Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Atheling on February 10, 2020, 04:07:14 PM
-
Boom!
Available here:
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/barons-war (https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/barons-war)
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0657/9717/collections/BWFS_cd947959-07ac-42c3-aed7-712ccb8ed4ad_grande.jpg?v=1581344028)
-
Ohhhh will not hurt to pick up some more!
Cheers
Matt
-
I'm glad they are available. I have a third of my spearmen done from the Kickstarter and thinking I may need more.
-
These minis look great, the picture from HVM is even better!
-
Please forgive my ignorance, are these minis to late for 3rd crusade?
-
Please forgive my ignorance, are these minis to late for 3rd crusade?
Yes. Originally I got very excited and thought the same thing but on close inspection I came to the conclusion that the armours of the men at arms were indeed too late.
-
Please forgive my ignorance, are these minis to late for 3rd crusade?
Sadly not. I kickstarted everything as I like the mini's and will back the second kickstarter too, but I would have prefered it to be around or just before 3rd crusade which would lead to a much more diverse miniature range instead of a miniature range concentrated on the Baron's war conflict.
-
The minis are lovely, but the price for the mounted knights is a bit eye-watering.
For essentially the same price, Crusader offers very nice Late Crusade minis and includes a 3rd knight for the same price (so, about $4.20 a model). Once you remove VAT, Gripping Beast offers 4 for a similar price (granted these are much prettier than Gripping Beast). I'm also not sure the $13.50 for two vs $15.50 for four Footsore Normans is even close to reasonable.
I backed the kickstarter, and do not regret it. However, even there, the knights were just too expensive for what you get vs all of the other options on the market (Fireforge knights work out to under $3 per model, and Conquest works out to about $1.60 per model). Some are admittedly plastic, but $6.75 per model, even in metal, is well over the competition (and way more then their other offerings at $3.88 a model).
The foot are at least only a dollar more than the equivalent models in other ranges.
-
The cost per figure is a valid point. I doubt I would use them exclusively but I don't use any range exclusively. I like to mix and match and am always thankful to see new minis from my favorite historical period.
-
Would these chaps be suitable for the Albigenesian Crusades?
Mainly the earlier period,round about the battle of Muret,1213.
Thanks,
Andy
-
Yes, perfectly suitable for the Albigensian Crusades.
-
If you are using them for the Albigensian Crusades, how will you tell the Christians from the heretics?
-
Just kill them all, God will know his own....
-
<rimshot>
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/86420308_532669317363907_3813209404342272000_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQnoURQgb8GPJoFoyKAkg1SpRH-IA6P9DTE_2lCRrcTYHs2vZCjbD6OKAPtgMwmxpQM&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=aedbd1b87c42bd182e05d864745b57b5&oe=5EF7C877)
-
https://www.facebook.com/andyhobdaygames/photos/pcb.532670590697113/532669727363866/?type=3&theater
More of them are coming!
-
They are lovely :-* :-* :-*
Is that some sort of civilian in the back left?
(https://scontent.flhr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/86766418_532669730697199_3011181792901201920_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_oc=AQlX4CeZTzuTAkCtUG2VKYinRw_FU0xRQfqGvZp0F5KkPaUdhSCVPtAuv0EmEGUv_DA&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr2-1.fna&oh=246d0d063b014220f3b61f73e7b9caa0&oe=5F01CB5E)
-
They look really good, love that mounted knight. But....... I haven’t even started my Kickstarter lot yet! :o
-
Can't delete?
-
[The minis are lovely, but the price for the mounted knights is a bit eye-watering.
For essentially the same price, Crusader offers very nice Late Crusade minis and includes a 3rd knight for the same price (so, about $4.20 a model). Once you remove VAT, Gripping Beast offers 4 for a similar price (granted these are much prettier than Gripping Beast). I'm also not sure the $13.50 for two vs $15.50 for four Footsore Normans is even close to reasonable.]
