Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Stuart H on November 01, 2019, 11:20:10 AM
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Is anyone aware of good references for Iranian uniforms during the British-Soviet occupation of Iran in 1941? I want to make a unit or two for all three countries involved.
There are some decent images and references to the British/Indian and Soviet forces and one or two for the Iranians but I'm struggle to find any good images of Iranian uniforms and then think about figures to use/convert. Farrokh's website https://kavehfarrokh.com/military-history-1900-present/armored-vehicles-of-the-iranian-army-1921-1941/ (https://kavehfarrokh.com/military-history-1900-present/armored-vehicles-of-the-iranian-army-1921-1941/) and Steven Ward's Immortals are helpful.
Thanks
Stuart
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Hi Stuart,
I've done a bit of research into this with a chum, the Iranian Army pretty much wore WW1 German Uniform (or close enough), with either Stahlhelm or a cap very similar to the North Koreans in the Korean War.
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I have always thought about using RCW Whites sporting the gymnastyorka-and-stahlhelm combination for troops wearing the summer uniform (as per the shots here: https://youtu.be/CS_InX8cbJ8?t=44)
Otherwise greatcoated WWI Germans would also do, judging from the parade below (go back a bit earlier and you'll find tanks as well as a close-up of officers and a tankman):
https://youtu.be/rqqrPc7JnMw?t=367
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There are also some fantastic hi-resolution pictures available from the National Library of Australia:
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-159625847/view
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-159621400/view
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-159653158/view
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-159652473/view
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-159879393/view
http://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-159632866/view
I wouldn't be surprised if you have similar lurking elsewhere, on sites such as Getty or the IWM.
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Thank you both. This has been really helpful. Please keep posting.
I did also find Cuprum's thread on the same Operation which has one or two photos Ive not seen before.
Just got bought a Warlord P38t which Ill build as a CKD-TNH, and now can start buying some figures to go with it too,
Stuart
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Looks like an interesting project. ;)
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Three interesting images of Iran's TNH tanks
An original photo
(http://ftr.wot-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/TNH_01.jpg)
The photo was probably taken in Iran, as the website "praga-tnh-where-it-all-began" says the tanks were shipped out without their arms and assembled in Iran. This site is well worth a read.
An artists impression of the same tank, in a dark olive colour
(http://ftr.wot-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/VAL0897.jpg)
And this one, in colour, taken at a tank park in Tehran. Its hard to know if the colour is the original. It matches that of the Sherman behind i, which was delivered to Iran after WW!!, and other tanks used in the Iran-Iraq War, so its possibly a later repaint.
(https://wwiiafterwwii.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/tnha.jpg)
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(http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/czech/Tanks/TNHP.png)
(http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/czech/Tanks/CKD_AH-IV_Iranian.png)
(https://wwiiafterwwii.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/ah-iv_move.jpg?w=809)
The first were CKD-Skoda AH-IV tankettes. Iran was the first customer for these little tanks which were issued to the 1st infantry division in 1941 (50 delivered in 1937-38). Orders for 400 more cancelled when Czechoslovakia was seized by the Germans. In addition 60 CKD-Skoda TNH were also provided at the same period, and again, later orders were never fulfilled.
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More pictures from the magnum archives:
(https://mediastore4.magnumphotos.com/CoreXDoc/MAG/Media/TR2/e/4/2/5/LON3133.jpg)
(https://mediastore3.magnumphotos.com/CoreXDoc/MAG/Media/TR2/2/9/9/6/LON90646.jpg)
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to me they look, uniform-wise, very similar to GMD Chinese in field cap. Basically WW1 style tunic, puttees, and basic webbing.
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Thanks for all the advice and recommendations.
I haven't progressed much further partly dues to my WoRs project but continue to find excellent source material including this Pathe news reelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RVYXRTeOiA (ftp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RVYXRTeOiA), which shows Morris trucks, an Indian Pattern Rolls Royce, Indian Army headgear, and crucially close up of Iranian troops including cavalry.
Stuart
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I haven't got much further with this project. Some Bolt Action 8th Army figures with the Sikh headgear, included on the spruce, are sitting on my workbench awaiting painting, and no progress on the P38 conversion yet whilst looking at Empress Miniatures' site I realised that the armoured car in the previously mentioned Pathe News clip (1.24 min) is a Crossley India Pattern armoured car, not a Rolls Royce. And even better, because of the Jazz Age model I won't have to build that domed turret.
Some good images from the Tank Museum including this (https://www.tankmuseum.org/assets/object_images/bov_high/TracerPix/Vehicles/Inter%20War/Britain/Armoured%20Cars/Crossley/E1951.4_Armoured%20Car%20Crossley%20Chevrolet%20Indian%20Pattern_Tank%20Story%20Hall_2013_8960-C3.jpg)
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I've just finished reading Osprey's Battle's of World War 11 Iraq 1941 to add a bit of context and comparison for the Iran campaign.
