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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: bluewillow on October 31, 2020, 02:47:10 PM

Title: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Aragon Arbalète /09/2021
Post by: bluewillow on October 31, 2020, 02:47:10 PM
My next medieval project will be the Breton Guerre Folle, or the mad war, it will be part of our "walk the Battlefield in the morning, Wargame in the afternoon" wargame holidays here in France.

the battlefield tour is here
https://www.lhoteldeherce.fr/product-page/breton-war-of-independance (https://www.lhoteldeherce.fr/product-page/breton-war-of-independance)


The "Mad War" was the struggle of major feudal lords against centralised royal power. As part of these power struggles, in 1484-1485, Louis II of Orléans tried to seize the crown supported by Francis II of Brittany and a certain number of border lords of Anjou-Maine and Normandy, attempting to depose the regent, Anne de Beaujeu. On 2 November 1485, the Peace of Bourges suspended the hostilities for eight months.
The second phase commenced June 1486 to November 1488, is sometimes called the War of Bretagne (Brittany), this is the period I will concentrate on as all of the major clashes and sieges occur within 1 hour of L'Hotel de Hercé-French Wargame Holidays HQ.

The first army I will build will be the Bretons, along with the Gascon, Béarnaise, Aragonese, English, Castilian and German Mercenaries, followed closely by the French, Swiss mercenaries along with Germans and Italians. The armies will focus on the field battle of Saint-Aubin-du-Cormier in 1488. I predominatly will be using the Perry range of WOTR plus the mercenaries pack along with some other bits and pieces from other manufacturers

wish me luck!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/Histoire_universelle_-_Bib_SteGenevi%C3%A8ve_Ms523_%28bataille_de_Saint-Aubin-du-Cormier%29.jpg)

cheers
Matt

Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Atheling on October 31, 2020, 04:00:50 PM
One day, when all the madness has calmed down mate  :)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Charlie_ on October 31, 2020, 09:44:45 PM
Excellent, I look forward to seeing what you make of it!

This overlaps my own project a bit, and features some of the same characters, some of which I've made some flags for. If you need a flag for John de Chalon-Arlay, Prince of Orange, let me know ; )
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on October 31, 2020, 09:57:39 PM
One day, when all the madness has calmed down mate  :)

 I Really am looking forward to it mate, visits to Verneuil, Baugé, La Brossinière, and Saint-Auburn-du-Cormier, plus all of the grand chateaux of the west!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on October 31, 2020, 09:58:26 PM
Excellent, I look forward to seeing what you make of it!

This overlaps my own project a bit, and features some of the same characters, some of which I've made some flags for. If you need a flag for John de Chalon-Arlay, Prince of Orange, let me know ; )

That would be fabulous, please send me a email or pm

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Charlie_ on November 01, 2020, 12:13:32 AM
That would be fabulous, please send me a email or pm

Here it is!

(https://i.imgur.com/SUb4O3e.png)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Atheling on November 01, 2020, 12:39:02 AM
I Really am looking forward to it mate, visits to Verneuil, Baugé, La Brossinière, and Saint-Auburn-du-Cormier, plus all of the grand chateaux of the west!

Cheers
Matt

A dream come true.....  8)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 01, 2020, 02:01:47 PM
Thank you Charlie

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 01, 2020, 02:04:13 PM
First two units completed, both Breton Skirmisher archers from the Perry range, based for Impetus

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-63x0cmwiyC0/X53hVO5dxSI/AAAAAAAAaAQ/FyCE-ZptotYNPscmXaxzrPQgLYDM6BnVgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h318/B4683676-C631-4B2A-B02E-76ADDC2C5817.jpeg)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4fP3N7u5yIU/X53hUuwYmYI/AAAAAAAAaAM/B7uTA8drl0EITocM0dDsvSYIocnFE-mUgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h304/5FC252BF-858E-4662-8549-802553E4358E.jpeg)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Atheling on November 01, 2020, 02:16:46 PM
Smashing work Matt  :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 01, 2020, 04:44:50 PM
 :P

cheers Mate, figures have been painted for some time but awaited basing!