I think this is a valid point although it might be worth considering that as the Barons war mounted knights all have caparisoned horses, that contributes to a significant chunk more of metal in each one compared to the Norman Calvary.
-
If you can't afford the metal knights, which many can't including me, you could use the cheap Conquest games early medieval knights.
-
That's my plan along with the ones from the Kickstarter...
I'd prefer to see a more round topped nasal helm on that crossbowman to differentiate him from the Norman period.
-
I am happy that we are getting more miniatures, but I do wish that they had waited longer. Most people have just started painting their pledges from the first KS, another KS might attract less attention due to being too soon after the first. But I'm mostly just annoyed that I'll be unable to pledge ;D lol
-
That's my plan along with the ones from the Kickstarter...
I'd prefer to see a more round topped nasal helm on that crossbowman to differentiate him from the Norman period.
It's likely that the 'Norman' style helmet was pretty much ubiquitous even at this 'late' date but I see your point. Variation in any given range is always a good thing for our toys.
-
It's likely that the 'Norman' style helmet was pretty much ubiquitous even at this 'late' date but I see your point. Variation in any given range is always a good thing for our toys.
Yes, and Andy is providing a spread of styles that matches my work on the topic :)
-
Really nice new figures, and very interested in the civilians!
-
Yes, and Andy is providing a spread of styles that matches my work on the topic :)
It's a beautiful range and one that I'm very excited about, though I reckon I might have said that a dozen times on various fora lol 8)
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/87983817_537581883539317_8661268316544827392_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlBXTXzw3b5GK8dPG7JGRntQy0zVmCrF0ydqQNfpvXejKXY6QZW7oNT7RzmIzJvO30&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=fcfa386ab84d5bf078054ce648228e46&oe=5EB962D5)
https://www.facebook.com/andyhobdaygames/photos/pcb.537583166872522/537581876872651/?type=3&theater
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/87983817_537581883539317_8661268316544827392_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlBXTXzw3b5GK8dPG7JGRntQy0zVmCrF0ydqQNfpvXejKXY6QZW7oNT7RzmIzJvO30&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=fcfa386ab84d5bf078054ce648228e46&oe=5EB962D5)
https://www.facebook.com/andyhobdaygames/photos/pcb.537583166872522/537581876872651/?type=3&theater
I saw these fleetingly on FB last evening- they look great, lovely posture and dynamism in these sculpts! :-* :-* :-*
-
A nice range of figures but I was surprised that the spearmen were shield-less, is this correct for this period?
-
Just bought a batch of the foot knights and they are lovely!
Any release date for the new ones??? The double handed weapon models will be mine.... :-*
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/89338095_542455509718621_3019573411673276416_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQkX0xfB4-RkTqeSiKq_1lC_H6N3UlWDFYMkEEyQGgUh4r_e8d32vywolFNRaQlC60g&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=e95926850963b5a1dfe59893f2daac4e&oe=5E99BF9A)
Revolting peasants!
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/89093147_542455563051949_4278299769169772544_o.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQkPQAECtljCjDdNo896n9xqstIx7Oj_h4jZgiOMns4jnZXqmh-6gsUZF8T-cEIXdrA&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=7e00c7acdd2b0ec18555dcf7f706a8ed&oe=5E98B2A6)
https://www.facebook.com/andyhobdaygames/photos/pcb.542456493051856/542455559718616/?type=3&theater
-
:-* :-* :-*
So many uses for those clubmen/peasants 8)
-
Oh wow. I need loads of those peasants.
