
I thougth that it is maybe possible to combine the three games I like (d&d boardgame, frostgrave, sword and wizardry) and make a hybrid. Using the character creation, gear and lvl advancment from D&D 0e (or in my case from sword and wizardry light, continual light, white box), take the action system from d&d boardgame + maybe the surge mechanic and take the monster AI from frostgrave.
This is what I imagine how the game should probably work when it's finished.
You lay out a dungeon (2d, 3d doesn't matter), check what each room will contain (monster, trap, treasure), place the heroes on a starttile and the monster in their chambers. Then there's a herophase in which the heroes can make their actions and then their's a monster phase in which the monster wander around or attack the heroes.
It's less exploration and more hack'n'slash with lvl up in the end, if your hero survives.
Does anyone have some good suggestions or ideas? Maybe a game that someone made by himself?
-
I see that Dungeon Scum is supposed to be very like what you're asking for.
I haven't played it, but I do really enjoy the other Nordic Weasel games that I have.
The campaign systems in the games I have are amazing, so I don't see why these would be different.
https://www.wargamevault.com/product/192168/Dungeon-Scum
-
Thank you for the tip. I looked a few times at the game, but in the preview I couldn't really figure out how it will play.
Maybe there are some vids on youtube or a battlereport somewhere on the internet at all XD
-
THW Dungeon Crawl might do the trick. Can be played solo and coop.
http://twohourwargames.com/2hoducr.html
-
Have you seen Mice and Mystics? It's a dungeon crawl with some story telling elements. It doesn't have the character creation aspect but the mechanics are neat and has an AI to the monsters. You could probably create some tables (wandering monster tables dare I say) to adapt it and bolt on your own character creation. It is also a fun game in its own right with a few expansions if you like it.
-
I believe I suggested it back in your original thread, but Myth ticks all of your boxes.
It's a cooperative dungeon crawler game, with at least 10 different types of adventurer, all of which can advance throughout a campaign. The 'Dark Side' is controlled by the game system, with different enemies having different reactions to the threats players pose.
The turns are actually different from other systems; each action taken by the player (controlled by a character specific card deck, which will also grow as the character advances) generates a certain amount of threat; the more daring or dangerous an action, the more threat it generates, and once the threat tracker is full, the dark side activates. So players can do pretty much anything up to the point where the tracker ends the players turn.
There is no fixed turn sequence either; players can play their character's cards in any sequence and as many as they like, intermixed with those of other players. So players can also help each other, as there are quite a few support cards as well. It's a system that really requires a lot of cooperation.
The dungeon (or forest, dockside, city, desert or whatever) is laid out piece by piece. There are no corridors as such, but only adjoining rooms/areas. At least; when you stick with the supplied scenarios. But there are so many (and there is a literal ton of expansions and extra missions), that you will not run out for a very long time to come. And when you do, there is obviously the option of creating your own dungeons, with custom missions, and there is a whole plethora of opponent races to choose from. Off the top of my head, at least a dozen, all with basic troops, leaders, captains and big monsters.
The only downside is the fact that Megacon Games, who created the game, have sold out to a larger company, while they were still in the process (and struggling mightily!) of fulfilling the second Kickstarter of the game (and as you might guess; I'm still waiting for a sizeable chunk of my rather large pledge :/ )
The game should eventually become available in retail again. It's been many moons since the last KS update, and I'm not holding my breath, but copies should be available on Ebay and elsewhere.
Regardless of the issues with the KS, it is a very good and fun game. And like I said; it fully ticks all of your boxes...
-
Did you look at Rangers of Shadow Deep? It's basically co-op Frostgrave with less magic and more general specialties for the heroes. Probably still not quite as RPG like as you'd want, but it might be close enough.
-
Frostgrave will be coming out with a supplement for solo/co-op play and random dungeon generation, but it’s still wizard centric.
-
I'd probably go for an adaption of D&D 5E, with the AI controlled by cards or a chart. After all, most monsters would just move towards the nearest target or stay back and shoot :)
-
Warhammer Quest (the old one) was pretty much perfect game play wise. I severely disliked the hodge-podge dungeon floor designs and the completely un-themed encounter table, but as far as game-play was concerned, I found it the perfect balance between simplicity and fun to play.
I guess they kind of made up for the themed encounter problem with the additional supplements, but even then they were... off...
But yeah, if I were to create and release a dungeon crawler, it would be relatively simple, but the dungeon floor designs would be very generic, and the encounters would be themed.
In fact, there isn't much stopping me from adapting it, since I have a large collection of 3D dungeon corridors ready already. Maybe I should go for it.