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: commissarmoody on November 03, 2020, 10:43:25 AM
Wow, sounds like a great project. Looking forward to seeing how this works out.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Patrice on November 03, 2020, 12:19:13 PM
Superb project!  :)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 05, 2020, 04:49:55 PM
Thanks guys, more coming
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 12, 2020, 08:11:09 PM
Next unit completed English Longbow this time

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PAKT6izNSwo/X613BpRHu4I/AAAAAAAAaQA/kp-C_8nZBW4CdSE9ejyq2YHcfM6hyD2qwCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h324/62FE656D-83BC-402D-8ED7-A1EF1DEB0794.jpeg)

full article about them on my blog
https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/search/label/Saint-Aubin-du-Cormier (https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/search/label/Saint-Aubin-du-Cormier)

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Patrice on November 12, 2020, 10:49:41 PM
Next unit completed English Longbow

Those from Isle of Wight I suppose. :)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 13, 2020, 07:03:09 AM
Those from Isle of Wight I suppose. :)

Yes of course! I have written a little story about them on my blog


Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: HappyChappy439 on November 13, 2020, 10:20:38 AM
Thanks for sharing! And thanks for the writeup on the blog as well, I had no idea about the Isle of Wight involvement in the war!
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 14, 2020, 11:40:41 AM
Yes, of the the 440 odd men who left with Edward Woodville only one returned, his write up will come in about a week.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Patrice on November 14, 2020, 07:12:14 PM
A picture of me (from a local newspaper) on St-Aubin-du-Cormier battlefield, in re-enactor clothes with "salade" helmet and sword and the Breton black cross sewn on my tabard, explaining this battle to visitors... I think it was ± 20 years ago. ;)

(http://www.huchehault.com/xv/sk/salbin2.gif)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 14, 2020, 11:27:16 PM
A picture of me (from a local newspaper) on St-Aubin-du-Cormier battlefield, in re-enactor clothes with "salade" helmet and sword and the Breton black cross sewn on my tabard, explaining this battle to visitors... I think it was ± 20 years ago. ;)

(http://www.huchehault.com/xv/sk/salbin2.gif)

Nice Patrice, love it!

Do you live nearby? I was hoping to visit the battlefield again for more photos before the 2nd lockdown for my blog article about the battle.

I will be publishing it in about week on my blog for the 100th blog post for the year.

I know we chatted on TMP before about the battle, I found two very interesting documents this week that solved a few question I had about the French artillery and some of the Breton nobles taken hostage or killed at the battle.

If you gave any useful pictures send me a email please.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: Patrice on November 15, 2020, 11:46:31 AM
Do you live nearby?

I found two very interesting documents this week that solved a few question I had about the French artillery and some of the Breton nobles taken hostage or killed at the battle.

I was living in St-Malo at the time (I mean 20 years ago, not in 1488) :D but now I'm in western Brittany.

I'll be interested to read your next artices on this subject! :)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488
Post by: bluewillow on November 25, 2020, 04:58:53 PM
another unit of Breton archers completed

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-U8VwPNRYPfc/X7bcvK5WGbI/AAAAAAAAabQ/94RyOm8W9Co55-twV2yrpGLCTsqdGAqDQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2581/21F48EED-B916-48CB-A78F-0634B608E607.jpeg)

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 25th November
Post by: commissarmoody on November 26, 2020, 08:51:35 AM
Looking good!  :D
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 25th November
Post by: bluewillow on November 27, 2020, 05:11:19 AM
Thanks mate more coming today
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 25th November
Post by: bluewillow on December 06, 2020, 09:36:00 PM
The first of my Swiss mercenary units for the Guerre Folle (Mad War), 4000 Swiss fought at the battle of Saint Aubin du Cormier, in 12 companies. I am not certain what the mix in each company was but crossbow and arquebusier were both present along with pike and halberdiers.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n1pbwyZY7os/X81MzooH_sI/AAAAAAAAajI/hinUGr11X2cEx3_4rt3NJNDCKWzTJvhWgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h306/FC4AF7C5-EA5C-44EE-8B3F-27EAB8F409B3.jpeg)

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 07, 2020, 09:40:58 AM
lovely work Matt  :-*

....and a very interesting project  8)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 07, 2020, 09:37:52 PM
Another Breton unit off the table for my Breton army for the Mad War. The Breton Ordnance companies were required to have one Archer (crossbow, longbowman, or spearman) per every 10 hearths. In 1488 less than 20 per cent mustered, mostly because the French Army invaded during the harvest season. Some of the northern Arrie ban did muster from the city of Rennes and the border marches( Vitré, Dol and St Malo was occupied by French) and the Comte de Laval sided with the French, and many of the Marcher lords of Maine and Brittany owed fealty to both sides and did not even take part on either side.


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TjEnYlPhL3Y/X86gImnpQVI/AAAAAAAAajc/ygr-FHMBH20Nftt92KD7-aLUjUolmJy-ACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h356/60C8E8F7-D0DA-468B-97F3-8CA8AB3F1454.jpeg)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 07, 2020, 09:42:07 PM
Blinkin' eck! That was fast!  :o

Lovely work as per Matt  :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 08, 2020, 09:10:24 AM
Blinkin' eck! That was fast!  :o

Lovely work as per Matt  :-*

I have another six units close behind, mostly MAA, with one or two in heraldry per unit.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 08, 2020, 09:18:36 AM
I have another six units close behind, mostly MAA, with one or two in heraldry per unit.

