Lead Adventure Forum

Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: Von Stroheim on September 25, 2020, 12:35:50 AM

Title: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Von Stroheim on September 25, 2020, 12:35:50 AM
New series Barbarians on Netflix next month.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mBnYJcZJ-A
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Inkpaduta on September 25, 2020, 02:26:52 AM
Looks good. Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 25, 2020, 02:39:35 AM
I love that it's apparently performed in the modern versions of the proper languages (German and Italian). The name is a bit generic, but maybe that means season 2 will focus on other "barbarians"? We can only hope!  :o
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Coenus Scaldingus on September 25, 2020, 06:23:14 AM
Definitely liking the use of German and Italian. Difficult to say much about it beyond that yet, but will certainly be watching it for a bit.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on September 25, 2020, 09:21:49 AM
Looks to have potential, thanks for the heads up. A German production I believe, I have heard some Germans complaining about the use of High German. For a second there watching the trailer I thought, “Hey! What is Brutus doing there?”
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: FierceKitty on September 26, 2020, 12:16:05 AM
More dam' Trajanic shields! I'll pass.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Captain Harlock on September 26, 2020, 01:48:36 AM
The use of italian and german language is refreshing for sure. I really hate the stereotype of the Romans with posh british accent. The trailer looks pretty ok, I will watch it. Im a sucker for historical series/drama anyway I watch even the most terrible stinkers  lol. I noticed a Lagertha from Lidl in the trailer. Lets hope that we wont have full shieldmaiden units like in Vikings  lol
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: williamb on September 26, 2020, 03:22:15 AM
There is a brief moment near the 36 second mark showing a roman wearing an elaborate exercise/sports helmet.  Face fully covered.  Highly unlikely to be worn on a campaign.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Maniac on September 26, 2020, 04:24:56 AM
I'll have to check it out.  It will definitely be Hollywood fare in places, which will not be good, but it may have other redeeming qualities.

Last Kingdom was terrible for armor and equipment, as well as scale, but the plot was decent.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on September 26, 2020, 07:58:21 AM
My wife and I greatly enjoy Last Kingdom but the costuming, particularly the armor, is very disappointing. Not even really coolthentic either, except for the Mercian Riders of Rohan.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Johnp4000 on September 26, 2020, 11:09:09 AM
If this is the series where they use civil rights leaders to make comparisons between current day America , the CSA and the Roman empire , I think you will be disappointed. Apparently the freedom loving democratic barbarians including Hannibal(not sure what he would have thought of being called a barbarian?)were fighting the Romans to rid the world of slavery. They seem to be unware that slavery existed in every ancient culture.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on September 26, 2020, 12:03:08 PM
There is a brief moment near the 36 second mark showing a roman wearing an elaborate exercise/sports helmet.  Face fully covered.  Highly unlikely to be worn on a campaign.

I figured it was a nod to one of the more famous artefacts from the Varian Disaster, which is exactly one of those. I've seen it up close at Kalkriese. You can even see where some German even came back later and peeled away the original gold foil covering. I admit I always kind of wondered what a guy was doing with it on campaign, but I guess people have brought crazier stuff to warzones 😁
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Muzfish4 on October 03, 2020, 06:55:58 AM
I figured it was a nod to one of the more famous artefacts from the Varian Disaster, which is exactly one of those. I've seen it up close at Kalkriese. You can even see where some German even came back later and peeled away the original gold foil covering. I admit I always kind of wondered what a guy was doing with it on campaign, but I guess people have brought crazier stuff to warzones 😁

I understand a lot of the academic though around the Varian disaster/victory (depending on your point of view) is that it wasn't a campaign in the strictest sense in that Varus thought he was moving through (erroneously as it turned out) a thoroughly pacified province and was collecting taxes and mediating in local disputes and suchlike as a provincial governor rather than actively campaigning against an enemy with a large standing army (or armies) in the field, hence the devastating surprise when ambushed. So it isn't beyond the bounds of possibility that extraneous junk was being carted about to impress locals* and keep the squaddies amused. That one of these pieces (that modern archaeologists refer to as 'sports equipment') has been found at the site lends credence to having it in the show.

*If memory serves Caesar has mosaics in his baggage when campaigning in Gaul to add a touch of home to his digs and impress locals with the benefits of Roman civilization.


Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Westbury on October 10, 2020, 10:38:40 PM
Oh dear :o
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Ockius on October 11, 2020, 09:20:16 AM
If this is the series where they use civil rights leaders to make comparisons between current day America , the CSA and the Roman empire , I think you will be disappointed. Apparently the freedom loving democratic barbarians including Hannibal(not sure what he would have thought of being called a barbarian?)were fighting the Romans to rid the world of slavery. They seem to be unware that slavery existed in every ancient culture.

