Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Conflicts that came in from the Cold => Topic started by: Volleyfire! on June 01, 2019, 11:27:52 PM
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For those of you like myself who frequent Facebook check out Wargames Soldiers & Strategy's page as they were at UK Expo 2019 in Brum today and posted pics of the forthcoming Warlord Korean War range (and Judge Dredd). Here's a link for those of you who are on fb. https://www.facebook.com/WSSMagazine/photos/pcb.2164837423565602/2164836906898987/?type=3&__tn__=HH-R&eid=ARDBWe57siahcoR6bnZJ_bxg_tnFSULYmGLvizzB2JfFRK34ryYuEKPnMAbjCAIxAT8FK8YoPIUTovM9&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARB9uS-3IgyppB83G3UmI0Qy120rdEhkoasAogYn5RCbLJfyQ8vonNK_5oxZssHtBCreC5Jr_M_Wwzgng1wr2uFk1Ou8oqyQWyWsq6GeiK6Om8PnV_jrytm6pGXk1bbrZ4Fh77fqZzjw45jwxyxr1SIuPzL6X_kFcslDLF1HLu9rmFWZVQoaoeA7IjFow6zucMxWCaNKzyvFxl858cW25sONjX4LxZ4lFPHdMlfqOlkvuICatltpSbOqGKW9yqA1QL567LHlkBViBSYVR0v6AAjoFAer6sX_Ckvgph2m6VT9qeaHLob5xMI0uBXypsb8eNbLdPIfx4DiT5v3N_f1428NYQ (https://www.facebook.com/WSSMagazine/photos/pcb.2164837423565602/2164836906898987/?type=3&__tn__=HH-R&eid=ARDBWe57siahcoR6bnZJ_bxg_tnFSULYmGLvizzB2JfFRK34ryYuEKPnMAbjCAIxAT8FK8YoPIUTovM9&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARB9uS-3IgyppB83G3UmI0Qy120rdEhkoasAogYn5RCbLJfyQ8vonNK_5oxZssHtBCreC5Jr_M_Wwzgng1wr2uFk1Ou8oqyQWyWsq6GeiK6Om8PnV_jrytm6pGXk1bbrZ4Fh77fqZzjw45jwxyxr1SIuPzL6X_kFcslDLF1HLu9rmFWZVQoaoeA7IjFow6zucMxWCaNKzyvFxl858cW25sONjX4LxZ4lFPHdMlfqOlkvuICatltpSbOqGKW9yqA1QL567LHlkBViBSYVR0v6AAjoFAer6sX_Ckvgph2m6VT9qeaHLob5xMI0uBXypsb8eNbLdPIfx4DiT5v3N_f1428NYQ)
From the look of the photos the figures are excellent, not a gurning face in sight and sensibly proportioned.
If you click on the photo and then go back about 6 pictures there are more Korean War, including a set of very well done MASH figures.
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Well if nothing else it suggests I will likely pick up a pack or two of the Brits to use for other conflicts.
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Those dont look, half bad. Fingers crosse that they look decent in person.
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Some of the British taken at Salute, unfortunately I didn't take pictures of the North Korean or Chinese figures.
Also I'm not very good at talking pictures :(
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I love those Brits! If I can find an SLR in scale then I reckon they'd make fantastic Commonwealth troops for Malaysia and Indonesia :)
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I love those Brits! If I can find an SLR in scale then I reckon they'd make fantastic Commonwealth troops for Malaysia and Indonesia :)
You might want to look at Eureka's Aden ranage
http://www.eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_126_150_853
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Yeah, kind of reinventing the wheel. :)
For completeness sake Commando Miniatures also do a range of 1960s British Army in tropical gear.
On the other hand I can see the Warlord 3.5” bazooka joining my Eureka platoons. I might buy a pack for Mau Mau and I can definitely see myself buying some to field as Tanganyikan Rifles.
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I also believe that Studio Miniatures are doing a range of British figures for Suez and End of Empire in late 2019.
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Also I'm not very good at talking pictures :(
No one is. Not a single one of my pictures has ever talked to me.
;)
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I also believe that Studio Miniatures are doing a range of British figures for Suez and End of Empire in late 2019.
Now that’s got my attention! WW2 British paras are all you really need for the shooty bits of Suez but I have always wanted a decent range of post war Brits to fight EOKA or hunt down Stern Gangers.
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I love those Brits! If I can find an SLR in scale then I reckon they'd make fantastic Commonwealth troops for Malaysia and Indonesia :)
Have you tried Crooked Dice?