I have to say I knew nothing about this campaign and I would make a curious and novel on to game - British and Indian forces with WW1 armoured cars, fighting Iraqi forces with better British equipment, and German ME110s thinly disguised, the Trans Jordan Legion and forced marches across the desert.
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For Iraq look no further than here:
http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Inch_High_Club/Inch_High_Iraq41_Scenario/Iraq41_Sc_intro.htm
Interestingly enough the siege of Habbaniya was covered at Salute many years ago:
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=324417
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For Iraq look no further than here:
http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/Inch_High_Club/Inch_High_Iraq41_Scenario/Iraq41_Sc_intro.htm
Thanks for the mention. My book on the subject is available from Caliver Books https://www.caliverbooks.com/bookview.php?0c7eduv23ghd9as3colsnh92v1&id=22375 (https://www.caliverbooks.com/bookview.php?0c7eduv23ghd9as3colsnh92v1&id=22375)
(http://www.morvalearth.co.uk/cover%20small.jpg)
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I think Ive found the basic figures for my Iranian forces - the https://wargamesatlantic.com/products/german-infantry-1916-1918?variant=31552407404642 (https://wargamesatlantic.com/products/german-infantry-1916-1918?variant=31552407404642) WW1 Germans, as discussed on the LAF'sWW1 page. I only want a spruce or two and these have the basic simple uniform and putties plus a few stahlhelms and misc heads and kit for some conversions.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0078/4764/1186/products/GermanWW1BoxCoverWebsite_1800x1800.jpg?v=1590778592)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0078/4764/1186/products/WAAGW001WargamesAtlanticLateWarGermans_Small_fa3c5864-781a-4fe6-80cf-1cfb344ac85e_1800x1800.jpg?v=1590778602)
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And while you're at it, you should also get this:
https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=17881215240&searchurl=sortby%3D17%26tn%3Dcampaign%2Bin%2Bwestern%2Basia&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title2
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Still working on this project. Painted up some Indian Army forces but not started the Iranians yet. But found this useful and v clear image of Iranian forces on parade. The officers seems to a more frock coat vibe than the privates.
(https://www.kavehfarrokh.com/in23/uploads/2015/12/Iranian-army-troops-1930s-or-early-1940s.jpg)
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Sorry, but the pictures I posted earlier from the National Library of Australia are far superior in their clarity and zoomability... be it that of officers or ORs. Based on those pictures I would look at White Russians for the former given the tunic, cap, and shoulder boards.
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Its taken me absolute ages to get even this far, given its only a small bit of greenstuff and plastic card. But this is the first time I’ve built any tank kit since my teens and the first time I’ve got a knife, greenstuff and plastic card out on one.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEi4Auyw8rFgVU5OGi4KEjyIHJxTBSK2QUhFctYDFG0wtdmsCNoxhyvu--SahwX1165WtNj16dA_8tzzsBDjgBnWQdDo_Jd0ChvA5FGTUcaAcZrm1-JAWJqfr4YyJ3olMf8ZTCVtwGemhmAkSHo2xcwuuLM9HnxcItmJFZsHUpN-U8TZctdnetrHvyRXcg=s648)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEidjn2nJC52epKWuXlCAFsyBErYV5OrsF3OJUHTGG7ltjlCCpW5gtwCUYXP7jy_KSy_aX1eCrZEdrl0_X43X6dObR4a6NqTRPL7FW-0Ot8rUeQn9ZjhwDemcjF9vVfmdSTuZoZ8NftV_pR3WsCVnJzTVWwg6qYbIUwEQMdDJxbxVnYwrf4uFfFgIbGx2w=s320)
I finally studied this excellent http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/03/ckd-export-tanks-offer-you-cant-refuse.html (http://www.tankarchives.ca/2017/03/ckd-export-tanks-offer-you-cant-refuse.html) on Tank Archive website, which shows the evolution of the THN including the prototype and delivery models sent to Iran.
The page makes reference to Iran’s nascent tank fleet. Prior to its THNs Iran bought Renault FTs, and between one and twelve Marmon-Herrington CTL-1 tanklet, as the photo Farrokh uses would suggest too.
Iran ended up buying the THNs as it was unable to purchase tanks from other suppliers. Initially, Iran went to the Czechoslovak companies, CKD and Skoda, seeking 100 3 ton tanklets. However in 1935, the Iranians returned to Prague with a contract to purchase 30 AH-IV tankettes from CKD and 26 Skoda TKN light tanks, the latter with 37 mm Skoda guns. This was ultimately expanded to 50 of each type. Iran was negotiating for the purchase of another 200+ THN tanks when Germany occupied Czech part of the republic.
