Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Khurasan Miniatures on March 03, 2020, 06:14:19 PM
-
This will be our first 28mm historical range, and the first codes have now been made. They are for knights from the 1160s to around Jaffa, so say 1192 or so. In this period the basic knight was in fairly complete chainmail, not yet wearing a surcoat, and with an openfaced helmet. There were of course both surcoats and habits (for the military orders) to be found, and they will certainly be made, but the basic building blocks first.
So far three codes are basically done --
Knights no surcoat, lance up
Knights no surcoat, lance 45 degrees
Banneret or other commander plus musician, no surcoat
The three images show them, then the horses as modified. I had one test figurine made but wasn't happy with the horses legs, so I had that modified on the horses (the knight models are sitting on the unaltered dollies).
Next I think will be foot with spears and foot with crossbows.
Also a question -- on lances, do gamers expect to receive these in pewter from the manufacturer, or do they just supply their own? I had a lance made for the test figure, and while it scaled correctly, it bent extremely easily, despite being pewter. I had the sculptor go up in thickness to compensate, but frankly if I were painting and gaming with them I think I'd just use brass lances.
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/third1.jpg)
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/third2.jpg)
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/third3.jpg)
then the horses:
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/third4.jpg)
-
Looks good! :) I am looking forward to it!
Edit: About the spears. I wouldn't bother in making pewter spears. Most people will replace it anyway. I will probably use Fireforge games 8cm plastic lances.
-
Thanks! But people will be ok receiving knights without lances? ???
-
Thanks! But people will be ok receiving knights without lances? ???
That I don't know. ;-) I do expect that most people will replace their pewter lances.
-
Well pewter lances (or spears or pikes) are easy to paint up (because they are already there and need no tinkering), but suck.
They will bend and eventually break. If I can do it I try to exchange them with wire lances, especially at smaller scales.
-
I agree Divismal -- I was very unhappy with the test lance. Ok, I've had a thicker one made, maybe I'll sell them at basically cost, as optional add-ons for people who really want them.
-
I agree Divismal -- I was very unhappy with the test lance. Ok, I've had a thicker one made, maybe I'll sell them at basically cost, as optional add-ons for people who really want them.
Don't make the hand for the lance to big / open, maybe closed so people need to drill a hole for their lances. As most people don't want to use to thick lances. It looks bad.
-
But people will be ok receiving knights without lances? ???
Of course! These are wonderful and I would be happy enough to give them steel wire lances from Northstar.
-
Of course! These are wonderful and I would be happy enough to give them steel wire lances from Northstar.
Yeah, me too. Wire spears are actually my preference. Though, as an exception to the rule, somehow the Perry's do cast stiffer less prone to breakage spears and lances.
If it was for a later period where the shape began to change then I would almost certainly want them to be included.
-
Also a question -- on lances, do gamers expect to receive these in pewter from the manufacturer, or do they just supply their own?
Dissenting voice,
I expect them to be included, and I am mightily pissed at manufacturers that does not.
So please include lances/spear, I did not have issues in my life with them. If properly cared they rarely bend or break... I also never found them looking bad at game distance, maybe on blowout pictures... also pewter lances are easier to cut to desired length than steel ones.
on the other hand please to not give us solid hands, they are a core to drill.
But I am speaking for myself, I never believed in people claiming to know what the majority of a community wants (usually they are called politicians!).
And as I said I am a dissenter.... ;D
-
Food for thought here -- hmmm...
-
The figures look very nice - and are proportioned like real human beings which is a winning point in my book. The 1150-1200 era is also very poorly covered by manufacturers, which means your range will cover a major gap.
My only reservation would be the chainmail, which does not look very textured : I know most sculptors tend to overdo it for greater ease of painting but the coats of mail on the miniatures look quite smooth. Unless of course it's just the pictures.
-
Food for thought here -- hmmm...
I prefer hands that have to be drilled. It doesn't take very long, seconds in fact.
I think the main thing is to design the hands so that the spears are partially clutched by the miniature. In other words, not so open handed that it's possible to knock a well glued spear out of the hand by accident.
-
My only reservation would be the chainmail, which does not look very textured : I know most sculptors tend to overdo it for greater ease of painting but the coats of mail on the miniatures look quite smooth. Unless of course it's just the pictures.
IMO it's superb sculpting, yes it's fine but chainmail was, and I think it looks very realistic.
Here's a paintup of an early test model:
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/third5.jpg)
A bit closer to actual size: ;)
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/third6.jpg)
-
These look great - I look forward to seeing more.
for me, it's another vote for no pewter lances - steel lances all the way! And either closed hands to drill out, or nearly-closed ones. Not big wide open hands which appear to hold the lances to the palm magnetically/magically.
And I like the mail. It does appear finer than most mail we see - and I like that! Mail would appear almost smooth at any sort of distance wouldn't it? Your painted example seems spot on in this regard.
-
These look very nice. I would buy them with or without lances. Maybe make it an option when you buy...?
-
That sounds like a plan!
-
A few comments:
- the riders look awesome
- i was going to say the horses look kind of bland (not enough musculature), but it looks great painted up, so what do I know?
- I also like hands that have to be drilled out to hold a spear. It's just a lot more firm on a finished model.