-
Have you looked at Dungeon Saga from Mantic? I have it from the KS, but haven’t played it much so don’t know if it ticks all your boxes - but it was certainly intended to.
-
Thank you all for the answers =).
Did you look at Rangers of Shadow Deep? It's basically co-op Frostgrave with less magic and more general specialties for the heroes. Probably still not quite as RPG like as you'd want, but it might be close enough.
Yep, I have the game at home ;). I like it, but you can only create your own ranger nothing else and the bestiary is limited, something I really dislike. (I love to play against all sorts of monsters)
Frostgrave will be coming out with a supplement for solo/co-op play and random dungeon generation, but it’s still wizard centric.
I read this on joe's blog a while ago and I am really looking forward to it's release.
I'd probably go for an adaption of D&D 5E, with the AI controlled by cards or a chart. After all, most monsters would just move towards the nearest target or stay back and shoot :)
That's something I could try. How would you make the cards or the chart? Or would it be possible to use the frostgrave AI for such a game??
Warhammer Quest (the old one) was pretty much perfect game play wise. I severely disliked the hodge-podge dungeon floor designs and the completely un-themed encounter table, but as far as game-play was concerned, I found it the perfect balance between simplicity and fun to play.
I guess they kind of made up for the themed encounter problem with the additional supplements, but even then they were... off...
But yeah, if I were to create and release a dungeon crawler, it would be relatively simple, but the dungeon floor designs would be very generic, and the encounters would be themed.
In fact, there isn't much stopping me from adapting it, since I have a large collection of 3D dungeon corridors ready already. Maybe I should go for it.
Yeah warhammer quest looks cool, but to get it at all or for a decent price is really hard. I don't even know where to get the rules ???
Have you looked at Dungeon Saga from Mantic? I have it from the KS, but haven’t played it much so don’t know if it ticks all your boxes - but it was certainly intended to.
Sure =). But there are some things I don't like. First pregenerated characters and I think you can't make your own heroes and a limited bestiary. The rest of the game seems good, but I don't know if I really like it that much to buy it. I have a ton of different games at home and I have to really think twice or thrice about how much I like a game, cause my space at home slowly starts to vanish under all these games XD.
I believe I suggested it back in your original thread, but Myth ticks all of your boxes.
It's a cooperative dungeon crawler game, with at least 10 different types of adventurer, all of which can advance throughout a campaign. The 'Dark Side' is controlled by the game system, with different enemies having different reactions to the threats players pose.
The turns are actually different from other systems; each action taken by the player (controlled by a character specific card deck, which will also grow as the character advances) generates a certain amount of threat; the more daring or dangerous an action, the more threat it generates, and once the threat tracker is full, the dark side activates. So players can do pretty much anything up to the point where the tracker ends the players turn.
There is no fixed turn sequence either; players can play their character's cards in any sequence and as many as they like, intermixed with those of other players. So players can also help each other, as there are quite a few support cards as well. It's a system that really requires a lot of cooperation.
The dungeon (or forest, dockside, city, desert or whatever) is laid out piece by piece. There are no corridors as such, but only adjoining rooms/areas. At least; when you stick with the supplied scenarios. But there are so many (and there is a literal ton of expansions and extra missions), that you will not run out for a very long time to come. And when you do, there is obviously the option of creating your own dungeons, with custom missions, and there is a whole plethora of opponent races to choose from. Off the top of my head, at least a dozen, all with basic troops, leaders, captains and big monsters.
The only downside is the fact that Megacon Games, who created the game, have sold out to a larger company, while they were still in the process (and struggling mightily!) of fulfilling the second Kickstarter of the game (and as you might guess; I'm still waiting for a sizeable chunk of my rather large pledge :/ )
The game should eventually become available in retail again. It's been many moons since the last KS update, and I'm not holding my breath, but copies should be available on Ebay and elsewhere.
Regardless of the issues with the KS, it is a very good and fun game. And like I said; it fully ticks all of your boxes...
Yeah you did I think ;). Looked for the game, but as you said it's hard to get. Ebay only has a few expansion copies and the seller won't deliver them to europe.
Maybe I sould really try to convert d&d or a game like d&d to a boargame style game?. I tried my sword and wizardry frostgrave d&d adventure system mix yesterday. The gameplay feels a bit akward. The heroes really die fast, the monsters are hard to kill and when the monster can't see the heroes they run all to the target point (in my game the exit from where the heroes should escape). So after a few rounds a lot of monsters blocked the exit and the heroes all died lol.
-
That's something I could try. How would you make the cards or the chart? Or would it be possible to use the frostgrave AI for such a game??
