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Miniatures Adventure => Interwar => Topic started by: Rich H on February 19, 2019, 08:12:47 AM
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I should have been finishing the E-50/E-75 but decided to have a quick look at the A1E1 Vickers Independent... and accidents happen...
I had a search and didn't come up with any... Of course now I know the Copplestone make one! Never mind. Mine will have better tracks (My pet peeve on minis) and match the Bovinton one (differnet to the drawings and the Copplestone one around the drive sprocket)
Hull structure is drawn, turrets next.
No pics yet but I'll get some tonight.
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At the school where I work they would call you, 'An Independent learner'.
I wish you well & look forward to the pictures.
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The project magpie is a flightly thing... ooh shiney! lol
Oh and Empress make one too, the old HLBS Co one. (Still rubbish tracks though....)
Both the copplestone and Empress versions haev the wrong back end too... not that anyone else would notice but I've been counting rivets (Literally) and this one has loads...
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FWIW the Independent had it's back-end redesigned after trials.
Track length was too long for width and early on they found the rear-end literally pulling itself apart. I think that probably explains variations at the back.
Looking forward to seeing this (Keith from Empress and fan of all things rivety ;-) )
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Interesting info - thanks!
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For personal use, or would you be sending it off to be cast by someone? Ah, perhaps for a Very British Civil War style setting. :)
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Keith and Rich your both right to a point the 1926 prototype had a different assembly which was short lived.The whole thing was tweaked and buggered around with until the mid thirties(pretty much finished with by 33 )
The Empress one has a stylized(not an accurate) version of this assembly. Personally I'm quite happy to have artistic license in vehicles( use it myself) If I were making one I'd go for the spoked wheel as it just seems more in keeping with the almost Heath Robinson feel of interwar design's.
I have to admit I'm not a big fan of models of prototype vehicles especially when the vehicles they influenced are in production in the same period. But the International is the exception as its back story has such potential for gaming . Espionage and traitors what more do you need for VBCW.
So looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Mark.
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I have no solid plans for it, it's more a bit of fun. Toying with VBCW stuff potentially.
If it works out OK then I could maybe be persuaded to print off a spare ;)
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Basic structure and undercarriage
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It'd be rude NOT to do some VBCW as you also have some nice British/London streets done... lol
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Rich,
Just an observation. The side hatch is recessed not proud.Now I don't know if it wasn't at some point during its life. But both the image's on the factory floor,the 1926 trials,and the current museum colour pictures. All show the hatch in this configuration. As it's an odd Idea for having passing an issue stretcher with a casualty on easily pass through it.
It's an oversight on the Empress version too. If you've worked off the line drawings it can look like a flat hull plate.
Thats the joy of the internet I've made a few vehicles from line drawings only to find years later that dozens of obscure photos have turned up on the web which contradict what you thought you knew and made.
I don't suppose it's a big issue or even one at all ( As I've already mentioned All for artistic license.) But I suspect you'd bugged like mad if didn't notice it and make an informed styling choice.
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I had a search and didn't come up with any... Of course now I know the Copplestone make one!
Funny you should write this. Only a day before you posted this I was actually contacting Copplestone about getting their tanks and was told that they were removed from production never to see the light of day again. Kinda pissed, but they can do whatever they want with their molds:-( Just a FYI.
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Just to tempt you Rich.
If you make the tankettes in the second picture .I'll make you the crew figures. ;)
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@Tin Shed Gamer: Awesome - very tempting.
Yes I had spotted that hatch thanks, but not done anything about it yet! I thought it was an oddity. All detailed info is a bonus! I'm quite surprised at the apparent dearth of pics of it at Bov TBH, I've found more/better pics of the Object 279!
@Ironhead - I guess the moulds are knackered and there isn't enough interest to remake them or the master is lost/damaged?
I think I'm going to publish the STL (if/when it's done!) on wargaming3d for a nominal fee. I doubt there is enough interest to warrant productionising it and then people can buy/print/get printed as they want then. Only limitation will be non-commercial so you can't print/sell them (Not that a license aways stops people...)
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I thought Copplestone sold off their tank lines to someone else and that all or most of them are still available elsewhere?
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Some progress
The transmission cover alone took most of last night...
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Needs more detail on the tracks :D
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I thought Copplestone sold off their tank lines to someone else and that all or most of them are still available elsewhere?