Cheers
Matt

Keep them coming....  :)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 09, 2020, 07:48:37 PM
German Landsknechtes in Brittany
Maximillian I of Austria raised the most famous of mercenaries in the Renaissance, the Landsknectes. These mercenary Saxon princely bands started to become more common after 1488. As part of his support for his future wife 11 year old Anne of Brittany, he sent a small contingent as a body gaurd of 32 Halberdiers in 1487 commanded by Henri de Villespern. When the French launched their invasion of the duchy a promise came from Maximillain I that he would send 3500 mercenaries to support the Duchy of Brittany.

Only 840 men arrived in Brittany in time for the battle of Saint Aubin du Cormier, the contingent contained three troop types, Pikemen, Halberdiers and arquebusiers, they were placed under the command of Louis II duc de Orleans (plus he added his retinue of 230 MAA, Louis became the future king of France Louis XII 10 years later) 700 pikemen and Halberdiers commanded by Captain Bhler of Jullac (thought to be the bastard son of Duke Heinrich VIII of Braunschweig-Wolfenbuttel), and 90 arquebusiers. I will break this into three contingents, one pike, one Halberdiers and a skirmish base or Arquebusiers.

The figures are from the Perry Miniatures mercenaries box, hand painted flag

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-LvoeNhcqk2g/X9ElFdkCQoI/AAAAAAAAamo/ohmwuxlMaSwLdAKUDr0qYQfK-xQxdTsdQCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/9C45B3A3-8CC4-457A-862F-69004FD83FC7.jpeg)
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Iqf7Ojdlsac/X9ElEhXA5AI/AAAAAAAAamk/52KgGTt4YiwaEAgCDJv37r5oTVFH9QWzACLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/97ADD4C5-2EEA-4B85-8926-1D5E31D5CFF1.jpeg)

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 09, 2020, 08:05:46 PM
Excellent Matt.   :-*

.....and educational  8)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 10, 2020, 08:00:21 AM
Excellent Matt.   :-*

.....and educational  8)

Rabbit hole research!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 10, 2020, 09:50:19 AM
Rabbit hole research!

I can appreciate that! Happens to me every day. Or is that I let it happen?  lol
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 12, 2020, 02:41:24 PM
The Rebel prince, Louis Duc d’Orleans, and later King of France

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KJn6NUHQg4c/X9O4io4z-qI/AAAAAAAAapU/HnvSsFL6ci8z9baZhOL_YtzN-vG087OVACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h372/8485C1C2-7F21-470F-8C78-8D5F32CDD1E6.jpeg)

more photos and a bit of the history behind the character

https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2020/12/louis-ii-duc-de-orleans-louis-xii-king.html (https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2020/12/louis-ii-duc-de-orleans-louis-xii-king.html)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-TwBjfIqSblQ/X9O4gt0HrqI/AAAAAAAAapQ/2zSox2GFruYVD284vHV9v89IogVWIwH_gCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h448/E41D9691-9B42-42F7-B36A-E85B0436F23B.jpeg)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 12, 2020, 03:15:35 PM
Excellent stuff. A noble ancient family  8)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 14, 2020, 11:28:54 PM
Jean de Chalon-d'Arlay

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rFZoAtwf5Rw/X9fybWM9J6I/AAAAAAAAasA/a2FXwZzyS1EKSp9H1HB033TDX6WY3S_oQCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h640/F755E50E-6062-415E-9EC6-69443F2BBDCF.jpeg)

more photos and some history on my blog

https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2020/12/jean-iv-de-chalon-arlay-prince-of.html (https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2020/12/jean-iv-de-chalon-arlay-prince-of.html)

cheers
matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Charlie_ on December 14, 2020, 11:48:10 PM
The Prince of Orange!
Who's the chap next to him?

I see you didn't use the flag I provided you with  ;)  It looks good though, where did you get it from? And what's it printed on?
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: commissarmoody on December 15, 2020, 01:00:23 AM
Another great looking stand.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: HappyChappy439 on December 15, 2020, 01:37:30 AM
Nice to see the ol' Prince of Orange! Great work on his heraldry too!

And looking at the blog post, I didn't realise he was a claimant to the duchy himself too!
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 15, 2020, 08:21:52 AM
The Prince of Orange!
Who's the chap next to him?

