Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Silent Invader on March 02, 2019, 05:39:53 PM
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Given that there are a now couple of threads on soon to come ranges for the fighting in Hue in 1968, I thought I’d start on some terrain in anticipation of releases.
I’m going for a ‘take the block’ and/or ‘rescue’ game, probably with the VC etc as a non player force. The buildings are on A4 (or 2 of A5) sections of 4mm MDF. As well as the block, I’ll likely have lines of building facades to two sides, from which the USMC etc can launch their assault. Trees and other decor items will be individually based.
Edit: I’m setting my game in The Triangle, which was the newer part of Hue City.
Here’s the first constructs:
A walled garden with a Buddha statue, using the excellent walls from OSHIRO Model Terrain:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319181458-37884110.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319181458-378831681.jpeg)
A very-WIP large house:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319181423-378821121.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319181423-378811085.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319181423-37878409.jpeg)
A medium sized house with garden with mesh fencing to rear (on 2 xA5):
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319181423-378801135.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319181423-37879661.jpeg)
I probably won’t paint or flock until I have completed all of the assemblies. Next up will be either a chapel or a pair of small houses.
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Looking good 8)
The big house looks impressive and I like the idea of the smaller 'tiles'.
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Ta. :)
I’ve still got to add a lot of detail to the big house (obvs). The smaller tiles add a bit more flexibility to the layout and also reduce the likelihood of warping on properties with long gardens.
Btw, having seen how well Dr De’ath’s catacombs came out, I might well use some sort of pimped-up vinyl tile for the road surfaces.
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It's all coming together, going to be an interesting board to play on
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Looking good! I need also to start building to accomodate the Vietnam hordes that being thrown at us by Crucible Crush, Gringo and Empress...
What are the really the specific characteristics of Vietnam city architecture?
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Looking good! :o
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Thanks all :)
What are the really the specific characteristics of Vietnam city architecture?
I should have pointed out in my first post (now edited) that my board will be set in The Triangle, which was then the newer part of Hue, south of the Citadel and separated from it by a broad river. I’ve looked at a ton of images both on-line and in books, focussing on a mix of different property types that were present, which in The Triangle were often either modern or earlier 20thc French colonial style, concrete rendered usually with shutters, often with high walled gardens to the rear. I’ll mostly be making residential buildings, with a mix of larger and smaller. Two points of note, my church will be based on one from outside of Hue (the ones present were so big they’d dominate my board) while my walled garden with moon gate is actually influenced by the Hue section of Full Metal Jacket.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-020319211131.jpeg)
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What does he call his gun?
It has been a while since I saw that, I had forgotten who was in it.
With all this Vietnam stuff about, I am going to have to dig out my Campaign 4 book.
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Vera!
lol
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Vera!
lol
Seriously.... he called it Vera?!
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That's an excellent start Steve, I'm really impressed. I look forward to playing on it! :D
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Seriously.... he called it Vera?!
Not in FMJ, no ;)
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The video game Rising Storm 2: Vietnam has a good representation of the old and new portions of that city if you're looking for references (including interiors). At least going by that game there's was a good deal in variety of the architecture in the area, and whilst different styles did have defined boundaries in places, you could just cross a street and go back centuries in terms of what the buildings looked like (which is just fine for wargaming boards...).
(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/006/713/011/large/glynn-richards-vietnam-003-copy.jpg?1500676629)
(https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/006/587/202/large/will-bullen-418460-20170709201107-1.jpg?1499731644)
Particularly what I felt set the locations in that game apart was all the contemporary cars and street furniture. Which isn't really something I'd seen much at wargames show boards covering the setting unfortunately. I couldn't speak for actually sourcing any vehicles from this period however, well outside of old diecast ranges (which I suppose as a load of the vehicles in Vietnam at the time were from the West, wouldn't make sourcing diecasts as difficult as it could be).
Great work so far. How is everything going to fit together? Are you going to stack each of those panels together, or will they fit into slots on a pre-defined board? As they are just sticking some roads and green areas in between would be enough for a board, but well, that's probably oversimplifying things. :)
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Very good start indeed.
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@W
Those are really good shots and comments. Very representative of a lot of the imagery (note the high walls to the gardens in the top photo). Shutters are indicative of the shops though I don’t have any commercial buildings planned at the mo, just aiming for a residential block of which some were described as having big houses on one side of the street and smaller on the other. I’m glad you mentioned civilian cars as they perhaps should feature in any Hue game, both as line of sight blockers and to be co-opted by the marines for moving men, supplies and equipment. I have a claimed 1/55 1960s VW Beetle by Siku on its way but I haven’t found any others as yet. :)
@M
Thank you - maybe you’ll play ?! ;)
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Silent Invader.
Great start on your buildings.
I have spent a lot of time in the last few years,
thinking how to build a Hue battlefield.
I still have not settled on what I want to do.
Seeing you start on your's, makes me think I need to get started.
With all the new figures coming out, its an excellent time to refocus.
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The forthcoming ranges are a great motivator. :D
I see Hue as an interesting wargame, what with ‘block by block’ fighting it lends itself to small as well as large boards. The ‘difficulty’ I had was in deciding on old or new city, then whether to stage the terrain as early (limited destruction) or late (in places flattened) and settled for broadly in between the two.