Who, what, when, where? Maybe somebody will chime in?
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Who, what, when, where? Maybe somebody will chime in?
Empress Miniatures ;-)
Rich, that's looking really nice.
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Copplestone were the HLBS vehicles.Which Empress are carrying a fair few if not all . As HBLS has dropped the whole range. Keith just types faster than me.( always the bridesmaid ! lol no ones mentioned my stuff. Admittedly its mainly armoured cars and a couple of tractors but its nice to be remembered occasionally ;D )
Rich .
Looking good I might just have to nag you for a copy once you've finished.
Mark.
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Keith & Mark...thank you very much!
As an aside, I am VERY much looking forward to seeing the A1E1, hence why I checked this thread. Sorry if anybody thought I derailed the thread with my other inquiry.
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Empress Miniatures ;-)
Rich, that's looking really nice.
Ah yes! They do still have the Vickers Independent (and the Beast!):
(http://www.46680.mrsite.com/USERIMAGES/VICKERSINDEPENDENT.JPG)
Looks like all or most of the armoured vehicles are currently part of their "Jazz-Age Imperialism" line.
The Empress version isn't bad by any means, but it seems rich's version will be going for a rather higher level of polish.
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Yes, not to detract from Rich H's work, but Empress have said that they'll be updating their website in future, and with that also their HLBS WWI and interwar range (which Empress now produce entirely, rather than HLBS).
At least from my modern projects I've found that HLBS hasn't always been the greatest with accuracy, though they're often the only company who have produced vehicles like this, so we can't really complain. Rich H's products certainly reflect the state of the market nowadays though.
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Just don't take mine to Bovington to check...
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Shouldn’t it be ‘THE A1E1 Independent’ ? lol
It’s a fascinating looking creation, and one cannot for one minute blame interwar and pulp wargamers for lusting after one or two for their collections. But apparently there was only one ever built - the very same prototype that’s at Bovington :)
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Just don't take mine to Bovington to check...
Time to start speaking to Bovington's gift shop about stock. I believe they carry Warlord's up-scaled Italeri plastic kits. Better than the Scottish Royal Armoury. Our one has cheap toy Panzer IVs and Tigers. :P
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Shouldn’t it be ‘THE A1E1 Independent’ ? lol
It’s a fascinating looking creation, and one cannot for one minute blame interwar and pulp wargamers for lusting after one or two for their collections. But apparently there was only one ever built - the very same prototype that’s at Bovington :)
lol I'll give you that... but look at the number of Pumas and Char2s sold by Warlord!
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Bit more work
Panel lines and rivets started.
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It's an awkward beast form some angles
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Time to start speaking to Bovington's gift shop about stock. I believe they carry Warlord's up-scaled Italeri plastic kits. Better than the Scottish Royal Armoury. Our one has cheap toy Panzer IVs and Tigers. :P
.... but the cafe sells deep fried Mars Bars and Irn Bru as a consolation? :D
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I risk sounding like a rivet counter .Rather than being genuinely interested in your design process( Which you know me well enough to that I am genuinely interested)
In the broad sense its technically all the Independent. But I was just wondering if your intending on having the rear machine gun turrets as on the '26 or the versions on the'33 which were intended for an AA role. As you've used the '33 drive assembly so I was wondering if you were opting for a more of a hybrid nod at its continual evolution?(It had occurred to me it might just be in place for the 'photo' but asking seemed appropriate)
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I count rivets... its ok we are all friends here ;D
From what I've seen the rear left turret was the AA turret so yes I'll be doing that.
Where are you getting the history of it from? I've not seen that much detail.
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lol I'll give you that... but look at the number of Pumas and Char2s sold by Warlord!
lol lol
True!
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lol all over the place.
It's worth taking a sidestep and looking at Norman Bailey-Scott. Links the Independent to Russia and Lord Haw haw.
You've managed to hit on one of the most useful plot point/scenario building vehicles of the interwar period/vbcw.
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Confused me there... you mean Norman Baillie-Stewart ;)
I'll check it out.
Intruige and spying, perfect background :D
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Feels a bit like the A-Team.
If you can't find it, but it looks really cool,
If was barely used but hopefully fired in anger,
And if you can find him,
Maybe you can hire.. Rich H!
