Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Corso on June 05, 2020, 05:30:23 PM
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I was inspired about the title from the start of The Guns of Navarone movie, where the first airfield is listed as being ‘Somewhere in the Middle East’. The historical period is different, but not the location.
When Victrix released the first images of their Persians kits, I immediately liked them. While researching the late Achaemenid Persians, I discovered some curious things. They divided their empire in 20 major satrapies and many minor ones. The nobility vied for power and acted much like Game of Thrones – assassinations, betrayal, poisoners getting poisoned by their own poison, civil war……
So I put on the shoes of one of the many satraps, whose seat of power was in the Middle East. If he was wise, this satrap would strengthen his position by hiring mercenaries. Greek hoplites were the best heavy infantry available and recruiting them would establish a good base around which an army could be assembled. Rumours of a massive macedonian army invading Anatolia would have been a good reason to open the coffers. Hoplites could also serve as a more reliable bodyguard, obviously loyalty bought by hard cash.
This is the first group of hoplites done, one-third of a unit. I’m doing them for hail caesar. I have more hoplites in progress, another base and a command group base.
All models are victrix – hypaspist bodies and successor heads with LBMS shield transfers.
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Very nice. Who makes the shield transfers?
EDIT: Ah. LDMS.
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Nice bases. (Nice figures and nice bases, but I have a question about the bases ;))
You've achieved an arid but not monotone look to the bases. Care to share the formula?
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While we are picking your brain how did you achieve such great results with the shield transfers? I usually struggle with round transfers. They never attach all the way around.
Very nice looking miniatures.
Cheers
Erik
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Those are excellent!!
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Thanks all
Aphillathehun - for basing, I glue sand and rocks. Painted the sand citadel Zandri Dust then drybrused Morghast Bone, Ushabti Bone and Flayed One Flesh. Rocks painted reaper hd Ashen Brown and drybrushed Ushabti Bone. Rim painted Rhinox Hide (citadel). Used a mix of the following tufts from gamers grass: Mixed Green, Autumn and Dry.
Erik - they're not easy! I centre the transfer, then dab a little water. After a while the paper slides. Now the difficult part - use a paper napkin to press the transfer moving from the centre to the edges. Water is squeezed out in this manner and they adhere better. Then once dry a coat of citadel lahmian medium to ensure it stays there and it also helps to minimise shrinkage.
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Really nice, and brilliantly clean.
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Drool. I admire your brass/bronze work and will repeat praise of those beautiful shields. I also love your focus on one Satrap. Since going to Oman recently (got back before the world shut down) I've been dabbling with a similar focus on medieval/Arabian skirmish army. Nice to break out from our typical European focus.
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Very nice job on always useful troops.
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Nice work - when do we get to see more? :D
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Thanks!
@UGeneral - the bronze was done by first applying foundry gold B over a white undercoat, recess shade of citadel agrax earthshade then highlight with foundry gold C.
@Vanvlak - soon :D
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Excellent painting, especially on the bronze- superb stuff :-*
@UGeneral - the bronze was done by first applying foundry gold B over a white undercoat, recess shade of citadel agrax earthshade then highlight with foundry gold C.
Made even more impressive that you got such good results from the Foundry Metallics 8)
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Thanks Aetheling
I had experimented with foundry a couple of weeks ago, detailling in a workbench thread
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=124761.0
Updating that, I settled for various flesh, spearshaft, gold36, bay brown, conker brown and butterfudge triads and sand B and C, Black and a few others here and there. The rest I'm keeping them in boxes, found Reaper paints much better. Especially for clothing.
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Thanks Aetheling
I had experimented with foundry a couple of weeks ago, detailling in a workbench thread
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=124761.0
Updating that, I settled for various flesh, spearshaft, gold36, bay brown, conker brown and butterfudge triads and sand B and C, Black and a few others here and there. The rest I'm keeping them in boxes, found Reaper paints much better. Especially for clothing.
I found the Foundry metallics impossible to work with. They drove me crazy as I had to apply layer after layer just to get a base coat. Mind, that was well over a decade ago so their formula may have changed(?).
I usually use Vallejo Game Colour for my metallics as they have quite a lot of pigment in them (again, these are from about 15 years ago and still going strong).
I'll take a peek at your other thread when I get the time today :)
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:-* very nice indeed - lovely brushwork and great choice of palette...will build into a very impressive unit so I look forward to seeing more
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:-* :-*
Very nice!
I really like blogs like this!
