Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Pikes, Muskets and Flouncy Shirts => Topic started by: Shanec on May 19, 2020, 11:01:40 PM
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Hi folks,
Looking for suggestions from the collective wisdom as my search skills here have not helped me!
Planning to launch into 10mm for Thirty Years War and have purchased a few packs of Pendraken and Old Glory. Any 10mm manufacturers other than these two suitable for this period??
I'm really struggling to settle on a rule set and was wondering if anyone could recommend a set?
Prefer larger bases so that I can represent masses of troops such as the earlier Tercio formations as that really brings 10mm into it's own. Looking to represent larger battles so not looking for skirmish/large skirmish level.
Any suggestions or photos of your stuff to inspire me much appreciated!
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You could try 'Twilight of Divine Right' for large battles - https://www.wfgamers.org.uk/resources/C18/Twilight/ToDR (https://www.wfgamers.org.uk/resources/C18/Twilight/ToDR)
There is a scenario book for TYW and another one with another 15 battles is on the way.
There are various game reports on this site - https://www.tabletopstories.net/language/en/2019/06/twilight-of-divine-right-review-and-battle-report/ (https://www.tabletopstories.net/language/en/2019/06/twilight-of-divine-right-review-and-battle-report/)
This is some photos of large units in 6mm but 10mm would be similar - https://www.wfgamers.org.uk/general-wargames/battle-of-lutzen (https://www.wfgamers.org.uk/general-wargames/battle-of-lutzen)
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10mm ECW is fairly popular, and includes much you can use for 30YW. I have some Minifigs in my ECW armies, and Irregular Miniatures have a range too, which I reluctantly use since I really like pikemen to have weapons sloping forward. You should be aware that IM are a good deal more expensive, rather flimsy, and (three times in my experience) not to be counted on to arrive at all.
Pendraken is always my first choice, however (and Newline when they have the period I'm doing).
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I've got something similar on my to do list except in 6mm, plumped on Tercio for rules.
Lancer do an ECW range that might be usable and I know this isn't much help but I'm positive there's a European company, German maybe, who do TYW in 10mm - the pendraken forum might be a good place to ask as well.
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A great scale, and lots of overalap with ECW figures.
As well as all the manufacturers listed above, also worth looking at Lancer.
Rules wise, worth a look at For King and Parliament - focused on ECW, but gives a good game, and someone has probably already looked at 30YW mods.
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Many thanks for the replies - definitely some ideas I will follow up on.
WFGamers - love the photos of that game - inspirational stuff!
Frank Xerox - forgot about the Pendraken forum! I have a copy of Tercios - do they play well?
I see there's a new ruleset - In Deo Veritas - has anyone tried them yet?
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Tercios - I haven't actually played a game yet, or bought any figures for that matter. I looked at some reports online and they get a good press but no not yet; they're on my to do list...
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There is a video for In Deo Veritas - probably worth a watch, but I have to say it did very little to sell the rules to me.
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Maybe sigur could help: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=117221.msg1468513#msg1468513
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Maybe sigur could help: http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=117221.msg1468513#msg1468513
Thank you Batu - that is gold!
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I’m looking at Warlords Pike and Shotte for my 10mm TYW project
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Hi Shanec
I’m trying to maintain a list of rules for the period on my blog here:
https://theviaregia.blogspot.com/p/17th-century-wargames-rules.html
If you’re looking for whole units on a base then definitely worth looking at For King and Parliament, and In Deo Veritas.
I’ve played FK&P a few times and find it a fast and fun set. The only thing it doesn’t cover for the TYW is evading Croats , but some official amendments are expected soon.
IDV are quite new but they do have lots of picture of 10mm in them. Not played them yet.
My blog has lots of pictures of TYW figures but all in 28mm scales.
Looking forward to seeing how your collection develops. :)
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Yes, this project will be an interesting one to watch.
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Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen.
Analysis paralysis at present I'm afraid - still looking at rules to decide basing (also distracted by peer pressure to get my WW2 stuff ready for a future game)!
That's a great list on your blog Mr Friends of General Haig! Had not heard of several of those. One you may have missed is Tercios from Liber Militum - they look like one of the front runners for 10mm.
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Great suggestion - thanks Shanec! :)
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Watch Newlines. They're about to launch a 10mm ECW range that might be useful.
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Watch Newlines. They're about to launch a 10mm ECW range that might be useful.
Ha, there's a good nugget of info! I had a look. They look rather nice, especially the fact that they got pikemen in different poses (downside is the cast-on pikes, which I'm not a fan of, but that's just subjective stuff). They don't seem to be on the pricey side, but I think they're pretty much on the level of Pendraken's current pricing.