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The Assault Group also sell SLRs.
While you need them for Indonesia, for Malaya you just need Jungle Carbines
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I've seen the Centurion on one of their emails recently but hadn't noticed the M*A*S*H unit.... lol ;)
Brilliant.
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I think Commando Miniatures did a set of FN FALs, though I can't find them on their store. Another company sold separate sprues of them as well, not that I can remember their name. As did The Winter of '79 have a weapons set with one - though I haven't seen any of their accessory sets actually being sold anywhere online.
Unfortunately as a period its too early for many of the iconic Cold War era weapons to show up. Warlord doing sprues of plastic FN FAL and AKM. Even if to update these plastic sets to represent troops from later periods (if the uniforms match up that is). With Vietnam being focused on again by a few companies, how applicable would these figures be for that setting - just out of curiosity (as for expanding this line's customer base and if that effected Warlord's decision to go ahead with the line).
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Warlord actually have sprues of plastic AKMs. When they bought the Wargames Factory zombie range the survivors cane with very nicely sculpted separate AKMs. Of course the Zombie stuff has now disappeared.
As for suitability for Vietnam. No, not really and I’m not sure why you would go to the trouble of converting these, given there will be a dedicated Paul Hicks sculpted, Empress range along within the foreseeable future.
For Malaya, yes you want No5 rifles AKA the jungle carbine, along with M1 carbines. Britannia actually do a dedicated range in 28mm, the aesthetics of which I will leave to individual tastes.
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SLRs - another source is Eureka. I know they did SLRs for a friend to convert Warlord's Commandos to Wild Geese, so it means an email to Nic to ask if the mold is still there, or even if there's a box of leftovers. There may even have been other weapons as well - you can but ask.
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If you have yours hear set on converting instead of waiting for the Vietnam ANZACs from Empress, TAG makes seperat batches of FAL's.
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Those Wargames Factory AKs don't really hold up today. The profile of the early WGF weapons was really thick. They're something which Warlord could easily make themselves to be fair. Its a pity that the later Project Z sets, whilst having AKs, went for modernised ones (which isn't a problem - they were the only plastic source for red dots out there).
Crooked Dice have a set of AKs suitable for Warlord's proportions. Regardless, Warlord seem to be one of the few companies out there willing to put together weapons sprues - presumably due to recasting concerns. If they were to do a sprue of 1960s-70s weapons it would certainly be useful for so many settings. :)
(Just a pity that they won't)
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I've seen the Centurion on one of their emails recently but hadn't noticed the M*A*S*H unit.... lol ;)
Brilliant.
I'm hoping they do Henry Blake as well as Sherman Potter, and Trapper as well as BJ, but since it looks like Frank Burns and Charles Emerson Winchester III are both present I assume they have.
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Those Wargames Factory AKs don't really hold up today. The profile of the early WGF weapons was really thick. They're something which Warlord could easily make themselves to be fair. Its a pity that the later Project Z sets, whilst having AKs, went for modernised ones (which isn't a problem - they were the only plastic source for red dots out there).
Crooked Dice have a set of AKs suitable for Warlord's proportions. Regardless, Warlord seem to be one of the few companies out there willing to put together weapons sprues - presumably due to recasting concerns. If they were to do a sprue of 1960s-70s weapons it would certainly be useful for so many settings. :)
(Just a pity that they won't)
Au contraire. The WF AKs are quite slim and well proportioned. They actually look like AKs. The CD ones are quite cartoony and poorly rendered if the photos on their website are any guide.
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As a release date been mentioned for these figures?
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Au contraire. The WF AKs are quite slim and well proportioned. They actually look like AKs. The CD ones are quite cartoony and poorly rendered if the photos on their website are any guide.
Not across all their kits. The Survivors ones have handguards which are 3 times the width of the barrels. Thickness seems to vary between individual weapons however. For instance much of their WWII weaponry is fairly thing barring the DP-27 which has oddly thick furniture.
Which is the confusing thing. The furniture's what's thick, not the barrels. Like they were working from secondhand images of the real weapons. So despite other companies weapons being grossly large in comparison, those at least have consistent proportions across the whole weapon (or at least its the barrel which is larger, which I'd accept as its more likely to break off).
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Liking the MASH set that comes with it! lol
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It looks like the preorders for the Korean War range starts on Friday.
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Yep, I got my late war Yanks ready to go. Now need the book and the North Koreans and Chinese Volenteer's.
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I am hoping this is the start of Warlord's venture into modern warfare.
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I am hoping this is the start of Warlord's venture into modern warfare.