I see you didn't use the flag I provided you with  ;)  It looks good though, where did you get it from? And what's it printed on?

I will look it up, but he was killed at Saint Aubin du Cormier.

Hand painted flag on linen

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 15, 2020, 08:23:53 AM
Another great looking stand.

Thanks, I am enjoying this project the most as lots of heavy metal!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 15, 2020, 08:29:11 AM
Nice to see the ol' Prince of Orange! Great work on his heraldry too!

And looking at the blog post, I didn't realise he was a claimant to the duchy himself too!

Yes, he was related like most princes to both sides, first cousin to the Bourbons, which he married into.

 I think his claim was the strongest after Anne, but Francois II preferred Anne to marry Maximilian of Austria even though this would of upset the balance of power in France, hence the invasion then the Italian wars to top it off.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 15, 2020, 08:41:16 AM
Fab work again Matt  :-*

What those folks would not do to pursue "their rights". I've often struggled to how to find a modern equivalent to equate to the Late Middle Ages Noble Families pursuit of their rights. It's a really difficult one characterise and to put into modern terms.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 15, 2020, 03:46:21 PM
Fab work again Matt  :-*

What those folks would not do to pursue "their rights". I've often struggled to how to find a modern equivalent to equate to the Late Middle Ages Noble Families pursuit of their rights. It's a really difficult one characterise and to put into modern terms.

It was done with arms then, not words and lawyers like today .......

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 15, 2020, 03:51:45 PM
It was done with arms then, not words and lawyers like today .......

Cheers
Matt

True. Though what I was getting at was the sense in which the nobility saw ownership, even of individuals as "their rights". :)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Patrice on December 15, 2020, 06:23:45 PM
what I was getting at was the sense in which the nobility saw ownership, even of individuals as "their rights". :)

In all periods of history, members of the ruling class (or whatever you call it) always tend to feel that what they own (or nearly own if they can grab it) is their right...  ::)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Atheling on December 15, 2020, 06:44:57 PM
In all periods of history, members of the ruling class (or whatever you call it) always tend to feel that what they own (or nearly own if they can grab it) is their right...  ::)

Well, yes, that much is self evident, but what I was pointing out is that their attitude was different than that of say, modern times. :) For example, ownership, often involving people. The idea of owning your household, lock stock and the people too.

EDIT: Text changed as I think what I wrote "sounded" a little too sharp.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 17, 2020, 07:57:01 PM
A number of leading Breton nobles mustered to the call of the Breton Ordonances call to arms, like all border regions some families were split, especially those who had lands and Family in the border Marchers of Anjou, Maine and Normandy.

Prince Francois de Rohan the 19 year old son of Jean II Vicomte de Rohan and Marie de Brittany(daughter of Duke Francois I of Brittany) . His Father Jean II Vicomte de Rohan had elected depart his allegiance to Francois I Duke of Brittany to side with the French King handing his border chateaux over to the French armies, coming from the Blois line, he also an ancient claim to the Dukedom of Brittany. 

At the coming of the war young Francois de Rohan like most young Breton Nobles was in the household of the Duke Francois, and in 1487 rallied to the Breton Duke, when Nantes was under siege lead the Arrie Ban of Cornouaillais and Leonard in its relief breaking the siege.

In 1488 at the battle of Saint Aubin du Cormier he lead one of the Breton MAA companies on the right Flank, he was killed it was thought by French artillery.


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Clepe7_A-so/X9utxT9a3mI/AAAAAAAAatg/nm-y6Ge4M_UL8i63HABILNkIBOtmqsvRgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h640/3A915286-BC25-48B0-9350-AD52963FE187.jpeg)

full information and his companions on my blog
https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2020/12/prince-francois-de-rohan-and-breton-maa.html (https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2020/12/prince-francois-de-rohan-and-breton-maa.html)


the battlefield tour is here
https://www.lhoteldeherce.fr/product-page/breton-war-of-independance (https://www.lhoteldeherce.fr/product-page/breton-war-of-independance)


cheers
matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Patrice on December 17, 2020, 09:05:13 PM
(ooops error)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Patrice on December 17, 2020, 09:12:54 PM
Prince Francois de Rohan the 19 year old son of Jean II Vicomte de Rohan and Marie de Brittany(daughter of Duke Francois I of Brittany) . His Father Jean II Vicomte de Rohan had elected depart his allegiance to Francois I Duke of Brittany to side with the French King handing his border chateaux over to the French armies, coming from the Blois line, he also an ancient claim to the Dukedom of Brittany. 