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I've visited Vietnam, admittedly not Hue and the small modern concrete/ brick dwellings from the 50s-70s far outnumber any larger colonial structures at least in Saigon, as you might expect.
As an aside, the Italeri train station makes a good proxy for some of those French buildings. The roof is battle damaged, if you want an intact version, it's easy enough to replace the roof tiling with vac formed sheet. Don't be put off by the nominal 1/72 scale. I find it works well with 28mm. Overall a very useful kit compatible with a variety of settings.
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I like what you've done so far, looks like it's going to be a great table to play on when it's done.
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Thanks folks. :)
Thanks for the suggestion Carlos:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/37/2031-060319081541.jpeg)
Regarding vehicles, the Disney Cars has a number of 1/55 models that look like they might be suitable.
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Regarding vehicles, the Disney Cars has a number of 1/55 models that look like they might be suitable.
Apart from the faces lol
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Apart from the faces lol
:D
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Also look out for the Welly range. They are nominally 1/60 but more like fit the box. They do a great little 2CV, perfect for Vietnam that fits well with 28mm. If you tire of Vietnam you can always sing Lloyd Cole songs to it.
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The 2CV sounds intetesting. Are you sure it fits 28mm? On ebay it is labelled as scale between 1:24 - 1:39
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They make it in several scales. If it fits, it’s a nice looking model.
From the Welly website:
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WOW excellent. Love the arch. I was looking at that the other day funny enough. :-*
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Thanks! Almost ordered a 1:24 lol
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Would a Citroen C4F truck qualify for the streets of Hue? Solido has a good one in 1:50...sorry for derailing this thread...
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Would a Citroen C4F truck qualify for the streets of Hue? Solido has a good one in 1:50...sorry for derailing this thread...
Don't see why not, quite a lot of vehicles of French origin show up in photos from Vietnam.
https://www.goldismoney2.com/threads/old-photos-of-horse-carts-on-the-streets-of-saigon-vietnam-in-the-1950s-and-1960s.79876/
https://www.goldismoney2.com/threads/street-scenes-of-saigon-vietnam-from-between-1970-1975-in-color.78522/
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9UeyhW6hbp4/VSnwF8ANESI/AAAAAAABa58/5xUFo5WCg80/s1600/Saigon%2C%2B1970-75%2B(26).jpg)
A bit of a challenge! I think there's a Citroen truck under that.
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If you chose to build one. Then there's a good starting point in The Follies range. It's a generic truck with the banners built in.
A quick wheel change would up date it .
Mark.
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WOW excellent. Love the arch. I was looking at that the other day funny enough. :-*
Thanks.
“WOW excellent” was pretty much my reaction on seeing the first of your minis.
:D
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Great photos of the trucks. I started a new vehicles thread to stop my derailing of this excellent buildings thread ;)
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Thanks.
“WOW excellent” was pretty much my reaction on seeing the first of your minis.
:D
Luv you long time lol
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Luv you long time lol
lol lol lol
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The project hasn’t stalled, it’s just slowly progressing alongside others ;) With that in mind here’s an update on the buildings and 1/56 vehicles.
Firstly though, I’ve received my first 16 minis from Empress, of which 14 have slotted into the TO&E of a rifle platoon with two attached M60s. My 1968 Nam project is exclusive to the Hue Triangle - its a ‘attack/defend the block’ game - so I’m not bothering with minis, vehicles or terrain that go beyond those parameters. I have it in mind to game the National Liberation Front as a non-player force with the USMC platoon components ‘diced for’ after their objective has been decided. This means a fair few USMC minis might never get played with but, hey, they’ll look nice on my shelves. Unfortunately, Empress have interfered with my planning by revealing loads more lovely minis! :D I might now be making two platoons (or maybe two reduced platoons) worth.
Anyways, back to progress. I’ve started on a few more buildings, namely a Church, detached house, pair of semi houses and a low-walled public garden that will get a water fountain.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419113355-387201753.jpeg)
These have been cut out and assembled onto their 4mm MDF bases (which provide the kerbs) but I have yet to add floors or roofs and break out shelling damage, etc.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419113355-38726837.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419113355-38727213.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419113355-38728144.jpeg)
I have MDF bases to assemble 2 more large buildings and 6 long, thin perimeter facades (from which to launch the attack on or support the defence of the block or blocks laid out as the main part of the table).
I’ve also accumulated a few 1/55 - 1/56 vehicles, which are my personal preference for these minis.
A Siku VW beetle and two ‘period-like’ stand-ins from Disney Cars.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419113355-38729935.jpeg)
An Empress M60 gunner (in this photo the bipod and ammo belt* have yet to be fitted) with the VW Love Bug:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419113518-38730470.jpeg)
*Btw, the option of a C-Rat can under the belt is a great little addition (though it’s not in the belt-less pre-assembly image above)
As far as military vehicles in 1/56 go, so far I’ve only been able to track down an Ontos (price is a bit “ouch” :'() but still looking before I buy.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419113518-38731109.jpeg)
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Have a look at Full Metal Miniatures.... they are releasing 1/56 Vietnam vehicles... my preferred scale too... in the next few weeks.