Whilst, on balance, it can’t be a bad thing having another player in the field, I’m not holding my breath. Much of their stuff is poorly researched and their resin vehicles are all over the shop quality wise, from fair/indifferent to just bloody awful. Their figures suffer the same faults, especially the metal ones.
You just know that they won’t be investing in plastic tooling anytime soon for such a niche market, which largely removes one of the few positive aspects they bring to the table. I’d also wager that they will stick to 1/56 for their vehicles, so they can maximise use of current items and differentiate themselves from the competition.
I’m happy enough that they are doing the Brits in tropical kit, it saves me work for some proxies but overall the rest of what they have shown is really uninspiring.
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I know it's personal preferences and all that jazz, but 1/56 scale vehicles just don't look right to me (cue the hate mail)
I am however hoping for an official Bolt Action Modern rule-set.
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The MASH unit looks ropey,
Is that Statler from the Muppet show on the top row?
I certainly agree with Carlos, but we shall see.
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Yeah the new close ups of the Mash unit, doesn't do them any favors. Still hopeing that they haven't @$#!ed up the Chinese and N. Koreans.
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On the subject of vehicle scale, I am not really bothered that they will(most probably) be 1/56. The main new item would be the Centurion, and that I hope would go well as an advanced version for Weird War, which builds on my existing WW2 1/56 collection.
Centurions for Vietnam I would expect to be a later model, and would want in 1/50 to go with my existing"moderns".
I know the chances of plastic NK or Chinese is slight, but I see a self fulfilling prophecy: no plastics as it is not popular, not popular because no plastics.
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Is that Statler from the Muppet show on the top row?
lol lol lol
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On the subject of vehicle scale, I am not really bothered that they will(most probably) be 1/56. The main new item would be the Centurion, and that I hope would go well as an advanced version for Weird War, which builds on my existing WW2 1/56 collection.
I have just ordered a 3D printed Centurion to see what the quality is like:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/e8cAAOSwm~1cThMm/s-l1600.jpg)
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Die Waffenkammer sell my Centurion... ;D
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Die Waffenkammer sell my Centurion... ;D
As the required Mk III.
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Die Waffenkammer sell my Centurion... ;D
++EDIT++
So apparently there is already an Australian Centurion available... Maybe I will have to go with 1/56?
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I do believe that Empress have been provided with all the necessary info to produce an accurate 1/50 Australian Centurion. ;)
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I do believe that Empress have been provided with all the necessary info to produce an accurate 1/50 Australian Centurion. ;)
Excellent news!
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I do believe that Empress have been provided with all the necessary info to produce an accurate 1/50 Australian Centurion. ;)
Man, I just back-flipped so hard I slipped a disk.
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Mine is 1/56 and has bits for Aussie version.
Including the extended fuel tank
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Mine is 1/56 and has bits for Aussie version.
Including the extended fuel tank
I'd order a stack of stuff ,however the recent reputation of Canadian mail,doesn't fill me with confidence :'(
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Man, I just back-flipped so hard I slipped a disk.
Whether they do one is entirely in their hands but with some judicious lobbying.....
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I'd order a stack of stuff ,however the recent reputation of Canadian mail,doesn't fill me with confidence :'(
There are UK and Aus shops if that helps.
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I've seen worse sculpts
(https://images.beastsofwar.com/2019/06/MASH-Unit-1024x1024.jpg)
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I guess? I've definitely seen better however.
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I'd order a stack of stuff ,however the recent reputation of Canadian mail,doesn't fill me with confidence :'(
Try here: https://www.trainshop.co.uk/238-die-waffenkammer (https://www.trainshop.co.uk/238-die-waffenkammer)
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I do believe that Empress have been provided with all the necessary info to produce an accurate 1/50 Australian Centurion. ;)
Whether they do one is entirely in their hands but with some judicious lobbying.....
If they can do it at a price similar to the rest of their own tank range.
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Having seen the new koreans up close on the website...I am immediatley struck by how awful looking the mauser pistols on the officer/tank crew are...they are worse than the one on the german officer sculpt from about 10 years ago.