-
Hooray! :D :-*
-
https://www.facebook.com/andyhobdaygames/photos/a.352225658741608/550007115630127/?type=3&theater&ifg=1
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/89861625_550007118963460_7257105596082552832_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_eui2=AeEEhxyppRQg8iD9fiSKQ7iiHAMwall2_aBGA6rbafiL5l6bIr_nRA5k5z-EOfdjuUO7aoKUOomY3D6WvpyWZttp1s_M1hK8DtTb5C-l6Y3rqA&_nc_oc=AQnGQCzVs0vJof4fgP-JDhk6QrWn9L_5-laBD1BCIMMJ7mI_QLUDbh18J96o1vGW8aY&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=ed33440460d8ce84bfa6d0a812125ad2&oe=5E97CFA6)
-
Ooooo! That’s nice. That face is brilliant.
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/90245719_550813528882819_3526195526137544704_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQnmzxDZUcWyF58TLWEX10yBYrMTZPKAoYmvIVuPnOFbEVAi-5f-dhx7-QG9bRkvDqU&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=3abb8df55761e0530c4dd9db2b5aada5&oe=5E9A8410)
-
Lovely sculpts
Cheers
Matt
-
Lovely sculpts
Cheers
Matt
They really are! :-* :-* :-*
-
They really are! :-* :-* :-*
today found the banner bearer of Phillip II
Hugo (Hughes) De Calvimont
de gueules a la bande d’or chargée d’un lion passant de sable
red feild, a gold bande (from top left to right) charged with a black lion
Originally from Basse Marne,
Hugues (hugo) de Calvimont banner bearer to Phillipe de France, 1181-1223.
his sones Alvert & Guilliame also mentioned in the campaigns in Normandy and Maine.
-
Do you have The Government of Philip Augustus by J.W. Baldwin, as well as Bradbury's Philip Augustus?
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91995084_559730514657787_51860222565679104_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkrTnELZJPM0hPo_jkAJ9K9oDbmCDJKjI6EHLGwPC_uSD6YaWlT9hkWYVKlq7ZFHZk&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=b4bc5d37703155e72929689ceca5b99f&oe=5EAEE861)
-
oh these look really nice. I might want to get into that
-
The start is near!
It really looks good! :-*
(https://scontent-bru2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/92420950_561282594502579_2516538810376912896_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlc1c3oeWuX4vOxJMRsQgcZrUBOJEQiMOzowaugtHRcwcd7a3Zv70KhAC_gaDlEbfAT8sU1-ojW8bfZs9295h8W&_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.xx&oh=774c380cc8854ce9324739c66a105d26&oe=5EB2B761)
-
That's awesome news!
Just wondering what the predicted delivery time is?
-
That's awesome news!
Just wondering what the predicted delivery time is?
Last time I received them before christmas. So I guess with the current Covid problems mid to late summer is maybe possible. Footsore is still running / making moulds and etc.. so I have high hopes for a timely delivery.
-
https://www.facebook.com/andyhobdaygames/photos/a.352225658741608/561282591169246/?type=3&theater&ifg=1
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/92420950_561282594502579_2516538810376912896_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQnoZ8n_YpnBOvrRlaCTFlLUb9rkYVPvBQkfQacQHV5oVRjLPu0uC6zmMi1kaFELFP4&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=18ecf941b0adbdce2ed2106f20553f02&oe=5EB36192)
-
Very nice figures!!!! And the AAR you put in Facebook, very interesting too.
-
Excellent! I need to get back to panting the first batch. The archer above looks like how I picture the Ivanhoe version of Robin Hood
-
They look vey nice.
Was not aware of this range but I see they have now announced that the second Kickstarter will start on the 26th April. Have just ordered myself a couple of packs from the existing range to see what they are like in the flesh.
Steve
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93305491_565966307367541_4699178406372179968_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQlDMASXSaOpEcS_v8S88YAL3V1zNhCwuqCP5mv7Lk1mRiJlbdJPK4Z7fgYWdLchxbY&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&oh=9f788c074ba31bfd36c1f3b9a427ff19&oe=5EBB7401)
-
:-* :-* :-*
-
They look vey nice.
Was not aware of this range but I see they have now announced that the second Kickstarter will start on the 26th April. Have just ordered myself a couple of packs from the existing range to see what they are like in the flesh.
