Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Poiter50 on June 06, 2019, 06:00:06 AM
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the 2nd Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders were one of the few well trained units in Malaya when the Japanese attacked with unexpected seaborne landings. They had managed to obtain some Lanchester armoured cars and kept them on strength through the CO's nefarious dealings. My question is "What markings did these vehicles carry for that campaign?", hope someone can help?
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There are photographs of an A&SH Lanchester here:
https://laststandonzombieisland.com/tag/lanchester-6x4-mark-i/ (https://laststandonzombieisland.com/tag/lanchester-6x4-mark-i/)
The pics seem to show very few markings, and in line with the Lanchester at Bovvy:
(https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5406c773e4b087d8052ef58b/t/542ec50fe4b03ebd6a751400/1412351251441/?format=1500w)
So number plate on the front, a very small flash below the turret, that's all.
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Thanks, that makes it easy to set up. No Tac signs apparent, just the number plate and some small numbers which don't matter a lot.
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That Bovvy vehicle appears to be in the markings of 12 Lancers who operated them in Egypt or East Africa. The Malaya ones were part of the various volunteer forces AFAIK. The marking under the turret appears to be 12L underlined and F under that. Can't see the rest of the marking although this is from the Military Factory site.
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Some useful information and photos here: https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/theovervalwagenforum/lanchester-6x4-armoured-car-and-vickers-lmg-in-mal-t2090.html
(http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/photo/gb/ac_lanchester_mk2/ac_lanchester_mk2_4.jpg)
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02270/Argylls_and_Suther_2270250b.jpg)
(http://ww2today.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Argylls-in-Malaya-1942.jpg)
Photos taken just prewar IIRC. Numberplates front and back, names (on some) " Blair Castle", which probably relates to it's 'ownership' by 2ASH. Possibly 2 tone camouflage, rather than plain green. Is that a Tac sign (B) on the L front mudguard, or the Bridge Classification plate ("8")? http://www.warwheels.net/images/ACJFinal10.pdf
(http://i.imgur.com/hubKV8G.jpg)
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That is excellent, also confirms the presence of the Marmon Herringtons with 2ASH. The marking info is great and changes my mind on what or how I will finish mine.
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Interested to see the long trousers - I was thinking of using the Perry Desert Rats set with a few remodelled pieces of headgear, but I may have to rethink that.
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Great info on the Lanchester's and other vehicles
Have been reading a bit about the Hong Kong campaign and I think it would make a great PSC - and now I want armoured cars made from ships armour!
Pete you need one of these too
(http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/pojazdy/tk/cardenloyd_mkvi_02.jpg)
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2ASH didn't use that! Some leaders recognised the futility of some designs.
The Hong Kong campaign is yet another rabbit hole.
Great info on the Lanchester's and other vehicles
Have been reading a bit about the Hong Kong campaign and I think it would make a great PSC - and now I want armoured cars made from ships armour!
Pete you need one of these too
(http://www.1939.pl/uzbrojenie/polskie/pojazdy/tk/cardenloyd_mkvi_02.jpg)
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Indeed
Have some great info on HK and its a very limited campaign with some great cinematic moments esp round Stanley.
http://www.battleofhongkong.com/ToC.htm
and Ch X here (on kindle for 99p)
Kirby, Woodburn. The War Against Japan. Volume I The Loss of Singapore (HMSO - Official HIstory of WWII - Military) . HMS0 - 232 Celsius. Kindle Edition.
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Common theme - sacrificial Colonials?
Indeed
Have some great info on HK and its a very limited campaign with some great cinematic moments esp round Stanley.
http://www.battleofhongkong.com/ToC.htm
and Ch X here (on kindle for 99p)
Kirby, Woodburn. The War Against Japan. Volume I The Loss of Singapore (HMSO - Official HIstory of WWII - Military) . HMS0 - 232 Celsius. Kindle Edition.
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Interested to see the long trousers - I was thinking of using the Perry Desert Rats set with a few remodelled pieces of headgear, but I may have to rethink that.
They alternated between long trousers and shorts as you can see in the bottommost photo of the training march down the Peninsula. I use Desert Rats with swapped out helmets for mine. Perry sells the latter too.
As for the Lanchesters one of their distinguishing features was that each one was named after a Scottish castle as mentioned in that Tapatalk link earlier.
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...
As for the Lanchesters one of their distinguishing features was that each one was named after a Scottish castle as mentioned in that Tapatalk link earlier.
That applies to the 2ASH cars only of course. From the same link: Stirling Castle, Dumbarton Castle, Glamis Castle, Inverness Castle and Blair Castle (W465). I can't line up the other numbers with names but W468 was another car number. "Blair Castle seems to have been the car never returned to the Battalion and so presumably fought with 3 Indian Cavalry Regt." [during the campaign]
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Thankyou chaps, and as another dreadful inhabitant of this board, sold me a Far Eastern hut, and I have a 1st Corps squad of USMC already in the lead pile, I can foresee some AASH and Japanese in my future.
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lol lol lol
Thankyou chaps, and as another dreadful inhabitant of this board, sold me a Far Eastern hut, and I have a 1st Corps squad of USMC already in the lead pile, I can foresee some AASH and Japanese in my future.