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I am not fond of the sculpting of the pistol either, but to be fair it is not supposed to be a Mauser. I am pretty sure it is supposed to be a Type 14 Nambu pistol of Japanese origin, see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambu_pistol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambu_pistol)
What I wonder: Does anyone have a source for the BTR-40 actually being used in the Korean War? Apart from the Wikipedia article mentioning the BTR-40 saw combat there for the first time, but without giving the source of the statement, I can‘t find anything. Let alone any pictures. :-[
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I am not fond of the sculpting of the pistol either, but to be fair it is not supposed to be a Mauser. I am pretty sure it is supposed to be a Type 14 Nambu pistol of Japanese origin, see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambu_pistol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nambu_pistol)
What I wonder: Does anyone have a source for the BTR-40 actually being used in the Korean War? Apart from the Wikipedia article mentioning the BTR-40 saw combat there for the first time, but without giving the source of the statement, I can‘t find anything. Let alone any pictures. :-[
Highly unlikely. The North Koreans received hand me downs from the Soviets for the most part. At the time the Soviet Army was still struggling to mechanise its own forces. The Wiki page talks about Chinese Type 55 copies being supplied to North Korea. The clue there is in the ‘55’ bit. Most Chinese model designations refer to production year or service introduction. Hence the Type 56 rifle, the Type 63 carbine etc, etc. The Korean armistice came into effect in 1953. Maybe like Warlord’s it was a pre-order? ;)
Even were it the case that the Soviets did supply small numbers then, like you, I am unaware of any accounts of their combat use during the Korean War. You can, of course, use them for Vietnam or the even the Egyptian version of Vietnam, the Yemen in the early 1960s.
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Try here: https://www.trainshop.co.uk/238-die-waffenkammer (https://www.trainshop.co.uk/238-die-waffenkammer)
Cheers mate!
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Oh well, at least there's now a 1/56 BTR-40 on the way!
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The book "Armor in Korea: A pictorial History" mentions Ba-64, even one in US service, as a Jeep.
http://www.plasticwarfare.se/2012/09/korean-war-beute-ba-64-part-1/
Either the source is very rare or hard to find, or Warlord means to supply the player of the Korean army with transport vehicles or APCs besides the World War 2 range. I don't mind seeing as I can surely find a use for the BTR 40 model. :D
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The Koreans look alright except for the sks's that they armed them with which where not used in the war. Hopefully they will split them up into boxes by weapon otherwise it will take a lot of annoying conversions to make them look like svt-40's.
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Warlord Games are in a league of their own when it comes to research. It’s amazing how much can be gleaned from mildewed copies of Commando and Battle. ;)
On the positive side, less gurning faces and racist caricatures than one would have expected, based on past form. The peaked caps on the Chinese are most amusing. I often wonder if their sculpts are executed by a blind man based on snippets of conversation that he overheard on a bus.
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It's humorous to see some of the attitudes on this thread. Some people really hate Warlord yeah?
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It's humorous to see some of the attitudes on this thread. Some people really hate Warlord yeah?
lol That stems from their sculpts often having likenesses of figures from Osprey books. People take offense to that, or the obvious errors in some sculpts and such.
I like their plastics for conversions though.
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It's humorous to see some of the attitudes on this thread. Some people really hate Warlord yeah?
Not particularly, I just don't like silly mistakes like the SKS issue which should have been spotted and sorted in the design/research phase and its not just warlord just look at the the empress/tsuba Russo Japanese having bizarrely tiny arisakas.
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I don't think it's hate. It's poor research or no research on Warlord's part. With so much information available on the internet, it is just inexcusable. It is just wasted
potential.
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Oh well, at least there's now a 1/56 BTR-40 on the way!
From here: http://www.diewaffenkammer.com/soviet_union.html (http://www.diewaffenkammer.com/soviet_union.html)
From Rich H if I remember.
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Yep. I have a 1947 Soviet scout platoon mounted in BTR40s
I mastered the BTR and asked Jeff to cast me a few
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It's humorous to see some of the attitudes on this thread. Some people really hate Warlord yeah?
Hate? No that’s too strong a term and would suggest an emotional engagement, which simply isn’t there. Warlord are omnipresent and at times I buy their stuff occasionally. Mostly because it is available or is the only maker of a given item. Their plastics are a useful source of bits for the spares box. I even bought a copy of Wargames Illustrated, a notably poor publication, just for the free frame of bits. First time I’ve bought a wargaming magazine in 30 years.
What amuses and occasionally irks me is their laziness in terms of research. Their pricing is another cause of bewilderment. Exact same plastic vehicle, badged with Warlord is 1/3 the price again as the Italeri equivalent, who designed and produced the bloody thing in the first place.
To use a sporting metaphor, I hate Fluminense and I loathe Vasco’s fans, dull minded fuckers that they are. Botafogo are the team for people who have no real interest in football, hence the absence of fans in the stands. I don’t hate Botafogo, they amuse me and I find their fans mystifying but anyone who could muster the energy to actually hate something as inconsequential as that probably should seek attention. :D
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Not hate, just expect better from a company that size is all. I am very happy that the Korean war is finally getting a book published along with models. But the figs still suffer fro silly poseing and arming them with sks' s I a rookie mistake.