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Thanks all :)
Finished the whole unit of hoplites, recruited mainly from the coastal western Anatolian cities. Their commander is an eccentric Ionian. He wears a corinthian helmet (obsolete in this period but he loves tradition) and his shield depicts the gorgon (a nod to Athena). They will be marching back to the Satrap's palace to defend his territory and get more gold in the process. The Satrap is informed of this, delighted to have a good number of heavies on the way, but not enough. So he sends another official to hire more hoplites, this time a bit north.......
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Top stuff!!!
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:-* truly magnificent to behold and wonderful brushwork
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Thanks for your comments!
Started the second unit and also a command base (cannot do one thing at a time from start to finish.......)
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I love this idea! Beautiful painting too, by the way :)
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I love this idea! Beautiful painting too, by the way :)
Thanks :D
I should have something ready this week, the first base of another hoplite unit but a difference from the previous unit.
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Lovely work :-*
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Thanks :D
I should have something ready this week, the first base of another hoplite unit but a difference from the previous unit.
Can't wait to see!
By the way, apologies for the n00b question, but as I'm still in my early days in the hobby: you mention you're basing these guys for Hail Caesar, which I thought was meant to be 160x80 for a unit of massed infantry, but I see you've done 180x40 for this unit. Just wondering how acceptable such variations are; does it really just come down to who you're playing against? I've dug through a couple rulesets and they tend to sound quite proscriptive when it comes to basing and unit size, but then there seems to be a great variety whenever I peruse others' work for inspiration.
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Thanks Aetheling :D
Fremitus Borealis my basing is 180x60, basically 3 square bases 60x60 (on a depth of 40 models look crammed in my opinion). For cavalry I increase depth to 80. My opponents use a frontage is 160 with a depth 60 to 80 since they use 40mm square bases or 20mm deep ones. My 20mm extra in frontage doesn't make a difference really - technically speaking it's a disadvantage but Hail Caesar is quite a relaxing game and my two opponents are very friendly so we never have issues on that few mm out of range and such like.
We leave the infantry depth of 80 for pike phalanx, which none of us have at the moment lol
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Thanks Aetheling :D
Fremitus Borealis my basing is 180x60, basically 3 square bases 60x60 (on a depth of 40 models look crammed in my opinion). For cavalry I increase depth to 80. My opponents use a frontage is 160 with a depth 60 to 80 since they use 40mm square bases or 20mm deep ones. My 20mm extra in frontage doesn't make a difference really - technically speaking it's a disadvantage but Hail Caesar is quite a relaxing game and my two opponents are very friendly so we never have issues on that few mm out of range and such like.
We leave the infantry depth of 80 for pike phalanx, which none of us have at the moment lol
Thanks for the clarification! I see now the extra 20mm is in front of your units; I had just quickly counted the hoplites themselves :D
Anyway, I'm still learning how the basing stuff works. Thus far I've just been putting individual infantry on 20x20 bases and then massing them into units, but I've seen a ton of variation around the web, as I said. I've been mostly going off the Hail Caesar guidelines from https://www.warlordgames.com/hail-caesar-base-sizes/ , but even on there they kind of hedge a bit when it comes to base sizes and depth.
Basically I'm still in the "collecting units" phase while trying to figure out how to paint to a reasonable standard... but I am wary of shooting myself in the foot by either basing everything in a way that will lock me into one particular ruleset, or, on the other hand, end up with more soldiers per unit than I really need, and never progress because the painting takes me too long lol I'm collecting Successors and oh my does a 160x80 unit of 32 individual phalangites take forever :o
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Thanks for the clarification! I see now the extra 20mm is in front of your units; I had just quickly counted the hoplites themselves :D
Anyway, I'm still learning how the basing stuff works. Thus far I've just been putting individual infantry on 20x20 bases and then massing them into units, but I've seen a ton of variation around the web, as I said. I've been mostly going off the Hail Caesar guidelines from https://www.warlordgames.com/hail-caesar-base-sizes/ , but even on there they kind of hedge a bit when it comes to base sizes and depth.
Basically I'm still in the "collecting units" phase while trying to figure out how to paint to a reasonable standard... but I am wary of shooting myself in the foot by either basing everything in a way that will lock me into one particular ruleset, or, on the other hand, end up with more soldiers per unit than I really need, and never progress because the painting takes me too long lol I'm collecting Successors and oh my does a 160x80 unit of 32 individual phalangites take forever :o
Collecting minis on individual bases gives you flexibility if you want to use them for skirmish games. On the other hand, if you use large bases you can cheat - 32pikemen can be turned to 24 using 40x80 bases and leaving a gap.
