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Other Stuff => General Wargames and Hobby Discussion => Topic started by: Harry Faversham on June 04, 2020, 12:24:45 PM

Title: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Harry Faversham on June 04, 2020, 12:24:45 PM
With plenty of time for cogitating, I've laid one...
Does this exotic creature exist in real life? A wargamer with no interest in painting and basing figures, building terrain or anything creative attached to our hobby. A bloke who just wants to play wargames, buys everything ready made and painted including figures, and gets to it?

???
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: v_lazy_dragon on June 04, 2020, 12:58:03 PM
Not quite - but I know quite a few have no interest in painting and only limited interests in modelling. Bung em together and get them on the table.
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: FifteensAway on June 04, 2020, 01:51:34 PM
One semi-local gamer, about an hours drive away, comes pretty darn close to that.  Of course, he lost his entire collection in the terrible fire in Paradise, California a couple of years ago so I'm guessing going forward that will be his standard option, everything ready to go.  Pretty devastating to just retire and have your whole world burn down.  He's been pretty resilient and climbed back into the hobby - bought quite a load of plastics from some poor old guy who descended into the throws of dementia and his wife has been selling stuff off for cheap.  At least she didn't toss it all!
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Plynkes on June 04, 2020, 01:56:17 PM
My mate is like this, I'd say even more so, because he doesn't bother with that extra step of acquiring painted figures, he will happily game with figures in any condition. He really doesn't care if the figures are miniature masterpieces, basic tabletop standard, or even entirely unpainted. He is not interested in the modelling side of the hobby in the slightest, is entirely indifferent to the aesthetics of a game, and yet he loves gaming and game systems. He slaps on the most cursory of paint-jobs (or none at all) and is perfectly happy with that.

I find it kind of refreshing, as I won't actually get to the tabletop stage until everything is perfectly finished off, and I am so slow that this only happens once in a blue moon. My friend, however, is untroubled by such problems. He buys what he wants and then games with it. I think he gets more out of the hobby than I do, sometimes.



Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: CHALLY on June 04, 2020, 02:03:13 PM
My mate is one. He buys everything ready painted. The game is important to him but research more so. He is ex RAF Regiment though which says it all! 😩🤣🤣🤣👍
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Harry Faversham on June 04, 2020, 02:07:11 PM
Quote from: Plynkes on June 04, 2020, 01:56:17 PM
He buys what he wants and then games with it. I think he gets more out of the hobby than I do, sometimes.

How refreshing, I've never met your mate, but I hate him already!
I'm like you, and spend so much time fartarsing about, that when I finally decree a unit ready for the Trooper to the Front...
I've forgotten where the Wargames Emporium is!

:?
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: SteveBurt on June 04, 2020, 03:41:37 PM
Brigadier Peter Young bought all his stuff ready painted, I believe. He was more interested in the wargame than the modelling
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Calimero on June 04, 2020, 04:24:43 PM

It might not be as uncommon as we think. I know a few people that would love to approach wargaming like you described it. The only things that prevent them for doing it is, I think, the lack of necessary funds… That explained why we see unpainted figures on green painted table with a bunch of crudely cut foam pieces as hills.
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Elbows on June 04, 2020, 06:29:20 PM
I think there are a lot of people like this, though I don't know if they'd be considered actual wargamers.  Heaps of younger people who play stuff like Warhammer 40K to the exclusion of any other tabletop games express zero interest in any creative/hobby elements of the "hobby".

I don't mean this as an insult, but it's similar to people who buy an Xbox or Playstation to play one game only.  I wouldn't say they're actively interested in wargaming as a hobby, but they like 40K (maybe because their friends play it), and playing the tabletop game is the most common method of partaking in that interest.

I know several local players entirely happy to play with unpainted (sometimes unfinished) miniatures over the laziest/poorest terrain and it's of no concern to them. 
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: dadlamassu on June 04, 2020, 06:49:17 PM
My most frequent wargame opponents have never bought a figure for themselves relying entirely on my purchases.  They have painted some in a fair to middling standard that both they and I like especially for goblins and zombies.  They love playing games and get a lot of enjoyment from the hobby.