But I guess we are lucky they didn't arm them with AK47's.... So there is that. lol
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It's humorous to see some of the attitudes on this thread. Some people really hate Warlord yeah?
More serially disappointed.
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Maybe the rifles are SVTs?
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Maybe the rifles are SVTs?
If you look at them closely they have the folding bayonet which the svt did not have.
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Let's say the warlord Korea sculpts aren't completely accurate nite of the highest quality. They are creating a market, where one didn't previously exist. Once people are actually collecting and playing 28mm Korea, other manufacturers will come around with better models for more discerning tastes. Say what you will about warlord, but that situation would not likely have come about without their "bad" miniatures.
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Let's say the warlord Korea sculpts aren't completely accurate nite of the highest quality. They are creating a market, where one didn't previously exist. Once people are actually collecting and playing 28mm Korea, other manufacturers will come around with better models for more discerning tastes. Say what you will about warlord, but that situation would not likely have come about without their "bad" miniatures.
We know that, doesn't mean we can't pick appart their shoddy research. Becase some where down the line, they had a discussion about what models to release, and no one stoped the sks, being oked. And some one decided that those posses were decent enough to sale to the public.
I will pick them up becase I have been wanting to play Korean war in 28mm for years.
But I do see the figs as hold overs tell better sculpts come along. And honinstly they are better then the few attempts in the past to put out lines for this cold war engagement .
Also I figure with sks' s I can use them well into the 70's for things like the 66-69 dmz conflict or the axe murder incident in 1976. Makeing some lemonade out of this. lol
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Let's say the warlord Korea sculpts aren't completely accurate nite of the highest quality. They are creating a market, where one didn't previously exist. Once people are actually collecting and playing 28mm Korea, other manufacturers will come around with better models for more discerning tastes. Say what you will about warlord, but that situation would not likely have come about without their "bad" miniatures.
The problem is that there are other periods being introduced (Vietnam being the obvious example) with well sculpted, accurate figures. That is what drives new interests.
The problem is that poor sales due to poor models might make other manufacturers shy away from venturing into the period.
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In answer to the earlier questions about a Centurion.
Yes we will be doing one. ;)
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Vietnam in 28mm has been possible to do for years with good quality figures and vehicles. Korea hasn't been. A miniatures range, while possibly not of the highest standards, with a wargame book and a pack of MASH characters, will make the period possible to do. It's not like anyone else was doing Korea and I've been seeing posts with folks seeking to do that conflict in 28mm for years.
I used to spend 2 hours on each mini. Every figure was a work of art in its own right and was an accurate representation of the time an place it was from. Now I have a kid. Warlord has Korea figs? Cool, gonna slap some GW contrast paints on those and get something on the table before the wife wants me to watch the baby.
It's be nice if the Perrys were doing this but that the period is possible to do at all in 28mm now is still a good thing.
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In answer to the earlier questions about a Centurion.
Yes we will be doing one. ;)
But in 1/50 scale?
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But in 1/50 scale?
1/50 would be perfect
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Amusingly enough wikipedia also lists the SKS as a weapon employed in the Korean War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_equipment_used_in_the_Korean_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS
;D
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Amusingly enough wikipedia also lists the SKS as a weapon employed in the Korean War.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_equipment_used_in_the_Korean_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKS
;D
From the Wikipedia article on the SKS:
Korean War: limited issue[22]
22. Rottman, Gordon L. (December 2002). Korean War Order of Battle: United States, United Nations, and Communist Ground, Naval, and Air Forces, 1950-1953. Praeger. p. 198. ISBN 978-0-275-97835-8. Archived from the original on 2018-12-09. Retrieved 2018-12-07.
(My emphasis).
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From the Wikipedia article on the SKS:
Korean War: limited issue[22]
22. Rottman, Gordon L. (December 2002). Korean War Order of Battle: United States, United Nations, and Communist Ground, Naval, and Air Forces, 1950-1953. Praeger. p. 198. ISBN 978-0-275-97835-8. Archived from the original on 2018-12-09. Retrieved 2018-12-07.
(My emphasis).
Interesting, even surprising, given that the wide consensus is that it didn't see any service in the Korean War, the questionable statements of David Hackworth aside (a man well known for spicing his tales). Odd given that as a fairly recent bit of kit, you would have expected it to have been trumpeted for propaganda purposes by the UN forces and almost certainly featured in training bulletins on enemy weapons.