Tank Archive has some excellent line drawings and photos of the TKN/THN prototypes and production models.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjQi1onC-fuFah7xaMHbdQyDkn0ihE1NRXCoRVnU-lrwOOAOB5XcVyFbfXbNtqwvQeZvsBlvLhVAyxExcykG5fSq0wapFrNFKmgjVVZKelX4I8ZWC10kTUHPyFWMpDstkfVaIoQhpeb-YbiiijBlPslN65oWP7zwQaRXDAYxmCxmqknY4DJzVnns-cmMw=s320)
The mass production tank was simplified from the prototype including a shift of the machine gun mount, and observation slits added to the sides of the driving compartment. The engine compartment and muffler mount were changed too. The turret was also changed, with the commander's cupola design simplified, ventilation ports added on the sides, the coaxial machinegun mount changed, and the number of observation slits increased. As the image below shows, an AA machinegun mount could be attached to the commander's cupola.
11 TKNs were paraded in Tehran in 1937, demonstrating possession of one of the most advanced tanks at the time. It is not thought that any of the TKNs were used against the British or Soviet forces in 1941.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjvSeNm8X4_cJk2L7YwVnfvD7hnzf514hozTGQxG13Ya_dUguRtaAPcUy6Emhz8WsDxZL1vkkmT03lPiyOSyKSsI6omktucd7L0_U7Z8KGcbmWTOs7t8OyViYOkTlrcU1uT-h8UOhR81E8pr3zvP-ci3PQTuyEeVhDGISi1PZ8q4483014Rj0B_OLalSg=s320)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEg9rugfBf-4iZczK6U2QOecvF3xiHHKYgfWoaD7TI_QVNeO_-PKcwXZELnTIhGPQYGdrzEKNQ9_BLUl1oTo2lkYa2G6Or8Kodqr_IwLyscxaBrQlxsurMMc7LoseyZexwXr0uI6My8nsnd2pct8S4TCvBfLgD8D3HOvFUUxL8HuZGmgeAZnQ6tSltemHw=s320)
Using a Warlord Bolt Action Pz 38t, I’ve attempted to replicate the vehicles shown on Tank Archive and Kaveh Farrokhs’s site. The gun mantle, and turret cupola and rear were the main areas of change. A bit of cutting, green stuff and plastic card. I removed the square Pz38t observation slits and made some TKN round ones. I made up some boxes on the running board. There are some discrepancies including regarding the hull machine gun. I tended to defer to Farrokh’s Tehran tank park image when this arose.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjZaeYPc7q_vVYelLpegnGhNnZl9Uk-J6JFnFzWSKAbSkKSdVJFBCx995l18iXT83MyYiDo96zV9KjB9w3fzrieiOyV-F-Uq1CsaVfUHVSIBqfXY9-GshkjWyFHIDGlj9XogQMpAEy9IZRg1K2-TwoyAt__J22OTXjHo2uOmA9tFOoj38h-XnnVXkuo4w=s320)
Next up painting and possibly starting some Iranian infantry based on Wargame Atlantic WW1 Germans and Eureka WW11 Chinese in soft hats. Took a while to decide these were the ones.
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At last.
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgy3GVAFF1u4BaHJ1fwbO70E3yOSBZY_m-NGwT8xOAurJ9zo5JRBAwkvBDCMIp3epcjw7L1I2YtMOXzUlcro6LVg6uj3ux70pWCc9I4hvdbp9xEOdPWnxrl0EBE9viI5lYDbq02wCnQq4voAPrx6J-ZKpX60NaVMm6ylMJKf2VLtTqPk3CONltjxJSQzg/s1280/thumbnailr_Image.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiMJyiYgVUSdi62DdLkPobhioLdAWT21xIjOBYr44lJy6vbFMHn2CRVMJbn85Ydce2bi9VcgSSi7WzoHKc2L8MS8lttUI-EP9W8icifNYXYhH-5gxCdsvfkRFZmCYZFAbA5GoOLKGQaFvHDsWhNz2eRW81lvKDUbKMcDEMUdEetVcL4oYuR-HQwY7wSbQ/s320/thumbnailt_Image.jpg)
(https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEggcsTODkVya7JXv-35UrWAmLWhkDBk_o35cBQR0fLsFnbhUPzbagant4ZDNswRn2kphrp0t_56XcqnJ-UM9ytdp3Lu6LezSIUSdiH1JOi3Tcm1DFgQ7uRZvA6Ns86FsVbifRuija_-Dq3oY-hlCGW0hgMyX6pXnutdRjhJq06VA2cPzUiQoM3fesU81g/s1280/thumbnaily_Image.jpg)
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Great work! An interesting topic. I look forward to seeing your continuing progress.
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+1 to what GG said! And superb modeling on the tank!