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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Cubs on July 25, 2019, 05:13:30 PM

Title: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on July 25, 2019, 05:13:30 PM
I've been really interested in the Normans lately, specifically the de Hautevilles in Italy and on the First Crusade. I can't remember what first started me off on this latest jaunt but I have been devouring various titles (including some I'd already read, but now enjoying understanding the various participants in better context) and then remembered I had some old Citadel Normans knocking about on my shelf doing nothing.

So, here's part one of their journey to … well, perhaps just another cul-de-sac project, or perhaps something a little more long term, who knows.

First off, the poor fellas were all missing their shields and the leader (I think of him as the leader, he's certainly posing in management style) was missing his weapon. I decided to give him an axe from a Viking sprue and then ran into the problem of the shields. I could have bought shields I know, or used round ones from my Viking sprue, but I decided it would be more fun to make them. They're thin Forex plasticard - a light, almost spongy type of plastic sheet used in signage. It's great stuff if you can beg a company who is throwing out their old signs after an expired promotion and is really easy to cut, sand and paint. I cut to shape with a craft knife and sanded to smooth out, keeping them rimless. A hole was cut for the bosses, then the backs of the shield got their detailing - a greenstuff square pad and then card straps after they were glued on the arms. It was pretty fiddly and the back of the spearman's shield got minimal detailing because it was hard to get to, but I do like the effect so far and think they'll paint up really nicely.

(https://myalbum.com/photo/if4gKoiZrLEt/1k0.jpg)
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Belisarius on July 25, 2019, 05:30:15 PM
The Normans are an excellent army to collect as they fit into so many different lists . Norman  obviously, Saxon , Early Crusades , Later Crusades as Sergeants , Sicilian Norman , Spanish , Early French ect . Just a few off the top of my head. 
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on July 25, 2019, 05:36:53 PM
Yeah, I have a smattering of Perry Hospitallers with very Norman-like kit, so they should fit in rather well as armed dudes lacking the most up-to-date kit.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: gostgost on July 25, 2019, 08:32:55 PM
Glad to see some one else makes straps for shields!
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on July 25, 2019, 08:41:07 PM
Glad to see some one else makes straps for shields!

In fairness I don't always bother, but since I was making them from scratch and they're just for me (plus that leader dude is deliberately showing the back of the shield) … I thought yeah, time well spent.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Orctrader on July 25, 2019, 08:43:21 PM
I like those.   :)
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: rumacara on July 27, 2019, 12:11:11 AM
Will follow with interest. Nice shields. :)

Did you read Jack Ludlow series Mercenaries?
Its about the Hauteville family.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on August 03, 2019, 09:17:23 PM
Will follow with interest. Nice shields. :)

Did you read Jack Ludlow series Mercenaries?
Its about the Hauteville family.

Yes! Now I'm embarking on both volumes of 'The Normans in Sicily' by John Julius Norwich. It's a hefty tome (it's both volumes in a single paperback copy) and goes for a hefty wedge when new, but I got a 2nd hand copy on eBay for a fiver, so I'm merrily grinding my way through it. It's actually a light read, aimed very much for entertaining education, but it's physically damn heavy to lift!
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: rumacara on August 04, 2019, 08:17:20 AM
I have to check  'The Normans in Sicily' by John Julius Norwich.
If you have other interesting tittles do please recomend.
I have almost nothing here in Portugal.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on August 04, 2019, 09:20:12 AM
I first read about the De Hauteville boys - in this case Bohemond and his nephew Tancred - in books about the First Crusade (first the BBC book with Terry Jones and then more in depth ones such as Thomas Asbridge's). It was great to be able to find their backstory and see how their family reshaped Italy and had such an enormous impact on history, fighting their way from relatively humble beginnings and obscurity in Normandy, to mercenaries, then warlords, then Princes. As JJ Norwich says, it's almost unbelieveable that such an important and influential family should have so little attention in (English language) historical literature.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: armchairgeneral on August 04, 2019, 01:06:50 PM
Really enjoyed reading John Julius Norwich’s books on the Normans in Sicily. He has the knack of turning the most complex historical issues into an enthralling and readable narrative.

I came across these books after reading his outstanding history of the Byzantine empire.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on August 08, 2019, 11:50:35 AM
Here we go, they're done. What lovely sculpts, they really do make it a doddle to paint them; the faces are so full of expression and the crisp detailing is a delight. I hope I get the time to keep going with this project, because it was lots of fun. The shields were hard work (front and back) but probably time well spent at the end of the day. All things considered, next time I might well keep the shields flat-faced without a boss and use a transfer.