At the coming of the war young Francois de Rohan like most young Breton Nobles was in the household of the Duke Francois, and in 1487 rallied to the Breton Duke

It was sometimes a practice for noble families... One family member on each side... Those on the losing side would be punished by the winner (king or duke...) who would say: "You are a traitor! I confiscate your lands and I will own them under my crown!" ...and the other member of the family, who was on the winning side, would say: "Um, my lord, I was on your side in this war, and this is the lands of my family..." and the king, or duke, was compelled to say: "OK I give them to you!" ...so it was back in family property.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 17, 2020, 09:46:35 PM
It was sometimes a practice for noble families... One family member on each side... Those on the losing side would be punished by the winner (king or duke...) who would say: "You are a traitor! I confiscate your lands and I will own them under my crown!" ...and the other member of the family, who was on the winning side, would say: "Um, my lord, I was on your side in this war, and this is the lands of my family..." and the king, or duke, was compelled to say: "OK I give them to you!" ...so it was back in family property.

yes very common, particularly on the Border Marchers of Maine, Normandy, Anjou and Brittany. The Laval Family also done the same François de Laval fought for Brittany and Comte Guy de Laval for France.

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 17/12
Post by: bluewillow on December 19, 2020, 09:47:29 PM
 Another English Archer unit complete, or are they..... this unit will be a proxy English unit. The Bretons placed 1700 men with Tabard of the Red Cross of St George, the victorious French at the battle of Saint-Aubin-du-Cormier put everyone wearing the Red Cross to the sword, only the young squire of Sir Edward Woodville (Lord Scales) survived as he was wearing his own arms.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f0wx1sxZqqQ/X95htmqBEZI/AAAAAAAAauw/Wk5lIYfqjes0Fi1oGYw98EajifaabnxCACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h338/3223BBCC-6117-46CD-AD2F-BB46F2930E4F.jpeg)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 20/12
Post by: Atheling on December 19, 2020, 11:12:07 PM
Lovely Matt  :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 6/12
Post by: Shahbahraz on December 28, 2020, 01:13:06 AM
It was sometimes a practice for noble families... One family member on each side... Those on the losing side would be punished by the winner (king or duke...) who would say: "You are a traitor! I confiscate your lands and I will own them under my crown!" ...and the other member of the family, who was on the winning side, would say: "Um, my lord, I was on your side in this war, and this is the lands of my family..." and the king, or duke, was compelled to say: "OK I give them to you!" ...so it was back in family property.
Also a common practice in the various Sottish wars, where the son would declare for Douglas or Stewart, and the next son for the opposite side. The Stewarts tended to be better at it, with the Campbells, who somehow always contrived to be on the winning side.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 20/12
Post by: bluewillow on January 22, 2021, 10:18:23 PM
Mercenary Swiss from the canton of Saint Gall

Perry Miniatures

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZWqZS_6Wii8/YAtEKncxCZI/AAAAAAAAa6Y/b67mwPMw_pI-pzuoh5i4O0SQuDYZjS55gCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/C45042EB-08FC-4983-9EA9-F31BE9BAE08B.jpeg)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 20/12
Post by: Atheling on January 23, 2021, 09:24:15 AM
Lovely stuff Matt  8)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 20/12
Post by: commissarmoody on January 23, 2021, 05:07:32 PM
Nice looking band of mercs.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 20/12
Post by: bluewillow on February 10, 2021, 12:56:52 AM
Swiss Pikemen mercenaries from the canton of Saint Gall, Perry miniatures

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xgighgyA3r4/YCMt-XJwAXI/AAAAAAAAa-c/ZD7xbfgLuJoFRt5dFHntJYg5zcB05E9RgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h498/4AE6BEAC-D5DB-4EE1-8F46-4D3D8BE2CEB3.jpeg)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 10/2/21
Post by: Iain R on February 10, 2021, 01:02:29 AM
Lovely stuff, Matt!
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 10/2/21
Post by: Atheling on February 10, 2021, 01:52:31 PM
Lovely Matt  :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 10/2/21
Post by: bluewillow on February 10, 2021, 04:58:13 PM
Cheers lads
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 update 10/2/21
Post by: bluewillow on March 12, 2021, 09:26:38 PM
As I am basing and completing miniatures this week, I have some more foot this week for my own project for the Guerre Folle, the 1488 campaign in Bretagne.

