Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Jeff965 on April 28, 2019, 11:56:01 AM
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I recieved these rules last week and so me and Romark had our first game with them this week. I don't have any 28mm Ancients so I used my 15mm Xyston miniatures but the units had a similar footprint to the larger figures.
The rules are figure scale and base agnostic and you don't remove individual casualties so you could play with bits of card if you like.
We used two armies straight out of the book and played the first scenario which is a last man standing pitched battle and is ideal for learning the basics.
The Spartan forces consisted of two elite hoplite units, one drilled hoplite unit and two units of skirmishers.
They were up against a Macedonian force consisting of two pike Phalanxes, one light hoplite unit, two units of Peltasts and one unit of skirmishers.
I set up some really simple terrain on a 6x4 foot table consisting of a small farm and ploughed fields (difficult terrain) a small river (dangerous terrain) and the rest just consisted of rolling plain (open terrain).
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Both forces deployed 6" into the table, I was the Spartan commander and Romark commanded the Macedonians.
My plan was to advance my line of hoplites and anchor their flanks on the two difficult terrain features. I deployed my skirmishers on the flanks as well hoping to hold off any attempts of the Macedonians to get around me and into the rear of my troops.
The Macedonians advanced in line off their ridge and by move two they were having to cross the river.
The game is broken down into turns and each turn has a couple of phases. The troops are driven by 'Arête points' you get one point for each unit on the table plus one for your General (the Spartans therefore had 6 and the Macedonians 7).
You use these points initally to bid for the initiative in the turn, after that they are used for a number of reasons like rallying your troops, charging into contact, re-rolling dice and using special rules as well as trying to steal the initiative off your opponent.
I really like this system as it keeps both players involved and has you making constant descisions through the turn.
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Come move three my plan for the skirmishers on the right flank had changed, I decided to pay an Arête point for them to use one of their special rules that allows them to shoot after moving.
They pushed forward and caught the Macedonian Generals pike phalanx crossing the river they threw their javelins and caused the Generals unit to lose a courage point.
The Macedonian General promptly snatched the initiative and charged his unit over the river hitting the skirmishers and wiping them out (oops).
The player with the initative activates his units one at a time, the unit may then move, shoot or fight, however some units have a special rule that allows them to shoot at the end of a move as long as they pay an arête point to use the special rule.
The inactive player can pay an arête point to snatch the initative (a simple roll off between the players using a d6, if the inactive player rolls highest then the initative becomes his)
You can probably see by now how the game makes you try to decide how to use your arête points.
Each unit has a courage score which is reduced each time they take casualties, when it gets to zero they rout off the table.
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My drilled unit of hoplites on my right flank would now have to do the job I had originally wanted the skirmishers to do (ahh well).
There was to be more grief for me as Romark got his Peltasts into cover on both flanks and started a shoot out with my remaining skirmish unit on my left who promptly downed tools and buggered off (oh no :-[)
He then had the audacity to shoot at my drilled hoplites on the other flank causing more casualties.
With my flanks in tatters it was time to take some drastic action in the centre.
There is an end phase to each turn which tidys up the battlefield with compulsory movement and tests for your army as it loses troops. Once this is done its time to dish out the Arête points again and bid for the initative (one arête point less for me now I'd lost my skirmish unit)
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Throwing arête points around like confetti I formed my two elite hoplite units (one containing my General) into Phalanx and charged his Generals pike phalanx catching him in open order.
My Generals unit was supported by one other hoplite unit whilst his Generals unit was supported by another pike phalanx and a light hoplite unit.
When fighting you get extra dice for being in close order (phalanx) charging, and being supported by other units.
Despite his numerical superiority I was in close order, he countercharged (another special rule you pay arête points for) and so it was a pretty even fight.
Trouble is I rolled really poorly and he won the Melee depleting my courage score and pushing me back. Whatever happens to the fighting unit happens to the supporting units as well so they were pushed back with me.
You can see a number of markers in the photos, the micro dice is keeping track of courage and the red discs show that a unit is wavering and needs to be rallied (for which you need to spend an arête point, are you getting this now? Lol)
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Things were not looking good for the Spartans now, my Generals unit were down to one courage point and wavering, the drilled hoplites were out on a limb, my only consolation was that his Generals unit was in a poor state as well.
Romark decided to form his Generals unit up into close order and then moved the pike phalanx and hoplites supporting him to attack my drilled hoplites who were also being shot at by the Peltasts and psiloi on the other side of the river (they really were up shit creek without a paddle).