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BPM does a 1/56 Ontos for 12£. I know some people is quite negative on them, but I think that the criticism in undeserved. The image on the website are from the 15mm version andd the picture is very close so the layering is quite visible, in real life it is much less pronounced. On top of that their plastic is much better than the WSF from shapeways.
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The buildings look like a good start.
The system you describe sounds interesting. I had wondered about a TWD:AOW threat level system to generate opposition and a simple decision tree for their behaviour (most based on who to shoot at).
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Thanks folks, much appreciated :)
Of the 1/56 offerings of the Ontos, assuming its cast in resin then I’m inclined towards that by Full Metal Miniatures. I’m hoping the drawings are early versions as a few bits of detail are missing but the overall shape does seem to be a better match. And of course resin will avoid me having to remove all those print lines.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-250419152932.jpeg)
The system you describe sounds interesting. I had wondered about a TWD:AOW threat level system to generate opposition and a simple decision tree for their behaviour (most based on who to shoot at).
Urban clearance lends itself well to such a system. Over time I’ve written up a few decision trees for various periods/scenarios so I’m confident. :D
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Totes ;D
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Wicked cool :D
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For those interested in 1/56 vehicles, I’ve already heard back from Simon at Full Metal Miniatures with the following update on availability of the Ontos:
The Ontos will be out middle to end of May. Was hoping it would be sooner but am snowed under with casting figures at the moment. First vehicles will be released middle to end of next week. They are the M41 and M42. Next will be M48 and PBR followed by sampans and Ontos. Sorry for the delay and any inconvenience caused!
It’s worth mentioning that Simon responded within minutes to the contact form sent from his website.
https://www.fullmetalminiatures.com (https://www.fullmetalminiatures.com)
Totes ;D
And you’re hilarious lol
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Wicked cool :D
And you’re also hilarious :D
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Oooj, someone has been busy! I like what you've done. Hopefully I'll get a game! :D
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want to know something wicked? Be an Ontos driver and be with your head out when all six RCL fire...
eons ago I corresponded with a former US Marine who served also as an Ontos driver and he told me the story (he also ended up re-enlisting, but in the Army after Vietnam and ended up commanding a brigade in Korea... that was a great story. He also worked with General Pearson in writing War in the Northern Provinces the US Army monograph on operations in the northern part of RVN. And he was (I suppose still is) a miniature gamer!
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want to know something wicked? Be an Ontos driver and be with your head out when all six RCL fire...
:o
Actually it’d be a cool mod to have an exposed driver!
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I've just last night finished reading Tom Abrahams story of an Englishman in the US Army, served with 1 Air Cav as a platoon leader, was captured, tortured and escaped only to have a breakdown after a DUI arrest in the UK. Very interesting read particularly the Hue section.
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Sadly the book by Tom Abrahams is full of mistruths http://www.miafacts.org/the_cage.htm
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The terrain boards look great! My only suggestion would be to have shallower pitch to the roofs. Coastal Vietnam is not known for winter snowfall so sharply pitched roofs are rather uncommon.
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Interesting, I shall read on with your links.
Sadly the book by Tom Abrahams is full of mistruths http://www.miafacts.org/the_cage.htm
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The terrain boards look great! My only suggestion would be to have shallower pitch to the roofs. Coastal Vietnam is not known for winter snowfall so sharply pitched roofs are rather uncommon.
Thanks and yes. Only one of the roof lines is finished (ie tiles added) so they’re not in final form/profile.
Roof height was a bit of a conundrum in arriving at a mixed set of buildings for a block in The Triangle. I want some buildings with height for multi-level play. Looking at photos (not all of Hue), the sharper pitched, more modern (for then) examples of residential buildings seem to have had rooms in the roof, which in construction terms and for gaming makes for an easy extra level.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419104153-387471928.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419104151-387321107.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419104153-387461152.jpeg)
For the prominent building, I was looking at French Colonial influences (see partial roofline towards top right):
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419104154-387481152.jpeg)
The church - being a church - is a different matter. Obviously it’s construction is more of a statement rather than a concession to local design/weather.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419104152-387451010.jpeg)
All the above explanation aside, I agree that they need fine-tuning, which will come next. I also acknowledge that a block of just steeper pitched roofs will just look wrong as, as you say, they are very much the minority. I’ve still got two building tiles to make and they will be of a single-story, shallower-pitch style. For example:
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419110631-387492262.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419110632-38750670.jpeg)
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/38/2031-260419110632-387511964.jpeg)
I’ve also got the facades at the board edge to make, which will also be single-story (they need to be reached over). The end result should therefore be more of a mix favoured towards the shallower-pitch, though if it doesn’t look right I will fine-tune as I go along. Very happy to be corrected if I stray. :)
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Streets and shops
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Thanks Shipka but I’m not doing anything like those, mine is mostly a residential block with a few semi-official buildings
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Their is a good series on Youtube then and now film https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRYJZAN9AuI which should help