Lead Adventure Forum
Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: Doug ex-em4 on August 16, 2019, 11:09:27 PM
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I need to fix some heads to bodies (Gripping Beast figures - metal). It didn’t look like just glue would do the job so I was resigned to some drilling and pinning. However, someone suggested that superglue would be fine so long as I used good quality.
So, any suggestions for a good quality superglue (alphacyanoacrylate) available in the UK? I confess, I tend to use stuff from Lidl or Poundland usually.
Doug
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Can't speak to UK but I've never found much differentiate across brands. I settle for what is nearby and affordable. Superglue can be good and can be strong but it also can be highly susceptible to sheer forces so you still may want to go the drill and wire route if this is going to be a much handled figure.
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Get a superglue gel. I use Loctite or Gorilla superglue gel. Fills those gaps that prevent the perfect fit.
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I use Gorilla Superglue Gel as well as MeridarchGekkota. Works well for me, but you do need to remember to shake the bottle well before each use. Not had any heads fall off yet. That U-Boat crew which you had the honour to command had glued-on heads, no pinning.
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Doug, gorilla glue superglue best for me also
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Zap yellow does for me. Online only though.
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Mitrebond from Screwfix is great
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Zap a Gap but always use an accelerator regardless which brand you use
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I'm in the Netherlands, so brands may not be avialable in the UK, but I am really satisfied with Bison and Pattex gel superglue...
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Just when there appeared to be something approaching a consensus (Gorilla) the choices have widened dramatically. For someone who is decision-making averse, this is becoming a high stress situation :D.
Seriously, I appreciate the input and it raises another question - accelerator. I’ve never used one. Does it have to be specific to the brand or is it generic?
The issue of sticky is becoming tricky :) (sorry).
Doug
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I buy this one from Amazon - best superglue I have used...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07JJFDM4Q
Mike
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Just when there appeared to be something approaching a consensus (Gorilla) the choices have widened dramatically. For someone who is decision-making averse, this is becoming a high stress situation :D.
Seriously, I appreciate the input and it raises another question - accelerator. I’ve never used one. Does it have to be specific to the brand or is it generic?
The issue of sticky is becoming tricky :) (sorry).
Doug
Mitrebond from Screwfix can be bought with accelerator too.
Definitely recommend it.
Try bicarbonate of soda for gap filling with superglue, fills and dries rockhard.
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A bought Zap a Cap from a game store after reading how good it was supposed to be cost me about a fiver for a bottle. It went hard in the bottle within a few months of having it!!! lol
Loctite or similar for me now...
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Seriously, I appreciate the input and it raises another question - accelerator. I’ve never used one. Does it have to be specific to the brand or is it generic?
Generic but accelerator can make the superglue brittle (it will become brittle over a period of years anyway but the kicker makes it even more so).
A bought Zap a Cap from a game store after reading how good it was supposed to be cost me about a fiver for a bottle. It went hard in the bottle within a few months of having it!!! lol
Loctite or similar for me now...
Must have been a really old one as I've never had a problem with any I've bought online. In the past I've had the same bottle for well over a year without any adverse effects.
Keeping it in the fridge can help with it's longevity.
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I might have forgot to close it properly - it had a twist cap and three different nozzles/lids to cap that with. I had the thin stuff. Not sure my wife would take too kindly to it in our fridge - she runs a food business from our home but thanks for the tip :)
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Yeah, not really recommended at home lol Would do in a beer fridge though :D
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Another easy way to increase it's shelf life is to keep it in an airtight container with a desiccant, some silica gel or something like rice. the way cyanoacrylate( the working part of superglue) works is by chain polymerisation in the presence of water, the humidity in the air is enough to start the process, so keeping moisture out will stop it from getting hard.
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Thanks for the tip. I don't like to work with Superglue because of the tips. I prefer to dip the end of a paper clip into the glue and use that as the applicator. This means I don't use the tubes, so use the screw-top bottles (and make sure the top doesn't get glued to the bottle!).
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There is a lot of nonsense talked about superglue.
You will find that almost every brand is packaged and labelled from only a handful of chemical plants that make the stuff, so the actual recipes are pretty much identical across brands.
The significant difference in the recipe of the glues affects the viscosity (thick/thinness). Basically to change the viscosity they add a thickening agent. This has some negative effects on the basic bond strength and speed of the glue. Thinner sets stronger and faster, thicker is slower and weaker. However the area in the bond is far higher with thicker, because it fills the gaps, so with poor mating surfaces thicker CA glue may provide a stronger joint.