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You see what happens when your supposed to be listening in a meeting. lol lol lol
Definitely a brain in neutral day . (Scott's the intern at the museum . So so sick of hearing 'Yes Scott.' He's like a Yorkie on speed.With the commonsense of a rock.)
I think I'm not look to smart this side of the screen either.
Everybody's sat at lunch being all intellectual its been a bit quite since I was asked what I was reading and working on at the moment.
Apparently 'I'm re reading Captain Starlight an the Eather Flyer .Because I quite fancy building a spaceship crewed by boy scouts .' Isn't what they're expecting to hear. ::)
Appart from my howler of mashing up of names. Its quite fascinating . People says its a vehicle thats important because of its influence on desgin of tanks of the period especially the Germans and the Russians.
What they neglect to mention is he sold the plans and tech reports to Both RussIa and Germany. So 90% of the issues and dead ends were bashed out before they started on their own versions .(its a lot easier when somes already a list of do's and don'ts.)
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He sold the plans for about £40... quite a bit of cash back then but not exactly worth years in prison!
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.... but the cafe sells deep fried Mars Bars and Irn Bru as a consolation? :D
"We will deep fry your model tank"
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Tracks and turret
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OK it’s only a render I know but that is looking very good indeed. Hopefully you can be persuaded to do some more interwar beasties, preferably some little ones.
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We'll see :)
Which in particular?
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Some of the earlier Vickers Light tanks. MkII India Pattern would be a nice start. They actually saw service and a few people on here at least collect interwar armies for the NWF.
A Czech vz.33 would be my next nearest desire. I have an interwar Czech army and IIRC a few soldiered on with the Germans post 1939.
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found a drawing of the VZ 33...
Any way more rivets.
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Oh and an AA turret
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Well that turned out rather nicely.
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Going to the printer this morning. I've lopped the tracks off the sides
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That is rather good - looking forward to seeing the printed model 8) 8) 8)
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I hope your printing a second copy ;)
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5.5 hours just for the tracks... hull should be less
lets see how it comes out first!
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Its was only jest.
Although I wasn't joking about want a copy . I understand the time frame for bespoke prints ( a good chunk of my time is spent manually reworking prints be it for museum or commercial pieces)
As its probably the nicest Cad work you've done(so far) that fact you start sculpting vehicles before you went fully to cad. Is paying dividends.
Mark.
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Well it's not going well... one of the tracks has partially failed - the scaffolding has failed leaving the drive sprocket half printed (Unrecoverable), but I can either stop it and waste the resin used for 3 hours printing.... or leave it and reprint the failed one... wasting the resin of the failed one...
Think I'll leave it. Next print I can fit the hull and the failed track together. Another 5 hours then the turrets...
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Ok i assumed i had to cut it up to fit... apparently I was wrong! Hull and tacks now printing as one piece...
Photo of the track that worked.
Remember the lines are 0.05mm so nowhere near as obvious as the photo shows! Plus the new print the lines will be closer to horizontal so even less obvious hopefully
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What it's supposed to look like:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Bovington_022_Independent_1.jpg/800px-Bovington_022_Independent_1.jpg)
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What it's supposed to look like:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Bovington_022_Independent_1.jpg/800px-Bovington_022_Independent_1.jpg)
And it certainly does!
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The print has worked mostly.
It's serviceable but not quite as pretty as I'd like, as it was printed with the tracks vertical there isn't enough support in places so the return rollers aren't quite round and the rail on the the front is slightly twisted.. I also forgot drain holes so it's now weeping resin... hopefully it'll stop...
I'll probably have another go but print it in bits like plan A. That way the whole affair is better supported.
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Quick undercoat. Seen a few support nibs that need fixing now... the slightly melty look arpund the front idler was the leaking resin.
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Very impressive Rich, well done.
Best regards,
Helen
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Thanks!
New plan. Print the whole thing in one go but align it vertically. It'll take longer but will need less support and 'should' give better results...
I'll tweak the model a bit to ensure the unsupported bits are supported in hidden ways (Like extended the return rollers to meet the hull)
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Magnets.
Use Magnets.
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May I present the Vickers A1E1 Independent
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That’s lovely. I think I need one of these!
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Thanks
Its got a couple of minor issues but nothing significant
Next question is colour.
I'm tempted to paint it gloss bronze green like bovington.
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Totally agree (although I’d probably go for a satin finish for scale)
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Thats looking propper.
