Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Old West => Topic started by: Cacique Caribe on July 09, 2020, 12:56:38 PM
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If so, were they more like alley ambushes in town, or did the triads (tongs) also have their own gunslingers?
Are there suitable rules for such mixed clashes?
Thanks
Dan
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Not sure the Triads had much of a presence in the US in those days, if at all. I think the Tongs were at the forefront back then, and they were mostly based in big cities with large immigrant populations, such as San Francisco and New York, where they controlled drugs and prostitution in the Chinese community.
They fought among themselves a lot, and they used guns, so I guess the guys with guns could be called gunslingers. Don't think they ever got into the cattle business, though, so probably didn't run into too many cowboys. You don't read much about the Tong wars outside of big cities, leading me to assume they had little or no influence outside of those areas. But who knows? Some other LAFer, hopefully.
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Dan,
I’m sure any Western rules would work fine for such games. Just a matter of figuring out how to rate the gang members. Pulp Alley would be another choice. Bob Murch as useful figures on his Pulp Figures website.
Nick
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Have you watched “Warrior” by any chance?
Rival Tong gangs in 1870 San Francisco. One episode went out west and there was a classic gunfight mixed with the martial arts stuff. Plenty of inspiration there for some skirmish games.
My preference would be Fistful of Lead Core rules Loads of options to personalise your gangs. The Tong would be easy to stat up using various traits that are available. I think they suit your needs perfectly.
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Dead Mans Hand (the curse of) has a Tong gang with rules etc.
Legends of the Old West had rules for Chinese/Tong miniatures IIRC.
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Dracula's America includes the Black Dragon Tong - while they have some supernatural abilities they could easily be played without these.
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Not quite what you're after but I seem to recall some riots of Chinese railroad workers in Canada needing the Mounties to be deployed
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Have you watched “Warrior” by any chance?
Rival Tong gangs in 1870 San Francisco. One episode went out west and there was a classic gunfight mixed with the martial arts stuff. Plenty of inspiration there for some skirmish games.
My preference would be Fistful of Lead Core rules Loads of options to personalise your gangs. The Tong would be easy to stat up using various traits that are available. I think they suit your needs perfectly.
I'd second that, 'Warrior' was a great series with plenty of inspiration for scenarios as Malamute points out. Fistful of Lead are my goto skirmish set for all periods, very flexible and give a good, fast narrative game with the advantage I don't have to learn multiple sets of rules.
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If so, were they more like alley ambushes in town, or did the triads also have their own gunslingers?
Are there suitable rules for such mixed clashes?
Thanks
Dan
Hey Dan, good to hear from you. I'm not sure about Cowboys & Triads, but I watched a documentary a few years back about Cowboys & Aliens. Does that count? Daniel Craig was there.......no wonder he is too old to play James Bond anymore.
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Tongs were part of the Chinese worker camps for the transcontinental railroad and there is at least one newspaper account of open fighting breaking out between two "companies" of Chinese toward the completion of the line. The account mentions "weapons of all conceivable type" -- picks, spades, hatchets, "infernal devices", and even gunfire.
One could easily set up a scenario between Chinese railroad workers, Irish workers (who could side with or against the Chinese, depending on the scenario), and railroad thugs/guards/hired guns.
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The Wild Wild West, season 1, episode 17: The Night the Dragon Screamed.
: 3
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The Wild Wild West, season 1, episode 17: The Night the Dragon Screamed.
: 3
Hmm. Doesn’t ring a bell. And I can’t seem to find the video anywhere.
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YouTube has it, I watched it last week.
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Also on DailyMotion.
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Johnno is correct that Legends of the Old West (Warhammer Historical series) had a tong band - but it was in the "Showdown" supplement, not the original rules. But sadly the whole series is out of print and pricey to buy.
-Michael
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For research let me refer you to;
Screst William B., California Feuds, word Dancer Press, 2005.
Several blacksmiths made the tong weapons, including one John Carr of Weaverville. There were several fights in the town of Weaverville, First between the Chinese faction of "Red Caps" and former residents of Canton. Then it crossed over into the non-Chinese miners including a Swede named Jan Malmberg, who shot into a Chinese group and then was himself shot. There were fights in Marysille, Greenwood and Sacramento. The corner of Fifth and J street had a fight in September 8 1854. Primarily between Chinese and Police.
There was a fight involving rifles and pistols in Tuolumne county in 1856, over mining rights. Near a place called Rock river ranch. something like 1200 participants. Numerous dead and wounded, hundreds of shots fired. The rivals were Sam-Yaps and the Yan-Wo. The Sheriff James Stewart, deputies and a posse managed to arrest some 250.
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Thank you Sir Leadfool!
Excellent information. Hopefully it will lead me to many more of those useful and juicy bits about that time and region.
Dan
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Said sheriff:
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQFlEOtlLOYISt5367UhI3CXmpxXMsx_1tHfg&usqp=CAU)
Robert
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Lol. Good.
Dan
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i didn't catch the name of the sheriff. Sometimes it just works out that way. My home county in California, Yolo County had a sheriff named Bart Simpson for a while.
other books to look up are;
From Canton to California 1976, Corinne Hoexter,
Bury my bones in America 1998, Lani Farkas.
The days of the Tong wars 1974, C.Y. Lee
Pigtails and gold dust 1947, Alexander McLeod
The Hatchet men 1962, Richard Dillon
The Chinese in San Francisco 1979. Laverne Dicker
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By the way, if any of you need to add Asian (mostly Chinese) signs and graffiti to your shacks and buildings, check out the signs and other visual ideas offered here:
http://fireflychinese.kevinsullivansite.net/faq.html
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=340555
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=93425.msg1153323#msg1153323
Dan
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My home county in California, Yolo County had a sheriff named Bart Simpson for a while.
I hope he caught a cattle rustler and said, "Don't have a cow, man."
... sorry ...
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Funny Cubs Funny.
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A bar brawl should be awesome too, if the two groups were to clash inside an establishment, don’t you think?
Dan
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I think leadfool covered it but I did remember seeing about a clash between Chinese workers and non Chinese on a gold field either in America or Australia ?
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3fingers2....I don't know about Australia, but in CA. The fight you are thinking of may be the fight at Rock River. ranch in Toulumne county. When the Sheriff and Posse showed up. To arrest 250 Chinese there must have been some fighting. It is easy to see how that could get out of hand. Some trigger happy member of the Posse decides to settle some old score and ....?
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https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068093/
Just a thought!
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3fingers2....I don't know about Australia, but in CA. The fight you are thinking of may be the fight at Rock River. ranch in Toulumne county. When the Sheriff and Posse showed up. To arrest 250 Chinese there must have been some fighting. It is easy to see how that could get out of hand. Some trigger happy member of the Posse decides to settle some old score and ....?
I’ve had another delve into it , as typically it was bugging me and it was actually Australia 🙄 lambing flat riots 👍
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Lambing Flats.......well that is a great name. Tell us more. 3fingers2.
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The Lambing Flat Riots (1860-1861) were a series of violent anti-Chinese demonstrations that took place in the Burrangong region, in New South Wales, Australia. They occurred on the goldfields at Spring Creek, Stoney Creek, Back Creek, Wombat, Blackguard Gully, Tipperary Gully, and Lambing Flat.
Source - Wikipedia but taught back when I was at school.
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Much useful has been said already, but I will add that Fistful of KungFu seems like the prefect ruleset for such a game.
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Burrangong, Wombat and Lambing Flats. Sounds like a great name for a Railroad.