I like the AI cards from the Gears of War boardgame. Basically, each shows two conditions. A normal enemy with a gun would always move towards the nearest target and then attack if possible. Simple as that. A healer would move towards the nearest wounded friend and heal, a spellslinger would move away if in melee range and then use an AoE-spell on the nearest cluster of enemies. This can be done as simple or complex as possible, but always with the "if x, then y, otherwise z" framework. A cowardly goblin might try to flee if he is at less than 50% health, for example.
HP values for monsters might have to be lowered depending on the number of player characters to get a "Hero Quest" feeling where each quest sees combat against dozens of enemies. The vanilla D&D system generally assumes that one quest has only a handful of encounters with a few enemies, and the players have time to rest in between, so the individual enemies tend to be stronger.
-
A few years ago, I used Pathfinder (OGL) and put a 3D dungeon on the table. Used it like an augmented tabletop game with the advantage of taking any action (try to put a piece of cloth on a guard's head, throw a pebble to lure another guard, put poison in a drink....), the monsters were human only - humans are a kind of monsters :(
I predefined place to loot, guard patrols pathways, lightings (possibility to put off the torches) and made a few behavior tables. State: NPC Sleep, Is Aware, Talk with another guard if they meet, Walk along the patrol path. Behavior in case of noise or suspect thing, modified by the State: Do nothing, go to noise, pivot of 90 or 180, shout to alert.....
Used other RPG system on solo play since. Always with this kind of behavior table. Always with stealth/sneaking in mind.
Best regards
-
Two Hour Wargames has two great systems for co-op (and solo) dungeon crawls and adventures.
1. Two Hour Dungeon Crawl: http://www.twohourwargames.com/2hoducr.html
Delivers a co-op or solo party dungeon crawl with character advancement, and the system generates the dungeon, the dungeon boss and the encounters.
2. Talomir Tales is a broader adventuring system that also includes dungeoncrawls, but lots of other adventure options a well: http://www.twohourwargames.com/fullbooks.html
-
Four Against Darkness?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/180588/Four-Against-Darkness
More of a dungeon creation aid than an actual RPG.
-
Yeah warhammer quest looks cool, but to get it at all or for a decent price is really hard. I don't even know where to get the rules ???
Well, you said you wanted to make your own, so you don't need to buy the original game copies. They go for a ton of money on eBay and are not worth that much, but as far as inspiration for your own game system goes, I would definitely look at the rules for this game, which can be found for much cheaper, and build your own game from those rules.
Since I have two sons who are getting to an age where they can enjoy miniature wargaming, I might just do what I always wanted to do, and adapt Warhammer Quest to suit my needs.
Oh and I just remembered another dungeon crawler that is actually quite fun. It's a D&D one from 2003.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6366/dungeons-dragons-fantasy-adventure-board-game
They go for crazy cheap and the miniatures aren't even that bad and paint up quite well too! I painted an entire set for a friend a couple years ago and I secretly had quite a lot of fun painting them up.
-
Well, you said you wanted to make your own, so you don't need to buy the original game copies. They go for a ton of money on eBay and are not worth that much, but as far as inspiration for your own game system goes, I would definitely look at the rules for this game, which can be found for much cheaper, and build your own game from those rules.
Since I have two sons who are getting to an age where they can enjoy miniature wargaming, I might just do what I always wanted to do, and adapt Warhammer Quest to suit my needs.
Oh and I just remembered another dungeon crawler that is actually quite fun. It's a D&D one from 2003.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6366/dungeons-dragons-fantasy-adventure-board-game
They go for crazy cheap and the miniatures aren't even that bad and paint up quite well too! I painted an entire set for a friend a couple years ago and I secretly had quite a lot of fun painting them up.
If I can get the rules, I will have a look at them ;).
Thanks for the tipp. I also have this version at home =).
Four Against Darkness?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/180588/Four-Against-Darkness
More of a dungeon creation aid than an actual RPG.
Have the books and some addons at home. Nice little game, but not exactly what I am looking for.
Two Hour Wargames has two great systems for co-op (and solo) dungeon crawls and adventures.
1. Two Hour Dungeon Crawl: http://www.twohourwargames.com/2hoducr.html
Delivers a co-op or solo party dungeon crawl with character advancement, and the system generates the dungeon, the dungeon boss and the encounters.
2. Talomir Tales is a broader adventuring system that also includes dungeoncrawls, but lots of other adventure options a well: http://www.twohourwargames.com/fullbooks.html
I don't know what I should think about 2hour dungeon crawl. I heard that a lot of players find it fiddly and that there is no real bestiary or only a minor one.
Do you have it at home?
