Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: DCRBrown on October 11, 2020, 10:31:53 AM
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O Group WW2 rules are currently on the Start Line, forming up and gradually getting ready for launch!
(https://i.postimg.cc/J081JgfB/O_Group_Cover.png) (https://postimg.cc/zbdZYdXJ)
The O Group design places significant wargame command decisions upon the players during the command and combat phases, but keeps firing and combat fast and intuitive, (hopefully! ;))
As a taster and guide a series of three YouTube videos, showing a play through of a Normandy game with the indomitable Richard Clarke and I will be posted on the Too Fat Lardies channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/toofatlardies
DB
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Loverly Dave, BTW are the pictures based on a (much) younger version of you, Nick and Rich? lol
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TT,
The cover is Chris Collingwood's artistry, so very pleased with it.
I'm pretty certain they are not younger versions of Rich, Nick and I...we'd be a much more motley bunch! :)
DB
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Dave's the one in the leather fetish-wear...
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Well... That's promising news :D
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Well... That's promising news :D
Dave's leather fetish? :o
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Is this a game for 15mm or will it work for 1/72/20mm scale?
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Mac,
Designed to cover both scales.
As part of the playtesting I delved into 20mm, buying an AB British and then a German battalion, then a few PSC tanks as supports! And then a few more.... ;)
DB
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Slippery slope lol lol lol
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Dave, can you explain how these differ in concept from your Battlegroup Panzergrenadier rules. They both seem to be aimed at battalion level , albeit I may be mistaken in that assumption?
Thanks
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SJWi,
O Group takes a different approach to command and control.
Command is split/covers both Battalion and Company and the player will need to make various command decisions regarding how he exercises command at these levels.
Where a player places his Orders represents the command and control focus of the company at that time. Essentially the commander chooses his Schwerpunkt and attempts to impose his will on the battle. As you can see from the videos, the Germans struggled to gain the initiative throughout the game and were largely responding to British moves and attacks. An important command aspect is to break out of that loop and dictate events thus forcing your opponent to react to you, rather than the other way around.
Hopefully the videos show how this works in practise.
DB
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Part 2 of our Normandy O Group game is now up over on Lard TV.
https://www.youtube.com/user/toofatlardies
DB
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Dave,
Using 20mm sounds interesting. I have a good number of AB Brits, Germans and Americans. What would you estimate the number of figures would be for a battalion. Thanks.
Gene
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G,
The number of figures is roughly 90-100, if you have three figures on a rifle section base as in the pic below, but obviously figure count could be less.
As you can see I've used 9 figures per platoon, so 27 figures plus the commander, 30 figs per company. Three companies plus supports, comes in at about 100 figs.
However if you were going for 2 figures per base you could come in at about 60 figures.
(https://i.postimg.cc/13x2yvmy/Demo_Company.png) (https://postimg.cc/Yh3b3fLP)
DB
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Thanks Dave. Your three man sections look good to me. I already use 3 man bases for IABSM and CoC i.e. 3 bases per section, 9 per platoon plus leaders etc. Now with “O Group” I get to use them all at once! Gene
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I’m certainly interested in these rules, is there a summary of them anywhere? While I appreciate you have produced the videos, and I started watching them, they are very verbose. I’ve watched 20mins of the first one and we are still on the pre-game phase.
The idea of the patrol markers is very interesting - could these be represented by bases with a couple of figures on?
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The idea of the patrol markers is very interesting - could these be represented by bases with a couple of figures on?
Are these the same as the CoC Patrol Phase? If so, I've adapted them for all manner of wargames. It's one of my favourite wargames mechanics :D
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No, different to CoC. These are used through the game, to represent your recon units. Not in a pre-game phase like in CoC. Which is why I was wondering if putting figures in them would be good.
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Fred,
I initially put a figure on my first go at Combat Patrols.
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXQYNdzt/Combat-patrols.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0MmyyBXj)
The only downside to this was that once I'd flocked them it was harder to see which side they belonged to! ;)
DB
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Fred,
I initially put a figure on my first go at Combat Patrols.
The only downside to this was that once I'd flocked them it was harder to see which side they belonged to! ;)
DB
That's good! Lots of scope for mistaken identities as often happened with patrols!
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Thanks for the photos of the early combat patrol makers, I’m with vodkafan and think figures will improve the look. I’m likely to play in 10mm so telling sides apart is part of the basing of figures anyway.
A different question, you have 3 stands representing a platoon, in the game on the video Rich seemed to keep his in a very neat line, rather Napoleonic almost. It was harder to see what you did with yours as they were in buildings. Either way I was struggling to see if having 3 stands did anything game wise, nor if the deployment of the stands had any significance?
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So is it infantry focused, or can I use an Armour company as my main force?
I'm always looking for more rulesets to use for my post-war conflicts lol
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Fred,
A platoon does have an fire arc, so it is important to keep the platoon covering a particular front. Other than that no, as we are commanding at Company + level.
Also having sections permits the lose of those sections as a platoon suffers battle attrition/casualties.
DB
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Splod,
If playing a more armour centric game, you can swap the basic infantry battalion out for a tank battalion or regiment instead or add a tank battalion to your battlegroup.
