Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: valerio81 on June 11, 2019, 11:16:26 AM
-
So, I am now raising my very own fleet of triremes (and, in perspective, bigger galleys).
I wanted to play ancient naval 1 to 1, with the great Greek fire and roman fury fleet rules by david manley. I found1/1200s too large for that. I started mounting Navwar's liburne on bases and pretende they were triremes (not good for my obsessive personality). I evaluated Outpost 1/3600s (too small).
Then I said - let's sculpt them myself and then go to a professional moulder to print them in inordinate numbers and spend lots of money for no proper reason whatsoever.
So there it is, attached, my very first sculpt ever. I used super sculpey. I am pretty satisfied because I think you can tell it's a decked trireme. It's around 1/2400, so 2cm more or less. Any constructive criticism please?
I plan to do 2 other trireme, just for variety, and then maybe a merchant or 2, and then have all of them moulded. If all of that works fine, I will move on on the tech scale and do some 4s and 5s for the punic wars.
-
Very nice, but Tumbling Dice do ancient ships in 1:2400 if you want to save yourself some work.
-
Many thanks steve but, now the original idea has taken a life of its own, the original goal dismissed..
-
It looks good :)
There was a thread on here where the OP was building triremes from plasticard parts - man I wish I could find it again to link to!
-
Thats a very nice cute little trireme there. You can use a fine brush and odourless thinner to smooth out or straighten out small details. I bet that they look much much better in reality. Photos can capture details that human eye would never be able to see
-
Many thanks! And yes indeed I need to clean them out. This is my first sculpting endeavour and I've got everything to learn, so more than happy for all suggestions like this one!
The second unit is also now ready. Also a trireme but you can see it's a different design. I spoke with an expert and he told me it's not worth to mould just 2-4 ships, so it seems a full line needs to be sculpted. I guess I am going to down 4 each of triremes, pentekonters, quads and fives, plus 2 transport. But I am ready to change my mind if needed!
-
Well I feel for you Im also trying my hand at sculpting and its a learning process one sculpt at a time. I would recommend beesputty clay. You need to bake it like Fimo and Sculpey but it has a great property. It can be very firm when left alone but if you work it, just with the warmth of your hands it becomes soft like wax and that makes blending and adding of little details very easy.
And since you are making triremes allow me to provide some inspiration. I was walking around the other day on the mountain that is behind my house and took this picture.
(https://i.postimg.cc/4KxMn9Yb/keratsini.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/4KxMn9Yb)
On the far left side you can barely see the edges of the city of Athens. As we are looking to the right you can see Piraeus and the sea all the way to Faliron (the place where the Persians attempted their second landing after the battle of Marathon, but was prevented by the hoplites who run all the way there after the main battle. Towards the middle is a small bay and there starts the streights of Salamis. The little island is Psyttaleia, Aristeides lead a small garisson of hoplites that took care of the Persians who landed there and the remnants of the survivors from the battle of Salamis. The mountain peak on the right side of the port cranes, is the place where Xerxes placed his throne and directed his forces from. When we were kids we used to climb there all the time searching for traces lol. The actual island of Salamis is just behind those mountain ridges on the right. Once upon a time that place was full of triremes and everyhing was on the balance.
-
Many thanks captain! I now would like to go back to greece..
-
Third try. I now realize I was a fool for thinking I could have good results from the beginning.. these are actually prototypes as I find my hand.
I decided I want to go smaller, real 1/2400, Salamina 1 to 1 style. This third unit is definitely the right size. However, it looks like a maggot! A super deformed triere. The mistake was in calculating hull lenght without thinking that the stern would be elonged and curved above the deck, to do the curl. I'm building up some serious shipbuilding know-how here..
-
Your ships look good. Athenian and most other triremes triremes were 40m long by 6m wide. I don't know if it possible with the material you are using, but the oars should be shorter and maybe a bit thinner. Here is a link to videos of the Olympias. The sea trials one is very interesting. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trireme+olympias (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=trireme+olympias)
-
I am starting to slowly getting somewhere.. after several other prototypes I have now a fixed measure to use (a mm more or less). The size is right! these latest units are around 1,2 cm, you can see the difference with the very first model that I am keeping for reference.