A few years ago, I used Pathfinder (OGL) and put a 3D dungeon on the table. Used it like an augmented tabletop game with the advantage of taking any action (try to put a piece of cloth on a guard's head, throw a pebble to lure another guard, put poison in a drink....), the monsters were human only - humans are a kind of monsters :(
I predefined place to loot, guard patrols pathways, lightings (possibility to put off the torches) and made a few behavior tables. State: NPC Sleep, Is Aware, Talk with another guard if they meet, Walk along the patrol path. Behavior in case of noise or suspect thing, modified by the State: Do nothing, go to noise, pivot of 90 or 180, shout to alert.....
Used other RPG system on solo play since. Always with this kind of behavior table. Always with stealth/sneaking in mind.
Best regards
Thanks for the info. Maybe I should try it this way. My actual approach isn't far away from your version at the moment.
-
I've actually been spurred by this thread and a WHQ revival project also here on Lead to actually get something done with a simply dungeon crawler system.
So I actually started working on it.
The only problem will be getting cards. Simple, written cards won't be much fun, I'd rather have some real cards with stats on them, but alas... THat might still be a bit off. Unless someone volunteers some time and wants to create the cards for me.
But as always I am getting ahead of myself.
But yeah, I am probably going to make my own dungeon crawl ruleset. I think I already decided on one majoy difference. I am thinking about using Fate dice instead of regular ones. That's basically just the HeroQuest dice, if you think about it...
And luck would have it, I just found out Hasbro has the rules for HeroQuest up online for free! How nice of them!
https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/HeroQuest.PDF
https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/Hero_Quest_Quest_Book.PDF
-
I've actually been spurred by this thread and a WHQ revival project also here on Lead to actually get something done with a simply dungeon crawler system.
So I actually started working on it.
The only problem will be getting cards. Simple, written cards won't be much fun, I'd rather have some real cards with stats on them, but alas... THat might still be a bit off. Unless someone volunteers some time and wants to create the cards for me.
But as always I am getting ahead of myself.
But yeah, I am probably going to make my own dungeon crawl ruleset. I think I already decided on one majoy difference. I am thinking about using Fate dice instead of regular ones. That's basically just the HeroQuest dice, if you think about it...
And luck would have it, I just found out Hasbro has the rules for HeroQuest up online for free! How nice of them!
https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/HeroQuest.PDF
https://www.hasbro.com/common/instruct/Hero_Quest_Quest_Book.PDF
Good idea =). Hope you will show them here, if you have finished them.
Also thanks for the link ;)
-
I will. The rules, if I will finish them, will just be posted online for free.
I am hoping someone will step up and create cards for it, for which that person can then take any profits from selling them, once the rules are out, and I guess the tiles will be something you have to make yourself, plus miniatures will be of the generic fantasy kind so most folks will have those already as well.
So it won't be like a boxed set or anything. Those are way too expensive to make. At most the cards will be of professional quality.
-
If you're interested in the process, basically what I am doing is taking the relatively simple approach to combat of HeroQuest, taking inspiration for the exploration from Warhammer Quest, and add some exception based rulings from Magic the Gathering, and add all those to create a very straightforward but hopefully still interesting tactical game. The "Base" rules will be for dungeon crawling and some cavern crawling too, and then maybe I can always add some stuff for combat outside of those environs.
But it's all going to be very entry level. I want my kids to understand the game. For anyone who wants a loooot of meat, you can go for D&D, PF, LL or whatever.
-
If you're interested in the process, basically what I am doing is taking the relatively simple approach to combat of HeroQuest, taking inspiration for the exploration from Warhammer Quest, and add some exception based rulings from Magic the Gathering, and add all those to create a very straightforward but hopefully still interesting tactical game. The "Base" rules will be for dungeon crawling and some cavern crawling too, and then maybe I can always add some stuff for combat outside of those environs.
But it's all going to be very entry level. I want my kids to understand the game. For anyone who wants a loooot of meat, you can go for D&D, PF, LL or whatever.
Thanks for sharing the info.
Nothing wrong with keeping a game simple. I think nowadays it's better to create a game that's simple and can be enhanced with more optional rules.
-
My thoughts too.
So far I have managed to keep the base rules contained in 1 page. As it stands, they do assume players are familiar with the basics of tabletop wargaming and/or role playing games, but that's the target demographic I am going for anyways.
Now I only need a name for this little crawl or mine.
-
I’ve been working on my own dungeon crawl ruleset for a while now, and have playtested it a number of times. You might find some inspiration in my approach...
https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2018/01/dungeon-delve-crypt-of-mighty-lord-thule.html (https://miniaturescrum.blogspot.com/2018/01/dungeon-delve-crypt-of-mighty-lord-thule.html)