Did I mention that they are my grandchildren aged 6-10? 


Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Mammoth miniatures on June 04, 2020, 07:09:42 PM
Warmachine used to have a big audience like this - When i worked in a store the players would come in to do tournements and some of them would just ask for a blank picnic table, then they'se lay out black paper "zones" for terrain and use empty bases as miniatures.
The privateer drive towards competitive play did alot to damage the idea of a holistic hobby in that community.
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: FramFramson on June 04, 2020, 07:13:08 PM
I used to play tons of Mage Knight (still have my collection) and that catered very specifically to that crowd. It was the first minis game I ever bought into in large quantities.

Of course I went on to repaint and even replace some minis, and well...

I will say that I've never gotten into mass battles after that. Everything I've done since then is skirmish - I have nothing against traditional mass-battles games at all, but I could quite simply never paint a mass battle army (forces of about 30-ish figures are probably my maximum), as I'm far too obsessive about each individual figure. 
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: fred on June 04, 2020, 07:27:33 PM
One of our group has little to no interest in painting and modelling. He will base stuff but tends to get it painted by one of the other guys (for payment). For a cowboy gang, he had basecoated and painted one colour. After several games of this, the other 3 of us playing painted the figures during a game.

His creative interest is in rules and army lists.
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Banderium on June 04, 2020, 08:20:18 PM
I hate painting, basing, building and modeling.
I love playing with beautifully painted miniatures on detailed terrain and I love too the "literary" part of the hobby (researching and reading sources but also building my imaginary settings).
Because I rarely have the money to pay for a decent painting service, I have to paint the miniatures by myself, but it's a torture.
I still consider myself a wargamer and not a rare one (in my club there are people that stopped playing with miniatures and are now happily playing board wargames).
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Sunjester on June 04, 2020, 08:25:20 PM
Quote from: Calimero on June 04, 2020, 04:24:43 PM
It might not be as uncommon as we think. I know a few people that would love to approach wargaming like you described it. The only things that prevent them for doing it is, I think, the lack of necessary funds… That explained why we see unpainted figures on green painted table with a bunch of crudely cut foam pieces as hills.
I think you are describing me. Painting and modelling is a necessary evil, something I have to do in order to play the games I want to play.

Having said that, I've increased my painting output during the lockdown period and realised that I quite enjoyed painting some figures, so long as I didn't feel that I needed to paint them for any ongoing project!  ???
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: jambo1 on June 05, 2020, 06:46:47 AM
I have grown to enjoy painting, very relaxing after a busy work week, not keen at all on kitbashing or making buildings etc, my games board has a mat I throw over it, all terrain is ready built and usually ready painted. I guess I am close to the description that Harry used in original post, not quite tho!! :)
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Robosmith on June 05, 2020, 08:40:12 AM
Quote from: Elbows on June 04, 2020, 06:29:20 PM
I think there are a lot of people like this, though I don't know if they'd be considered actual wargamers.  Heaps of younger people who play stuff like Warhammer 40K to the exclusion of any other tabletop games express zero interest in any creative/hobby elements of the "hobby".

I don't mean this as an insult, but it's similar to people who buy an Xbox or Playstation to play one game only.  I wouldn't say they're actively interested in wargaming as a hobby, but they like 40K (maybe because their friends play it), and playing the tabletop game is the most common method of partaking in that interest.

I know several local players entirely happy to play with unpainted (sometimes unfinished) miniatures over the laziest/poorest terrain and it's of no concern to them.

I've noticed there's usually 1 or 2 "I'm just here because my boyfriend / friends are" types who are very similar. They're not invested in the hobby as anything more than a way to spend time with someone who is invested in it. I never understood it myself.

Quote from: Mammoth miniatures on June 04, 2020, 07:09:42 PM
Warmachine used to have a big audience like this - When i worked in a store the players would come in to do tournements and some of them would just ask for a blank picnic table, then they'se lay out black paper "zones" for terrain and use empty bases as miniatures.
The privateer drive towards competitive play did alot to damage the idea of a holistic hobby in that community.