I had a look into it and that seems to be a different series, Barbarians Rising, from a few years back. I didn’t watch it but reading about it annoyed me. The rewriting of history to fit present day aims or ideologies really bugs me and it seems to be picking up lots of momentum.

Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: moiterei_1984 on October 11, 2020, 11:05:32 AM
Looks like for the first time in years I‘ll have reason to turn on the TV other than to play PlayStation  :D
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Mindenbrush on October 23, 2020, 10:47:38 PM
Just watched episode 1, not bad.

Stirrups?
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Tim Haslam on October 24, 2020, 07:28:52 AM
Watched 3 episodes last night!
I thoroughly enjoyed it, warts ‘n all.

Very weird though?
The Romans were still speaking Latin with subtitles, but the German had been dubbed into English??
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Sir_Theo on October 24, 2020, 03:30:50 PM
Check your subtitle settings on Netflix. For me at least both Latin and German was subtitled, no dubbing.

I had English subtitles and German audio as my options if that helps.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Tim Haslam on October 24, 2020, 04:14:00 PM
So I can change just one language?
I didn’t know that.
I shall have a poke around the settings.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on October 24, 2020, 04:26:49 PM
I'm liking it so far! I made sure to double-check my settings and make sure they were all speaking the correct languages, so yeah you can do it. I know both, so I was pretty excited when I saw the preliminary info that this wasn't just going to be another production where the Romans are all speaking the Queen's English. Actually Tim, it's interesting to hear that they would leave the Latin as subtitles, but dub the German into English; the promo materials kind of suggested we'd identify with the "barbarians" and the Romans are the weird outsiders, so that makes sense.

Anyway, I agree that there are a few flaws, but compared to most productions like this, I'm liking what I'm seeing :)
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on October 24, 2020, 04:51:03 PM
So, is not another ultramegasexy noble Northern Barbarians (tm) fight -and this time defeat- the Evil Romans (tm) production? á la Britannia?  ???
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on October 24, 2020, 04:55:42 PM
So, is not another ultramegasexy noble Northern Barbarians (tm) fight -and this time defeat- the Evil Romans (tm) production? á la Britannia?  ???

Correct  lol It's actually really well-made, which you can never be sure about with stuff like this. Usually it seems they blow all their energy on either the costuming or the story, but never both :D
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Silent bob on October 25, 2020, 08:55:51 AM
FWIW, I quite liked it.....OK too much splather and not enough battle...but I have seen (far) worse representations of Romans (e.g. leather segmenta armour) and the army marching (episode 6) looked, (for me) very expensive - i.e. it almost had me searching figure catalogues/websites......
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: commissarmoody on October 25, 2020, 11:35:53 AM
Well two episodes in and it's not horrible.  Kind of enjoying it. But poor Wolfspeer did get two concussions already. Waiting to see if he will last long enough, for his TBIs to be a issue.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Sterling Moose on October 25, 2020, 11:53:31 AM
Spoiler alert - shame they didn't stick to the historical narrative as per the archaeological evidence for the final battle.  The circumstances surrounding the fate of Varus don't ring true either.  Still not a bad jaunt back to 9AD.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on October 25, 2020, 12:08:37 PM
Well two episodes in and it's not horrible.  Kind of enjoying it. But poor Wolfspeer did get two concussions already. Waiting to see if he will last long enough, for his TBIs to be a issue.

I had the same thought lol It's almost like a trope they thought they couldn't avoid, barbarians/cavemen/etc clubbing each other constantly. It was forgivable, but was a little weird when kind of a central event was [Spoiler Alert!!!] Thusnelda's brother getting brain damage from a Roman who....hit him in the head. [/Spoiler]
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: commissarmoody on October 25, 2020, 12:14:45 PM
True, sadly that trope that is here to stay. Kind of like being shot or stabbed in the shoulder has no effect on the hero's ability to fight, and doesn't hit any nerves or arteries.  lol
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Maniac on October 25, 2020, 01:42:19 PM
Watched the first episode last night, and color me unimpressed.  Full marks for production level (fantastic costuming and scenery), but minus 10 million for the silly 4 man invasion of a Roman camp.  It went full on Hollywood at that point.

Not sure I can be bothered to watch the next episode.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: gamer Mac on October 25, 2020, 01:47:12 PM
I watch some and it was ok but it was only three men and a girl lol lol lol
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Sir Barnaby Hammond-Rye on October 25, 2020, 02:27:37 PM
There is a brief moment near the 36 second mark showing a roman wearing an elaborate exercise/sports helmet.  Face fully covered.  Highly unlikely to be worn on a campaign.

