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Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Fremitus Borealis on July 01, 2020, 05:42:07 PM

Title: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/23 - Scythian Chieftain)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 01, 2020, 05:42:07 PM
So as I've mentioned in miscellaneous threads, I started collecting and painting models around March of this year. I figured I'd start this thread to track my progress, as I don't have a blog or anything. My progress has been pretty slow because I'm learning as I go and am wary of going too fast...and ending up with a load of models done, but not being happy with the results, if that makes sense. I have also been working on a bunch of different things at once (including stuff from different areas of history) to help keep my motivation up just so I'm not doing the exact same thing for too long! I also figure with everything going on in the world, it'll still be quite a while until I'd theoretically even be able to play a game for the first time, so there's no hurry either  ;)

I've always been fascinated by the period between Phillip II and the Roman conquests in the east, so I decided to start my hobby off in the Successors period. I likewise figured there's enough "crossover" both time-wise and geography-wise when it comes to the armies that I would have a good bit of flexibility. I'm thinking my main force will be roughly Antiochus the Great-era Seleucids, but I'd like to also be able to portray a Greco-Bactrian army as well with a few extra pieces, maybe even dipping back into Alexander-era as well. And it couldn't hurt to have enough to field two armies, right? ;)

Anyway, as I said I'd like to use this thread to track my progress as I go. If you have any tips, pointers, constructive criticisms, etc., I am all ears! I'm still learning here, and lurking on this forum as well as browsing Jeff Jonas' website have been a great inspiration to me so far.

Here is my first "finished" unit that I'm more or less happy with, at least at my current skill level:

EDIT: I forgot to mention when I posted that the unit below is *mostly* Victrix's Successor Phalangites (with the "pants" modification), with a few Warlord Macedonian Phalangites mixed in to get the number up to 32 :)

 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Doom Beard 78 on July 01, 2020, 05:56:08 PM
A fantastic start, good to see that you got the ball rolling. Getting into Successors can be addictive given the range of units you can add and how colourfull some of the units can be

That unit looks really good
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: scotty on July 01, 2020, 06:04:57 PM
Great looking regiment
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Easy E on July 01, 2020, 06:58:52 PM
That is really striking looking. 

Those Victrix models look the part.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: wmyers on July 01, 2020, 07:27:02 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: OSHIROmodels on July 01, 2020, 07:37:08 PM
Lovely  :)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Corso on July 01, 2020, 07:43:21 PM
That's a great phalanx :-*

The way you're approaching the project, that is going slowly, is a very good strategy.

Will keep my eyes peeled on your interesting project  :)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 01, 2020, 07:58:09 PM
Wow, thanks for the kind words, everyone! As I said though, I'm still learning really all facets of the hobby, so any suggestions/tips are greatly appreciated :)

Quote from: Doom Beard 78
A fantastic start, good to see that you got the ball rolling. Getting into Successors can be addictive given the range of units you can add and how colourfull some of the units can be
Yeah, that's the idea! I love the thought of being able to have phalangites, horse archers, elephants, Gauls, Thracians, and miscellaneous eastern "native" troops all in the same army  :D

Quote from: Corso
The way you're approaching the project, that is going slowly, is a very good strategy.
Thanks-- I figure as long as I'm always doing something, I will be improving in some way, right? ......which is how I rationalize that I'm currently "working on" like 15 different units/minis  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Doom Beard 78 on July 01, 2020, 08:46:30 PM
Thracians are a lot of fun to paint. As regards Elephants many of us are very partial to the Aventine resin range.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 01, 2020, 09:46:14 PM
Thracians are a lot of fun to paint. As regards Elephants many of us are very partial to the Aventine resin range.

Funny you say that, because those are exactly the range I plan on getting, along with some of their cavalry, I think. I ordered a couple of their commander figures that I'm still waiting on (can't complain of course... I'm surprised the mail works *at all* these days, sometimes.)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Westbury on July 02, 2020, 08:54:15 PM
Lovely unit, a good start I'd say. We haven't put paint to figure yet, still doing the research, but like you going for the Victrix route where possible.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: hallmarkFPS on July 02, 2020, 09:58:44 PM
Impressive unit!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 02, 2020, 10:28:14 PM
Lovely unit, a good start I'd say. We haven't put paint to figure yet, still doing the research, but like you going for the Victrix route where possible.

Thanks! And yeah, Victrix really do have some lovely units. Having done a little bit with metals now I can see why some folks swear off plastics for one reason or another, but you just can't beat the realism with Victrix, from what I've seen. The only slight knocks I've heard/noticed against them are: 1) their models tend to be a bit bigger than others; I was working with the "Macedonian Heavy Cavalry" pack today, and it was striking how much bigger the models (especially horses!) were than some others I've accrued this year. Also 2) Maybe it's just the last couple ranges they've released and previewed, but there doesn't appear to be much variation in the heads of "hatless" figures; I swear I've seen the same guy in Gallic, Persian, German, and Dacian armies... maybe he's just a long-service mercenary or something lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Atheling on July 03, 2020, 12:03:52 PM
Fab work  :-*
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Westbury on July 03, 2020, 01:01:51 PM
Ref the heavy cavalry, one of the group bought a sprue of these off eBay and man are they big! Nice but big  :)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: aktr on July 03, 2020, 01:45:11 PM
they look great

I'm looking at dipping my toe into ancients and I'm considering a Successor army
what do you plan on using for your eastern native troops?
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 03, 2020, 04:13:28 PM
they look great

I'm looking at dipping my toe into ancients and I'm considering a Successor army
what do you plan on using for your eastern native troops?

Good question. I don't have any yet, but I was looking at maybe Wargames Atlantic, or I know Victrix will be making some Persians soon that I *think* could probably be used without really converting.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: mc_deli on July 04, 2020, 06:35:15 PM
Yes! Great stuff. Similar here. I could have written your intro, except I started at Xmas and in 15mm. ;)

That is an ace job on those pike and I hope they see many table tops and bring you great victories! Bravo!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Jjonas on July 04, 2020, 07:18:34 PM
Great start to pump up your army!
Having a 32 figure phalanx is definitely a strong start to your Successor collection. The trousered phalangites are certainly useful for many Early and Later Successor armies. You can plug in some silver shields, or other elites to fill out the collection. Usually phalangites are very interchangeable with few identifying items other than shield designs, and helmet styles, and growing uniformity over time. Trousered phalangites may have been a rare thing, but it is a nice way to delineate your elites from the also rans on the table top.

Length of the pike is another amorphous area as some state the pike got longer and less flexible to use as time wore on. But that is not really too much an issue for models except among the most pedantic. The real issue is strength of the plastic pikes. I had to abort my Warlord Pikes because too much breakage while prepping and priming. It seems my old fumble thumbs cant resist dropping things, *and snap* those pikes come off when they drop five inches. Now I'm afraid if I even look at them sideways they will snap off. So they have sat in the closet awaiting some girding of loins and vast energetic cutting and swapping with metal replacements.

Victrix cavalry are incredibly large compared to normal large 28mm figures. They really dwarf most of my 25-28mm figures from the past. I am close to finishing some, soon. Same problem with the xystons, beautifully detailed but I fear the snapping.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: WuZhuiQiu on July 04, 2020, 08:01:34 PM
Jeff, writing of trousered phalangites, do you think that, with their sarissa drastically shortened and the addition of oval scuta or thureos, they might work as "imitation legionaries" or, at least, thureophoroi?
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 04, 2020, 10:10:06 PM
Great start to pump up your army!
Having a 32 figure phalanx is definitely a strong start to your Successor collection. The trousered phalangites are certainly useful for many Early and Later Successor armies. You can plug in some silver shields, or other elites to fill out the collection. Usually phalangites are very interchangeable with few identifying items other than shield designs, and helmet styles, and growing uniformity over time. Trousered phalangites may have been a rare thing, but it is a nice way to delineate your elites from the also rans on the table top.