DB
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And the final Part 3 of our Normandy game is now up on Lard TV.
https://www.youtube.com/user/toofatlardies
DB
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Thanks for putting up the last part - really shows a lot more of the rules as the game reaches its end stages. The HQ orders and the saving vs spending gives some interesting decisions to make.
When are the rules aiming to be available?
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F,
I received the draft O Group today, so we've moved onto the final editing stages. 8)
Not too long.
DB
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Good to hear!
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Teaser...
(https://i.postimg.cc/Y2Lq4QrL/Teaser-2.png) (https://postimg.cc/hhgq6z7K)
DB
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Oh My. :D
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Tease successful!
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For those into FaceBook there's now a dedicated O Group FB group, up and running.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/2829696957316103
DB
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Now available for pre-orders.
https://toofatlardies.co.uk/product-category/reisswitz-press/
DB
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Just pre-ordered.
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Got my pre-order in. Something to look forward to reading.
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Got my pre-order in. Something to look forward to reading.
Me too
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Not long now. I'm really looking forward to these rules. I've loved watching the videos and had a good laugh at the last one when Dave's panzer attack to stonked by the big Soviet guns.
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And today is finally publication day! 8)
DB
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fair to say this publication will be greeted with a tide of emulsion at my place ! if you haven't already ordered, get cracking! :D
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And today is finally publication day! 8)
DB
This morning I found my PDF copy in my e mailbox. I cannot wait to have a first go ;D
Thanks
Marco
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I got my pdf yesterday evening and started into it after dinner. I now have to find a sabot basing solution for my 20mm. I'm not keen on the idea of a full rebasing (considering it would involve hundreds of figures in a dozen different 1:1 companies).
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See LARD TV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o5-tz9H5YE&ab_channel=toofatlardies
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Hard copy just arrived. Cracking service as ever and a fine looking volume.
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Had a read through last night
Some really interesting ideas and they seem to be making you try and think like a battalion commander rather than a gamer.
There are about 80 pages of rules, which is a lot to take in.
Lots of procedures to learn, (firing isn't covered until page 53)
I don't think it will be a game that will ever become second nature (unless you play it alot ) as there are too many little bits and pieces to remember
Really want to have a game though.
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I’ve been flicking through the PDF, and there is a lot to take in. I think from the videos I have a starting point, but there is a lot more detail in the rules. Waiting for the hard copy so I can read it more easily and digest - which by the sound of it should be with me in the next day or so.
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I am afraid that Modern warfare rules are often full of details and that is a must if you want to cover all the feature of this period.
I am a fan of TFL and the like rules but I have to admit that they require a certain fidelity in terms of time devoted to play.
They are not the kind of rules you can play once in a while in a spot evening at your club.
We tried some time ago IABSM and after played for one month or so we found them very fun but difficult to master.
Marco
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No sign of my hard copy of the rules yet :(
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Got them today took them to work for a good read.
I am finding loads of things I am going to tweak already.
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Any issues using singly based figures for these rules? would like to expand (already started) my CoC forces, I suppose I could make 3 man sabot bases.
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Sabot bases should work well - in the rules Rich uses 12mm figures on 25mm round bases, on a 3 hole sabot base - you could use something similar for larger figures. The key bit would be if you visually accept a figure is a section?
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Yeah, wouldn’t use 1 fig as a section, but would there be issues having 3 loose figs as a section, 9 loose as a platoon? But Ide probably do the sabot thing anyway.
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I think just the practical problem of knowing these 3 models are a section, which is part of a platoon. Would be fine while units are fairly separate, could get annoying in terrain. Sabot bases sound a good idea.
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I've just brought a copy of 'O' Group rules, I really like the look of them, I've been looking for a WW2 game at this level rather than the popular 'super skirmish' for quiet a while. Only problem is, my rule book is missing all the page numbers! Am I unlucky, or are all sets the same? Hoping that it's the former so I can swap them for a set with page numbers. Not sure if they've been missed out or if they were to near the bottom of the page and have been trimmed off in production process?
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Chris, all the initial printed rules are like this - the page numbers are there in the binding crease (barely visible if you spread the book open).
Apparently, the adding of the advert to the inside cover (post-proofing) caused all the page numbers to be on the "inside" of the pages, rather than on the outside - this the explanation posted on the TFL forum.
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Ah, I see. I'd best get by trusty ballpoint out and write page numbers on some where a bit more visible.
Look's like a cracking system, and all my 20mm and 15mm figures are based this way so just need to read and absorb the rules.
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I might put my platoon commanders in the mix. I like them on the table. Anyone have a tweak to make such fit? It could just work for “show” anyhow.
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SC,
You could simply try having an extra section with each platoon, as most platoons had a small HQ? Looks good but no combat value.
Or if you are basing from scratch have a slightly bigger base for one section to include the command figure or as I saw one player do, add a rather neat extension to the back of one platoon base to which he added the Platoon Commander! 8)
DB
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I base for Crossfire, so my PC’s are on ‘half’ bases. But I could easily keep them next to a section.