I thought that was the old view, and that more recent opinion, based partly on re-enactor's trials, was more favourable.

Part of the argument was that it would restrict vision, but apparently that has not found to be the case with the replicas.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Inkpaduta on October 26, 2020, 12:16:38 AM
Looking forward to see it but gave a sigh that there had to be other woman warrior.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: commissarmoody on October 26, 2020, 05:06:25 AM
Finished episode 4 really starting to get annoyed with the Merry Sue. Costumes are still great though.  lol
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on October 26, 2020, 06:36:43 AM
I thought that was the old view, and that more recent opinion, based partly on re-enactor's trials, was more favourable.

Part of the argument was that it would restrict vision, but apparently that has not found to be the case with the replicas.

I wouldn't put too much faith in re-enactor's trials, though. Their value as evidence is very limited. 
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on October 27, 2020, 08:45:53 AM
I think I had a dream last night about Tacitus rolling uncomfortably in his grave  lol
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Captain Blood on October 27, 2020, 09:17:48 AM
Started watching it. A couple of episodes in. Quite like it. They’ve made a pretty good fist of the Romans’ armour and so on. Better than usual. Not sure the Romans all looking like modern Italians has quite the right feel, but it’s a small gripe.
The story is tripe, of course, and the lead characters cartoonish stereotypes who behave in all the improbable and melodramatic ways you’d expect them to.  But that’s generally the case with these sorts of ‘historical’ series. So far, I way prefer it to the execrable ‘The Last Kingdom’ at any rate  ::)
I shall stick with it.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on October 27, 2020, 10:10:00 AM
Why do all so called 'barbarian' characters seem to have mullets of varying states of 80's-ness?   lol

Lost Kingdom, Vikings and now Barbarians..... do they know something that the historians don't?  lol

Watched the whole series. 4/10 from my personal perspective.

Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on October 27, 2020, 10:15:54 AM
So far, I way prefer it to the execrable ‘The Last Kingdom’ at any rate

Perhaps it's a cultural thing as I much easier endure the BS on offer in "Last Kingdom" than the – admittedly similar – presentation of "Barbarians". :D
I'm a sucker for all things Roman. So I watch it anyway. But that whole Arminius/Teutoburg arc has been done to death in German historical culture. And despite its eschewal of nationalistic tropes the show adds nothing new to the mix. Germanic people may be less hairy and less idealistic but all the more ill-mannered underdogs just interested in their 'freedom' (whatever that means). Meanwhile the 'appeal' of Roman culture again seems limited to a treacherous longing for power or simply forced breakup with one's family. Added to that, an evil empire, fair bit of gore, a leading warrioress character – there's a lot of lazy writing.

Well, nerds like me aren't easy to please and there will be many others perfectly happy with the show as it is. It's definitely a step up in production values – if not in sound engineering, the original German is really hard to understand at times. I just had hoped for a more innovative bit of story-telling.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Sterling Moose on October 27, 2020, 10:30:14 AM
Quote
Why do all so called 'barbarian' characters seem to have mullets of varying states of 80's-ness?


Maybe they took their lead from the Perry Bros, their Ancient Germans sported a variety of hairstyles.

Swabian knot anyone?
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on October 27, 2020, 11:12:05 AM


Maybe they took their lead from the Perry Bros, their Ancient Germans sported a variety of hairstyles.

Swabian knot anyone?

Swabian knots are one thing......

(https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/8059d7b6-fc57-44ff-9a40-0084ded634c7/d8hhpo0-2b28521b-22a6-4035-afcc-f9f78f43ef45.jpg/v1/fill/w_800,h_1139,q_75,strp/osterby_men_ilmarinenkowal_by_ilmarinenkowal_d8hhpo0-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3siaGVpZ2h0IjoiPD0xMTM5IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvODA1OWQ3YjYtZmM1Ny00NGZmLTlhNDAtMDA4NGRlZDYzNGM3XC9kOGhocG8wLTJiMjg1MjFiLTIyYTYtNDAzNS1hZmNjLWY5Zjc4ZjQzZWY0NS5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9ODAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.oQgvMC7OTypRyDzcoM-NltmYLwH2c3lVU7IYSh5pE8o)

This is quite another.......
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Belgian on October 27, 2020, 06:42:04 PM
Binge-watched the series last weekend and although I enjoyed the setting and uniforms I was less impressed by the acting, storyline and especially the actual battle ...

As the series seem to focus on the battle of Teutoburg Forest it was really a shame that the battle was so fantasy in tactics and wasn't really inspired by the actual battle fought on three days probably with much less fire ... lol Also no mention of the earthen wall and trench that said really disappointed and although not bad, it wasn't very good either. The Germans talking German and the Romans Latin was interesting and great touch but would have prefered a more decent storyline and especially battle.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Maniac on October 28, 2020, 12:13:16 AM
Binge-watched the series last weekend and although I enjoyed the setting and uniforms I was less impressed by the acting, storyline and especially the actual battle ...