I've never heard of using paper models with warmachine but I remember the terrain becoming a problem. I wonder if we will see more 2D terrain appearing as more and more larger models are appearing in games. No one wants to try balancing their giant fire demon on a hill side.
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: N.C.S.E on June 05, 2020, 09:27:59 AM
Back when the WWPD podcast was still being made (let's say 2012-13?) there was one of the crew who usually had his stuff painted and preferred to just play the game (Flame of War as I recall). It was quite a thing when he did begin to paint again. Even the guys who did paint weren't huge fans.

I myself used to play a guy who was afraid to mess up his figures so usually just played with them undercoated in black. Since I was new my guys were questionably painted, but it remained that I still made the attempt and slowly improved. These days everyone I play with paints their own stuff, even if they're playing a different game when one guy provides both sides, we all have our specialities. :)
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Harry Faversham on June 05, 2020, 09:41:48 AM
Quote from: N.C.S.E on June 05, 2020, 09:27:59 AM
I myself used to play a guy who was afraid to mess up his figures so usually just played with them undercoated in black.

Best one yet, love it...
Paint 'em black so they don't look crap on the table, magic!!!

 :-*
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: warwell on June 05, 2020, 10:15:14 AM
Quote
I think there are a lot of people like this, though I don't know if they'd be considered actual wargamers.

Why not? They are still playing games about war. War + gamer = wargamer.
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Bearwoodman on June 05, 2020, 10:22:16 AM
A friend of mine mentioned a while back that his Dad had a collection of figures but had not painted any himself - all were commission painted.

Come to think of it I am not sure whether his Dad actually wargamed with them or whether they were just for display - therefore possibly falling into a separate sub-category of hobbyist: the pure Miniatures Collector!
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: N.C.S.E on June 05, 2020, 12:16:16 PM
Quote from: Harry Faversham on June 05, 2020, 09:41:48 AM
Best one yet, love it...
Paint 'em black so they don't look crap on the table, magic!!!

 :-*

I'm ashamed to say I never thought of the irony. :P It was more that his dad painted him for him so they'd look good. The problem was that his dad (being actually the one making money to fund all this kid's warhammer) was around very little so there'd be one or two perfectly painted ones with say 15 undercoated ones. I was a kid too but had to fund this stuff myself - so always had less than the other kid, and the other guy's stuff always the elite troops (I had my plucky Empire full of normal dudes and he had High Elves, so you can imagine the problem). No amount of trying to bring points into the game would make him have less than his whole collection - so it was always an unfair fight. IGOUGO and Warhammer of all kinds was ruined for me as a consequence. He had good dice rolls as well, so he'd always go first, which meant the effective units of my army were always dead by the time I got to do anything.

There's a reason I'm part of a better group now.
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Davout on June 05, 2020, 03:16:26 PM
In my little group of 4 we have a mix bag.

Gamer 1 (me): Prefers to play with painted figures, paints to a "good" table top standard, enjoys building and painting terrain and provides most if not all the terrain for the group.

Gamer 2: Is an artist (in real life as well) and paints to a very, very high standard. He prefer to play with painted figs but his production rate is low because he demands perfection. He has terrain but hasn't painted it in years.

Gamer 3: Loves to build and convert models and is very good at that aspect of the hobby. Keeps saying he's going to paint his stuff but it's been 20 years and so far he's painted one army to a three color minimum standard.

Gamer 4: Loves to play the game, loves to build lists and discover cool new combinations. Is a very good player. He's stuck his models together but has never shown the desire to paint a thing. His vast grey plastic hoard dominates the table but will never win the beauty pageant.

The variety of ways you can engage with this hobby is one of its best aspects. Yes, I would love to play every game on a cool table with painted miniatures on both sides but If I waited for that I'd play very few games.

The time spent with friends having fun and sharing a real experience far outweighs any other aspect of the hobby. 
Title: Re: A Wargames fenonamumm...
Post by: Aerendar Valandil on June 05, 2020, 03:55:04 PM
We have one at our club who seldom or never paints a mini. He pays others to paint his models or borrows, which is OK for all of us. Nice guy, nice gamer, nothing to complain about.