I suggest you use contast paint from citadel for the linothorax to avoid using a lot of time on them. I also suggest doing 1 unit at a time -something I learned the hard way lol
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Beautiful unit :-*
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Collecting minis on individual bases gives you flexibility if you want to use them for skirmish games. On the other hand, if you use large bases you can cheat - 32pikemen can be turned to 24 using 40x80 bases and leaving a gap.
I suggest you use contast paint from citadel for the linothorax to avoid using a lot of time on them. I also suggest doing 1 unit at a time -something I learned the hard way lol
Thanks for the tip re: Citadel contrast paints. What I did with my most recent unit of 32 phalangites was I primed them white, then washed everything in Army Painter soft tone before anything else. I was okay with how the "white" parts of the linothorax looked, so I left it. It actually saved a good bit of time, though picking out those narrow lines on the linothorax still took forever. And, of course, I couldn't help but paint the shoulders on a bunch, as well as the whole chest and back on others, as well. I'm conscious of avoiding the unrealistic "parade ground look", though I imagine things would go faster if I were just painting the exact same thing a couple dozen times lol
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Thanks for the tip re: Citadel contrast paints. What I did with my most recent unit of 32 phalangites was I primed them white, then washed everything in Army Painter soft tone before anything else. I was okay with how the "white" parts of the linothorax looked, so I left it. It actually saved a good bit of time, though picking out those narrow lines on the linothorax still took forever. And, of course, I couldn't help but paint the shoulders on a bunch, as well as the whole chest and back on others, as well. I'm conscious of avoiding the unrealistic "parade ground look", though I imagine things would go faster if I were just painting the exact same thing a couple dozen times lol
Nothing wrong with doing them 'parade ground look' - nowadays there is a tendency to show everything drab, tv series and movies nearly always do that, which is a shame. Obviously I would avoid purples, leaving them for commanders/bodyguards/elite since it was associated with nobility due to the cost/time in making such cloth.
But always paint them the way you like :)
PS Thanks Tonhel :)
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Nothing wrong with doing them 'parade ground look' - nowadays there is a tendency to show everything drab, tv series and movies nearly always do that, which is a shame. Obviously I would avoid purples, leaving them for commanders/bodyguards/elite since it was associated with nobility due to the cost/time in making such cloth.
But always paint them the way you like :)
PS Thanks Tonhel :)
What I mean by "parade ground look" isn't about how bright everything is, but rather, having all the units look the same! The ancient historian in me knows full well that aside from elite units, having everybody "match" would've been pretty rare in the ancient world. (Of course, by the end of a campaign, I doubt there'd be much "shiny" equipment left either, but that's a separate issue.)
Anyway what I meant was, instead of painting 32 phalangites exactly the same, I'd do them in groups of 3 or 4 that all look pretty much the same, but then change it up for the next group. I'll probably try and unify the color palettes more moving forward; for now I'm still practicing with painting different combos and methods and whatnot.
In any event-- I can't wait to see more of your lads!
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@Fremitus - Ah ok, makes sense - definitely agree!
More hoplites march in the Satrap's camp and he is quite surprised. Hoplites wearing trousers - what is this? One the hoplites, with a wry smile on his face gives the satrap a missive from his agent in the north. He is busily recruiting hoplites from the Black Sea coasts and these are the first. Hoplites are welcome in his camp, so the Satrap bids them a good day. The hoplite bows but opens the palm of his right hand, face up. Coins, obviously, muses the Satrap. They're mercenaries after all.
I may not be historically accurate with these, because I didn't find any ceramic images, sculptures/reliefs/frescoes showing hoplites with trousers. Crimean finds show 'normal' greek attire in vases and plates. Cultured Greeks may have viewed trousers as an abomination. There were many greek cities on the coasts of the Black Sea and Crimea. They had contact with Scythians and other 'barbarians'. Some may have taken customs of these peoples or been influenced by them one way or the other.
Victrix has a successor kit which you can use to make trousered phalangites - I had extras so used them with normal hypaspist bodies. Had to fiddle because they didn't exactly fit. Gave them all hellenistic helmets from the successor and greek cavalry kits.
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I think it looks really good! A lovely unit.
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I think it looks really good! A lovely unit.
Thanks :)
Been thinking about them and they could also represent natives of the area being influenced by the Greeks.
Eagerly waiting for Victrix to get back in stock the hypaspist kit - don't have enough for a whole unit.
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That is some very nice painting, and the basing finishes it off a treat :)
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Thanks :)
Been thinking about them and they could also represent natives of the area being influenced by the Greeks.
Eagerly waiting for Victrix to get back in stock the hypaspist kit - don't have enough for a whole unit.
Depending where you are in the world, I know of a couple shops that have them in stock in the US. If you're UK though it's probably just better to wait, with current shipping times and all.