Steve
They are very nice figures, Steve. Small and fine, but with a very good level of detail and a pleasure to paint. You are going to enjoy them!
-
They actually arrived yesterday afternoon and they are very nice indeed.
Little smaller than I am used to working with and I'm a little worried about having to drill out hands for the spears. Need to think about maybe getting myself a small electric drill for that. Really are very nice figures though, lots of character.
Steve
-
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hobbers/the-barons-war-28mm-medieval-miniatures/posts/2812708?fbclid=IwAR1FQvFfHMjO0PcqCV2KgC9fBTR3Ufdm8snBzw0UGVbtjHBaUDFT5EniYM4
The new kickstarter outlined.
-
I’m very tempted by that Retinue level pledge.
Steve
-
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/93778226_3667277746680260_6645751623228325888_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQmmn4CtAkFYB-6FRvVEUHCXSiU9q1V0oNrokIs4RouLj34yP-eqBRDKjZwWAI85zGQ&_nc_ht=scontent-yyz1-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=2d9762f81f19c37a2080b52534c9cc68&oe=5EBE2F36)
The Sweetener..... Richard Coeur de Lion.
https://www.facebook.com/FootsoreMiniatures/photos/pcb.3667290443345657/3667277733346928/?type=3&theater
-
Cracking 👍
-
Now that is a nice figure!
-
I’m in :-* :-*
And today I’ll actually undercoat my first figure from the last KS lol
-
Hopefully we will see a dedicated 3rd crusade range 😁
-
Is that (wonderful) figure for general release or only for this weekend?
-
Looks like just the weekend 😩
-
Although I'm sure it will make its way into the characters section of their website in six months time. Nearly every special character has. 🙂
-
Is that (wonderful) figure for general release or only for this weekend?
Looks like just the weekend 😩
Yep, I just put in a medium sized order a day or so back too :'(
-
Placed an order, as gift for my name day :D
-
Although I'm sure it will make its way into the characters section of their website in six months time. Nearly every special character has. 🙂
Might give rise to some colourful contemporaries - Barbarossa, Phillip II, Saladin and Blondel, Richard's err, "personal troubadour".....
-
In the comments on Facebook they mention a Balian miniature is being sculpted
-
In the comments on Facebook they mention a Balian miniature is being sculpted
He wasn't Richard I's favourite candidate ;D
-
I love the Richard figure. Over the years I have ended up with a ton of Richard figures. Few have been painted up as Richard. Fortunately for me, most of my figures are painted as Iberians and there were a lot of kings in Iberia. I would also like to see some Third Crusade figures if that means we get some Muslim figures. More than just Saladin because again, over the years....
-
Be interesting to see, if this KS is successful, where they take the range next. The Crusades would certainly be interesting and I would very much like to see Paul's take on some Muslim adversaries for these guys.
Steve
-
Be interesting to see, if this KS is successful, where they take the range next. The Crusades would certainly be interesting and I would very much like to see Paul's take on some Muslim adversaries for these guys.
Steve
I asked this recently:
----
"I am looking forward to it. I think I will go for everything that is currently previewed and probably for all the stretch goals, but at the risk of sounding greedy :-O, I do hope to see a kickstarter 3, 4 and so on that will expand to southern Europe, Byzantium, the various mercenaries, Middle East, Holy land and such (ofcourse all in the same periode.). That would be great and thanks to kickstarter it is maybe a doable undertaking for you and Paul Hicks?"
Andy Hobday:
"That is very much where Paul and I wish to go with it, I am creating the rules in such a way to enable you to play other periods and theatres simply by changing the army list and protagonists. :)"
"It's great that the rules can be used for more periods. For me early 11th century, but seeing the playtesting posts on facebook that period is certainly covered. :-) My wish is that you and Paul will keep making miniatures for the early 13th century era and while making more western europe style mounted knights (with a variaty of horse poses. ;-) ) Also expand to southern Europe and the middle east. that would be fantastic. :-D"
Andy Hobday:
"It sounds like you have been reading out notes. :D"
----
So I think the future for it looks great. ;-)
-
Well great news! I am really more of a minis guy and a painter than a gamer but I am actually looking forward to seeing these rules. (as well as my much needed crossbowmen!)