Doubly so, given that there seems not to be a single, dated and documented photo of one being used in said conflict. Plenty of photos of captured weapons for the period in question and yet no SKS.
Triply surprising, given the GI's penchant for bringing home trophy weapons and yet it seems there's no extant examples that can be traced to Korea.
Who knows? Maybe there were SKS carbines used there but if they were it would appear to have been in minute quantities with such a negligible impact that nobody has remarked upon it. Here's the point though. For a representative model of Korean People's Army troops for the Korean War it's a fucking odd choice. It would be like arming a quarter of your Vietcong with Mp-44s or MG-34s, although the difference here is that both have well documented and reliably dated photographic evidence of their, albeit minor, use by the Communist forces in Vietnam. I suspect that Warlord probably looked at the First Corps 28mm Korean range, saw the SKS and went "Right we better have one of those!" .
For what it's worth I doubt Voldemort Games Korean War will poison the well for any other Korean ranges. I say this because I think it most unlikely that there will be any more ranges. Modern warfare is a niche topic to start with. Korea is problematic for a variety of reasons. In the popular mind* it's WW1 with WW2 weapons and to be honest for most of the war that's not far off the truth. Just look how popular post 1914 Great War ranges in 28mm have been. 28mm is probably not teh best scale to stage Chinese, human wave style attacks, the other popular trope of Korea, unless you have a bloody large budget. If anything it's probably a war better suited to bigger scale representations and smaller scale figures but horses for courses.
For manufacturers most of the shiny toys can be gleaned from existing WW2 ranges. . In fact if I was going to do Korea I'd probably use Empress' GI s and appropriately modified late war Brits. Even the Chinese can be made from various WW2 ranges with a little effort, at least the winter clad ones. Unlike Vietnam, there's really not a lot that's new or needed and after the retreat from the Yalu and the move to positional warfare, not much call for tanks and other AFVs.
As for Vietnam and existing ranges, I suspect you will find that the surge in popularity of the conflict this year is almost wholly down to the quality of the figures and the research that's gone into them. If people were satisfied with existing ranges, then I doubt there would have been the market.
* Given that there is any popular consciousness of Korea beyond MASH.
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@Carlos, I have not read the source (and have read little about Korea in general - Campaign 328 being my only book on the period).
As you say, limited issue could mean many things, what it probably does not mean is issued to line infantry.
I would have hoped that when Warlord did their research, they had actually read the reference material (there is the suspicion that they got as far as the SKS entry in the Wikipedia article).
As for Vietnam and existing ranges, I suspect you will find that the surge in popularity of the conflict this year is almost wholly down to the quality of the figures and the research that's gone into them. If people were satisfied with existing ranges, then I doubt there would have been the market.
I wholeheartedly agree, Vietnam was not a period that interested me (Campaign 4 being the only book I had read).
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CriticalResearchFailure (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CriticalResearchFailure)
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I suspect that Warlord probably looked at the First Corps 28mm Korean range, saw the SKS and went "Right we better have one of those!" .
I reckon they looked at the old Men at Arms No.174: The Korean War 1950 to 1953. Plate A shows a KPA soldier aiming with an SKS. As is common, Warlord does look to Osprey for poses/weapons/faces on their models, as was evident with their old German metals and a few other lines.
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But in 1/50 scale?
of course.
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Some astonishing spoilt moaning in here from the button counters.
They are toy soldiers.
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To be fair it's not button counting it's rifle ID that's the problem ;)
I find it dissapointing when something which has clearly had so much effort put into producing it is wrong when it could so easily have been right.
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Toy solders you say? I will just play with these meeples over here then. already painted and I can play any era or rule set. Fantasy, historical, sci-fi done. lol
But really, I Will wait tell I see them in person before I spend my limited funds or time on them. Already got the book on order so there is that.
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There are memoirs from Veterans and museum exhibits that say the SKS was there. While one can point to research that shows SKSs probably weren't there or were at the very least exceedingly rare, the existence of authoritative sources stating the opposite means we can give warlord the benefit of the doubt. They didn't make a mistake, they simply followed an interpretation of the historical record at variance with yours.
Look, they made a product range for an underserved market and, before the stuff is even on store shelves it's being bashed for an error that any gamer can fix with a nail file. It's easy to criticize others' work, it's not nearly so easy to produce and create a product line. I understand the importance of accuracy, but let's put it into context and see the whole range (including the book) before getting on their case over a debatable error.