On the subject of colour I'd go with a lighter shade of green more in the darker Olive drab I use one of the GW colours(with my recent track record with name's I'll modify my answer with its name, once I've gone to my workshop tomorrow ;)) it gives a similar luster to the original. But is several shades lighter than the Bronze green of the original. But the lighter tone will show off your detailing to a greater extent.Whilst looking very similar to the original colours at scale.
The most valuable piece of artistic advice I've ever been given for display work (and it really does work) in life things appear darker the further away they are . If you reverse the principle and apply to scale .Then you'll achive a greater level of realism.
(Same colour on both vehicles only difference being natural light on the command and energy efficient warm glow on the other.)
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thanks! Ive undercoated it and I'll get more pics.
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Undercoated
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Wow! :-* Most impressive Rich! Fair to say that looks like an improvement on the HLBSC/ Copplestone/ Empress version in terms of detail. This computery-magicky thing seems to be work well with you.
Glad you showed the undercoated version. I was going to ask if the original print was in need of a good dandruff control shampoo.
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Thanks! It's the resin dust - it stick to everything...
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That IS nice 8) 8) 8)
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Plan is to make the STL file avaialble via wargaming3d.com for a small fee (to keep me in resin and teabags.) so you can all print your own fleet of them.
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Shame you drink a lot of tea...
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Plan is to make the STL file avaialble via wargaming3d.com for a small fee (to keep me in resin and teabags.) so you can all print your own fleet of them.
Then I guess I won't own this or the Grosstraktor since I don't have a printer:-(
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I will print them if you ask nice ;)
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He will you know , I asked nicely( ish) :D
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The tank is brilliant Rich!
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Thanks
3x hulls printing overnight... touch wood they were looking OK when I left for work this morning... about 90% finished. Apparenty waiting for 3d printing to finish is not an acceptable reason for being late for work.
I think a Medium Mark III will follow in time, it has the same 'feel' about it.
Then possibly a Medium Mark II to round out the set of small, medium and large British inter war rubbish tanks.
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3 hulls in one print!
Turrets next.
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I will print them if you ask nice ;)
What if I ask very, very nicely? :D
The Mark III definitely fits in the same goofball vein. A medium Mark II would be great for late BoB or colonial Northwest Frontier games. I guess you could say those choices are... on the mark. :D
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Amazing attention to detail! :o
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.... but the cafe sells deep fried Mars Bars and Irn Bru as a consolation? :D
Well at least it's not like every English institution selling jellied eels, whelks, kendal cake, and pearly queen spit.
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Not up here in the North West, it's all fish and chips, pies and Blackpool rock.
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File available here:
https://www.wargaming3d.com/product/vickers-a1e1-independent-tank-1-56/
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That tank is a thing of rare beauty..
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Well at least it's not like every English institution selling jellied eels, whelks, kendal cake, and pearly queen spit.
No lamprey pie? lol
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Big thanks to Rich.
As mine arrived to day.Already undercoated( I'll probably pull a Dags' and paint it tonight).
Mark.
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Hope it meets your expectations! :D
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In all honesty Rich it's a little smaller than I expected.(Not because of your sculpting as its cracking) I think its because I've nothing for a basis of comparison.Then it is a one off prototype tank.Plus I'm use to the scale tweaking and minimum thickness required for reliable resin casts.
It's an absolutely lovely and intelligent sculpt.
The more I think about it I've an in grained senses of tanks . partly being from an infantry background, and partly from being a ten year old paper boy on bike , at Catterick garrison. Desperately trying not to be grunt ground by Chieftains.
( it really clears both the mind and the bowels when you physically feel track links pass your ears. Every morning through an October.)
In short BIG and very loud. lol
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Glad you like it! :D
:o Going to make you clench that... I used to work near Whittington Barracks and we used to get the columns of warriors on the A38 nose to tail flat out in the outside lane.... you just got out he way!
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Not sure why you were cycling down the A38 in the outside lane when you were younger Rich.. Does explain a lot though..
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Big thanks to Rich.
As mine arrived to day.Already undercoated( I'll probably pull a Dags' and paint it tonight).
Mark.
Can't wait for mine!
-Kevin
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Undercoating is part of the service, lol.
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I undercoated it lol
Here's a quick pick of my progress(I'll add my own thread as this is just for continuity ;))
Mark.
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Awesome! :D