CA glue is basically a very fast setting 2 part glue. One part is the chemical (resin based) and the second part is water. It is the contact between the glue and moisture that catalyses the cure. That's why CA glue was originally intended to stick wounds together and also why it works underwater. You can see this by putting a drop of water on a drop of superglue and watch it skin over and go frosty. In setting the glue faster this also makes the adhesive more brittle than a slower cure. In very dry climates CA glue can be slow to set. One of the recommendations in setting CA glue is to blow on it, not because you are drying the glue, but because the humidity in your breath activates the cure.
CA glue also contains a retarder which is acidic in nature and this slows the cure time. Without this retarder the glue would be curing as it met the atmosphere coming out of the bottle.
Accelerator is just a water based solvent which carries an alkali compound to provide moisture to speed the cure and neuralise the acid in the glue. You can make Accelerator at home simply by mixing water with a little baking soda and putting it in a mister. Your home made stuff will make the joint cloudy whereas the solvents in professional accelerator don't - but basically ts the same stuff.
This is also why mixing CA glue and baking soda gives you a rock hard 'filler'. But remember 'hard' is not the same as 'strong'. And what you need in a successful glue joint is predominantly strength and toughness.
There is a lot of talk about accelerator strengthening a glued joint - and it's simply not true. If anything accelerator will weaken a bond by causing similar brittleness issues to water.
Accelerator is handy because you don't need to hold awkwardly shaped parts in place while the glue cures - which even for just a few seconds can be a pain for things like heads on bodies. I've usually found that trying to hold most things in place and then letting go with one hand to reach for accelerator means i need 3 hands and my 2 hands are better spent holding the item for like 30 seconds while it cures.
As with most issues to do with gluing things together, getting a good bonding area is the biggest variable. Yes, you can use a thicker CA glue (or a CA gel which is really just very thick CA glue), but remember these are all just additives to the basic formula and although they will fill any gap, they also weaken the bond somewhat. Whether that weakness matters is a mostly dependent on your application.
I suspect that none of this is helping the OP make a decision :-)
My answer then is that my preferred CA glue is the one with the nozzle that clogs least and lasts longest without getting gunked up, and allows me fine control of where i put it. For that reason and that reason alone i usually use Roket or Zap-a-Gap.
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Poundland superglue is what I use, the Tommy Walsh approved own brand. ;)
It's genuinely one of the best glues I've used, it's fairly runny and dries real quick. The nozzle can get get clogged but they provide a drawing pin in the pack to unblock it. ;D
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...superglue from Poundland.
Is what I use.
I have used some expensive copies ::) on occasion but never saw any difference apart from the (higher) price.
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I have used the poundland stuff, but I had a tube go solid on me after one use, which was annoying. Granted, you get a bunch of tubes, but still...
Unfortunately I seem to have developed a bit of a reaction to superglue in general - major headaches and sinus issues, despite wearing a mask and having the kitchen fan running :'(
I picked up some odourless superglue (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07GV3N8JZ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00) from Amazon. It's flippin' expensive, but so far hasn't caused any headaches :)
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Poundland superglue is what I use, the Tommy Walsh approved own brand. ;)
It's genuinely one of the best glues I've used, it's fairly runny and dries real quick. The nozzle can get get clogged but they provide a drawing pin in the pack to unblock it. ;D
Same, you get a decent splash of glue in the bottle and it does the job. But to be honest, I don't go out of my way to get it and really just buy a bunch of tubes on a card for £1 from whatever cheapo shop is near. I made a little stand a while back that sits the tubes upright so the nozzles clog less. If they do set or go manky, they get thrown and I reach for the next one, secure in the knowledge I've lost about 10p of glue.
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I do like the Gorilla Glue superglue bottle, it has a good secure screw-on cap that seems to keep out air and prevent the glue from drying up/thickening prematurely.
But barring that, as other have said, I usually buy the packs of 3-4 small tubes from a dollar store/discount store. They seem to work fine, and if they dry up, no big loss.
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Is what I use.
I have used some expensive copies ::) on occasion but never saw any difference apart from the (higher) price.
This.
Tommy Walsh approved glue from Poundland every time. Three tubes for a pound. Even comes with a de-clogging pin and a few precision application nozzles. If one brings up or goes off chuck it away and start again.
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I’ve definitely seen differences between the really cheap Poundland / Home bargains super glue and more expensive ones.