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@Jeff - thanks!
@Fremitus - I live in Malta in the middle of the Mediterranean, a bit far away! Here no hobby store sells Victrix ancients :( Will wait a bit and do the commander in the meantime.
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@Jeff - thanks!
@Fremitus - I live in Malta in the middle of the Mediterranean, a bit far away! Here no hobby store sells Victrix ancients :( Will wait a bit and do the commander in the meantime.
Oh wow yeah, I can imagine getting stuff could be a pain :o
Well, if you get desperate, one of my favorite shops has the Victrix hypaspists in stock and ships to the EU for the price of the order +25%, so itd be a little under 30 EUR, I think.
https://www.badgergames.com/shipping.html
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Long time coming, but I was generally unmotivated to paint. Heatwave doesn’t help either.
Our Satrap has been fretting for weeks now, no new reinforcements to bolster his satrapy. His levies were still green as grass, his mercenaries too few and there were no cavalry to speak of. However, one day two Greeks ride in the Satrap’s camp. One of them is an exile from Thebes, having fled the city after the battle of Chaeronea. Defeated by the golden boy and his father, he seeks revenge. The Satrap muses. He knows too well the usefulness of such men, so gladly gives him command of the hoplites in the Satrap’s service and also a purple cloak as a sign of authority.
I used Victrix greek heavy cavalry set. Used the club motif on the shield to tie him with the narrative.
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Brilliant! Glad to see more more from your project. I hear you on the motivation, for sure. I feel like I've been working on this one phalanx unit for forever, and keep running off and doing side things that sap the time away...
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Thanks Fremitus
Yes I also get easily distracted - focusing on a single project is quite difficult for me.
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Superb :-*
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Lovely work! :-*
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Thanks Fremitus
Yes I also get easily distracted - focusing on a single project is quite difficult for me.
Indeed! I must have like 5 separate units primed and "ready" to be painted right now... at least they're all for basically the same army? lol
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Thanks all!
Our Satrap has bolstered his forces with a scouting group of peltasts. Unwilling to join the macedonians, they heard of persian gold and found employment with the Satrap. Some had fought under the Greek commander, so had been warmly welcomed. They also brought news that more hoplites are on the way and would reach the camp soon......
Finished this group of peltasts - kit-bashed from various victrix sets. I didn't have enough peltast bodies so I used numidians and even greek slingers! Conversions took some time, but didn't want to buy a whole box of peltasts because I have no use for 48 of them and some sprues from ebay weren't worth it.
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Great looking unit!
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Fantastic painting and basing!
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Beautiful as always! Gotta ask (since I'm a noob)-- would the way these lads are based count as "open order" for a game? I ask because I'm looking at how to do skirmishers for my army and I'm a little confused over whether I should base then individually, or just group them the way you've done here, which looks better to my eyes, IMO.
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Thanks Tonhel, Roo & Fremitus!
Based as they are (for Hail Caesar), they are still still considered in close order. If I want them in open order I split bases, ie leaving an inch gap between each base. My opponent's light infantry are individually based - he gathers them in units of 8 miniatures in 1 rank, together. When in open order he 'splits' them in skirmish formation. Hail Caesar is very adaptable.
I do my basing on the style of Painterman's wonderful Burgundian army.
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Just catching up on this project now. Really splendid work, and a nice take on hoplites in Persian service.
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Thanks Nic!
Those hoplites are next in line, and will soon have the whole unit ready.
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Thanks Tonhel, Roo & Fremitus!
Based as they are (for Hail Caesar), they are still still considered in close order. If I want them in open order I split bases, ie leaving an inch gap between each base. My opponent's light infantry are individually based - he gathers them in units of 8 miniatures in 1 rank, together. When in open order he 'splits' them in skirmish formation. Hail Caesar is very adaptable.
I do my basing on the style of Painterman's wonderful Burgundian army.
Thanks for the tip! I guess I just struggle with how to handle a bunch of single-based figures in open order without using one of those shuffleboard pushers or whatever lol
I much prefer the idea of what you have here! Are the bases themselves 40x40, or 50x50?
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You're welcome Fremitus!
The bases are 60x60 - all my standard infantry units have a frontage of 180 and a depth of 60. Standard cavalry have the same frontage but a depth of 80.
For a small unit I remove a base, for a large unit I add one.
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You're welcome Fremitus!
The bases are 60x60 - all my standard infantry units have a frontage of 180 and a depth of 60. Standard cavalry have the same frontage but a depth of 80.
For a small unit I remove a base, for a large unit I add one.
Ah, interesting! I might just steal your idea. I really like how the light troops already kind of "look" like they're in open order before they are :D