Length of the pike is another amorphous area as some state the pike got longer and less flexible to use as time wore on. But that is not really too much an issue for models except among the most pedantic. The real issue is strength of the plastic pikes. I had to abort my Warlord Pikes because too much breakage while prepping and priming. It seems my old fumble thumbs cant resist dropping things, *and snap* those pikes come off when they drop five inches. Now I'm afraid if I even look at them sideways they will snap off. So they have sat in the closet awaiting some girding of loins and vast energetic cutting and swapping with metal replacements.

Victrix cavalry are incredibly large compared to normal large 28mm figures. They really dwarf most of my 25-28mm figures from the past. I am close to finishing some, soon. Same problem with the xystons, beautifully detailed but I fear the snapping.

Thanks, Jeff! Yeah I do agree that the sarissas on the plastics do seem a little brittle; I think I broke three or four just in the time I was working on these! But otherwise I love how they look. Maybe given a long enough time frame I'll replace them with metal at some point...
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: AdamPHayes on July 05, 2020, 07:23:58 PM
Jeff, writing of trousered phalangites, do you think that, with their sarissa drastically shortened and the addition of oval scuta or thureos, they might work as "imitation legionaries" or, at least, thureophoroi?

I did much the same with Victrix Theban hoplites and I think they look very feasible. I cannot think of an example of trousered thureophoroi but they would probably be interpreted as Galatians if they did exist...
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 05, 2020, 07:55:56 PM
I did much the same with Victrix Theban hoplites and I think they look very feasible. I cannot think of an example of trousered thureophoroi but they would probably be interpreted as Galatians if they did exist...

The way I kinda look at it is also...how many examples of *non*trousered thureophoroi do we have, ya know? We have to remember that when dealing with the ancient world, any evidence we have is only a fraction of what originally existed. So given the length of time of the Successor period, it seems unlikely to me that there wouldn't have been at least a few units of what look like us like thureophoroi, but with trousers on.

That said, I'm new enough to the hobby that I personally can't speak for the reactions of one's wargaming opponents to any..."unexpected" looking units on the table  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Jjonas on July 05, 2020, 09:58:50 PM
Jeff, writing of trousered phalangites, do you think that, with their sarissa drastically shortened and the addition of oval scuta or thureos, they might work as "imitation legionaries" or, at least, thureophoroi?

One thing that I have not commonly seen is an armored thureos user with linen thorax armor. In fact one needs to do a very deep dive to find anything close. Our evidence of thorakites seems to point to mail armor more than corselets. However in the Montvert "The Ptolemaic Army" by Nick Sekunda, there are some tantalizing references to thureos users with linen style armor. Figures 85-86 and 91-92 have linen style corselets. However neither have trousers.

As for trouser wearers we have little to go on. For the answer to this specific question- "Could I use these models as Pontic thorakites" I would say ok why not, with the caveat of "who knows" (did the Pontics have thorakites? LOL). Same for imitation legions, although I would be less cheerful about that.  It all doesn't matter much with Pontic or Galatian troops since they were not all that effective against real legions (except for the trained and drilled cohorts that came later, and probably had legionary gear). However there are references to Romans looking the same as Pontics- so that's a clue.

For the tabletop one can smudge a bit, as I often say. It is better if the units look the part even if one cannot formulate an exact reference. For instance the 1st Corps Ptolemaic machimoi models are very colorful- half Egyptian half Macedonian in style. In reality they were given state equipment so they most likely looked pretty much like regular phalangites with whatever peculiarities that Ptolemaic provisioners would provide.  On the game table though it works better to have them look the part - since it does not alter the stats. Often I defer to looking the part and knowing it might me wrong, over tending toward a 'reality' that is out of grasp.

I think one must take sources and important info such as presented in The Monverts above and AMPW by Duncan Head as the baseline of high probability of 'reality' and then we will have fill in with color and other attributes that suit our table army since not all gaps in our information can be resolved.

Trousered phalangites- there isn't any reliable exact info, but it solves the who is who issue on the table.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Easy E on July 06, 2020, 08:11:25 PM
Yeah, I just use shield color to differentiate my Phalanx units..... modeling the guys with trousers means I have to cut off too many legs. 

What do I look like, a surgeon? 

Edit: I am specifically referencing the Victrix phalangites.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 06, 2020, 08:50:34 PM
Yeah, I just use shield color to differentiate my Phalanx units..... modeling the guys with trousers means I have to cut off too many legs. 

What do I look like, a surgeon? 

Edit: I am specifically referencing the Victrix phalangites.

 lol

I hear you, though I didn't mind much. I like the customizable angle, I guess.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 06, 2020, 09:03:30 PM
Oh speaking of thorakitai, I forgot to post that I recently touched up the basing on a unit from Warlord (I think these are technically for SPQR?) that I had "finished" a while before the phalanx unit in post #1. I'm still not 100% happy with it, but I guess no one's ever completely happy with their own work.

Actually, I think a bigger thing for me is it just doesn't look like there are "enough" of them in the unit. I'm still learning when it comes to unit width, numbers of models, basing, etc. Maybe someday I'll get more to help fill it out?
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Atheling on July 06, 2020, 10:04:36 PM
Fab  8)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: FierceKitty on July 07, 2020, 02:09:03 AM
Oh speaking of thorakitai, I forgot to post that I recently touched up the basing on a unit from Warlord (I think these are technically for SPQR?) that I had "finished" a while before the phalanx unit in post #1. I'm still not 100% happy with it, but I guess no one's ever completely happy with their own work.

Actually, I think a bigger thing for me is it just doesn't look like there are "enough" of them in the unit. I'm still learning when it comes to unit width, numbers of models, basing, etc. Maybe someday I'll get more to help fill it out?

They look pretty good, whatever the numbers.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 13, 2020, 12:16:06 PM
They look pretty good, whatever the numbers.

Thanks 😁

I should be sharing some Victrix heavy cavalry in the next couple days. The poor horsies look a little crowded on the movement tray though, so I may have to fix that somehow.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Corso on July 14, 2020, 06:24:54 AM
Nice looking thorakitai :-*

Looking forward to your heavy cavalry :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: AdamPHayes on July 14, 2020, 07:01:01 AM
Thanks 😁

I should be sharing some Victrix heavy cavalry in the next couple days. The poor horsies look a little crowded on the movement tray though, so I may have to fix that somehow.

Part of the problem of that type of movement tray is that it imposes a restriction on how you can base your figures. Infantry  units often look too dispersed or under strength and you are finding the opposite with your horse.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 14, 2020, 06:55:03 PM
Part of the problem of that type of movement tray is that it imposes a restriction on how you can base your figures. Infantry  units often look too dispersed or under strength and you are finding the opposite with your horse.

Yeah, I'm seeing that (though part of the issue is the Victrix cavalry are all like 7ft tall riding horse-shaped elephants  lol ).

I'm still new enough that I'm not sure how to get around it. Guess I could just get/make a bigger tray, but then I might have the opposite problem?
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: AdamPHayes on July 15, 2020, 03:22:00 AM
Yeah, I'm seeing that (though part of the issue is the Victrix cavalry are all like 7ft tall riding horse-shaped elephants  lol ).

I'm still new enough that I'm not sure how to get around it. Guess I could just get/make a bigger tray, but then I might have the opposite problem?

LOL.