-
Oh, that’s very interesting. :)
I’m also very interested in the rules. Not played Mortal Gods but heard good things about it. Looking forward to seeing what they come up with.
Steve
-
I have also asked Mr Hobday if templars and Saracens were possibilities, he said absolutely. :-*
-
Going back on a previous question I asked on this thread, how does the armour differ on the barons war minis to what would have been used during the 3rd crusade?
-
Going back on a previous question I asked on this thread, how does the armour differ on the barons war minis to what would have been used during the 3rd crusade?
The overwhelming majority are perfect. The main question mark is over the arrival of the Great Helm. We have some evidence of partially enclosed helms around the time of the Third Crusade, but no indications of the Great Helm. So the one on the right here is fine, but the one on the left questionable for the Third Crusade: https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/barons-war-range/products/mounted-knights-3
There is also some dispute about kettle helms, such as worn by the two left-hand figures here,
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/barons-war-range/products/spearmen-2
That said, the data is limited for this period and an absence of evidence is not evidence of an absence. There is evidence for Great Helms in the early 1200s :D
-
I have also asked Mr Hobday if templars and Saracens were possibilities, he said absolutely. :-*
The existing knights miniatures are arguably fine for Templer brother-knights (and the forthcoming sergeants for brother-serjeants). Twelfth-century frescoes in the Templars' church at Cressac-sur-Charente in France, for example, show warriors wearing white surcoats rather than habits (tunics with scapular and cowl) for battle.
Different miniatures might be needed for Hospitallers though, as they may have retained the habit for use on campaign into the thirteenth century.
-
Cheers Janner much appreciated, it's been a period I've been wanting to get into for a while
-
I have also asked Mr Hobday if templars and Saracens were possibilities, he said absolutely. :-*
This is good to hear.
Steve
-
The existing knights miniatures are arguably fine for Templer brother-knights (and the forthcoming sergeants for brother-serjeants). Twelfth-century frescoes in the Templars' church at Cressac-sur-Charente in France, for example, show warriors wearing white surcoats rather than habits (tunics with scapular and cowl) for battle.
Different miniatures might be needed for Hospitallers though, as they may have retained the habit for use on campaign into the thirteenth century.
The frescoes show the shields with a red cross on a white background. So for late 12th century / early 13th century templar knights there is no evidence of the black / white shield (with the black above the white)?
-
The frescoes show the shields with a red cross on a white background. So for late 12th century / early 13th century templar knights there is no evidence of the black / white shield (with the black above the white)?
The Primitive Rule of the Templars states that shields should be uncovered and 'painted' shields was one of St. Bernard's criticisms of secular knights in 'In Praise of the New Knighthood'. The frescoes, however, indicate that was relaxed at some point prior to the Third Crusade.
As far as I know, images of piebald shields all date from the Thirteenth century. Indeed, the Baucent banner was first described by Jacques of Vitry in the 1220s. However, the decision at the cross-taking ceremony near Gisors in Jan 1188 to allocate different coloured crosses to the crusaders of the kings of France and England, and the Count of Flanders may have influenced a change to piebald shields.
The new master of the Templars, Robert IV of Sablé, was a confidant of Richard the Lionheart and the red cross had been allocated to the Capetians. The white cross of the Hospitallers was given to the Angevin contingent, but Master Garnier of Nablus had previously been prior of England and was also close to the new king of England. For this reason I gave my Third Crusade-era Templars piebald shields.
