Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Fantasy Adventures => Topic started by: Leftblank on November 05, 2020, 10:34:20 PM
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I bought the Conan boardgame and feminized it partly, because I'd like to play it with my 12-yr old daughter and casually with friends, including female friends.
"If I were a stereotypical roleplaying girl – or my daughter – I wouldn’t identify myself with a lusty sexpot.
So although being a stereotypical male wargamer (and proud of it) I feminised/expanded the Conan game and gave the sex godesses proper clothes, Super Girl lycra style. How to ‘womanize’ Conan?"
more here: https://amsterdamwar.game.blog/2020/11/05/how-i-womanized-conan-painting-the-conan-miniature-boardgame-non-sexist/ (https://amsterdamwar.game.blog/2020/11/05/how-i-womanized-conan-painting-the-conan-miniature-boardgame-non-sexist/)
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/V16jLu6_EhTspkjOswz4lp9FK4Y=/0x0:400x300/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:400x300):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8848635/belit_conan.jpg)
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That was inspiring both in intentions and in execution. Being a father of two girls and one boy, and a feminist, I strongly feel that issue and will use your ideas. Thanks for sharing!
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First of all, I like your idea and your thoughts on this thematic.
This topic is not new and I think a lot of fathers (of daughters) have some kind of this thoughts too.
But here is what I don't get when I read these kind of topics: Isn't it some kind of a double standard? It is completly fine for the characters to be armed to the teeths and slay countless enemies witch martialic, blood covered weapons... But never ever should they show some skin.
Also - especially in the Conan universe - the guys are mostly naked too^^ I mean just look at the photo you attached in your post. Isn't that Conan also very "sexualized" and a completly unrealisitc body standard? But most parents of boys wouldn't even care if the Kids play with those figures.
Don't get me wrong. I completely understand your point. Thats just what I always think when I read such topics.
PS: Sry for crapy englisch -_-'
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Great idea, your post illustrates the whole point behind the push for more realistic female minis, that there are real people playing these games and not all of them are men born 1970-1990.
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Great idea, your post illustrates the whole point behind the push for more realistic female minis, that there are real people playing these games and not all of them are men born 1970-1990.
I also understand the point, but:
- What is with realistic male minis? (to be honest, that Belit mini looks more realistc then Conan...)
- Conan is maybe the worse example for this. That universe is full with agressive, testosteron driven, musclar killing machines and weak, curvy, beautiful women, who needs to be saved. It can be discussed if its wrong or not, but it is so. Changing that, changes the whole concept of Robert E. Howards world.
I still like the initiative of Leftblank, and its absolutely okay to change any of your games more child friendly, if you want to.
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good work LeftBlank.
a vexed issue for sure, but worth the effort in your home context.
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I also understand the point, but:
- What is with realistic male minis? (to be honest, that Belit mini looks more realistc then Conan...)
- Conan is maybe the worse example for this. That universe is full with agressive, testosteron driven, musclar killing machines and weak, curvy, beautiful women, who needs to be saved. It can be discussed if its wrong or not, but it is so. Changing that, changes the whole concept of Robert E. Howards world.
I still like the initiative of Leftblank, and its absolutely okay to change any of your games more child friendly, if you want to.
I'm not debating here, this is LAF not Facebook! All I really need to say is that I don't see anything wrong with changing any fantasy world however you like.
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I'm not debating here, this is LAF not Facebook! All I really need to say is that I don't see anything wrong with changing any fantasy world however you like.
Amen.
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Sometimes it takes a while to change something that seems normal because it's been established as canon.
Conan is definitely a cool concept, but kind of dated and cheesy. I loved Conan as a teen.
I had the exact same problem with my own daughter choosing appropriate minis as characters in games.
I always thought it was funny that Conan runs around in a loincloth most of the time. Where does he put his car keys anyways? ;D
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I'm not debating here, this is LAF not Facebook! All I really need to say is that I don't see anything wrong with changing any fantasy world however you like.
I have to quote myself...
I still like the initiative of Leftblank, and its absolutely okay to change any of your games more child friendly, if you want to.