As the series seem to focus on the battle of Teutoburg Forest it was really a shame that the battle was so fantasy in tactics and wasn't really inspired by the actual battle fought on three days probably with much less fire ... lol Also no mention of the earthen wall and trench that said really disappointed and although not bad, it wasn't very good either. The Germans talking German and the Romans Latin was interesting and great touch but would have prefered a more decent storyline and especially battle.

It is amazing, sometimes, how much Hollywood has to 'hollywood-ize' things.  It's why I did not enjoy Troy, as an example.  The written stories don't need 'elaboration' just condensation to fit the format and time available.  Your comment doesn't fill me with hope it that it gets any better.

Last Kingdom suffers from lack of scale (it continually underwhelms with the numbers it has for battles/retinues/etc) and lack of costuming.  At least the plot is better than 4 wading through dung and miraculously not getting sick to steal the eagle from a camp of thousands. 
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Inkpaduta on October 28, 2020, 02:08:18 AM
Watched two episodes so far. Didn't realize that they took the Legion eagle out with small patrols.
Also seems that all the Romans were mounted. Otherwise not all that bad to just sit and watch.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Silent bob on October 28, 2020, 06:49:12 AM
Imagine this, if you will, a film written and produced by wargmers/re-enactors.....say Zulu II (the reboot)

Most of it set in the dark....lots and lots of gun fire, very few casualties on the British side, 'Gunny' Bromead and Chard seem to get on....Hooky is a teetotalling model soldier....Colour Sgt Borne is small, scawny and young....no drunk Witt nor no Ulla  (:-*)

But very good armour and haircuts....

I'm not sure how it would go down at the box office though....

I have trouble with anything historical on TV & Movies but these things are 'info-tainment' and not meant to be part of a university thesis.....at least Barbarians has brought Varus and Herman The German to the public domain, in some kind of historical context.....
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on October 28, 2020, 08:17:53 AM
Imagine this, if you will, a film written and produced by wargmers/re-enactors.....say Zulu II (the reboot)

Most of it set in the dark....lots and lots of gun fire, very few casualties on the British side, 'Gunny' Bromead and Chard seem to get on....Hooky is a teetotalling model soldier....Colour Sgt Borne is small, scawny and young....no drunk Witt nor no Ulla  (:-*)

But very good armour and haircuts....

I'm not sure how it would go down at the box office though....

I have trouble with anything historical on TV & Movies but these things are 'info-tainment' and not meant to be part of a university thesis.....at least Barbarians has brought Varus and Herman The German to the public domain, in some kind of historical context.....

Whilst I agree about artist's being at liberty to use artistic, something fundamental to free speech/expression, license. I also know that is can be folly if it takes the pee. A balance has to be drawn and the production team failed the test IMHO. I'm not angry, bitter or anything of that nature, just mildly amused and having a chuckle to myself about what was at the end of the day, essentially a misleading story about historical events.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: pws on October 28, 2020, 08:43:56 AM
..The Germans talking German and the Romans Latin was interesting...
The ONLY interesting side of this production... all the rest simply boring.
Just a lot of false modern sterotypes with old names, barbarians=freedom and romans=slavery really tired me out, really.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Mindenbrush on October 28, 2020, 02:13:51 PM
I got to the end of episode 6 .......... expecting there to be more ........... but that was it  :?
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Silent bob on October 28, 2020, 04:30:03 PM
Whilst I agree about artist's being at liberty to use artistic, something fundamental to free speech/expression, license. I also know that is can be folly if it takes the pee. A balance has to be drawn and the production team failed the test IMHO. I'm not angry, bitter or anything of that nature, just mildly amused and having a chuckle to myself about what was at the end of the day, essentially a misleading story about historical events.

In the overall telling of 9AD - was the story so misleading?......forget about Wolfspeer & Frauline Whatever Her Face (Thusnelda).....they were just engines to make the series more interesting to WAGs.....a bit like Jack & Rose in Titanic.....

The basic story was there - Hermann (the hostage son of a German chief) goes rogue and leads the Romans into an ambush in the trees......3 Legions lost..... Rome 0 Germany 1.....

OK Thusnelda did not feature in the narration until after 9AD

Maybe Series II will be when Flavus and Arminius get it on.....and Germanicus shows up and kidnaps Thusnelda....

I must admit I found the 'A Team' eagle snatch raid a farce.

I think if I was on the production team and heard the biggest gripe was mullets, I'd consider it a success.....I spose maybe I am getting mellow in my old age....







Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Inkpaduta on October 28, 2020, 05:09:30 PM
Another thought. Why don't they call him Hermann? What is up with Ari?
I come from Minnesota near the town of New Ulm (Most ethnic German city
in the US) and they have a big statue of Hermann the German.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Silent bob on October 28, 2020, 05:28:43 PM
Another thought. Why don't they call him Hermann? What is up with Ari?
I come from Minnesota near the town of New Ulm (Most ethnic German city
in the US) and they have a big statue of Hermann the German.

Not sure about that but 'Hermann the German' was the working title of a supplement I was working on for WAB, before it went to the wall/or down the pan

I have always thought that Hermann doesn't sound too 'macho' regardless of the Old German origin, but I cant figure out 'Ari'....maybe 'Armi' would have been better....
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on October 28, 2020, 05:56:25 PM
Why don't they call him Hermann?

Perhaps because that's a humanist hoax?  ::)
'Germanising' Arminius to "Hermann" was a nationalistic trick. Unfortunately, the series sticks to that by using "Ari"; quite randomly in the original dialogue some initial sounds are dropped or flattened (like "Herusker" instead of "Cherusker"), so a likely explanation is that the writers wanted to allude to the – obsolete – etymology of Arminius from "Hari(mann)" > "Hermann" (=man/leader of an army).
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on October 28, 2020, 10:11:30 PM
Another thought. Why don't they call him Hermann? What is up with Ari?
I come from Minnesota near the town of New Ulm (Most ethnic German city
in the US) and they have a big statue of Hermann the German.

There's one facing France too which I have always found to be in bad taste....

Hermannsdenkmal ("Hermann Monument") in the Teutoburger Wald (Teutoburg Forest), Germany
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Hermannsdenkmal_160707-003.jpg/800px-Hermannsdenkmal_160707-003.jpg)
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on October 28, 2020, 10:26:49 PM
Perhaps because that's a humanist hoax?  ::)
'Germanising' Arminius to "Hermann" was a nationalistic trick. Unfortunately, the series sticks to that by using "Ari"; quite randomly in the original dialogue some initial sounds are dropped or flattened (like "Herusker" instead of "Cherusker"), so a likely explanation is that the writers wanted to allude to the – obsolete – etymology of Arminius from "Hari(mann)" > "Hermann" (=man/leader of an army).

Beat me to it! Though I thought calling him "Ari" was a nice touch, actually. As you say, Hermann is basically a fake name (of course, what name isn't? A topic for another time, I suppose 😁), but the Germans in the show had to call him something, and I'm glad it wasn't Arminius, because that would have meant a rather shallow understanding of the source material. I guess they could've gone with *Harjaz or something, but the fact is we don't know what his team name was, only that it probably shared a similar linguistic element to Caesar's pal Ariovistus from a couple generations earlier..........or maybe they are both just based more on titles that meant something like "that warrior guy", and we'll never know what they were really called :D
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Citizen Sade on October 28, 2020, 10:37:06 PM
FWIW, Ari as a given name is still is use in Scandinavia, at least, though not commonly. Supposedly derived from Norse and meaning eagle.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Captain Blood on October 28, 2020, 10:39:29 PM
Just finished it. I enjoyed it  :)
Ended a bit up in the air, but I didn’t think it was too bad overall.

It’s now a golden rule of all ancient, medieval, and fantasy movies and TV shows that battles have to have fire - preferably involving lobbed flaming fireballs. Not sure if Gladiator or The Return of The King is to blame for this, but it’s now an absolute must-have staple. It was fairly lightly handled in this I thought ;)
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Sterling Moose on October 28, 2020, 10:51:39 PM
Quote
Hermannsdenkmal ("Hermann Monument") in the Teutoburger Wald (Teutoburg Forest), Germany

I used to live in that town.  Loved it!!
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Inkpaduta on October 29, 2020, 02:24:20 AM
It looks very much like the statue in New Ulm.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: cadbren on October 29, 2020, 04:17:24 AM
Okay storyline once you get over the silly night raid to capture the eagle. The final battle was tripe unfortunately, started off well with different parts of the column being attacked but once the flames were lit it was rolling eyes time. At the very least you have to accept the Romans not noticing a huge amount of flammable material poured into trenches, either the turned earth itself or the smell of the flammable material. This was also done in one of the battles in Braveheart and looked just as stupidly pointless.

My biggest beef is the costumes of the Germans, day to day costumes were okay but their fighting costumes were just fantasy rubbish, inspired more by African tribal warriors with long face masks and random war paint. There is one group mentioned as using warpaint, it was black or at least very dark and the tribe was the Harii, they also fought at night. Having these guys involved in the ambush during the night fighting would have been amazing. Not sure where the chin markings for the women come from, that looks polynesian/Ainu.