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Great info on the Lanchester's and other vehicles
Have been reading a bit about the Hong Kong campaign and I think it would make a great PSC - and now I want armoured cars made from ships armour!]
It’s always interested me, not least because I was born and grew up there (one of many expat kids whose parents ran the colony).. For four years in the late 60s and early 70s we lived very close to the Gin Drinkers Line. As kids my friends and I used to roam those hills and the reservoirs, often playing ‘war’. We stumbled across several overgrown entrenchments and emplacements and would find things like spent cartridges from time to time. One rock became well known to use because it had a few bullet rounds embedded in it, so deep we couldn’t prise them out. We’d often fantasise about how we might stumble on an abandoned machine gun position replete with abandoned weapons and equipment (never happened of course). During one dry season when the reservoir was low we retrieved the tail fins of a mortar round from the mud which caused great consternation amongst the parents when one of my friends brought it home.
We attempted to play the campaign using the ordnance survey map of HK and the WRG rules. We had nowhere near enough buildings and I recall we made up the city on some very patient parents’ living room floor using their Penguin paperbacks to make out the city plan. Golden days!
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Ah well if it ever gets to development stage I will flick you a copy for feedback lol
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I had a Lanchester in action playing Chain of Command at Operation Market Larden this weekend just gone.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5406c773e4b087d8052ef58b/1560091563439-L2XNEZGSL4JFM87686EC/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kAJATVnS5PCeX_b2OLUBwA17gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTmQyViSO8WVy1F2YAzXWvEVKaEouEZuWq27Xsx5PUz5yqSdS0j3oQ8X4fOAMddjhue/image-asset.jpeg?format=1500w)
Here's a link to the full report:
https://www.vislardica.com/blog/2019/6/9/aar-oml7-game-1-chain-of-command-in-malaya (https://www.vislardica.com/blog/2019/6/9/aar-oml7-game-1-chain-of-command-in-malaya)
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Recently an HK publisher had a good game on the campaign out. The title is Glory Recalled. I do not have it, I am trying to keep acquisition under control sadly, but people says it is good.
BGG link> https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/228686/glory-recalled-hong-kong-1941 (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/228686/glory-recalled-hong-kong-1941)
A couple of years ago me and a HK historian, Dr. Kwong Chi Man, had talked about doing a design, then it fell in the back burner... but check Tiny Battle Publishing Lion of Malaya... (self advertisement!).
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Thanks for the links Arrigo, very interesting
Oh and apologies to Pete for hijacking his thread :-*
Back on topic how do you calculate the fire from the Lanchester's turret MG's in CoC?
Do you have to roll separately 6 HMG and 2 MMG dice?
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VisBellica used one at OML7, so perhaps he needs to step up with an answer?
This has been a most intriguing query, I followed the Tapatalk link which went down all sorts of rabbit holes, some very intriguing including some pics of US water cooled .50 cal AA guns in the Pacific theatre. You will remember I was chasing info on these for Chindits some time back. The Tapatalk talk discussion was undertaken by just a fe posters but over some years, so very interesting.
Part of the intrigue involves the actual turret armament of a .50 cal and an MMG. A friend asked the question as to the AT capability of the .50 cal although the AT ammo for that was limited from what I have read. I believe the British .50 cal was inferior to the US .50 cal.
Bit OTT, I just got my Malaya book in the post. It is the Australian one put out by AWM, I think, looks interesting. Mind you also got Vol 2 of Black Berets, South African Armoured Forces history written by a Saffer. Vol 1 was excellent with lots of info on Marmon Herrington ACs.
Thanks for the links Arrigo, very interesting
Oh and apologies to Pete for hijacking his thread :-*
Back on topic how do you calculate the fire from the Lanchester's turret MG's in CoC?
Do you have to roll separately 6 HMG and 2 MMG dice?
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I had a Lanchester in action playing Chain of Command at Operation Market Larden this weekend just gone.
Here's a link to the full report:
https://www.vislardica.com/blog/2019/6/9/aar-oml7-game-1-chain-of-command-in-malaya (https://www.vislardica.com/blog/2019/6/9/aar-oml7-game-1-chain-of-command-in-malaya)
Great stuff.
check Tiny Battle Publishing Lion of Malaya... (self advertisement!).
My group in Malaysia recently played this. We found it gave a very exciting and realistic historical game.
We have on and off again plans to run the Malaya campaign possibly combining Lion of Malaya and CoC.
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My group in Malaysia recently played this. We found it gave a very exciting and realistic historical game.
o_o
thanks! It was a little design and quite nice to do. Not so sure of an hybrid game with CoC. But certainly you can track down a particular brigade/regiment and then play CoC engagements with a platoon as a secondary form of narrative (but there are the excellent campaigns provided for CoC and IASBM that probably does better). Certainly I can design a game on some specific engagement, slim river is a possible candidate due to the fact that the japanese force attacked each CW battalion in turn. Certainly I would like to do a game where I can have Lanchesters armoured cars directly on the map. I think they have never been explicitly represented in any game except miniature ones.