They managed to fight off the attack from the front but were broken and routed by shooting from the light troops (shiiiiiiiiiiiit)
Ahh well in for a penny.... I broke my Generals unit down into open order and had them run out of the way which allowed my last elite phalanx to again charge his Generals unit which now was unsupported and vulnerable. We rolled off and I won killing his General.
In the end phase of the move the Macedonians had to take collapse tests which is basically a test of their discipline only if it's failed the unit immediatley routs and is removed. Cutting off the head to remove the body was my plan all along (yeh right) and Romark had really bad rolls for his collapse tests (about time).
At the end of the turn all the Macedonians had routed bar one phalanx (he must have been a really popular General lol)
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There were only three units left on the table now, my two elite hoplites and his remaining pike phalanx.
One charge did for them and I held the field and won SPARTA!!!!!!
I enjoyed this game and will be playing it again in the future.
I had read the rules once and my opponent hadn't read them at all so it was a bit of a slow and clunky first game, but I definitely see the makings of a very enjoyable set of rules here.
The only thing I'm not keen on is how supporting infantry are deployed. You have the two units that are fighting in contact obviously but you can support your units if the officer figure from other units is within 3 base widths (inches in my case) of the unit in Melee. If he is you move the unit that is going to support directly behind the fighting unit and you effectively end up with a queue of units which just doesn't look right.
In future games I'll see if just having the officer close enough and not moving the supporting unit works and still having the results of the Melee effect both units (I've just read that back, I hope it makes sense)
Anyway if you are still with me this far, I got these rules off Amazon for under a tenner and they are worth a tenner of anyone's money, I hope there will be supplements covering other periods as I don't think that would be to difficult to do :)
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That is a:
1) great battle report
2) fantastic looking table
3) great example of how the rules play...
thank you for posting!
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great battle, I was rooting for the Macedonians, sorry, I hate Sparta! lol
Your issues with the support systems are worth to explore, considering Eric is a member of this forum, it would be nice ot hear his thought about the system.
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Aye, a great report. Looking forward to getting my first game in soon!
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Good report. Nice terrain and figs too.
I agree with the support thing...3 bases doesn't quite seem to be enough. Likewise Evading D3BW doesn't seem to be enough either.
But these are wee niggles and I agree with you. Well worth a tenner and well worth a try .
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Looks like it was a great game! Well played.
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Good report. Nice terrain and figs too.
I agree with the support thing...3 bases doesn't quite seem to be enough. Likewise Evading D3BW doesn't seem to be enough either.
But these are wee niggles and I agree with you. Well worth a tenner and well worth a try .
First of all, great looking game and figures.
I also tried a game on the weekend with Saxons standing in for Hellenes and Vikings as non-Hellenes. My psiloi got hammered as charging hoplites can move 12 BW (double normal movement). Psiloi need to be within 6 BW to shoot and can only evade 1-3BW, so were caught every time. Possibly just doing something wrong here.
The support system doesn't work for me either. Lining up behind the supported unit doesn't fit my idea of hoplite warfare. Again, I may be misinterpreting the rules.
There is a lot to like in Men of Bronze but I wish there was less historical information and more explanation of game mechanisms.
Oh, and to be a pedant (sorry :-X), in case there is a second edition, the hoplite shield is not a hoplon, it is an aspis. Possibly just snuck through the proof reading.
I am keen to give things another go this coming weekend, especially after some clarification of the rules.
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Nice pics and write up Jeff,just as I remember it ! :'(
lol
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Truly a What "If" scenario.... a little Laconic humor there! lol
First off, great battle report! I enjoyed the heck out of it and really liked the force choices. A great summary of how the game plays.
I am glad you noticed that shooting with javelins is 6 BW (archers and slingers 12 BW) but a Phalanx can possibly charge 12 BW with an Arete point. You really need to think hard about how you want to use those missile troops. The temptation to move and shoot can lead you to make a move like you did in this very battle report that ends up losing you a unit for small reward. You need to get the Peltasts/psiloi to the right location to "support". After all, the Men of Bronze are the stars, not the shepherds throwing sticks.
The game requires more careful deployment and maneuver than a first read might lead you to believe. Hence the 3 and 1d3 Base widths for Support/Evade. If you are poorly deployed to support and maximize your troops.... you are going to have a tough time making that up.
Now, how you align the "support" units was completely a choice I made as a designer to clean up the board continue to have space for some maneuver outside of the melee but still allow quick visual management of what units were doing what on the table. In my play tests, it got way too "clunky" and "confusing" on the board so these mechanics were developed to reduce that. They are not essential.