The French Bandes d'Infanterie pikemen performed well in the campaign with a number of veterans from the Burgundian wars.  The Bandes d'Infanterie (old Arrière-ban) were to be formed along the Swiss model, but were in some documents were still referred to as Ordonnance still. The units if formed along the old ordonnance structure of one mounted MAA, 3 archers (mounted for transport) and one polearm foot, this gets confusing trying to make the numbers match up for the units, for the battle of Saint-Aubin-du-Cormier. 6000 odd of the Normandy Arrière-ban were raised for the invasion (only 3000 were present at the battle though)

These chaps will be one of 8 French pike double base units (representing 1000 men) for the French army, plus attached crossbow, archers and flanks of halberds, I hope to have them all finished by April this year.  Figures from the Perry plastic mercenaries box, which I think is the best box available.


(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OipN8ELvJ9w/YEkDU1Fkd7I/AAAAAAAAbSs/1-Zbg6KDKOU6_R4SKU2d-n75nsuKgzC6ACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h504/31741ACA-FBB9-4F31-9820-D615CB2F10FB.jpeg)

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21
Post by: Patrice on March 12, 2021, 09:52:21 PM
Superb and fascinating.  :o

...although they are, obviously, the bad guys from my own point of view!
lol
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21
Post by: bluewillow on March 12, 2021, 09:55:34 PM
Superb and fascinating.  :o

...although they are, obviously, the bad guys from my own point of view!
lol

Yes as Breton you would think that !

Never fear, Bretons next !

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21
Post by: Wellington Bonaparte on March 12, 2021, 11:46:20 PM
Really like the way you do the bases and I completely agree the mercenaries box is superb and so useful for kit bashing
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21
Post by: Atheling on March 13, 2021, 09:47:06 AM
Lovely work Matt  :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21
Post by: Iain R on March 15, 2021, 11:40:37 AM
Those look great, Matt, well done!
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21
Post by: bluewillow on March 15, 2021, 07:47:03 PM
Thanks guys!

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21
Post by: bluewillow on July 30, 2021, 01:33:44 PM
Another Breton Crossbow unit completed, Perry miniatures again

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vgUbp5Byb_E/YQPi4BIGa0I/AAAAAAAAcCw/YWUyCg4IfmQuNZN-__NS0PjwbpQyjzrDgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h358/AA60B3F1-07FF-4634-8E5F-DB70723BE251.jpeg)

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 29/07/2021
Post by: Atheling on July 30, 2021, 03:44:34 PM
Cracking stuff Matt  :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Crossbow 29/07/2021
Post by: commissarmoody on July 30, 2021, 06:12:46 PM
Very nice!
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Crossbow 29/07/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 11, 2021, 07:30:05 PM
Breton Arquebusiers

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gQLw3d_28rk/YRNcbEt3nBI/AAAAAAAAcH0/p4yF4CSF13MddiYFwzjM8e2geQTDjZHDgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h302/9048AE42-07ED-4F71-B7BC-B87C617C9521.jpeg)

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Crossbow 29/07/2021
Post by: Atheling on August 12, 2021, 07:30:24 AM
Lovely work Matt  :-*

That army has to be pretty big by now?
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Crossbow 29/07/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 13, 2021, 07:41:50 AM
Lovely work Matt  :-*

That army has to be pretty big by now?

Yes around 15 bases, I need 25 including cavalry, just completed three more. The Aragonese, Genoa and Castile contingents next, then the cavalry. Then complete I think, then the French Ordonnance with Swiss and Italian mercenaries. (Then my wotr English can be retired who currently stand as proxy French)

I hope to finish the project this year. Just need to get cracking on assembly and painting.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Crossbow 29/07/2021
Post by: Atheling on August 13, 2021, 10:14:46 AM
Yes around 15 bases, I need 25 including cavalry, just completed three more. The Aragonese, Genoa and Castile contingents next, then the cavalry. Then complete I think, then the French Ordonnance with Swiss and Italian mercenaries. (Then my wotr English can be retired who currently stand as proxy French)

Zoiks!  :o

I hope to finish the project this year. Just need to get cracking on assembly and painting.

It the assembly of plastics that kills me. Not so much the actual gluing but rather the fine filing od all the flash which is just as hard to get rid of as the metal stuff as it is a lot finer and not as easy to spot! :'(
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Crossbow 29/07/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 13, 2021, 09:52:02 PM
It the assembly of plastics that kills me. Not so much the actual gluing but rather the fine filing od all the flash which is just as hard to get rid of as the metal stuff as it is a lot finer and not as easy to spot! :'(