Hope that helps :)
-
@Janner
Yes, very informative! I also explored you blog and bookmarked it. Your mini's + text about Richard, his retinue and the third crusade will be very helpful when I start painting a third crusade force!
-
@Janner
Yes, very informative! I also explored you blog and bookmarked it. Your mini's + text about Richard, his retinue and the third crusade will be very helpful when I start painting a third crusade force!
I’d best do an update as I’ve learnt so much since then - thanks for the prod :)
-
Second KS has started and has already reached the initial funding goal which is good to see.
Steve
-
Second KS has started and has already reached the initial funding goal which is good to see.
Steve
As a Medieval obsessive with delusions of being an aficionado I am so pleased to see this oft neglected period of Late Medieval Warfare gain so much interest. It's fab 8)
-
Not a period I knew a great deal about. Discovering this range has prompted me to start reading a bit more about it and it is fascinating.
Steve
-
Hi folks,
Bit of a random one…
Despite having no particular interest in collecting or gaming this era, I love what Paul Hicks has done with these minis and so I picked up a few to shoehorn into the 1930’s (who wouldn’t dress up in knights armour to get on a motorbike and sidecar and attack a tank?!!!)
Getting to the point - I’ve signed up for the latest Kickstarter. There’s actually only a handful of minis I actually want (need!!!) but to get them I need to buy a few packs which means I’ll have quite a lot left over that I’ll have no need of.
My plan is to sell them on after. Based on your interest in this period what do you think would be the most popular packs that people would be interested in?
I’ll order these specifically rather than guessing what I think will be easiest to sell on when I make up the cost of my order.
Hopefully that makes sense!
Thank you.
-
Surely you don't need to buy any more packs than you want? As you can pledge a £1.00 and then go in and change your pledge to the actual amount of the packs you want to buy.
-
My problem is twofold:
1) I’m after a figure from Pack ‘A’ and a figure from a pack ‘C’ etc. I can’t get them individually
2) One of the figures I’m specifically after is only available as a free add on to pledges of £40 or more. It can’t be purchased.
-
Oh right, I see. 🙂 I'd say the mounted knights and sergeants would probably be the most popular imho.
-
Thank you.
-
The two Robin Hood set might sell easily, especially if painted up with a few archers
-
Thank you
-
I was wondering about the difference between the more poor knights, the more wealthy knights and Barons, Dukes and Kings. The knights currently sculpted and the knights from the first kickstarter all look wealthy? Or I am mistaken.
I also asked the question on their kickstarter.
How do you think poorer knights are best represented? Would they more be equiped like your mounted sergeants? It seems there was quite a big difference in wealth of equipment between knights, so how can this be represented or wasn't it a thing. I am currently working on the mounted knights of the first kickstarter and they all look well equiped / wealthy.
I read that during the Battle of Bouvines the standardbearer of king Philippe II was a certain Galon de Montigny who supposedly was so poor that he had to sell everthing he had so he could have somekind of useable armour / equipment.
I don't how this could be represented in miniatures as currently there is no difference comparing the armour of the sculpt of prince Louis and all the other knights, some of which are represented as Barons in the first kickstarter.
-
Poorer knights is a bit of a misnomer unless you're referring to a knight that may have lost his kit in a tourney which were very violent events in the 12th Century involving large numbers of knights where a knight could actually be killed if he was unlucky. nothing at all like the High middle ages joust.
If he's lost his kit as a result of being taken fro ransom in such an event then he would have to beg borrow or steal.
-
Poorer knights is a bit of a misnomer unless you're referring to a knight that may have lost his kit in a tourney which were very violent events in the 12th Century involving large numbers of knights where a knight could actually be killed if he was unlucky. nothing at all like the High middle ages joust.
If he's lost his kit as a result of being taken fro ransom in such an event then he would have to beg borrow or steal.
A couple of thousand knights participated in the Bouvines battle and I was wondering, when taken in consideration that there was a difference in wealth and the huge cost of being a knight, how all those knights would look like.