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When my wife picks out minis, she has two types and I am always mystified by what she "likes". She has some "Sexpot" models that she adores and loves to paint, and then there are the "Sensible Women in Shoes" style that she likes to pick out and paint as well. My daughter on the other hand prefers, "Sensible Women" and "punk" style female minis. They also both like anthropomorphic models too
I have no idea from their perspective what is "exploitative" and what is not. Therefore, I let them pick what they want to play and how they paint them.
It is a difficult and challenging topic, and I like the discussion and effort put towards "inclusion" in our hobby rather than exclusion and gatekeeping.
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Lets keep this to the miniatures and the painting and not stray into other things!
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I'm a father to a young daughter and I definitely understand the motivation! I like your choice of alternatives.
I'm a big fan of the game too, I have had it since the original kikcstaryer and although I haven't played it as much as I would have liked I've always really enjoyed it when I have. The stamina system makes for a very tactical experience but always with the potential for epic Conan moments!
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It all depends on the audience. If I would play these board games only against other middle aged men with the same cheesy sense of humor, I hadn't bothered at all. Outside (female) players, not only my daughter, who not neccesarily know the Conan books but enjoy a terrific game, need characters they can identify with. With Americans you eat burgers, with Italians pizza.
Double standard? Bare-chested men are allowed in the community swimming pool. The skinny office workers I know have no problem to identify themselves with an exploding muscle. Case closed.
Anecdote: as a student I once was part of a role playing group with a GM who studied Theology, he was going to be a minister. So I created a chaotic evil Conan'-character, Bloodclot Brainpulp, who breached every and each of the Ten Commandments every session. The GM killed him. Not all men have a male sense of humor :-)
Maybe I'm softer these days.
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Anecdote: as a student I once was part of a role playing group with a GM who studied Theology, he was going to be a minister. So I created a chaotic evil Conan'-character, Bloodclot Brainpulp, who breached every and each of the Ten Commandments every session. The GM killed him. Not all men have a male sense of humor :-)
Maybe I'm softer these days.
I think a PC deliberately created to wilfully offend me and my beliefs each and everytime when I was putting in the time and effort to prep and run games might also develop a short life span. I don't think this is a sense of humour issue, male or otherewise...
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Starting to wobble off topic. Miniatures, painting, etc. please.
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When I painted a Celtos Gael Warband there were several female warriors I mixed in with the menfolk.
For example:
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I remember chatting to Annie from Bad Squiddo a few years back about this subject, when she first started making 'Believable Female Miniatures' herself instead of just stocking other manufacturers. She was saying she doesn't mind the cheesy 'boobs out' or chainmail bikini mins every now and then, if it's a nice model and it's appropriate to the game she wants to play. On the other hand, when playing more historically based games or fantasy games without the cheese, she wanted to have access to appropriate female models for that too. As a painter I wouldn't be too happy being asked to paint overtly sexualised models because it's not what the hobby is about for me personally. I've painted topless female figures before, but the style was very much cheese-less with no sexual overtones or titillation (stop sniggering at the back) to it.
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Lol. So you guys are basically aiming to game “enlightened” 21st century characters, with 21st century “sensibilities”, but who look like they’re at a Renaissance period costume party? :)
Dan
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Anecdote: as a student I once was part of a role playing group with a GM who studied Theology, he was going to be a minister. So I created a chaotic evil Conan'-character, Bloodclot Brainpulp, who breached every and each of the Ten Commandments every session. The GM killed him. Not all men have a male sense of humor :-)
Maybe I'm softer these days.
Therein lies the truth of it all. Methinks this entire topic was contrived for exactly such a warped shock/trigger effect.
Wish you the best.
Dan
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Come on guys, let's keep it friendly.
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I've painted topless female figures before, but the style was very much cheese-less with no sexual overtones or titillation (stop sniggering at the back) to it.
Cubs, with your gritty, drably realistic style and ability to paint uncannily varied and characterful faces I cannot help but think your work in this genre would be less Playboy and more Reader's Wives...
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Cubs, with your gritty, drably realistic style and ability to paint uncannily varied and characterful faces I cannot help but think your work in this genre would be less Playboy and more Reader's Wives...
:o
They were very much tattered, battered and bruised from what I recall.