Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Antonio J Carrasco on March 23, 2019, 11:22:13 AM
-
Wonder if anyone could give some advice about rulesets to use for Nam.
My idea is for skirmish games, to be playable in 120x180cms, although preferably 90x90. I had in mind to adapt Spectre Operations or Skirmish Sangin, although a friend of mine suggested to use either an adaptation of The Men Who Would be Kings (I don't see how it could work, to be honest) or Games Workshop Killteam ruleset (which looks easier to adapt to modern combat, actually).
Thanks in advance!
-
Osprey Black Ops? Minimal(basically no) adaptation required. Fits your space requirement. Not period specific, just a modern/contemporary skirmish set.
I assume you ask for 28mm....
-
DMZ, a variant of Chain of Command, available on the Chain of Command FB page IIRC?
-
Force on Force? They even have a supplement specufic to Vietnam, albeit the info on the Australians is utter bollocks.
Charlie Company from RAFM was, at the time, a fairly innovative game designed for squad and platoon scale sections. It has the great advantage that it can be readily played as a solo game. They still sell it.
http://www.rafm.com/charlie/charlie.html
-
For platoon based infantry Id second the Chain of Command variant. Also if you can find a copy of FNG by Two Hour Wargames or their Special Forces variant designed specifically for Vietnam, FNG: Unconventional Warfare. Both if these have competitive, co-op, and solo rukes that work well.
I always liked the idea of Charlie Company, but doesnt it require a Gamemaster who plays the VC/NVA?
-
Thanks for the suggestions. I will look CoC variant. I've played CoC WWII version and enjoyed the experience.
-
I have been thinking about to use the second edition of "Spectre Operations", or "Five Core".
-
When you use Killteam have a look here: https://freewargamesrules.fandom.com/wiki/Warhammer_Nam (https://freewargamesrules.fandom.com/wiki/Warhammer_Nam)
Maybe it helps. I think I will use Disposable Heroes and Long Road south from Iron Ivan Games. Specter 2nd arrived yesterday, so i need to look in it in a quiet moment. I think it is more for this time and not for 1968...
-
My suggestion would be to go back a few years and look for rules such as;
Body Count. Very old and possibly to be found on Ebay. A bit complicated but full of fantastic ideas.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/26766/bodycount-wargames-rules-vietnam-war
Charlie Don't Surf. never played them but they read well.
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/product/charlie-dont-surf/
FNG. Not played these but they seem to flow very well.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/25575/fng
-
Wow! Great suggestions all! Thanks!
-
For a bit of Retro, Hell and Fateful Decisions by Jim Webster. It is a long time since I read it but I do remember there was a lot about the effect of casualties on morale. Generic post WW1 ruleset.
I found all that Tabletop Games stuff:
http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.com/2019/01/twilight-2000-reference-material-2.html (http://ultravanillasmurf.blogspot.com/2019/01/twilight-2000-reference-material-2.html)
I should be able to find that.
-
As a slightly off the wall suggestion (and has been discussed elsewhere), The Walking Dead: All Out War might work for a solo or cooperative game (playing as US and allies).
The Threat level mechanism handles the opposition reinforcements, the die colour quality of opponent and the Headshot/bite symbols indicate heavier weapons (again dependent on die colour).
Actions to reduce the Threat Level can be viewed as off table distractions drawing the opposition's attention away.
Additional mechanisms are needed for "AI" for the opposition, a simple decision tree would work, depending on their situation. Target priority based on the Noise or Mayhem rules (if you make Noise the nearest opponent with Line Of Sight shoots at you, if you make Mayhem, every opponent with LOS and in response range shoots at you).
Emplaced belt fed weapons can fire everytime (limited arc/LOS), everything else can "shoot" once (might have multiple shots)
Just a thought.
-
My go to rules are Force on Force: Ambush Valley, and find they accurately portray the claustrophobic jungle firefights using anything from 3 fireteams up to a reinforced platoon. I've played other periods using the rules with a full company and find the reaction system gets VERY complicated if too many units are in play.
I've also got all of the Skirmish Sangin books that I plan on using for some section level patrol actions. There are some basic Solo adaptions available on the Dishdash Forum that look promising. http://skirmishsangin.freeforums.net/thread/150/solo-rules (http://skirmishsangin.freeforums.net/thread/150/solo-rules).
-
As a slightly off the wall suggestion (and has been discussed elsewhere), The Walking Dead: All Out War might work for a solo or cooperative game (playing as US and allies).
The Threat level mechanism handles the opposition reinforcements, the die colour quality of opponent and the Headshot/bite symbols indicate heavier weapons (again dependent on die colour).
Actions to reduce the Threat Level can be viewed as off table distractions drawing the opposition's attention away.
Additional mechanisms are needed for "AI" for the opposition, a simple decision tree would work, depending on their situation. Target priority based on the Noise or Mayhem rules (if you make Noise the nearest opponent with Line Of Sight shoots at you, if you make Mayhem, every opponent with LOS and in response range shoots at you).
Emplaced belt fed weapons can fire everytime (limited arc/LOS), everything else can "shoot" once (might have multiple shots)
Just a thought.