I am backer of the Barons War kickstarter 1 and 2 and it seems that the knight miniatures released in part 1 and now in part 2 represent the more wealthy class of a knight? Or am I mistaken?
-
A couple of thousand knights participated in the Bouvines battle and I was wondering, when taken in consideration that there was a difference in wealth and the huge cost of being a knight, how all those knights would look like.
I am backer of the Barons War kickstarter 1 and 2 and it seems that the knight miniatures released in part 1 and now in part 2 represent the more wealthy class of a knight? Or am I mistaken?
Probably, if a knight was poorer I think he would grab any kit he could prior to going into battle. So, maybe a sergeant of sorts but displaying his coat of arms on his shield only might be a good idea(?).
-
Probably, if a knight was poorer I think he would grab any kit he could prior to going into battle. So, maybe a sergeant of sorts but displaying his coat of arms on his shield only might be a good idea(?).
Thank you! Maybe I will try to do a couple of headswaps to. I think going for some nasal helmets would also do the trick.
-
Thank you! Maybe I will try to do a couple of headswaps to. I think going for some nasal helmets would also do the trick.
You're welcome. Headswaps are a good idea 8)
-
Would the sergeants shield carry any heraldic device? Or would they be of a plain one colour design?
-
Would the sergeants shield carry any heraldic device? Or would they be of a plain one colour design?
If they have not been knighted then they would not have the right to wear a coat of arms.
A livery at best.
-
If they have not been knighted then they would not have the right to wear a coat of arms.
A livery at best.
How do you see the difference early 13th century between heraldry and livery? Just to paint it correctly.
-
How do you see the difference early 13th century between heraldry and livery? Just to paint it correctly.
Heraldry is a catch all term for banners, standards, badges and liveries etc. When we speak broadly of heraldry we are generally talking about a coat of arms ie what a knight would wear when to signify his status and to mark him out for who he actually is as an individual in battle.
A livery was usually given out by a high born noble as a mark of soldiers that belong to him. This was often simply bales of cloth handed out in various colours. A famous example is Edward III handing out bales of green and white cloth to his welsh followers for the Crecy campaign. What these retainers could not do which I see all the time (indeed it was unlawful) was wear their masters coat of arms. Later in the period, such as the Hundred Years War and Wars of the Roses we have evidence of badges being handed out to retainers but I'm not aware of any evidence of this during the 13th Century but I could have overlooked something.
There's an excellent article on 13th C liveries (and a free pdf) here that covers the subject Tonhel:
https://watermark.silverchair.com/279.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAnMwggJvBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJgMIICXAIBADCCAlUGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQM3H8h0X6Ip2Kglui2AgEQgIICJtGVBA3Bhw_5OFEAEyw0NLC23ccR47BBdTs9q9HH53dFuuf034nsPoQcLsv3MGkjEGVzcUag8yW9Lnwbi2XZJOYYqo2b3qbIfvzT5IiWpVg8rDXmmuEZPB0bisMTNuNFuRKq-rndDz3tEtFXgS0sM87ok4VofXy0tWMTtVKLH1pih_xYfZTMGhe0C3D-6TtihMQMG7OdN4Y1V5uqfKXlJ-2naumk-Ajgn3Q9tiH02iBGyKP7BYkjNZvZWNHtzhbUfIkQDwHbF4gkSUV8nqYz0dH950f2J8D6GJlpz-iFb5N6bPM99QzU8o1aK2SWiSpYKy5S_-S6X3i6760e9zjV88R1VtmVn2ILIbxKGCs7QGBlXZPfhYO9FCa2x1jOYGs7FYZMgxFEHxQW11XwRdI8cF6cM2Sh-Qu47D7LXrDFZGf129omDRu1Wr4QYTNAwKnsVKvISG-vT5zzHar63tiiwVjOD6NkMewM_crtx9LohEWv13VvpjeXvTQlIEyBBX-LJJQxCi0fij_BN87f54EUSH0qdK9ub7kxhov_UGb_IwaxfB_dDyfc8N8B79AI9_X2Ab7k2U5Uk8DAOhAEd1bUWEV94cJtBdJ3EiquFXdNEOHWhssOxtSsYzNSm7MOnrg8KrJ0ti_pGX0ltt7sDq_cOXXWNbpEzI2dDmF21-Ba-elu5oJL9gem6yys0PziNRuYA1JTRQ3UjzbaaCcfOKAimr-s8c4lkPw (https://watermark.silverchair.com/279.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAnMwggJvBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggJgMIICXAIBADCCAlUGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQM3H8h0X6Ip2Kglui2AgEQgIICJtGVBA3Bhw_5OFEAEyw0NLC23ccR47BBdTs9q9HH53dFuuf034nsPoQcLsv3MGkjEGVzcUag8yW9Lnwbi2XZJOYYqo2b3qbIfvzT5IiWpVg8rDXmmuEZPB0bisMTNuNFuRKq-rndDz3tEtFXgS0sM87ok4VofXy0tWMTtVKLH1pih_xYfZTMGhe0C3D-6TtihMQMG7OdN4Y1V5uqfKXlJ-2naumk-Ajgn3Q9tiH02iBGyKP7BYkjNZvZWNHtzhbUfIkQDwHbF4gkSUV8nqYz0dH950f2J8D6GJlpz-iFb5N6bPM99QzU8o1aK2SWiSpYKy5S_-S6X3i6760e9zjV88R1VtmVn2ILIbxKGCs7QGBlXZPfhYO9FCa2x1jOYGs7FYZMgxFEHxQW11XwRdI8cF6cM2Sh-Qu47D7LXrDFZGf129omDRu1Wr4QYTNAwKnsVKvISG-vT5zzHar63tiiwVjOD6NkMewM_crtx9LohEWv13VvpjeXvTQlIEyBBX-LJJQxCi0fij_BN87f54EUSH0qdK9ub7kxhov_UGb_IwaxfB_dDyfc8N8B79AI9_X2Ab7k2U5Uk8DAOhAEd1bUWEV94cJtBdJ3EiquFXdNEOHWhssOxtSsYzNSm7MOnrg8KrJ0ti_pGX0ltt7sDq_cOXXWNbpEzI2dDmF21-Ba-elu5oJL9gem6yys0PziNRuYA1JTRQ3UjzbaaCcfOKAimr-s8c4lkPw)
Hope that helps?
-
@Atheling, it helps, I think. :-)
Thus I have a wealthly lord that is in service of Baron "X". This wealthy lord has let say 4 household knights. The lord his heraldry is dark red with a white horizontal line. How would his 4 household knights look like, how would his sergeants look like and finally how would his spearmen, archers and etc look like. Timeframe "early 13th century". :)
-
If you haven't got a specific reference for the colour of a livery then I'd go with the main colours of the nobles heraldry. This is probably not at all accurate as liveries were not necessarily related to a coat of arms, but, it is good enough given the lack of evidence.
-
Would this range be also useable for the Second Barons War? Would any developments in armour or weaponry by the time of the second war only really apply to knights?
-
Would this range be also useable for the Second Barons War? Would any developments in armour or weaponry by the time of the second war only really apply to knights?
To be honest the beginnings of the 11th Century is where armour technology started upping it's game, so's to speak.
The most obvious features of a "knight" between the First and Second Baron's War would be the replacement of the Enclosed helmet with the Great Helm that was common by 1240.
Less obvious would be better coats of plates normally but not exclusively covered by the surcoat.
That's just two off the top of my head.
As for the lesser gentry and the plebs? They too would see a growth in their defences but at a lesser rate and probably piecemeal as armour was horrendously expensive. Having said that, a gambeson and some mail was probably universal among most retinues.
-
Thank you Atheling.