I still have to learn to smooth them, and I am still not happy with the tail, oars are still too long. But they look better in the flesh, and I am happy with the progresses I feel am making. I think in another 12 or so tries I should be fine!
-
Getting there.. these models looks so much worse in photo, but I am happy to say this is very close to where I want to go. Looking at it from gaming distance, you think "oh, a trireme". Still not able to add the epotis, tought..
Can anybody suggest something to smooth super sculpey after cooking and sanding? Captain Harlock mentioned a thinner, what it is exactly?
-
Can anybody suggest something to smooth super sculpey after cooking and sanding? Captain Harlock mentioned a thinner, what it is exactly?
Perhaps he meant just regular paint thinner or, possibly, something stronger like lacquer thinner or straight toluene.
-
And now, for something completely different, a trireme which does not remind one of a moving centipede. We're getting closer.. can you see the epotis? Still need to understand the smoothing and thinning thing however
-
And finally, there it is!! This is where I wanted to go. Less than 2 cm. Still margins to do better, obviously, however this is something I'd tolerate on the gaming table. What do you think?
Trick was to sculpt and cook the covering deck first, so I can make it nicely squared. Epotis is definitely where I can do better, but I am very happy!
-
That is certainly the best one yet.
I think you should try making the deck section from textured plastic card and then add the curved putty sections to it.
If you make the deck as a " T " with a strip of plain plastic acting as a keel you will be able to keep everything the same width and height.
-
Many thanks Rob for the great idea! I am now using a "tool" to measure up and obtaining same lenght (more or less).
This in the picture is what I aim as final product. The base will be integral to the ships, as Irregular minis does.
-
Looking good, and a nice suggestion Rob.
-
Long time no post! I am very happy to post the very first complete prototype. This is how it should look like. I am now able to sculpt 3 ships in a single session, all reasonably decent and coherent in size and style: therefore I tought it was time to start putting it all together.
It was more difficult than I tought, of course, and naturally new issues came out - the base warped during cooking, just to mention one..why?!? Super sculpey is not meant to.. anyway.
Very happy about the sea, looks moving and not-billiard-table-like, but not too agitated (they wouldn't sail in it, would they?). On the other hand, I haven't figured out how to sculpt the ships' foam trail yet. I also decided to combat my obsessive complusion and cancel the epotis. It's too small!! Hope no one (else) notices or cares.
Happy for your comments!
-
Nice - what's the dimension of the base? And the epotis isn't missed - though you could cut a triangle of plasticard, etc.
-
The base is 7x4cm. I cannot use plasticard, as the final prototype will be moulded and cast in metal...
-
So long again, but at least this time I spent it practising. I also got brand new tools - I was working with only one carving tool really, which was really limiting. Buying myself a set of tools opened new possibilities and made things that I was not able to do really easy. So if you are starting sculpting - get yourself a basic set of silicone brushes!
While getting better, the design is still not there, however. There is still something not right. I think it's not enough sleek and slim and sharp maybe. It's a chubby trireme. But, this time at least the epotis is well done!
I am thinking maybe to change style and forget about being realistic and scultping epotis, planking etc.. maybe I should adopt an "impressionist" approach, much like 2mm Irregular minis blocks. This would also allow me to do even smaller ships than this 2 cm trireme ???
-
New lesson learned: it's easy to get trapped into a pattern of making the same mistakes, so it's a good idea to step aside for a while and then start again from scratch. This is how I came up with a new tecnique that allowed me to reach a much better design. This is good enough I think!
In the photo you see it with some 1/1200 scale liburnians from Navwar, just to give you an idea of dimensions
-
Your last sculpt is the best, really clean lines. Beautiful. Did you plan to add mast and sail too?
Making them without included bases is better imho, as it let more basing choice - from small diorama to boring informative bases.
Following this post with attention. :-*
Best regards
-
Many thanks! Maybe later I will do some with sails. But first I need to consolidate the design, do a couple more triremes and I also would like to do some eastern mediterranean ships, maybe taller with shields on the side. That would be the King's ships... and I think I need a couple of freighters, too.