Shame I only discovered this thread now! I do like 10mm TYW. :)
My collection's mainly Old Glory and Pendraken with a few Irregular Miniatures figures strewn in. The latter can be ordered individually, so they're great for getting those additional musicians, commanders, lifeguard figures for commander bases, etc. Irregular are a bit more delicate and smaller than Pendraken, but will mix well into a unit at arm's length (with cavalry models you may have to model a little bump onto the base to put an Irregular figure with a unit of Pendraken minis).
In general I use Old Glory for pikemen (no cast-on pikes, rank up nicely due to being cast in strips), and a mix of Old Glory and Pendraken for musketeers. OG will actually do for musketeers as well though. In general OG and Pendraken mix nicely, which is good for giving cavalry units a bit more variety in poses.
More recently I added a whole lot of Lancer Miniatures to my collection. Initially because I backed their Kickstarter to support a new 10mm ECW range, then I got another batch a year later or so. These are really nice figures, but stylistically way different to Pendraken and OG, since they're really, really buff (no pun intended). They have a pleasant look and are a joy to paint, but in terms of proportions they're much in line with Lego figures rather than people. I'll use either in games (Lancer that is, not Lego figures :P ), but I wouldn't put Lancer and others in the same unit. On the table they'll look fine next to a unit of Pendraken or OG figures.
Here's my rules suggestions:
.) Twilight of Divine Right (my favourite right now. Rekindled my love for the period last year, got me to paint like 20 new units and play several games. Great in terms of getting the period 'right', I think. Lots of attention to detail, probably more for people who are familiar with the period)
.) In Deo Veritas (only tested it once so far, and I fully intend to give it another go next week and finally get that review done. Surely less daunting to new players than Twilight of Divine Right. Lots of good elements like orders being dealt out to wings in secret, focus on morale rather than causalties, etc. Not the easiest rules to navigate, but I think they play nice and swift.)
.) Baroque (the Impetus-based one. Can't go wrong with Impetus, can you. It's not a very 'glitzy' set of rules, but never let me down)
.) Pike&Shotte (it works as intended. The main gripe is probably the army lists, which I think CAN be used, but are to be taken with a grain of salt)
The top three use simple basing, and when it comes to formation changes most you'll have to bother with is "line" or "column". So basing won't be much of a problem. P&S is a tiny bit more finicky in that regard (not the least due to the interesting design choice of treating pike and musket as separate units, but there's house rules to remedy that). I started out with P&S in mind and a massive love for the look of Warmaster, so my basing was influenced by that. Pikes on 40x20mm bases (1, 2 or 3 in a row to a unit, depending on timeframe and size of battle), musketeer sleeves on 30x20mm bases to either side of the pikemen for a total frontage of 10cm for infantry. Cavarly I put on 20x40mm bases (lengthways), 4 bases next to each other to a unit, for a total frontage of 8cm. Light artillery's sitting on 40x20mm, medium and heavy on 40x40mm. Many rules sets use "half a unit's frontage" as the basic measuring unit, and I usually calculate with 5cm for that. Nice and metric. :D
You can see my collection in action here, along with a rules review of Twilight of Divine Right: https://www.tabletopstories.net/language/en/?s=twilight (https://www.tabletopstories.net/language/en/?s=twilight)
Rules sets I have to try:
.) Tilly's Very Bad Day (available online for free. IIRC it's deemed 'finished' by the author now and available on his blog. Also a more abstracted approach to keep things simple and to the point).
.) Father Tilly 2 (that one's been around for quite a while, but the local 15mm guys love it. Gotta try it some time. I actually bought Father Tilly 4(?) a few years ago, but never got around to trying it. Honestly, the focus shifting to 28mm figures turned me off it a bit)
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I've got quite a lot of Newline Hellenic pikemen; though cast on, the weapons are pretty sturdy. I use IM ECW pikemen because I like the pose, but their pikes are flimsy (often their ankles too), the proportions suggest Thalidomide was around earlier than we realise, and they're frogging expensive, pardon the language.
Oh, and watch out for the Newline sales - usually have a four-for-three around the end of the year.
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I've got quite a lot of Newline Hellenic pikemen; though cast on, the weapons are pretty sturdy. I use IM ECW pikemen because I like the pose, but their pikes are flimsy (often their ankles too), the proportions suggest Thalidomide was around earlier than we realise, and they're frogging expensive, pardon the language.
Oh, and watch out for the Newline sales - usually have a four-for-three around the end of the year.
Yeah, to be honest I never got any with cast-on pikes. On 6mm I've seen it work well (Baccus), but with 10mm I'm too worried it won't.
Thanks for the info on the sales!