Or use the situation to your advantage, in the same way some people do with multi-figure elements. Have one movement tray representing 6 figures even if there are only 5 models present on it?
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 18, 2020, 10:48:38 PM
Done-ish with the "heavy" cavalry. These are from the Victrix "Macedonian Heavy Cavalry" range. I thought about painting them as normal Macedonian Hetairoi (with the yellow/purple capes Alexander gave them), but I just painted the officer figure with the "classic" cape; if these are Seleucids/Greco-Bactrians, maybe this guy's just going for that "classic look"?  ;) Otherwise, I loosely based them on this image http://turningpointsoftheancientworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/arius-river.jpg (http://turningpointsoftheancientworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/arius-river.jpg) from Tristan Hughes' TurningPointsoftheAncientWorld.com.

Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Ray Rivers on July 19, 2020, 12:31:38 AM
Nice project you got going here!

You are putting together quite an army.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: wmyers on July 19, 2020, 02:21:55 AM
The cavalry look just as good as the phalangites!  The lighting in your pictures is very nice.

I used extra heads from the Victrix phalangites on the Immortal/Warlord Greeks to make Hypaspists.  The Immortal/Warlord Greeks have “undersized” heads (anatomically proportioned) compared to most 28mm figures but the phalangites’ heads work well on them and the helmets tie them into the Macedonians. 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 19, 2020, 11:10:00 AM
Thanks, guys!

Yeah the lighting is pretty good because I do it ye olde fashione way.... With the Earth's yellow sun!  :D I can never get lighting to work well indoors for photography, so I just take the mini-men out to the picnic table. I also built a sort of diorama base out of an old dresser drawer bottom, some styrofoam, and some wall spackle just to help make the photos look a little more interesting than just a white piece of paper  :)

Anywho, next up are probably some more phalangites, though I'm picking away at some Gauls (I suppose "Galatians" in this case) right now as well. I've developed a system of sorts where I have multiple units primed so I can use any excess paint I had to mix on them (really helpful for skin tone, since it's hard to mix a small amount!), which gives me a decent head start.

I'm thinking of going Silver Shield with these next phalangites just so they're standard enough I can get through them a little quicker  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Digits on July 19, 2020, 11:14:35 AM
I try to take pics outside for the same reason!

Good work fella
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Westbury on July 19, 2020, 07:54:21 PM
Good work on the cavalry - we are nowhere near painting stuff yet  :-[
Kind of confirms the view that the Victrix cavalry are a bit big so nothing can be mixed with them but compared to buying the equivalent in metal a considerable saving  :)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 19, 2020, 08:30:46 PM
Good work on the cavalry - we are nowhere near painting stuff yet  :-[
Kind of confirms the view that the Victrix cavalry are a bit big so nothing can be mixed with them but compared to buying the equivalent in metal a considerable saving  :)

Yeah I love the sculpts, but they're just so much bigger than everything else it's kind of crazy. I'm almost afraid to buy elephants now, only to see the horses come up to the elephants' heads  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Corso on July 20, 2020, 06:12:50 AM
Nice work - well done!

The Victrix elephant kit is quite good - used it for my punics. I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Atheling on July 20, 2020, 07:48:50 AM
lovely brushwork Fremitus Borealis  :-*

I'm following this thread with great interest.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: wmyers on July 20, 2020, 08:17:48 AM
Yeah I love the sculpts, but they're just so much bigger than everything else it's kind of crazy. I'm almost afraid to buy elephants now, only to see the horses come up to the elephants' heads  lol

The elephants don’t look small. Perhaps the worry should be they will be like Oliphants from the Lord of the Rings movies ...
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Easy E on July 20, 2020, 02:00:41 PM
Nicely painted.  Since you used Victrix for the Heavy Cavalry, they should look big. 

Now, use some smaller brand for the light cavalry and it will all make sense!   lol lol lol lol

I really enjoyed putting together and painting my Victrix models. 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 20, 2020, 03:55:46 PM
Well I plan on buying some elephants from Aventine, since right now Victrix only have African elephants. But the one Aventine cavalry figure I have is noticeably smaller than the guys I just painted, so we'll see how their elephants compare to Victrix cavalry  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Westbury on July 21, 2020, 07:41:59 PM
Bought some sample Aventine infantry and they match in quite well with the Victrix so I'll be interested how the elephants match
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 21, 2020, 07:45:20 PM
Bought some sample Aventine infantry and they match in quite well with the Victrix so I'll be interested how the elephants match

Me too!

As it turns out though, my Aventine elephant idea will have to wait a little longer, as I just picked up two Old Glory and one Warlord elephants. Hope those two are reasonably close  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: AdamPHayes on July 22, 2020, 05:39:23 AM
Well I plan on buying some elephants from Aventine, since right now Victrix only have African elephants. But the one Aventine cavalry figure I have is noticeably smaller than the guys I just painted, so we'll see how their elephants compare to Victrix cavalry  :D

The Aventine elephants seem to be on the large side. I have their African ellie and it is the same height as “normal” 28mm Indian elephants, when they should be noticeably shorter. Presumably their Indian elephants are larger still.

https://wargamewarrior.webs.com/apps/blog/show/44681546-final-units
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 24, 2020, 09:06:42 PM
Just a quick little update today. I've been working on like fifteen different things at once, so I needed a "quick win" with this command figure.

This is one of Aventine's  "Successor mounted commanders". I'm imagining him as Demetrius I of Bactria. He's clearly full of himself, so he's gone for that retro hetairoi look with his purple and yellow cape. And if Megas Alexandros could have a leopard skin saddle cloth, why wouldn't a ruler from the foot of the Hindu Kush have a snow leopard skin?  :D

I also liked the touch of the elephant helmet, known only from coins as far as I know, but Aventine went for it! It makes sense, though; I mean Roman cavalry helmets/masks 100 years after this were works of art, so why not?
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: mc_deli on July 24, 2020, 09:39:33 PM
Where’s the like button?!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: AdamPHayes on July 25, 2020, 08:57:09 AM
Nice job on that figure! I did, like you, think of that figure for one of my Bactrian Greek generals. However my gut instinct was, “ that looks f***ing ridiculous!” So I didn’t 🙂You might have changed my mind now though....
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 25, 2020, 08:27:19 PM
Yeah, I thought it was silly at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized it's exactly the kind of thing a full-of-themselves Hellenistic general might actually wear  :D And I mean, it led me to making a snow leopard saddle cloth, so it makes sense, right?  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: AdamPHayes on July 26, 2020, 01:44:21 PM
Yeah, I thought it was silly at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized it's exactly the kind of thing a full-of-themselves Hellenistic general might actually wear  :D And I mean, it led me to making a snow leopard saddle cloth, so it makes sense, right?  lol

The saddlecloth is excellent, I’m definitely stealing that idea!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 26, 2020, 10:50:41 PM
The saddlecloth is excellent, I’m definitely stealing that idea!

Feel free! I've stolen all my meager skills and ideas from other people, so it's only fair! :D

With that in mind, you probably already know this, but I started the snow leopard saddlecloth with solid light grey, then I did the black spots, then started adding tiny hashmarks of different cream and white colors to help give it a textured look.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Easy E on July 27, 2020, 02:54:58 PM
The age of the Diadochi did herald in a growing sense of individualism across the board in art, religion, and philosophy.  This was not just limited to the Kings, but also the intelligentsia and power brokers below them, and all the way down to the lower strata of society.  People started to think of themselves more as individuals and less as a citizen of City X, student of W, or follower of Z only. 

A classic example is the rise of Mystery religions which focus on salvation and the secret knowledge for an individual and less on the good of the community as previous religious rites often focused on.

All of this is to say, of course a "rising star" in the military world would want to show off and use a Snow Leopard saddle cloth and an elephant helmet!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 29, 2020, 08:31:55 PM
The age of the Diadochi did herald in a growing sense of individualism across the board in art, religion, and philosophy.  This was not just limited to the Kings, but also the intelligentsia and power brokers below them, and all the way down to the lower strata of society.  People started to think of themselves more as individuals and less as a citizen of City X, student of W, or follower of Z only. 