- I only ever use wire spears. I think if I were in the business, I would supply pewter spears. I don't know how your business operates, but if you could provide a way to let people placing orders opt out to the pewter spears that might be best for everyone? I would gladly check a box that allowed me to opt out.
I wish you success with this range of figures and I hope it leads to you doing more in this scale!
-
A few comments:
- i was going to say the horses look kind of bland (not enough musculature), but it looks great painted up, so what do I know?
I think it's a matter of what we are used to. Even in 28mm, there's a lot of exaggeration in the bodies of horses sculpted for wargaming. These horses are I think actually pretty accurate in terms of musculature.
(http://khurasanminiatures.tripod.com/third7.jpg)
-
Lovely looking figures, and I was going to say how good the horses look! lol
Really smooth, sleek and horsey looking. You see some shocking looking horses in 28mm. These look very good to me.
Another vote for steel lances too. They just look so much better. I grew up with Minifigs with their famous cast-on ‘Telegraph pole’ lances. Never again for me...
-
Thanks for that, and extremely pleased to read you like the models!
-
Thanks for that, and extremely pleased to read you like the models!
Have you got any of the infantry types on the go at present?
If possible it would be great to get a larger view of the range :)
-
Amazing work sir
-
Have you got any of the infantry types on the go at present?
If possible it would be great to get a larger view of the range :)
The range will be built in stages. These basic knight codes first, then four poses of spearmen and four poses of crossbowmen. Those will be made this upcoming month. Then ... I’ll have to see. Perhaps:
Military orders in habits
Knights in enclosed helmets
Knights in surcoats
High command
Bow armed infantry
and from there, we’ll see :)
-
The range will be built in stages. These basic knight codes first, then four poses of spearmen and four poses of crossbowmen. Those will be made this upcoming month. Then ... I’ll have to see. Perhaps:
Military orders in habits
Knights in enclosed helmets
Knights in surcoats
High command
Bow armed infantry
and from there, we’ll see :)
Thanks for that- I look forward to seeing more 8)
-
I have and will continue to paint many medieval 28mm miniatures and have a couple of observations.
I agree that the best hands for receiving weapons are closes fists for drilling - they make for a much better bond and don't need anchoring at a second point much of the time allowing greater flexibility in posing.
I'd recommend casting spear heads and lance heads (depending on type) separately which can be fixed to steel wire by the builder/painter. I've made hundreds of spears over the years from steel wire of varying thicknesses depending on what I'm after but the heads (whilst passable) are never as good as cast heads.
The horses look just fine to me.
I would experiment with a more exaggerated mail effect. They are likely more accurate with that level of detail depicted but many people will likely not want to change their techniques in painting.
-
The range will be built in stages. These basic knight codes first, then four poses of spearmen and four poses of crossbowmen. Those will be made this upcoming month. Then ... I’ll have to see. Perhaps:
Military orders in habits
Knights in enclosed helmets
Knights in surcoats
High command
Bow armed infantry
and from there, we’ll see :)
Military orders would be fantastic.
Imo your order seems great and than if those are done start again with new poses of basic knights, than 4 new poses of spearmen and etc.. .
I am certainly will order when available, but isn't there an European / UK based dealer?
-
I agree that the best hands for receiving weapons are closes fists for drilling - they make for a much better bond and don't need anchoring at a second point much of the time allowing greater flexibility in posing.
Just out of curiosity, what's the difficulty with using plyers and a cloth to bend a hand cast in a C closed to your satisfaction? You use the cloth to prevent the plyers from marring the details on the hand.
I'd recommend casting spear heads and lance heads (depending on type) separately which can be fixed to steel wire by the builder/painter. I've made hundreds of spears over the years from steel wire of varying thicknesses depending on what I'm after but the heads (whilst passable) are never as good as cast heads.
That's a good idea. I had considered it but thought that it would require a pewter pennant or something to provide a firm fix to the wire/rod, and then it would also require that a certain specified rod size be used. I'll definitely look into that.
I would experiment with a more exaggerated mail effect. They are likely more accurate with that level of detail depicted but many people will likely not want to change their techniques in painting.
That would require that all of the masters that were made, and this first set of models, be redone, in other words, starting all over again. It's just not viable.
Thanks for your thoughts.
-
I think drilling will result in a better and nicer result. Certainly if you don't want to thick spears/lances.
I don't mind the mail visually. It's something I will need to experience myself. What I do find important is that this sculpting method for mail will be consistent for all the models you will do for this timeframe.
Do you have an ETA for the first batch?
-
Lovely miniatures :-* The mail is spot on (reminds me of Tom Meier’s work).
-
KM,
Not all of my open hand casting experiences have been bad ones. It seems to depend on how crisply they are cast. Sometimes (often) the palm of the hands can have quite a build up of - let's call it flash (metal). Depending on the alloy this can require quite a bit of cutting away, filing to widen the receiver sufficiently to take the wire. The worst offenders for this in my experience is Gripping Beast (a range I adore by the way). I end up effectively drilling them anyway.
I wasn't thinking about spear/lance heads with pennons - that might prove difficult. I was assuming some order of drilling to better seat a preferred wire thickness would always be required.
I failed to mention I think your proposed range fills a gap very nicely and it properly expands the possibilities for the medieval wargamer. Many thanks.