(https://myalbum.com/photo/RbxiRcaBAeTv/1k0.jpg)

(https://myalbum.com/photo/nrPyTdvs2DuL/1k0.jpg)

(https://myalbum.com/photo/gatMXBhrR7B4/1k0.jpg)


 
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: OSHIROmodels on August 08, 2019, 11:54:21 AM
Corking  :D
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Captain Blood on August 08, 2019, 12:45:35 PM
Tasty Cubs, very tasty  :-*
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: armchairgeneral on August 08, 2019, 12:49:03 PM
Very nice indeed  :-*
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Keith on August 08, 2019, 12:50:00 PM
Very nice indeed, Sir
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: rumacara on August 08, 2019, 05:00:11 PM
Lovely painting. :-* :-* :-*
We want more. :)
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: marrony on August 08, 2019, 08:03:31 PM
Superb :o
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on October 02, 2019, 01:22:26 PM
I managed to squeeze three more lovely old Citadel Normans onto the work desk and they're finally done! I deliberately went for round shields for two of these guys, just to shake things up a bit. Since Norman knights weren't happy about dismounting to fight for the most part, I figured these guys are on campaign and are feeling the pinch a bit, having to make do in less than ideal circumstances - hence they've lost their first (or second) choice shields. Or they just like their round shields, or whatever. The rest of the unit with all have the standard teardrop shaped ones and a little variety never hurt anyone!

First up the standard bearer - he was a spearman in a great pose for holding a flag, so I clipped off his spear, drilled out his hands and put in a wire pike, clipped down to size. The flag is homemade from paper and the design loosely based on a De Hauteville heraldry, but perhaps a cadet branch or cousin of one of the big boys, since it's blue and white check with red, instead of red and white check with blue. The shield is from a plastic sprue and the design a Battle Flags transfer, with added grime and battle damage.

(https://myalbum.com/photo/7ecpzzmYJs3i/1k0.jpg)

(https://myalbum.com/photo/g6526UwLKUZy/1k0.jpg)

This guy likes his coat of arms enough to go full-on coordinated with painted shield, helmet and matching clothing. The shield is hand-painted.

(https://myalbum.com/photo/jp5APxG5ACP2/1k0.jpg)

(https://myalbum.com/photo/WMzKGmo62xUX/1k0.jpg)

Finally, a duplicate of the earlier thrusting spearman, but this guy had lost his spear, so I drilled out his hand and replaced it with a plastic one from a Viking sprue. I thought about giving him a sword for variety, but kept it as a spear in the end. His crappy round shield is obviously pretty elderly and not his first choice, having been scrounged or looted from somewhere when things got desperate.

(https://myalbum.com/photo/Tuxgz7R7eQEH/1k0.jpg)

(https://myalbum.com/photo/X4jgdsiLu9nH/1k0.jpg)
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: rumacara on October 02, 2019, 02:57:15 PM
Great miniatures. :-* :-* :-*
That wooden shield is something. :o
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Swordisdrawn on October 02, 2019, 03:30:49 PM
Oh my that painting is brilliant. The shields are superb!
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Captain Blood on October 02, 2019, 05:32:34 PM
Boootiful Cubs  8) :-*
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Olsson on October 02, 2019, 07:08:08 PM

Brilliant painting as seen above! I see what you mean with the expressive faces, they all look quite dynamic and different. I especially love how muted colours you have on the wood, bring bright without being super stark. How do you paint the shields to get that muted appearance?
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on October 02, 2019, 08:42:09 PM
How do you paint the shields to get that muted appearance?

I keep the colours pretty plain - only a base coat and then a midtone, no highlighting or anything. Then I mess about with washes and inks to stain it all, dull the colours and basically dirty it up - making sure a bit more of the dark washes stay lower down. Then it gets a very very light drybrush with a pale beige colour to look like dust or the leather backing showing through - a bit more of this on the top part of the shield.

With the wood grain shields, it's a dark brown base, then I paint the shield colours on the surface, then it all gets progressively lighter drybrushing and more washes and inks at the end to add shade. It's a bit heart-breaking to see the shield design slowly being obscured (especially if it's taken you ages to do!) but it gets that tatty old decaying look I like. 
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Tonhel on October 02, 2019, 09:31:57 PM
I love your painting style :-*. Very well done!
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Atheling on October 03, 2019, 07:41:35 AM
Nice work!  8) 8) 8)

There are some real gems in the old Citadel/Wargames Foundry range and not just for Normans, there are some great Norse too  :)
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: tancrede on October 03, 2019, 08:00:24 AM
Slow but beautiful project, sir !
I love your painting style, and on those old minis it really does the job very well.  :-*
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Harry Faversham on October 03, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
When I look at those, it makes me realise mine are painted miniatures, but Cubs's look like real miniature people!