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And as I said, if that fails. I am sure they will work fine for the 60's Dmz border conflict.
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It's humorous to see some of the attitudes on this thread. Some people really hate Warlord yeah?
I usually just look at the pics. skip the convo and post whatever I feel at the end regardless of whats said beforehand.
Too much tosh lol
on this I can't say much.
looks cool but I know little about the Korean war.
like the tank though. not mind painting one up.
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Some astonishing spoilt moaning in here from the button counters.
They are toy soldiers.
Yes sweety, they are, I think all (most?) of us get that * and whether we choose to purchase them or not comes down personal preference. It’s that whole consumer thingy. I’m not seeking to dictate what you or others choose to buy, in fact I don’t especially care, I don’t know you and naturally enough, horses for courses.
The ad hominem attack doesn’t exactly warm you to me. It’s been a relatively civilised discussion to date.
* Whether it comes as a revelation to you is something I won’t opine upon. ;)
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Unsubstantiated or ad hominem attacks detract from almost any conversation.
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I guess? I've definitely seen better however.
I appreciate that the Warlord MASH figures at least pass the crucial muster of "recognizable likenesses", which is a surprisingly high bar even for really good sculptors. The bodies could certainly use work, but I was able to readily identify every single figure, so credit to the sculptor there.
Also, I certainly approve of the choice for Hawkeye's, erm, uniform.
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Is it just me or could the movie "71: Into the Fire" be Warlords main source of information about the North Koreans?
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/71:_Into_the_Fire
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Is it just me or could the movie "71: Into the Fire" be Warlords main source of information about the North Koreans?
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/71:_Into_the_Fire
Most likely from the bearded nork officer (pretty decent likeness tbh) if only they had also watched the front line and brotherhood (no sks's lol)
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I would say though , that it's unlikely Vietnam by Warlord would see the light of day, as we have two outstanding manufacturers at least already.
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Is it just me or could the movie "71: Into the Fire" be Warlords main source of information about the North Koreans?
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/71:_Into_the_Fire
I think you might be on to something there. That’s assuming that there wasn’t a Korean War edition of The Beano that was drawn upon for inspiration. :D
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Given that warlord does pop culture miniatures (Rorke's Drift characters, Kelly's Heroes, M*A*S*H), could the SKSs be there because they are in popular representations of the conflict?
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Actually, I think you are right there. The intended market for Warlord is a mass market not ‘button and rivet counters’ like me. Leveraging popular culture is an obvious marketing ploy.
That said, it’s entirely possible to do so without compromising the integrity of the range. Look at Empress’ Hollywood packs for their Zulu and Vietnam War ranges. Likewise the deliberate Airfix tribute poses in Eureka’s WW2 Australian range.
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Actually, I think you are right there. The intended market for Warlord is a mass market not ‘button and rivet counters’ like me. Leveraging popular culture is an obvious marketing ploy.
That said, it’s entirely possible to do so without compromising the integrity of the range. Look at Empress’ Hollywood packs for their Zulu and Vietnam War ranges. Likewise the deliberate Airfix tribute poses in Eureka’s WW2 Australian range.
Which were also in Warlord's recent Afrika Korps kit. I.e. the grenade lobbing Korps member and such.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think there are maybe 3-4 figures with SKS in the NK army box. Is that really compromising the integrity of the range? Think of how many details they had to work on to make those figures and write that book. Is some margin of error allowable?
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I would agree if it wasn't for their track record on poorly researched figures and kits They've dropped the ball on right across the board. They've even screwed up a zombie range.
I won't comment on sculpting simply as its unfair too . I'm more aware than most of the constraints and pressures of pushing clay .
There's simply no excuse for poor research in the 21st century .Back in the days when you physically had to get off your backside and leave the house to even begin to research a topic.May be. But in world where information can be gleamed on you phone whislt waiting for a coffee!
This isn't a case of buttons but of respect. This is a conflict in living memory.
You wouldn't stand in front of a thirty year old veteran of Afghanistan and tell him you busy representing his life and you couldn't be bothered to research coz they're only toy soldiers and it doesn't really matter .(I'd happily put money on it not going well for you.)
Or my be its just easier to take this approach because these veterans are in their eighties.
I personally won't go near modern games at shows or clubs .
Simply because those litlle 28mm bits of tin are me and my friends. Unlike those bits of tin my friends didn't go into boxes at the end of the day ready for next weekend.They just went into boxes.
So to me and many others it does matter. This hobby is a wonderful piece of nonsense that fills the days.Which I'll happily defend your right to indulge in.