Thumbs up in the first Germanic council for pointing out that not every group present was even German, there were likely Celts still around and various others that history has not recorded. Great to see the suebian knot. The guy wanting Thusnelda as his wife I think was Teurisci - a Dacian tribe that likely was originally part of the Celtic Taurisci.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Silent bob on October 29, 2020, 06:07:44 AM
Just finished it. I enjoyed it  :)
Ended a bit up in the air, but I didn’t think it was too bad overall.

It’s now a golden rule of all ancient, medieval, and fantasy movies and TV shows that battles have to have fire - preferably involving lobbed flaming fireballs. Not sure if Gladiator or The Return of The King is to blame for this, but it’s now an absolute must-have staple. It was fairly lightly handled in this I thought ;)

Maybe Spartacus? Kirk and his rollers?......I once watched French series about William the Conqueror and they had (IIRC) burning wagons at Hastings.......
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Rick F on October 29, 2020, 08:12:56 AM
I really enjoyed it, I just had to keep reminding myself that these things are made for a very general audience, as one of the historical advisors said on a different programme "the director will listen to a certain extent, but storyline and visual appeal will beat accuracy every time" As for what we actually know about the period and battle, it's not too long since if you'd said they were wearing segmented armour in AD9 you'd have been ridiculed. Imagine what we'll know in 50 years, AriHerminious was actually a Polynesian prince who'd crossed the oceans on a balsa raft lol
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Captain Blood on October 29, 2020, 08:59:12 AM
Maybe Spartacus? Kirk and his rollers?......I once watched French series about William the Conqueror and they had (IIRC) burning wagons at Hastings.......

Well yes, fire has featured as a surprise device in movie battle scenes since time immemorial.
But the modern-day de rigeur cliche of huge war machines improbably hurling spectacularly exploding fireballs, is something that has taken hold in the last 20 years or so. Like I say, it seems that no pre-gunpowder movie or TV battle scene is now complete without them. So boring. So derivative...
::)
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on October 29, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
As for what we actually know about the period and battle, it's not too long since if you'd said they were wearing segmented armour in AD9 you'd have been ridiculed.

I think it was Adrian Goldsworthy who wrote that we only know about 10% what there is to know the Early Imperial Roman army :) Of course, that was a few years ago now so we might know a little more  ;) :)
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: ErikB on October 29, 2020, 02:20:15 PM
Just wondering, did any of that German sound like Hochdeutsch?

I had a hard time understanding some of it.  I'm out of practice and used to Bayrische, anyway, but this didn't sound like Hochdeutsch to me.

Still having a great time with the show and enjoying practicing my German.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Mad Doc Morris on October 29, 2020, 02:48:29 PM
Just wondering, did any of that German sound like Hochdeutsch?

It does. If of the Til Schweiger variety, i. e. rather mumbly and awkwardly casual. Hipster style German cinema.
Arminius adds a nice Austrian accent, too. ;)
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Fremitus Borealis on October 29, 2020, 03:47:18 PM
Yeah I was gonna say, I didn't have trouble understanding it really, bit it was so mumbly I needed to have subtitles on  :D
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on October 29, 2020, 05:27:31 PM
I think it was Adrian Goldsworthy who wrote that we only know about 10% what there is to know the Early Imperial Roman army :) Of course, that was a few years ago now so we might know a little more  ;) :)

Probably, 12% accounting for inflation.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Captain Harlock on October 29, 2020, 06:14:25 PM
I finished all six epsodes. Actually i enjoyed it very much despite some rather serious problems.
 Ill start with the bad.
Very weak writing and plot lines. The evil Romans that just wont leave alone the noble savages. Rome is presented as bringing nothing to the table, just sucking up the resources of dirt poor people. No one explains to us how Rome managed to employ so many germanic mercenaries. We never see the cultural attractions of Rome, only cruelty. Arminius is presented as an opportunistic egoist, who only acted against Rome when he realized that he is not getting what he wants, while already he had more than most people around him.
Segestes is demoted to a worm tongue from Lidl, instead of a lord and ally to Rome with a serious biff against Arminius and an army of his own.
The final assault was xompetely anticlimactic and plain stupid. They want to tell us that thousands of veteran legionaires were standing over ditches filled with a flameable substance and nobody smelt or felt anything strange around him. Also when this magic substance was lit a huge wall of ever lasting flame divided whole roman units which could have  easily form up to face the germanic tribes that were also seperated by the flamewall. Generally it was insinuated that the tribes had less men than the romans, who apparently had forgot how to fight and that they wore armour because even a village idiot could outfight veterans with experience all over the empire. The whole eagle snatch sub plot was unrealistic plus the fact that the romans didnt have 200 informers at their disposal the very next day of the crazy party thrown for the group of heroes.
Generally if you want a better take on the same setting i would suggest the comic series The Eagles of Rome.