Recently I have been adding a lot of pikes to 10mm figures, with the cheap superglue, they just wouldn’t stick in place. With gorilla glue, they stuck very easily. Which is important for doing 40-50 figures who are fiddly at best, without getting runny glue on your fingers.
I’ve had similar results when building artillery.
For basing and the like, then the cheap super glue is fine.
The problem with the expensive stuff, is that it often dries up in the nozzle. Which is much more of a pain when the tube costs £2-3, rather then 20p.
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I've not encountered any issues with Gorilla yet and rather like their brush on stuff.
I try to get it on offer though. sometimes Lidl or wilkinsons have it a quid or two cheaper.
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Thanks for some excellent contributions and especially to Brandlin for his interesting and informative exposition on the subject.
Doug
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MitreFFFast
See this post.
Tony
https://dampfpanzerwagon.blogspot.com/2010/05/mitre-ffffast-by-ever-build.html
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The absolute best, based on about 40,000 models is Bob Smith Industries..... I have never had a failure or misting. I accept no substitutes.
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The absolute best, based on about 40,000 models is Bob Smith Industries..... I have never had a failure or misting. I accept no substitutes.
do you have a recommendation from their range of products? Quite a few; I'm not sure where to start.
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The best all-round is the Gap Filling Medium 5-15 Seconds...
I use this pretty much exclusively. The thin is like quicksilver.
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thanks - I've ordered one of those.
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The best all-round is the Gap Filling Medium 5-15 Seconds...
I use this pretty much exclusively. The thin is like quicksilver.
actually, not sure I've got the right one ... would it be possible for you to post a link to that one?
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Tarzan's Grip for me, if only due to the pin in the lid poking through the nozzle and preventing the glue from gunking up in the nozzle.
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Your wish is my command:
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ah right, thanks.
yes I got that one.
bit disappointed that there's no pin in the cap to prevent clogging - do you have any trouble with the Smith products in that regard?
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I just wipe the nozzle
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+1 for BSI
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I just wipe the nozzle
lol now there's a thought
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Tarzan's Grip for me, if only due to the pin in the lid poking through the nozzle and preventing the glue from gunking up in the nozzle.
Sounds useful. Pet peeve of mine.
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I find that a cleanable nozzle, smooth application, and no ghosting as well as the speed and strength of the bond are what matter. But to be fair I am using a lot, every day, so my needs are different.
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yes good point. I tend to use the stuff in bursts - then days / weeks (months!) pass, so I should hardly be surprised by 'issues' in the clogging dept.
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I'm in the couldn't careless group. When it comes to brand's
And I use bucket loads of superglue.(the Cardboard Space1889 spaceship took more than a litre of superglue)
Like Cubs and other's Mr Walsh's Poundland 90ml for £1 is pretty much my hobby goto.To the point the kitchen notice board practically shines with clear plastic 📌 I even use it for masters ,and survives pretty much on par with glues four or five times the price.
Drilling and pinning is always going to be a stronger bond regardless of the brand, if no other reason than you've increased the surface area and in multiple plains .excluding the tensile strength of the pin it's self.That said all the figures I'm doing for my fantasy stuff aren't pinned as it'd take some doing to decapitate them in a normal game.
For basing figures I'll use superglue for sand (as you know super glue + sand = unpredictable drying time.)Although for commissions I'll use liquid plastic cement to bond sand to plastic bases as it's a fairly constant drying time(so no buggered brushes when you've underestimated the setting time.As it washes quickly off the brush in soapy water.)plus it doesn't bunch up around the foot of the model.
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Thanks for some excellent contributions and especially to Brandlin for his interesting and informative exposition on the subject.
Doug
+1
I wonder how his comments apply to the 'rubber-infused' superglues/ gels - which I've tended to believe (coz I accept marketing spiel unquestioningly) are stronger / more flexible ... have purchased the Bob Smith variant accordingly ... at a particularly premium price ... (actually not that bad considering amount ...) o_o
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The largest BSI bottles are the best value
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My bad sholud have mentioned. For grown-up work I use sureloc .(on account of I'm not footing the bill)
Sureloc are a UK manufacturer and you can order direct from them.500ml bottle is £24.99 plus they do all the flavors under one roof.If memory serves a low odour version which I've never tried as The safety elf always insists on respirators when I'm playing indoors .
Which isn't a bad thing because it's liberally splashed around by everyone when were doing displays.every thing from gluing lunch boxes to benches and boots to scaffolding boards .oh once feathers on a duck.(to clarify these are highly skilled professional's unfortunately they are all ex squadies to boot.)