Agree I can clean up 30 odd metal figures then have them undercoated  and in the production line before I would have a box of plastics together.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Crossbow 29/07/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 29, 2021, 03:51:26 PM
Breton Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen, again Perry miniatures, for my Breton Guerre Folle-mad war. cloth flag, based for Impetus.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-FPrH4Iyx0J0/YSurL5aIAEI/AAAAAAAAcJQ/encS-3VTEncT5yT7_jBr1MXJo-Be-M2SwCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h364/2E968D16-93D7-4B20-B64E-57A9A8D1F6B7.jpeg)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uyhiGfvj0TA/YSurRWd6_oI/AAAAAAAAcJY/Pmm9Nvjr99cdKpbM9m1FQYtXQSiWnv3CwCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h430/9BB411E6-A8AF-416A-8E70-C0EC2D0BA91B.jpeg)

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen 29/08/2021
Post by: commissarmoody on August 29, 2021, 06:16:09 PM
And again, they look great.  :D
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen 29/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 29, 2021, 09:35:09 PM
Cheers, another foot unit completed tonight. Then onto some cavalry.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen 29/08/2021
Post by: Iain R on August 30, 2021, 10:48:57 AM
Very nice!
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen 29/08/2021
Post by: Captain Blood on August 30, 2021, 12:08:33 PM
Nicely done Matt  8)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen 29/08/2021
Post by: Atheling on August 30, 2021, 01:12:04 PM
Excellent stuff Matt  :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen 29/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 30, 2021, 05:35:52 PM
Cheers lads, spurring I’m at the moment to complete the Bretons by October.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Compagnie d'ordonnance billmen 29/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 30, 2021, 08:58:57 PM
Another unit for the Guerre Folle Mad War, Lord Edward Woodville, the Last Knight Errant, if you want his full story go to my blog

https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2021/08/edward-woodville-last-knight-errant.html (https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2021/08/edward-woodville-last-knight-errant.html)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rTVgA5myx4g/YS0mkEeCulI/AAAAAAAAcJk/EnJHkl2O9zY9RbijACILh648BLQbrgI9ACLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h536/CDED30B3-FC20-43F2-85FC-C4EA1B93B532.png)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F_dhmFW84x8/YS0mn7U_yOI/AAAAAAAAcJo/68w6fE3kQxoxHq5uEvkZRN0rmXYdORkWgCLcBGAsYHQ/w640-h454/FE3A807B-8EB9-4FBC-B0C1-0488AA0CFACE.jpeg)

cheers
matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: Patrice on August 30, 2021, 09:35:57 PM
Superb!

...I can't believe they could be defeated.  ::)
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: commissarmoody on August 30, 2021, 10:32:19 PM
Looking nice
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 31, 2021, 07:09:52 AM
Superb!

...I can't believe they could be defeated.  ::)

I think if the army had leapt onto the French vanguard rather than let them deploy and bring up the guns they may of had a chance, but too much indecision.

The ground suited cavalry so the Italian heavy cavalry mercenaries smashed the Breton Ordonnance, after being softened up by the French field artillery, the fire was devastating, the Germans failed against the Swiss left. The reckless charge by Edward Woodville did not help things breaking the French line, but unsupported was always going to fail.

A chance was taken but ultimately failed.

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: tomrommel1 on August 31, 2021, 08:36:35 AM
What a wonderfull project!!! :-*
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on August 31, 2021, 07:44:38 PM
What a wonderfull project!!! :-*

Thank you it has been a labour wading through historical documents for information in French and English. I have been piecing it together for 3 years so far. I plan on doing a article for a magazine or perhaps a pamphlet about the period like my 100years war ones with leading identity’s and armorials.   

Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: Atheling on September 01, 2021, 10:06:35 AM
Thank you it has been a labour wading through historical documents for information in French and English. I have been piecing it together for 3 years so far. I plan on doing a article for a magazine or perhaps a pamphlet about the period like my 100years war ones with leading identity’s and armorials.   


What a great idea Matt and what an excellent way of bringing a fairly murky war (at least in English) to light  8)

A pamphlet would be brilliant, and preferable IMHO as all the info is comprehensive and available easily  as opposed to having to trawl though a pile of wargames mags to find the info- yes, I still buy hard copies of wargames mags  lol
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: Patrice on September 01, 2021, 10:51:05 AM
I think if the army had leapt onto the French vanguard rather than let them deploy and bring up the guns they may of had a chance, but too much indecision.

The ground suited cavalry so the Italian heavy cavalry mercenaries smashed the Breton Ordonnance, after being softened up by the French field artillery, the fire was devastating, the Germans failed against the Swiss left. The reckless charge by Edward Woodville did not help things breaking the French line, but unsupported was always going to fail.

A chance was taken but ultimately failed.

Yes. But anyway the overall (political, financial, diplomatical) situation of Brittany was bad in these years. Pr Jean Kerhervé of Brest University did a lot of research about the Breton state administration and finance of the 15th century and explains it well.