Now the good.
It was a very decent production with probably the best roman costumes i ve seen to date. Nice photography, very decent fight choreography in the duel scene. I loved both the use of Latin-German and the breaking of the tradition of having british actors posing as mediterranean Romans. That choice alone created the 80% of the atmosphere and demonstrated in a glance the magnitude of the cultural gap between the native Germans and the Roman intruders. The costumes and props played a big silent role there also. We can see why the roman spoils and arms would be extremely valuable to the germanic chieftains. i really appreciated that the natives were dressed in colourful attires to the best of their ability, and were not drenched in mud from head to toe as it usually happens.
To the point we are I was very happy that Thusnelda didnt lead a division of super warrior shield maidens while  Arminius was doing the dishes back in camp.
So overall, it could be a better series but it wasnt bad at all and i would recommend it to anyone who enjoys period dramas.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Zopenco on November 01, 2020, 11:03:54 AM
Just finished it. I enjoyed it  :)
Ended a bit up in the air, but I didn’t think it was too bad overall.

It’s now a golden rule of all ancient, medieval, and fantasy movies and TV shows that battles have to have fire - preferably involving lobbed flaming fireballs. Not sure if Gladiator or The Return of The King is to blame for this, but it’s now an absolute must-have staple. It was fairly lightly handled in this I thought ;)

Kubrick's Spartacus...

Several Spanish Army extras got severe burns filming that one
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Maniac on November 03, 2020, 04:24:48 AM
Watched the second episode to see if it got any better, and no.  Disappointed with the noble savage vs evil colonizer aspect of the show, among other extremely overt politically correct ideas.

The costuming still look good, but the plot is still terrible.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Antonio J Carrasco on November 03, 2020, 07:16:54 AM
Not impressed. The trope of the noble savage vs the decadent civilized has been beaten to death, for me.

The production is good; I also like the effort made with using different languages for the Cheruscii and the Romans, and the outfits used if not perfect at least are good enough to suspend disbelief. The plot, on the other hand, is predictable and still worse the writers telegraph what they are going to do way before it happens. Still worse: there are not nuances, not conflict whatsoever; the characters go through the motions, but there are not sense of impeding doom. You can't root for any Roman character, which would make the stakes higher. Someone has mentioned the comic book Eagles of Rome; that is a good story: you see how the characters are driven towards a crisis, but still you invest emotionally in them and when they meet their fates you really feel for them. That does not happen with Barbarians. You don't give a damm what happens with the Romans or even the Cheruscci. The romantic subplot feels contrived, like something that a teenager could have written.

In a 10 point scale, it would be a 5/10 being generous.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on November 03, 2020, 08:56:56 AM
Not impressed. The trope of the noble savage vs the decadent civilized has been beaten to death, for me.

The production is good; I also like the effort made with using different languages for the Cheruscii and the Romans, and the outfits used if not perfect at least are good enough to suspend disbelief. The plot, on the other hand, is predictable and still worse the writers telegraph what they are going to do way before it happens. Still worse: there are not nuances, not conflict whatsoever; the characters go through the motions, but there are not sense of impeding doom. You can't root for any Roman character, which would make the stakes higher. Someone has mentioned the comic book Eagles of Rome; that is a good story: you see how the characters are driven towards a crisis, but still you invest emotionally in them and when they meet their fates you really feel for them. That does not happen with Barbarians. You don't give a damm what happens with the Romans or even the Cheruscci. The romantic subplot feels contrived, like something that a teenager could have written.

In a 10 point scale, it would be a 5/10 being generous.

I think that's what I gave it earlier and I agree, apart from all the 'normal' wargamers gripes, it was dry and lacked any real dynamism and drive in the characters.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: FierceKitty on November 04, 2020, 05:09:19 AM
Kubrick's Spartacus...

Several Spanish Army extras got severe burns filming that one

Worst waste of a brilliant director known to history.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Atheling on November 04, 2020, 10:55:23 AM
Worst waste of a brilliant director known to history.

Meh, I think he made up for it later by a very high margin  :)
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Captain Harlock on November 04, 2020, 12:01:17 PM
Not impressed. The trope of the noble savage vs the decadent civilized has been beaten to death, for me.