A classic example is the rise of Mystery religions which focus on salvation and the secret knowledge for an individual and less on the good of the community as previous religious rites often focused on.

All of this is to say, of course a "rising star" in the military world would want to show off and use a Snow Leopard saddle cloth and an elephant helmet!

Great points! Funny that it's one of those eras that really does get "glossed over" in most history classes (sandwiched in between Alexander and the rise of Rome), when in reality it had huge ramifications for world history.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 29, 2020, 08:47:05 PM
Oh also, no Successors update today, as my 3.5 year old decided he wanted to stay home with daddy instead of going to school  lol I did manage to "finish" up one of the 537 rando (non-Successor-related) figures I have started though, and it only cost me one bits-box Warlord phalangite. Guess which of us painted which figure?  :D

Btw, the rando is one of the character figures by Xyston miniatures (one of the few I've found in 28mm!). It's supposed to be Leonidas, though I was pretty sure Spartans weren't wearing linothorax back in the 5th century.... so I dunno, maybe it's Cleomenes or something. Or hey, maybe he actually *is* a Successor general, who just happens to be obsessed with the Spartans, but didn't want the sweaty confines of a bronze cuirass!  lol  I'm mostly sharing here because I'm REALLY happy with how the eyes turned out. Not perfect, but I doubt I'll ever be able to replicate the result :D

Btw x2: Didn't notice till now that my son's figure looks like a Hellenistic Cyberman  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Atheling on July 30, 2020, 07:39:15 AM
"Aces"  :-*

....it always feels good to use a Coen Brothers quote  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on August 30, 2020, 03:12:11 PM
Haven't posted an update in a while... probably because I'm working on like 15 different things at once  lol

I'm not super happy with how these guys turned out (including the photography, haha), but to be honest I'm sick of looking at them, so I called it done for now :D

They're meant to be Silver Shields. I went with purple as one of the main colors (and tried to keep them fairly standard-looking), since I figured as a named unit they'd probably have the means to pay people to crush all those poor murex for the dye lol  I couldn't help myself with the shields themselves, though. They just looked too plain without any color :D

The figures are the Warlord Macedonian Phalangites, though I swapped out their shields with Foundry phalangites, since I have other plans for the Foundry lads. The command group are the SPQR resin pezhetairoi (I think?).

And, yes, I realize it looks like they're marching through someone's garden :D I wasn't super happy with how their feet turned out, so hopefully the vegetation distracts the eye enough from me needing to re-paint 32 sets of sandals!

Oh, and I suppose it's worth mentioning that the image on the standard is one I made on my computer and transferred onto the waterslide paper, as detailed in my thread on that subject. I can say now that I recommend getting both kinds of paper: both the white AND the clear. I wish I'd had some of the clear for this one... I may have to go back and re-do it at some point.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Corso on August 30, 2020, 04:29:22 PM
I like them!

It was a great idea the way you made the shields, instead of plain silver.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on August 30, 2020, 10:12:22 PM
Thanks! Yeah, I don't know how historical it is, but it's close enough for my tastes :D

On a related matter, today I started a small unit of eastern light horsemen. Man it's so satisfying knowing I'll probably be done in like 2 or 3 days, instead of a freaking month like with the phalangites lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 06, 2020, 10:24:15 PM
Today I finished a small unit of eastern light cavalry. You know, the kind of interchangable, dirt-farming peasants who could hail from anywhere from Anatolia to the Indus  :D

The  figures are from Essex. Three are "Civic Militia" light cavalry, the other three are actually hippakontistai from the Greek range. I added Warlord phalangite shields to the latter just so they blended a little better together.

I tried to keep them from all wearing matching clothes, since these would be basically levies.

The shield designs are totally fanciful. I invented one of them to stand for "Bactra", i.e. Balkh. This was called something like "Bakhlo" in the Bactrian language, so I invented a shield design of the first three letters in Greek forming a symbol, based loosely on a similar design for hoplites from the Greek city of Acharnia I saw in AMPW (and I think an Angus McBride plate somewhere).

The ones that look kind of like the "pi" symbol are the letter "M" in the ancient Sogdian language, which I've here imagined as a symbol for troops from Marakanda (Samarkand). And the one that looks sort of like an "L" is the letter "S" in the same language. You know, for Sogdiana  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 09, 2020, 02:47:28 AM
Oh, I should also mention, I made kind of a makeshift movement tray out of some scrap pieces of balsa wood, spackling, and sand. It's not precisely measured really, I just wanted something to stick them in that looked a bit "open-order-y", since I figure these type of cavalry would likely be open order most of the time, and I don't want them just sitting on my shelf individually :)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: bluewillow on September 09, 2020, 06:15:15 AM
Great stuff, light cavalry are always handy

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Jjonas on September 09, 2020, 04:57:15 PM
Essex still has some nice figures to augment Eastern Persians. One of the few metal lines in 28mm that still have a robust selection that follow *AMPW guidance. They have their quirks, but I like how you presented them and mixed and matched figures.

(*Duncan Head Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars).
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 09, 2020, 09:48:55 PM
Thanks, Matt!

@Jeff: Thanks, some of their figures look a little dodgy, but they are indeed the only company I've found that actually have a variety of "Bactrian" type units. As you say, AMPW-friendly! :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Corso on September 10, 2020, 05:27:25 AM
Nice work including basing!  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 12, 2020, 02:01:34 AM
Thanks!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 13, 2020, 03:42:36 PM
So, not finished obviously, but I decided to try out the green stuff on some Celts. I have had a box of Warlord Celts kicking around for a while, partially based, primed, etc. Decided to break them up into two units and still preserve that ragged, warband-y appearance. But it was bothering me how many identical twins there were, so... here we are  :D

I added capes, beards, and substantial manes to a bunch of the guys. Also, as I think was discussed in another thread, I swapped out a few heads with Victrix phalangites, since it stands to reason at least some of the guys would adopt some local gear eventually.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on November 23, 2020, 11:54:01 PM
So, just a minor update, since I've been slowly working on like 18 different things  :D

I recently got a few minis from Relic, including one of their Hellenistic officers, and realized if I added a beard, we bore a striking similarity with one another, so he leapt to the head of the queue  lol I added a ridiculously large beard (art imitating life here... ) and tried adding some ram's horns to the helmet, with about a 50% success rate :D

Anyway, here he is:

Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Captain Harlock on November 24, 2020, 02:24:34 PM
Cool conversions! Thats a big beard there  lol
About the horns, if you use a wire armature and then build the detail in layers on top it will be easier.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on November 24, 2020, 05:22:53 PM
Cool conversions! Thats a big beard there  lol
About the horns, if you use a wire armature and then build the detail in layers on top it will be easier.

Good call on the horns! The one closest to his body, I thought I'd be able to hide it under the cloak a bit but ran out of space.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Easy E on November 24, 2020, 08:49:04 PM
I would not worry too much about the horns.  They will pass the "Arm's Length" test that we play almost all of our games at anyway!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on November 27, 2020, 03:08:26 PM
I would not worry too much about the horns.  They will pass the "Arm's Length" test that we play almost all of our games at anyway!

Cheers  :) I'm sure I'll get around to fixing it eventually, but for now, there's so much to paint! :D

And convert! I've decided that this fellow will represent a "Hellenized Galatian" in Seleukid service, so I'm greenstuff-ing a couple other lads to go with him on a circular command stand. Not sure how "historical" any of it is, but it's close enough, and anyway, is a nice distraction in between painting endless phalangites  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Ceeteegee on November 27, 2020, 09:25:09 PM
I like the look of the Galatian unit. The Essex figures take me back and it's great to see them getting a little bit of love.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on December 02, 2020, 02:28:16 AM
I like the look of the Galatian unit. The Essex figures take me back and it's great to see them getting a little bit of love.