When your playing historical games your skirmishing with the trauma of past lives.and when you become dismissive and indifferent to this uncomfortable truth. It doesn't hurt to be reminded that we are not all Past.
So roll dice ,laugh ,play and enjoy the whole thing.
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Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think there are maybe 3-4 figures with SKS in the NK army box. Is that really compromising the integrity of the range? Think of how many details they had to work on to make those figures and write that book. Is some margin of error allowable?
Its 8-9 out of 47 which is quite a percentage. We can only hope they will be divided up by weaponry in retail which would work out for people who want wartime norks and people who want post war ones.
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Its 8-9 out of 47 which is quite a percentage. We can only hope they will be divided up by weaponry in retail which would work out for people who want wartime norks and people who want post war ones.
Judging by their previous releases, they probably won’t. They’ll no doubt be lumped into their standard 10 figures ‘squad packs’ which with few exceptions rarely match actual squads.
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Judging by their previous releases, they probably won’t. They’ll no doubt be lumped into their standard 10 figures ‘squad packs’ which with few exceptions rarely match actual squads.
That will most likely be the case unfortunately :(
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Excuse me for reiterating a point, but there are authoritative sources (Veteran memiors and museums) which state the SKS was there. Given that evidence, the inclusion of the rifle can be argued, but cannot be stated to be categorically innacurate. This means that Warlord is not disrespecting the memory of Veterans (there's at least one Veteran who left written testimony supporting them) nor are they compromising the integrity of the range.
As I've started by making a case against the greivous sin of disrespecting Veterans, I can move on to the lesser sin of disrespecting content creators. There's a team of people who worked hard to make a book and models that we can enjoy (or choose not to). Slandering those folks with the charge of disrespecting Veterans and compromising their integrity over a point to which they can defend themselves with authoritative sources is just plain mean.
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Going to have to stop you there. One dude most likely mistaken a SVT or other soviet, or german world war 2 era simi-auto for an SKS. )Hell might have even been an M1, young Lt's are know to embellish stories.) Also China didn't start fielding them tell 1956 and the NRK's didn't start manufacturing them tell 63.
I have spoken to many vets who despite seeing combat, can not tell their ass from their elbow when it comes to identifying firearms. And Hackworth is the only one I ever read who said he saw one.
Also until some one can produce a photo, and documentation showing it being used, issued, captured. I am going to say that its a no show for this war. (I have seen a few photos from a Korean military museum, but those where captured in Vietnam while ROK forces served there)
Hell I have read books with folks saying that they saw Viet-mien with AK47s and SKS's in 1948. lol
I respect the Authors and I am looking forward to seeing their product. But humans are not perfect. And I will toss this up there one of those Boo Boo's. lol
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A book written by a participant in the events described is what's known as a primary source. It is, in and of itself, evidence and can be cited in doctoral dissertations on the subject. Given the existence of such evidence, you can argue with Warlord's conclusions but cannot state that they did not do research.
As the charges in this thread against Warlord, namely that they are disrespectful of Veterans and have compromised their integrity, rest on the underlying assumption that they did not do research, those charges cannot be sustained in this case.
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If I am accused of saying they didn't do their research. Then I am guilty. And don't try to lord the word of vets over me. Every adult in my famly including myself are vets. We are not saint's and if you ever want to meet some of the best liers in your life, I'll take you to my local VFW.
Stories change, or are miss remembered especially 40 plus years on.
Hell things that were held as the Lord's truth since the end of world war two or even the Vietnam are being found to be fabricated or embleshments.
The SKS has no documented and confirmed use in the Korean conflict. Unless you count MASH they used it a few times in that show. lol
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I'm not lording anyone's word over anyone else. Nor am I endorsing the veracity of Mr. Hackworth's statements. What I am doing is applying the rules of evidence used in academia to this issue. I'm not doing it to say that there were or were not SKSs in Korea but to say that someone could have done rigorous research and concluded that there were. You can disagree with Warlord's conclusions but you can't use those conclusions to argue that they were disrespectful to Veterans or lack integrity because they have authoritative evidence to the contrary.
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Why do you keep harping on about respect to veterans? Your the only one who keeps bringing them up o_o o_o
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Because an earlier poster stated that Warlord's inclusion of SKSs was disrespectful to them. That is a very serious charge and deserves to be responded to.
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Chaps, I am thoroughly weirded out by the turn this thread is taking.
I'm demilitarizing this discussion zone for a bit for everyone to calm down, especially since it isn't going forward from the entrenched positions.