The production is good; I also like the effort made with using different languages for the Cheruscii and the Romans, and the outfits used if not perfect at least are good enough to suspend disbelief. The plot, on the other hand, is predictable and still worse the writers telegraph what they are going to do way before it happens. Still worse: there are not nuances, not conflict whatsoever; the characters go through the motions, but there are not sense of impeding doom. You can't root for any Roman character, which would make the stakes higher. Someone has mentioned the comic book Eagles of Rome; that is a good story: you see how the characters are driven towards a crisis, but still you invest emotionally in them and when they meet their fates you really feel for them. That does not happen with Barbarians. You don't give a damm what happens with the Romans or even the Cheruscci. The romantic subplot feels contrived, like something that a teenager could have written.

In a 10 point scale, it would be a 5/10 being generous.

You are very right. You cant root for any Roman character. It was a wasted chance for some real drama. Getting to know some legionaries unsuspected of their impending doom. We dont even get to properly know Varus the main antagonist. What drives him? What is he aiming for? Does he have a family? Why did he invested on Arminius? Thats why I said that The Eagles of Rome comic do the same story way way better. Ok granted its a totally different medium, but yet again they didnt even made an effort. Btw nobody misses poor Flavus in that village except the brief mention by his father.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: bluewillow on November 05, 2020, 09:41:54 PM
I was disappointed, I see the early production shots and was excited by the early shots of the legionaries kit.

A real
Missed opportunity I thought of telling the real story.i watched it in German and English. The German was much better. One day someone hopefully will produce a non dumbed down version of events.

Cheers
Natt
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Unlucky General on November 07, 2020, 02:18:06 AM
Well again, it's the best offering on the subject matter I can think of drama wise and I enjoyed it very much in spite of the flaws - becasue as I see it the flaws in such productions are getting fewer than all those horrid sword and sandal so-called epics of the past.

I have to say I do have a problem - and it's my problem - I notice things. I can't help it and I wish I wasn't like it becasue I tend to dispel my own willing suspension of disbelief. There was this moment when Fulkwin is in the forest at night on his lonesome an his built himself a considerable fire. Except it wasn't really a fire, was it? It was an arrangement of sticks over some sort of flaming gas burner which had no coal beds and produced no smoke - I mean none of the wood in it was actually alight!

I also can't help looking at what extras are up to and gosh and golly did these extras require some proper direction or what. There was this one scene where I started giggling becasue this bloke was tickling some random pile of dung/straw/grass (some midden) with a hay fork with no genuine meaning or intent. I mean, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Funny.

Technically, my only gripe is the insistence in all of these programmes and movies of lead actors refusing to grow a proper bloody beard. How it it that they keep that week's growth look so permanently? Have you noticed, the more prominent the male lead role is the less likely it is that they sport the proper beard?

Anyway, still better than anything else offered in the last 20 years on Roman stuff for TV ... pretty sure.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: sgzleada71 on November 12, 2020, 11:45:26 AM
Quite a good series,  Certainly better than  Britannia. 
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Grumpy Gnome on November 21, 2020, 03:36:07 PM
I have only seen the trailer for Britannia... it did not leave me with high expectations.

And I went in with low expectations for the first episode of Barbaren but was still disappointed. My wife was less annoyed by it than me. Ham fisted plot points and incredibly incompetent Roman legionnaires. The level of incompetence made it difficult for me to suspend disbelief. Gorgeous costuming on the senior officers but over and over again I was wishing someone would teach the low ranking extras how to wear a helmet properly. Too often they looked like children playing dress up as they tried to peer from out under the brim of their I’ll fitting, crooked helmets.

Whilst we have only seen the first episode I would agree with most of the criticism already voiced in this thread.
Title: Re: Netflix series Barbarians.
Post by: Muzfish4 on February 25, 2021, 10:38:36 AM
I have been holding off reading this thread until I watched the entire series. Finished the final episode last night.

I concur with much of the criticism already here.

The plot is very poor and the characters quite wooden and largely under (or un) developed.

Sets and costumes are very good. Use of language was also excellent (inspired by the Latin and Aramaic in Passion of the Mel?)

I had high(ish) hopes for the final battle scenes but was pretty disappointed, not just by the silly use of fire but also how the Romans turned into Imperial Stormtroopers unable to inflict much damage and with seemingly totally ineffective armour - their first move when preparing for battle was to throw their pila away making one wonder why do they lug them around?

The final battle scene was, for mine, too cut and dried. I does, I feel represent a missed opportunity for a huge three day ordeal of battle by day and by night as increasingly desperate surviving Romans attempt to flee, cut their way out or even surrender. Having it all done and dusted in an afternoon in time to get the BBQ going and share out the fresh teste horderves by the campfire seemed to detract from the epic slog it must have been.

The themes for season two are so clearly telegraphed it really makes me wonder if it will be worth watching. That said, I probably will give it a go though more in hope than in expectation.