Thanks :) No idea when I'll get the "Galatians" painted up, but so it goes! I figure I'll probably do maybe one "base" of them at a time just to keep my sanity; not sure one can really paint that much plaid in a timely manner  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project -- (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on February 23, 2021, 02:17:34 AM
So it's been a while, but I finally have a minor update!

I put together this command group from a few different ranges. I've already talked about the handsome bearded fellow in this thread, so go to the previous page to hear about him :D I'm imagining these lads as a group of Hellenised Galatians in Seleucid service, with Greek/Macedonian gear but still having a Celtic sort of look.

The guy with the shield on the ground: Victrix Theban body, Aventine head, flowing locks of green stuff.

Guy holding shield: Foundry (Theban?) sculpt, green stuff snazzy mustache and hair extensions :D I didn't like the bowl-cut-ish hairdo he had, but once I added a handlebar mustache and longer hair, he looks kinda Vercingetorix-y :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Codsticker on February 23, 2021, 02:58:06 AM
That turquoise and blue helmet looks very smart.👍
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Jjonas on February 23, 2021, 05:13:28 AM
Nice conversions on those Galatians. Adding cloaks is a chore. I reckon they mostly had them, but for my old figures I go with a mix of styles. Plus it gives the kind of variety we all like.  As you probably know, Relic has some Hellenized Galatians/Celts now. Aventine has a bunch of armored ones with spears.

https://www.relicminiatures.com/product/hellenized-celts/

https://aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/53_166/products_id/838

https://aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/53_166/products_id/837

These are cool and can be added to other units- or the spearmen can be a chieftain's guard.

Good work on your Successor army- it isn't ever really done, believe me.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: bluewillow on February 23, 2021, 08:04:04 AM
Loving them, I was expecting crazy cloak wearers. Great work on the hairstyles and handlebar moustaches!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on February 23, 2021, 01:19:42 PM
Thanks, guys. Yeah I was definitely going for a "Galatians wearing Greek-style stuff" look, so they're basically just normal Successor style troops, but with long hair and facial hair :D

Codeticker: yeah I'm happy with how the hemet turned out. It's basically just Vallejo Deep Sky Blue with Army Painter Soft Tone wash over the top!

Jeff: yeah I did know of those Relic and Aventine sets-- great stuff! I'm sure I'll pick them up eventually! The "general" in the group there is actually a Relic figure I'd had kicking around for a while.

As for cloaks: yeah I thought about giving the other two guys cloaks, but eventually just decided against it, partially to make the commander stand out more, but also because sculpting cloaks drives me nuts  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Ceeteegee on February 23, 2021, 08:33:49 PM
Very nice figures again and some good ideas on how to model them.
I can't sculpt and so I tend to take the easy option and use the cloaks that come with the plastic Fireforge medieval figures. My Medievals don't wear them and all that's usually required is a little of the Green Stuff to cover gaps/ joins. 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: AdamPHayes on February 24, 2021, 12:25:22 PM
I actually find cloaks easier than all the snazzy conversions you have been showing off! Maybe crumpled up wrinkly cloth just suits my sculpting style?  ???
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on February 24, 2021, 11:18:04 PM
I actually find cloaks easier than all the snazzy conversions you have been showing off! Maybe crumpled up wrinkly cloth just suits my sculpting style?  ???
To each his own  ;D For beards and hair I literally just take a tiny blob of green stuff and poke at it with an exacto knife until it's roughly the proper shape! Capes on the other hand ... *Shudder*

Maybe because they take up so much more space I'm just extra worried about them looking rubbish?
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Codsticker on February 25, 2021, 06:03:12 AM
It's basically just Vallejo Deep Sky Blue with Army Painter Soft Tone wash over the top
That's a great combo- I will have to give it a shot.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on February 25, 2021, 06:36:12 AM
Lots to love in this thread, great work! You have every right to be proud of the eyes on that Spartan fellow. Great concept and execution on the Galatians.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on February 25, 2021, 04:31:04 PM
That's a great combo- I will have to give it a shot.

I kind of stole the idea from this image ( https://www.artstation.com/artwork/QrrXB3 ) of a "hypaspist officer" by the artist Joan Francesc Oliveras Pallerols, who is working on a brilliant series of images based on Alexander and his conquests. Great stuff, and I'm sure I'll be "borrowing" more of their ideas in the future :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (2/22 Hellenised Galatian command group)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on February 27, 2021, 03:29:15 PM
Nearing "completion" on a "Bactrian" phalanx that I've been picking away at for months and months; I really like that feeling when you know you're CLOSE and see the light at the end of the tunnel!  :D Not the best painting (never is!), but I like the varied look, and I think it'll pass the "arm's length test".

Also will be trying a different basing method this time. Details to follow.......
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on March 06, 2021, 11:48:22 PM
Finally finished up a phalanx I'd been chipping away at for forever the other day.

I'm imagining these lads as a "Bactrian" phalanx. The figures themselves are a mix of older RAFM and (I think) Ral Partha 25mm tinies. Some of them look a little dodgy (and the painting didn't help them!), but since I painted each one uniquely I think it's a little less noticeable.

I made all the shield transfers and printed them myself  :o Some worked better than others, but I liked the idea of tying them all together with a "theme", without making them all look exactly the same. Late in the game I also modified the top of the standard with the horrible leopard you see here  lol Originally it was an eagle-type creature, but I figured it would look slightly less weird if I made it roughly cat-shaped to go with the "theme".

In addition to the greenstuff kitty, I added a number of beards and mustaches here and there. Sarissas are mostly after-market metal pokers, but I mixed in a few Victrix/Warlord plastics here and there for variation, and carved a few out of broom bristles just to see if it would work (it does, but can be a little tedious).

I also tried out a few different new (to me) basing techniques as well: 1) mixing wall filler with PVA, paint, and sand --looks alright, but a bit hard to apply if you've already glued down the figures; 2) I also tried just putting down #1 and squishing the figures down into it, which took less time, but didn't feel like they quite "sealed" in... I kind of expect those guys to pop back off eventually; 3) PVA mixed with paint and sand --works, but it shrinks down a lot -which is what I was trying to avoid to begin with- and the sediment isn't all that visible, which kind of defeats the purpose. Eventually I just did the last two squares in my "normal" technique 4) put down glue, sprinkle sand over it, then paint after dry. This takes the least time, and to my eye, looks the best when painted, anyway. But now I know!


Now, onto some horse archers!!  8) 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Codsticker on March 09, 2021, 05:13:57 AM
Nice painting of the patterns on the fabric- well done!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Easy E on March 09, 2021, 03:44:52 PM
Nice pants on those back rankers!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on March 09, 2021, 05:34:34 PM
Thanks! I tried a few different ones just to vary things up. I settled on mostly just dots though because at 25mm anything more intricate just looks like mush, at least with my skills  :D

I wish I could have gotten some better close ups as I'm quite proud of a few of the shields and armor of the rest of the lads as well.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Jjonas on March 09, 2021, 05:57:53 PM
Finally finished up a phalanx I'd been chipping away at for forever the other day.

I'm imagining these lads as a "Bactrian" phalanx. The figures themselves are a mix of older RAFM and (I think) Ral Partha 25mm tinies.

Wow a RAFM and Ral Partha mashup Bactrian phalanx. I have to give you credit for dredging up those old lead dudes. I too had a Bactrian looking group using much the same mix. They got bubbly after a bad storage solution. I think you did a great job of trying to create the feel of the Bactrian phalanx (such that we can surmise) and gave it your own nice touches. I still field my Ral Partha and RAFM phalanxes. In a pinch you can make them thicker sabot trays to allow them to stand up to the 32mm plastic brutes.