Must admit, that sounds a pretty good idea, certainly for a small Hue Board, say 4 by 4, could cut down on figures as well if solo, as the NVA would mostly be hidden, and imagined rather than on table figures.
-
Must admit, that sounds a pretty good idea, certainly for a small Hue Board, say 4 by 4, could cut down on figures as well if solo, as the NVA would mostly be hidden, and imagined rather than on table figures.
Good point, especially as one of the American frustrations was not finding any bodies.
-
My suggestion would be to go back a few years and look for rules such as;
Body Count. Very old and possibly to be found on Ebay. A bit complicated but full of fantastic ideas.
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/26766/bodycount-wargames-rules-vietnam-war
Second this suggestion, really good rules. Also from the same era and with the same innovative approach is "Giac Mai". Long OOP but does crop up on eBay and if you have good Google fu there was a pdf floating around teh web for a while.
I remember a participation game at a wargame show many years ago of Giac Mai where the players were all US and the umpire controlled the VC. But there were no actual VC troops, just booby traps and "shadows". US players ended up inflicting more casualties on each other than the VC traps caused.
Another good option is the Vietnam Variant of Crossfire (Contre les Viets), brilliant if you like the mechanics of Crossfire, avoid it if you don't.
-
I forgot Disposable Heroes, second Edition is nice... The Vietnam-Supplement is Long road south
-
Bolt Action Vietnam
-
Another thumbs up for Force on Force and the unofficial Chain of Command Vietnam variant. Must admit, though, thinking of writing my own...(always enjoyed writing my own rules... )
-
I have spare brand new copy of Charlie don't Surf by Two Fat Lardies, 15 quid if you want them?
-
How about Peter Pig's 'Boys from company B'
Designed for 15mm, but you could replace each base of 15mm figures with one 28mm Figure.
-
Charlie Company from RAFM was, at the time, a fairly innovative game designed for squad and platoon scale sections. It has the great advantage that it can be readily played as a solo game. They still sell it.
http://www.rafm.com/charlie/charlie.html
I played this a bit way back when. The game was great, and the campaign system is brilliant.
-
I can also recommend Force On Force especially for Hue
-
I have used Crossfire, by Arty Conliffe, with good results. Give the VC/NVA lots of snipers and hidden set-up with spider holes.
I ran it several times with Three American players who each had mortars or Artillery, A M-113, HMGs etc. They outnumbered the VC. The Americans were told to sweep the area of VC and not lose more units then the other American players. The VC objective was to cause American casualties. Lots of terrain of course. Most games the American players became cautious as soon as they took losses. I think it captured the "feel" of the war.
-
I am reading "Ultracombat: Normandy" now, and I think this can be a good ruleset for the Vietnam War. I expect to play a test game when my Empress Miniatures Marines arrive.
-
As a slightly off the wall suggestion (and has been discussed elsewhere), The Walking Dead: All Out War might work for a solo or cooperative game (playing as US and allies).
Wow, I was thinking exactly the same just a couple of weeks ago. I thought it would be great because you could have your Green troops freaking out as the threat level got higher and the NCOs trying to calm everything down. The cards from ambush alley would great to replace the WD ones.
I also thought that as the threat level rose you could introduce more reinforcements in a similar way to FNG. (I'm not keen on 2 hour wargames mechanics but I like some of the concepts).
I also thought it might be interesting to have 2 threat trackers, one for the US/allies and one for the NVA/VC. Almost like moral trackers that governed what troops would do, assets available, booby traps etc.
Needs more thought
-
This month there will be a new version of FNG and a new version of FNG:UW
http://2hourblog.blogspot.com/2019/04/coming-next-month-fng-tour-of-duty-and.html
-
I will try it soon with fireteam: modern
-
Spectre V2 or Black Ops would be our call if you are going commercial rather than writing your own.
-
Still at early stages of reading into this so my thoughts are probably still a little “naive” but my thinking so far is that the war is so unique it may require specific rather than generic rules?
I suppose it depends in what sort of scenario you are playing eg modern special forces style skirmish rules might cater well for an LRRP style scenario (or maybe even street fighting in Hue?) but won’t catch properly the challenges of a drafted platoon conducting a sweep in the boonies, tunnel rats, larger engagements like Ia Drang or the Easter Offensive of 1972 etc.
Still v unclear which way I’ll go but finding the whole thing absolutely fascinating! So much to try and understand and think about! (Plus, not many other periods have such brilliant background music you can play.... !)
-
I am going with Spectre they have a free scenario packet for Jungle gaming on their website.
-
From the delta to the dmz.
Stand to a, squad. Awesome set of rules. Not sure if they are still available though.
-
Yes they are...
https://gomidesigns.co.uk/Vietnam
-
I'd say it depends on the level of detail you want for your models, and wether you are scenario or point driven.
My go-to for Vietnam would be Spectre Operations V2 - Fast, brutal and with rules that covers Off Table Assets like Arty Strike and Gunships - The free Jungle Supplement also expands on the setting and gives you rules for Punji-sticks, jingle-wires and other nastiness! The Campaign fram could easily be modded and the scenarios likewise.