Choices and friction are the name of the game. That being said, I will be the first person to say these rules are not perfect. If you prefer 1d6 BW for Evade/Pursue or 6 BW to support, go for it! I am eager to read about it!
I am super excited to read more battle reports!
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Thanks for taking the time to comment chaps, I'll be playing another game tomorrow with similar forces and terrain but possibly a different opponent.
I'm going to experiment with leaving the supporting units where they stand so that my line of battle remains intact and I may put on a couple of cavalry units to see how they fare :)
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Nice retake of the Spartan revolt 331 BC! Coragus dies again- I reckon he was popular (at least in your skirmish). Nice looking game and observations.
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Second game using these rules, my Spartans again take on my Macedonians. However I've changed the make up of the forces taking them to 52 points and including Heavy Cavalry.
Spartans
3x elite Hoplite infantry
2 X Psiloi
1x Heavy Cavalry
Macedonians
3 X units of Pike
2 X Peltasts
1 X unit of Psiloi
1 X Heavy Cavalry
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I again took the Spartans and deployed them 6" onto the table with the hoplites on the right and cavalry an psiloi on the left.
My opponent Meirion55 who hadn't played the rules before had the Macedonians, he deployed his pike in three solid phalanxes with two units of peltasts on his right and the cavalry and psiloi in reserve.
The scenario was again the first one from the book, a sort of last man standing scenario.
My plan was to take out his General and cause collapse tests, I did this last week and it worked, so stick to what you know.
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The Macedonians advanced and their cavalry and psiloi moved to their left flank, the peltasts on the right paid points to cross the difficult terrain.
I did much the same though I kept my hoplites in open order for now.
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On the Spartan left flank the Macedonian Peltasts advanced to meet the Spartan light infantry and cavalry, one of the Peltast units charged forward and entered Melee with one of the Spartan psiloi units beating it easily and forcing it back.
However it had advanced to far forward and the Spartan cavalry charged into its rear decimating the unit and saving the psiloi in the bargain.
I was so engrossed with this part of the action I forgot to take photos so here's a photo of the Macedonian Companions sauntering about the battlefield like they own it lol
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The two psiloi units now deal with the second unit of peltasts whilst the cavalry look on, the peltasts charge but with the psiloi supported by their brothers and upping their armour by being in the difficult terrain they see the peltasts off and then finish them with javelins
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On the other flank the heavy infantry battle gets underway with the cavalry joining in, they had managed to out flank my infantry.
With the push and shove the fight goes to the Macedonians, I lose two heavy units to their one but help is on its way
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My skirmishers and cavalry arrive in the nick of time, I pull back my last hoplite unit and my opponent charges one of my psiloi rather than going for my General.
The cavalry Duke it out and my side wins.
Collapse tests for both sides result in him losing a unit of psiloi
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We had to finish here as time had run out, but I think the battle could go either way, Meirions two remaining units only have one courage point left.
My units are in better shape but who knows what would have happened.
There were a few things that came to mind from this game. I think we were trying to run before we could walk by playing with 52 points, maybe we should have stuck to last weeks forces.
A QRS would have come in handy when playing and may have saved us thumbing through the rule book.
I didn't move supporting units in Melee directly behind the fighting unit, I left them where they were. This had no negative impact on the game and for me gave a better look to the battlefield.
However I may in future mark units in support so then I will remember to move them back if the unit in Melee gets pushed back.
We made a few mistakes but that's how we learn, such things as rolling discipline tests when units courage is reduced to 2 and 1, and keeping a track of the percentage of points lost as the game progressed because at certain stages losing troops causes collapse tests.
I have a few questions for the Q&A sheet that Eric is putting together -
1. If a unit is trapped in Melee because it has been charged in the rear whilst fighting to its front how can it retire or is it destroyed?
2. Can you fire into a Melee?
3. Does a counter charge count as that units activation that turn?
4. A situation arose whereby my Hoplites countercharged and entered a Melee with a charging enemy pike unit, I got the best of him and he had to fall back, I followed up.
I was then charged in the rear by his cavalry unit, if I still had an arête point could I have broken off from the infantry and countercharged the cavalry ?
Couple more battles and I'm sure the games will go a lot quicker and we'll be able to complete them, unlike this one lol.
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Nice write up Jeff,mins look great :)
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Another useful write up and a great looking game too.
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Added your questions to the FAQ that should be out tomorrow on my blog.
Keep asking and I will keep updating the FAQ.
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Jeff.
Nice post, loved the figures and your wide/shallow hoplites vs deeper phalangites.
(Look forward to reading the FAQ too).
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Thanks for the kind comments chaps, hope the thread has been helpful to some :)