Very impressive. Too bad one must still jump through hoops to get this kind of result since modern companies don't do much reaching out into the fringier areas that only covered by 15's now.

Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on March 10, 2021, 12:15:28 PM
Wow a RAFM and Ral Partha mashup Bactrian phalanx. I have to give you credit for dredging up those old lead dudes. I too had a Bactrian looking group using much the same mix. They got bubbly after a bad storage solution. I think you did a great job of trying to create the feel of the Bactrian phalanx (such that we can surmise) and gave it your own nice touches. I still field my Ral Partha and RAFM phalanxes. In a pinch you can make them thicker sabot trays to allow them to stand up to the 32mm plastic brutes.

Very impressive. Too bad one must still jump through hoops to get this kind of result since modern companies don't do much reaching out into the fringier areas that only covered by 15's now.

Thanks for the kind words, Jeff. These guys were actually sind of the first figures I picked up when I started with the hobby about a year ago, before I *really* grasped that they're was a visible difference in scale between newer and older figures  :D

I definitely agree about your second paragraph. I find I'm frequently frustrated when browsing for new figures because I'll come across something that sounds great and niche-specific (Paphlagonian spearmen! Phrygian psiloi!! Or whatever) only to find that they're in 15mm.  :'( It does seem that RAFM was only of the last companies to do a vast range of Successor troops that you didn't necessarily have to kitbash yourself (even if I do enjoy that on some level). I'd love if one of the new plastic companies would take up the band, because the options would be endless. Alas it would be prohibitively expensive, so they've got to follow the money first, which I get
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Jjonas on March 10, 2021, 07:09:11 PM
"I find I'm frequently frustrated when browsing for new figures because I'll come across something that sounds great and niche-specific (Paphlagonian spearmen! Phrygian psiloi!! Or whatever)"

Yep. We have much more 28mm quality than ever, but still there are huge gaps as the basic sell, and the oddballs slip away into the ether. You have to look in all sorts of places for large scale niche Hellenistic figures. Eureka does a Paphlagonian cavalry and peltast set that I have not seen in person, but their figures are generally very trim Vendel made thick and burly Lykians, and are now available through facebook by Thistle and Rose, which have some other larger 28's that fit the Bactrian cause better than others. Some of them are older and not as clean as modern castings- but they fill voids. Like their trousered auxiliaries with Phrygian helmets which could be any eastern hellenized thureophoroi.

Of course things happen in waves. Part of the reason that Minifigs and Naismith and RAFM and others had such large ranges was the lead tin casting material was way cheaper than when everybody shifted from lead. The next waves caused the jump to heroic 28's which dwarfed other 25's and 28's. Then we came to the current plastic revolution where multi part kits solve a lot of issues- but still only cover the top layers in most markets. Part of the plastic revolution comes from the direct to casting from digital sculpts- which was a big jump (too bad I hate Z-Brush! and am too cheap to buy mud box). This is always the gateway to the next level we are already seeing. Print on demand and print at home. This might be the real change that opens up the diversity, where physical sculpts are not even cast, but you just download them into your 3D printer.

Currently separate heads on plastic figures are creating a side line where folks can sculpt extra heads and cast them in resin. Footsore has done this for Victrix hoplites and they add a lot of variety. Maybe someone will see the ability to make Bactrian and other niche helmets and hats for Victrix or other plastic phalangites? Of course that doesn't solve the boots and long sleeves :)



Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: AdamPHayes on March 10, 2021, 09:24:16 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Jeff. These guys were actually sind of the first figures I picked up when I started with the hobby about a year ago, before I *really* grasped that they're was a visible difference in scale between newer and older figures

I wouldn’t stress too much about differences in sizes between old and new figures. I have Essex and Corvus Miniatures figures that have been giving good service in the phalanx for over 30 years now.  Their being painted and based is what counts when they are being pushed around on a table. It’s not often that they are being compared for their height or heft next to the other units!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on March 10, 2021, 09:29:56 PM
"I find I'm frequently frustrated when browsing for new figures because I'll come across something that sounds great and niche-specific (Paphlagonian spearmen! Phrygian psiloi!! Or whatever)"

Yep. We have much more 28mm quality than ever, but still there are huge gaps as the basic sell, and the oddballs slip away into the ether. You have to look in all sorts of places for large scale niche Hellenistic figures. Eureka does a Paphlagonian cavalry and peltast set that I have not seen in person, but their figures are generally very trim Vendel made thick and burly Lykians, and are now available through facebook by Thistle and Rose, which have some other larger 28's that fit the Bactrian cause better than others. Some of them are older and not as clean as modern castings- but they fill voids. Like their trousered auxiliaries with Phrygian helmets which could be any eastern hellenized thureophoroi.

Of course things happen in waves. Part of the reason that Minifigs and Naismith and RAFM and others had such large ranges was the lead tin casting material was way cheaper than when everybody shifted from lead. The next waves caused the jump to heroic 28's which dwarfed other 25's and 28's. Then we came to the current plastic revolution where multi part kits solve a lot of issues- but still only cover the top layers in most markets. Part of the plastic revolution comes from the direct to casting from digital sculpts- which was a big jump (too bad I hate Z-Brush! and am too cheap to buy mud box). This is always the gateway to the next level we are already seeing. Print on demand and print at home. This might be the real change that opens up the diversity, where physical sculpts are not even cast, but you just download them into your 3D printer.

Currently separate heads on plastic figures are creating a side line where folks can sculpt extra heads and cast them in resin. Footsore has done this for Victrix hoplites and they add a lot of variety. Maybe someone will see the ability to make Bactrian and other niche helmets and hats for Victrix or other plastic phalangites? Of course that doesn't solve the boots and long sleeves :)

It's crazy how fast the tech moves! I swear like a year ago, guys were saying that 3D printing was great for things like terrain, but was impractical for 28mm figures because you could still see the resin lines, which were impractical to sand at that scale. But here we are! I do wonder how much it'll change things, because right now it's still just a liiiiitttttle to pricey to plunk down the change for individual 3D figures for, say, a whole phalanx. But five years from now? Who knows! It does make me wonder about the impact it'll have on manufacturers, and if it'll actually drive the scarcity we're talking about even further, because I've heard that it is obscenely expensive to produce plastic sprues.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on March 10, 2021, 09:32:07 PM
I wouldn’t stress too much about differences in sizes between old and new figures. I have Essex and Corvus Miniatures figures that have been giving good service in the phalanx for over 30 years now.  Their being painted and based is what counts when they are being pushed around on a table. It’s not often that they are being compared for their height or heft next to the other units!

True! It's just frustrating when trying to mix and match figures within the same unit :) Like I've got a few beautifully sculpted Thracians from Footsore, but I can't mix them in with my RAFM/Minifigs Thracians without them looking like they've got a few gods of war on their side  lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/6 -- Bactrian Phalanx completed)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on March 28, 2021, 07:13:59 PM
Since finishing up the phalanx a few weeks ago, I've been working on some nomadic horsemen allies for my Seleucids/Bactrians. I've got a ton of horses painted up, so now I'm working through the riders themselves. I'm focusing on them in groups of 3 so I can give them an okay amount of detail without driving myself crazy  o_o I figure I'll just share photos for each grouping of 3 I finish up!