Yes in the end I am going with the no-base design, more flexible
-
This is such a great thread. Just wonderful seeing you put so much of yourself into this project rather than just shelling out money for figs. At this scale they look great - a little paint and some big scary eyes on the front, and they'll look even better.
-
Many many thanks Warren for the kind words. I have still a long way to go but I start to see some encouraging results which helps to motivate!
-
I think I have got another good one.. this time they're rowing fast!
I also made a blog. Figured I liked to have it as a motivator, too...
https://alkedominis.wixsite.com/blog (https://alkedominis.wixsite.com/blog)
-
My latest sculpt is pretty ugly.. but I am testing a different way to sculpt the oarage, which has a different feel from the previous... and I don't know which one to go for! What do you say?
For more details see my blog at https://alkedominis.wixsite.com/blog/post/an-experiment-is-never-a-fail
-
Finally, I have a n. 3! Its prow is quite different from the first 2. Maybe these with longer rams can be "eastern" ships (phoenicians and egyptians?) while n.3 and the future n. 4 will be the greeks?
https://alkedominis.wixsite.com/blog/post/n-3-commissioned-finally
-
And I also have a cargo ship now! Albeit a very small one! And also a fb page. It's getting out of hand...
https://www.facebook.com/Alkedo-575574606447852/
-
lol i love it when it gets out if hand
-
Forth and final trireme ready!
Now just another cargo and then I'll mould in metal. For more photos:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=641370939868218&id=575574606447852
-
Are you going to mold them yourself?
-
No, I am leaving it to a professional moulder. I'd probably do some 15 copies each, but I have no idea of the price yet
-
No, I am leaving it to a professional moulder. I'd probably do some 15 copies each, but I have no idea of the price yet
Can they do so few pieces?
-
Not really, but theres another guy in my wargame club who moulds his own stuff, so I am basically piggybacking! But then, a couple other guys in the club just showed interest, so I may "increase the production" if there is demand. No profit, of course, just for the sake of it.
-
Yesterday I provided the master to my friend, who is going to have them moulded along with his own stuff in a couple of weeks!! I am so happy. If these tests looks good, I will then print a whole bunch of the little ships and finally have them on the table soon!!! I cannot believe it. I expect the tests to reveal some egregious sculpting mistake that I did not notice...
Anyway, I also added an akatos to the fleet. We needed a larger cargo of course.. So the line so far is 4 war aglleys, trireme, and 2 freighters. Enough for a respectable Greek internecine war.
Please find other pictures here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=646974325974546&id=575574606447852
-
Finally, I got the first test prints!! Very very happy. Here in the picture you see the 4 triremes attacking a Navwar 1/1200, just for size. More pictures here https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=670696606935651&id=575574606447852
-
Brilliant, love projects like this! Have you considered casting in resin? I've used do-it-yourself, 2-part silicone mold making to cast resin ships and while they're lightweight, they came out great. This was just a fun project for myself, to see if I could do it.
The rear of some of your triremes have this overhang "hook" which would catch your mold and might make it hard to get the models out, but if you re-sculpt those as less of a hook, and more of an upward-facing point, I bet you could cast a ton of these yourself quite easily.
But if you're all about metal, that's of course a whole 'nuther kettle of fish!
-
Many thanks pancake! Yes I did consider casting by myself, I normally use blu stuff for moulding and resin powder for casts, and it actually works fine for these models. But, I overall prefer metal and I am in contact with a professional moulder through a friend.
Plus, I already had such "fun" in sculpting these that I really do not look forward to casting them as well! Really, it is very rewarding but, at times, so very much frustrating...
-
Dear all, finally, after more than one year and a half, the Alkedo ships are finally at sea! I prepared the first full squadron of 14 triremes - here they are, practicing diekplous defence.
More pictures in my blog here https://alkedominis.wixsite.com/blog/post/the-first-alkedo-squadron-is-finally-at-sea.
Many thanks to everyone here for the great encouragement!
-
Yes well, so in the end... this will be a proper range since Irregular miniatures is going to produce it! It has now bloomed into a set of 9 different sculpts https://alkedominis.wixsite.com/blog/post/alkedo-ships-soon-available-from-irregular-minis
Just wanted to thank all of you for the big support!