France was the main European power at the time (and remained so till c.1520) having defeated Burgundy in 1477 and taken a large part of its territory, artillery, finances etc. It could afford to pay an army to walk along the Breton border every year even if doing nothing else, while Brittany was quickly going to bankrupcy if trying to face it every time. And other countries did not dare interfere by fear of fighting France.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on September 01, 2021, 10:59:07 AM
What a great idea Matt and what an excellent way of bringing a fairly murky war (at least in English) to light  8)

A pamphlet would be brilliant, and preferable IMHO as all the info is comprehensive and available easily  as opposed to having to trawl though a pile of wargames mags to find the info- yes, I still buy hard copies of wargames mags  lol

I plan to release a downloadable PDF from our website on the second war of Breton Succession, and on the wargames vault also I think. Probably do the same for the three phases of the 100 years war, notable battles plus the first Breton War of Succession 1341-65 (which occured all around us).

Then some 13th century ones, for the Plantagenet civil war, the brothers vs Father, then Breton Arthur Plantagenet vs John Lackland war, then Bouvines, and perhaps some English Scottish wars . Nothing better to do this winter!

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on September 01, 2021, 11:29:45 AM
Yes. But anyway the overall (political, financial, diplomatical) situation of Brittany was bad in these years. Pr Jean Kerhervé of Brest University did a lot of research about the Breton state administration and finance of the 15th century and explains it well.

France was the main European power at the time (and remained so till c.1520) having defeated Burgundy in 1477 and taken a large part of its territory, artillery, finances etc. It could afford to pay an army to walk along the Breton border every year even if doing nothing else, while Brittany was quickly going to bankrupcy if trying to face it every time. And other countries did not dare interfere by fear of fighting France.

Yes I have a number of Jean Kerhervé documents, it cleared up relationships a lot for me. Always hard to beat someone with more money than you.

I feel the only hope was to Marry Anne to a outside in influence of the French,  not that the French Monarchy would allow that. Francis II of Brittany failed to be decisive I feel, although he was in a hard place.  The other suitors for Anne of Brittany were many, she was betrothed to several, Edward Prince of Wales(Edwards IV sons killed in the tower), Henry Tudor (while in asylum was refused by Francois II), Maximilian I of Austria, (marriage was completed by Proxy, but then renounced after France threatened to Invade),Alain I of Albret (48 years old and totally unsuitable as first cousin), John IV of Chalon-Arlay Prince of Orange (first Cousin), Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham (nephew of King Edward IV, and nephew of Edward Woodville), Francis de Rohan ( son of Viscount John II of Rohan, another relative), and finally Louis d'Orleans (the future King Louis XII king of France, whom she married anyway after marrying after Charles VIII died!)

A male heir was needed, sadly the line was failing after Arthur III failed to have a son to carry on the legacy with any of his three wives. and two older relatives become duke and failed to produce male heirs. Brittany still could of been saved if Anne and Louis XII had the arranged marriage of her daughter, Claude, heiress of the Duchy, to Charles of Austria. This match would reinforce the Franco-Spanish alliance and ensure French success in the Italian Wars. However it was not to be and Brittany become part of France after Annes death in 1514.

cheers
Matt

 
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: Charlie_ on September 01, 2021, 06:10:28 PM
John IV of Chalon-Arlay Prince of Orange

I believe he was her cousin as well.
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Edward Woodville Knight errant 30/08/2021
Post by: bluewillow on September 01, 2021, 06:47:53 PM
Yes first cousin, every one was a bloody relative in most royal households!

cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Aragon Arbalète /09/2021
Post by: bluewillow on September 21, 2021, 07:02:28 AM
Aragonese Arbalète - Crossbow completed, over 1000 Aragonese foot fought as mercenaries in the Breton army at the battle of Saint Aubin du Cormier, again Perry Minatures based for impetus.

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XrDxdrzXHH0/YUjsIZzrSuI/AAAAAAAAcOw/lGGZV_QD91UI7x4KvXCGcsr4IDo1H-I7gCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/40219B8E-0809-4FDA-95AF-9CF94CC20CBD.jpeg)

Full story as always on my blog
 https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2021/09/aragonese-mercenary-crossbow-guerre.html?m=1
 (https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2021/09/aragonese-mercenary-crossbow-guerre.html?m=1)
Cheers
Matt
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Aragon Arbalète /09/2021
Post by: commissarmoody on September 21, 2021, 07:45:12 AM
Nicely done!
Title: Re: The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Aragon Arbalète /09/2021
Post by: Atheling on September 21, 2021, 10:13:26 AM
Lovely work Matt  :-*