:-*
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Breazer on October 05, 2019, 11:28:24 AM
you really make these minis gain a lot of character with your paint job! Well done!
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Belisarius on November 21, 2019, 10:46:30 AM
I love the way you’ve recycled these older figures and brought them back to the table . They look like they’ve rolled in the mud when their horse has fallen , discarded the cumbersome teardrop and picked up a handier shield . Figures are always interesting when they look like they have a backstory. I’m enjoying this ongoing thread . ✔️
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: AKULA on November 21, 2019, 10:53:11 PM
Some absolute gems... I particularly like the care you’ve shown to weather their kit (especially the shields) ...they look like they’ve just walked off of a battlefield.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: levied troop on November 22, 2019, 08:09:25 AM
Agreed, saving those to the inspiration folder, they look superb.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on November 23, 2019, 10:31:11 AM
I'm holding out for the Victrix plastic Normans now to expand the project although I may snaffle up the odd Perry Norman/1st Crusade dude along the way.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on December 20, 2019, 02:48:03 PM
Hooray! A few more. The fella with the padded hauberk I'll probably use with the milites.

(https://myalbum.com/photo/pAX9XViHigYq/1k0.jpg)

(https://myalbum.com/photo/72E6SYPzerdS/1k0.jpg)
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: majorsmith on December 20, 2019, 04:01:46 PM
Excellent always loved the citadel normans
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Michi on December 20, 2019, 04:48:12 PM
Impressive work and very close to my heart - I like to see Norman armies being raised! :D :D
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Captain Blood on December 21, 2019, 10:06:34 AM
These are lovely, Cubs. Gritty, dingy and characterful.

But being such venerable (and therefore probably quite diminutive) figures, I’m a little sceptical they’re going to sit comfortably alongside those lovely looking new Victrix plastic Normans with their slightly exaggerated detail and dynamic poses... Well, we’ll see. Fingers crossed :)

I’ve just succumbed online to the Victrix Saxons, so will have a better idea once I have them in my sticky paws...
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on December 21, 2019, 10:25:36 AM
They'll be fine, don't worry, everything's fine. Besides, I could always claim they're slightly shorter Italians.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Michi on December 21, 2019, 04:53:15 PM
I’m a little sceptical they’re going to sit comfortably alongside those lovely looking new Victrix plastic Normans with their slightly exaggerated detail and dynamic poses... Well, we’ll see. Fingers crossed :)

15kg of mail armour and 5-10kg shield and side arms will most likely rather cause those depicted poses than dynamic shock troopers, I guess...  :D
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Baron von Wreckedoften on December 28, 2019, 09:51:25 AM
I've been very ntrigued by this thread, as I have a SAGA Norman force composed of Perry Crusade figures, with some Crusader Miniatures characters and "swords for hire" Flemish spearmen (as Perry don't make any figures in akheton).  I am - and have been for a few years now - in the process of painting them, and as a spiritual Geordie (now there's two words you seldom see next to each other!!!) I am going for a black and white theme for their shields and what passes for livery in the 11th Century, with the mercenaries being sponsored by Flemish & Newcastle Breweries and sporting the "Newcy Broon" blue star.

Very impressed by what you've done to the shields.  Somebody (you?) put up a very good tutorial on the Workbench about "weathering" shields, which I intend to use, although I was thinking of using a tool to gouge out some sword/axe cuts, to make them look a bit more 3D.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Cubs on December 28, 2019, 12:16:36 PM
Very impressed by what you've done to the shields.  Somebody (you?) put up a very good tutorial on the Workbench about "weathering" shields, which I intend to use, although I was thinking of using a tool to gouge out some sword/axe cuts, to make them look a bit more 3D.

I don't remember putting a tute on here, but I suppose I could have done and then forgotten about it! I don't want to take credit for someone else's good work mind. I did do an article for … I don't remember if it was WI or WS&S … about shields and banners a few years back though.
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Captain Blood on December 28, 2019, 08:46:49 PM
Yes, I remember the shield weathering tutorial... Hmmm... I had a feeling it was one of our German pals. Moiterei or Lt Hazel perhaps?
Could well have been you though Cubs. You do paint a mean weathered shield 8)
Title: Re: Normans - a slow project
Post by: Baron von Wreckedoften on December 28, 2019, 09:57:51 PM
Just checked and it was indeed Lt Hazel.  (Thanks, Captain Blood - love your Perry WotR figures, btw!)