First up are these guys from Wargames Foundry. I varied the painting on the horses a little bit, just so I don't end up with a couple dozen Scythians all riding clones of the same horse :D I went "loud" in one guy's garb, and balanced it with something a little more subdued for the other. Got a lot of practice with the old "toothpick method" for the spots on these lads' clothes, which I guess serves as a stand-in for all the tiny designs that would never in a million years show up in 28mm :D

I took way longer than I wanted to on the fellow with no shirt, just because I still haven't found a skin formula that I like, or that I can get to consistently work! But in the end I think it turned out okay. I also tried to add some of those "Scythian tattoos" to the bare skin, with... mixed results. It's just one of those skills I'm still working on the balance of. Like, you want to represent the tattoos, but in reality, the lines you are able to physically draw on a mini are actually going to be about the same width as the lines in the actual (1:1 scale) tattoo. Hoping I can get that sorted before I move on to my Galatians!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/28 -- Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Hu Rhu on March 28, 2021, 09:29:09 PM
Very nice.  If you want to use transfers instead pf painting , then I believe the Warlord Celts have a set in their box.  Alternatively you might want to try a fine pen to draw the lines rather than a toothpick.  0.5 or 0.7 might work.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (3/28 -- Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on March 30, 2021, 04:54:11 PM
Yeah I actually have a small marker that I thought might work for tattoos but then it was almost like the lines were *too* small...

Anywho I have another three Scythians almost done that I'll post when I get some time and finish the basing. I'm really enjoying making these individualized warriors! It helps not having to do them in groups of 32  :D :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on April 10, 2021, 07:55:39 PM
I "finished" a few more Scythian horsemen allies the other day. Pictures aren't the greatest, but you get the idea! (Figures from Wargames Foundry). I tried a few different things this time, with mixed results.

For the archer in the reddish tunic, I decided to try and depict his bowcase covered in... human scalps (or fur, if that grosses you out :D ). I don't know of Scythians doing this specifically, but we hear of them hanging scalps off of their horses' bridles, and making capes out of them, so... why not? Instead of using green stuff, I tried using static grass, which ended up looking a lot more "scruffy" than I was hoping. I also cut a bit of twine and glued that to the side. Fresh scalp! I covered the "hair" with watered down PVA with some brown paint in it, then just kind of highlighted here and there. Didn't come out quite like it looked in my head, and I will definitely do it differently next time, but that's half the fun, isn't it?

For the guy in the pink-ish tunic: I was mostly basing him off of an old(er) reconstruction of a Scythian warrior from some museum I'd seen in a book somewhere. Gave him a snow leopard skin bowcase for the same reason I tried the human hair one up above :D

Also painted the horses all different for some variation.

I've actually got a bunch of horses painted up and waiting for the riders to be done, but I think I'm going to try and crack out a different unit in the next week or so that I've been working on off and on for forever, so look out for that soon :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on April 20, 2021, 02:43:52 AM
I'm about half done painting up my kitbashed unit of 24 "Bactrian Royal Guard", when I decide to mix it up a little and do some more head swaps, reposition arms, etc., at least on the unpainted minis.
.....and this is why it takes me forever to finish anything lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: AdamPHayes on April 21, 2021, 08:01:00 PM
Can’t wait to see them after this build up!😉
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on April 22, 2021, 03:04:50 PM
Can’t wait to see them after this build up!😉

I thought of showing WIP pics, but figure most folks are more interested in the finished product anyway, so I'd just wait till the whole group is done  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Richard in Sachsen on April 28, 2021, 05:31:03 PM
Fantastic. I'm late to this thread but I wanted to say that the detail that strikes me is how the commander's bronze shield pops out from the blue ones. Just one admirable detail among many with your painting.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on April 28, 2021, 06:46:39 PM
Fantastic. I'm late to this thread but I wanted to say that the detail that strikes me is how the commander's bronze shield pops out from the blue ones. Just one admirable detail among many with your painting.

Thanks for the kind words! I'm still "learning" how to paint, so I try and do different things all the time.... which makes everything take forever, but I feel better about the results that way :D (I still don't have a standard "formula" for painting skin, for instance.)

I've also from the beginning tried to avoid the "CTRL + V" issue that seems pretty common with wargaming; the logical part of my brain knows most of these guys would *not* have been 100% identical in the ancient world, so I try to reflect that......... even when I'm putting together a Royal Guard unit where *theoretically* they'd be more likely to all wearing the same stuff, I can't resist making them all slightly different lol

Speaking of which, I'm hoping to be done with my "Bactrian Royal Guard" unit within the next week or 10 days... stay tuned!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on May 10, 2021, 05:00:05 AM
Naturally, I decided I needed to paint eyes on at least some of the lads, so it's gonna be a bit longer lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on June 15, 2021, 10:46:45 PM
Okay! At long last, I got my Bactrian "agema" unit to a "photograph-able" point. Looking at the images now, I can tell I'm going to have to re-do a few of the eyes (yet another reason to not paint them in the first place, I suppose! :D )

The unit was built from a core of Victrix Theban Hoplites (using the ones with the metal breastplates). To get up to 24 figures, I added a few metal Foundry Thebans, some Wargames Factory hoplite bodies, and I think there's even one or two Warlord/Immortal (i.e. shrimpy) hoplites in there somewhere as well!

Most of the lads got Boeotian helmets from the Victrix Thebans kit, since this is at least commonly attested on Bactrian coins. Of course, I couldn't leave well enough alone, and ended up doing several other head-swaps as well: a few from the Wargames Atlantic Persians box (to give that "Eastern look"! :D ), a kausia-behatted chap from Aventine, a handsome bald-headed fellow from Mad Robot (for that Fremitus verisimilitude! lol ), and one or two other random "Greek" heads I had lying around.

Almost all of them got dodgy greenstuff capes, and I thought many of them were looking a little too clean-cut, so I added a bunch of beards as well.

The standard is made from a pushbroom bristle (the rest of the spears are out-of-the-box Victrix plastic ones, most of which broke during the build... oof!) The image on the standard, as well as the images on the shields were made by me in my knockoff version of Photoshop, based on coins of Demetrius I of Bactria, and printed onto waterslide paper.

The individual bases (and the movement tray) were a multi-step process. I've settled on this Frankenstein formula of a mix of Modpodge, wall-filler, brown/dark paint, and fine sand, which I put down to both add texture to the bases and get the "ground" up to the level of the figures' feet (I've found it difficult to do that with just glue). After that dries I put down another thin layer Woodland scenics terrain glue (which I think is just watered down Modpodge, but who knows...) and sprinkle some grittier sand and pebbles, overbrush it all in a tan color, then "highlight" it with a mix of "bone" color and Vallejo "Iraqi Sand", before adding a bit of vegetation.

Anyway, I think that's everything. Comments/questions/suggestions are more than welcome!

 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: Pattus Magnus on June 16, 2021, 04:59:43 AM
I can’t comment on the historical accuracy, but the figures sure look good! The printed decals worked great.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: tomek917 on June 16, 2021, 06:55:58 AM
These look great, very well done!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: Easy E on June 16, 2021, 01:37:04 PM
Great looking unit.  Very characterful.  I admit, I am never 100% how to make Agema units.  They get really confusing to me when I read about them historically.  I am not sure if they are Hoplites, Peltasts, a hybrid, or something else entirely!

For bases, I use a type of spackle that starts purple, and then dries to white.  While purple I sprinkle in sand.  The color change really helps me not get too eager and wait for them to dry.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: Jjonas on June 16, 2021, 05:46:13 PM
A fine looking unit of Frontiersmen. I think you went the extra mile to capture the idea of what a Hellenistic unit might have looked like at Ai-Khanoum, aka Alexandria on the Oxus as Bactria slipped away from western influence. I too find all sorts of issues with painting when I take photos. Your eye does not always see everything in 3D. I have to close one eye to see the same boo boos the camera sees. Plus it is brave to zoom in close to 28mm figures. I wish I had as nice a unit of Bactrians. Back in the day I had a unit of single posed RAFM and Ral Partha versions, but they fell into decay as all things do. I still wish there was a nice range of Bactrians with fancy brimmed Boeotian style helms and boots and long shirts like those old Ral Parthas.


Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on June 16, 2021, 08:06:10 PM
Thanks for the comments, guys!


I can’t comment on the historical accuracy, but the figures sure look good! The printed decals worked great.

The fun thing with Greco-Bactrians is there's so little "hard data" that you get to fill in the gaps yourself :) I decided that since these guys were the Royal Guard, they'd maybe look "a little more Greek" than other units, though I tried to mix in some other hints of "eastern-ness" as well. And while I couldn't fathom walking around in 40lbs of metal in Central Asia, the Greek-ish cuirassed figure is at least partially attested in the (rather later) golden belt buckle from Tilya Tepe.

As for the decals: this is the 3rd or 4th time I've done it after lifting the idea from Jeff's website :D Can't argue with the results!

Quote from: Easy E
Great looking unit.  Very characterful.  I admit, I am never 100% how to make Agema units.  They get really confusing to me when I read about them historically.  I am not sure if they are Hoplites, Peltasts, a hybrid, or something else entirely!

Agreed. It doesn't help that the sources don't seem to be consistent on the issue. Then again, as anachronistic as this might be, I try to think of "agema" type units as like the "special forces" of their day: heavy infantry when need be, able to skirmish and go stealthy, or just stand around all day on guard duty lol

Quote from: Jjonas
A fine looking unit of Frontiersmen. I think you went the extra mile to capture the idea of what a Hellenistic unit might have looked like at Ai-Khanoum, aka Alexandria on the Oxus as Bactria slipped away from western influence.

Thanks! I really wanted to make something that looked unique and "custom", without venturing into the realm of implausibility. It helps that I really enjoy the kitbashing side of the hobby :)

Quote
I too find all sorts of issues with painting when I take photos. Your eye does not always see everything in 3D. I have to close one eye to see the same boo boos the camera sees. Plus it is brave to zoom in close to 28mm figures.

Weird how that works, isn't it? In the end I usually stop when it's something I'm pleased with from 2 ft away or whatever, but then I'm not submitting photos to magazines or running a nice wargaming website :D

Quote
I wish I had as nice a unit of Bactrians. Back in the day I had a unit of single posed RAFM and Ral Partha versions, but they fell into decay as all things do. I still wish there was a nice range of Bactrians with fancy brimmed Boeotian style helms and boots and long shirts like those old Ral Parthas.

I think I have a few of those guys mixed in with my unit of blast-from-the-past 25mm phalangites from a few pages back in this thread! But I agree, this is an area that seems oddly well-represented 20 years ago, but has really dried up in recent times. More room for kitbashing, I guess!


 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: AdamPHayes on June 16, 2021, 11:09:49 PM
Okay! At long last, I got my Bactrian "agema" unit to a "photograph-able" point. Looking at the images now, I can tell I'm going to have to re-do a few of the eyes (yet another reason to not paint them in the first place, I suppose! :D )

The unit was built from a core of Victrix Theban Hoplites (using the ones with the metal breastplates). To get up to 24 figures, I added a few metal Foundry Thebans, some Wargames Factory hoplite bodies, and I think there's even one or two Warlord/Immortal (i.e. shrimpy) hoplites in there somewhere as well!

Most of the lads got Boeotian helmets from the Victrix Thebans kit,

Excellent unit! ( I am secretly hoping that more of those Victrix hoplites get used as Bactrian Greeks than as Theban Greeks...  ;) )
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on June 17, 2021, 12:22:09 PM
Excellent unit! ( I am secretly hoping that more of those Victrix hoplites get used as Bactrian Greeks than as Theban Greeks...  ;) )
Thanks  :D Not sure there's much risk of the rest of them turning into actual Thebans! I've already co-opted a bunch of the bodies for a different kitbashed Bactrian unit, kind of a mix of Persian and Greek armored spearmen. Not sure when that'll be done as I'm still in the building stage and I do like thirty projects at once, but still...
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (4/10 -- More Scythian Horse Archers)
Post by: Jjonas on June 17, 2021, 04:08:39 PM
Excellent unit! ( I am secretly hoping that more of those Victrix hoplites get used as Bactrian Greeks than as Theban Greeks...  ;) )

Wow, the anti Theban coalition speaketh :)
"Freedom!"
~ Epaminondas at Mantinea
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: sgzleada71 on June 20, 2021, 07:30:40 AM
Cool project FB.   Nice unique colour scheme and making your own shield transfers adds a lot. 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on June 21, 2021, 07:38:54 PM
Cool project FB.   Nice unique colour scheme and making your own shield transfers adds a lot.

Thanks! Making everything unique certainly takes longer, but I think it's worth it :)
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: Westbury on June 30, 2021, 09:23:11 AM
This project is coming along really nicely
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (6/15 -- Bactrian Royal Guard infantry)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on July 01, 2021, 11:48:33 PM
This project is coming along really nicely

Slow and steady wins the race? lol
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/7 -- Cretan Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 08, 2021, 12:27:17 AM
Really slow progress on a few different things the last couple of months. Latest update is a small unit of Cretan archers. They are the (older?) Warlord metal sculpts. The more time I spent with them the less enchanted I was by the sculpts themselves (on the smaller end, lots of muddled details, etc), but I powered through as best as I could. Went with the tried and true method of hopefully distracting sub-par models/painting with decent basing  lol

Also attempted to freehand some shields this time too, with mixed results. They pass the arm's length test I think, if nothing else.

I usually make a movement tray for new units, but I couldn't quite figure out what to do for archers. Do you guys usually have a movement tray for yours, or just keep them separate like this?  ???


Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/7 -- Cretan Archers)
Post by: Jjonas on September 08, 2021, 04:03:45 AM
Nice job- granted they look more like smaller scale figures than 28mm we are used to. The lack of detail is problematic. They have decent poses, at least a bit more animated than many. I would like more kneeling offerings for skirmishers.

As for basing, I put my skirmishers on washers or some metal or magnet base for travel and set up. Often after setup they lose the tray, but magnets keep them safe.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/7 -- Cretan Archers)
Post by: trev on September 09, 2021, 10:37:24 AM
I like the Agema and Cretans. Great painting and choices.  I've always had a soft spot for the Bactians, since my grandmother bought me a historical atlas as a kid.  Discovering huge countires you've never heard of is the closest I'll ever get to being an explorer.  lol 
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/7 -- Cretan Archers)
Post by: AdamPHayes on September 10, 2021, 09:43:01 PM
 Nice Cretans. I suppose it depends how uptight your chosen rules are about unit formations. A scattered group of individual figures works as skirmishers for me.
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/7 -- Cretan Archers)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 12, 2021, 03:29:11 PM
Thanks, guys. It's been slow going the last few months, partially because of real life, partially because I've got a lot of plates spinning so it takes forever to finish any one thing  :D
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/7 -- Cretan Archers)
Post by: rafm3ic on September 14, 2021, 06:59:34 PM
The painting is brilliant!
Title: Re: My Macedonian/Successors project - (9/23-- Scythian Chieftain)
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 23, 2021, 10:09:13 PM
Just a quick update for today--

I finished up painting/basing a Scythian chieftain-type from Foundry. I don't think I did any modifications to this one, but it's been so long since I originally primed it that I don't remember lol

I experimented with some longer Noch grass that you cut to size, to try and hide the silly molded supports under the horsey's front legs (practical, but they ruin the illusion for me...)

Also tried to be as "historically accurate" as possible, basing it on some images in Barry Cunliffe's Scythians book.

Hoping to have another small batch of Scythians ready soon, as well as a pair of Old Glory (I think? Maybe RAFM?) Indian elephants I've been picking at for forever.