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Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Cypher226 on November 27, 2020, 05:49:17 PM

Title: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Cypher226 on November 27, 2020, 05:49:17 PM
Hi all,

Inspired by playing Assassin's Creed Valhalla I'm expecting santa to bring me some Victrix Saxons and Vikings.

I want to get these on the table as quickly as possible, so I'm looking for a set of rules which let me get bands of a dozen to twenty warriors per side on the go (I reckon with contrast paints I can bash out a couple of small bands in a weekend)

Is there anything out there in the more purely historical sense, or should I go look at Song of Blades & Heroes or LOTR or similar?  I'm intending to ramp up to Saga pretty quickly.

I'm hoping to get cracking on a Saxon village this weekend as well - strike while the iron is hot and all that!

Cheers!
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: has.been on November 27, 2020, 07:21:05 PM
I would recommend the Fist Full of Lead family of rules.
Simple to learn & lots of fun. You can start with a few (4 to 6) figures per player,
then build up using their 'Big battles' set of rules.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Hobgoblin on November 27, 2020, 07:57:48 PM
Dan Mersey's Song of Arthur and Merlin (a Song of Blades variant) is well worth a look. It's Song of Blades but with a Dark Age twist and three settings (historical, Welsh, High Medieval).

If you've got to 12-20 a side, though, you can play Saga.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: SotF on November 27, 2020, 08:26:29 PM
I'' second Song of Arthur and Merlin. It tends to work well in small model count and has a lot of expansion and extension abilities, it also provides an easier bridge for getting other players into it
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Malamute on November 28, 2020, 08:37:56 AM
I would recommend the Fist Full of Lead family of rules.
Simple to learn & lots of fun. You can start with a few (4 to 6) figures per player,
then build up using their 'Big battles' set of rules.

Yes to this, start with Fistful of Lead Core rules, In this thread you will see a number of AArs and reports on the game play which will give you some ideas.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=121380.0

 There is a new supplement coming out in early 2021 called Might and Melee, the first book of a three book fantasy set which deals with medieval combat.

They are ideal for fielding 4-7 figures per player with any number of players.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Atheling on November 28, 2020, 10:16:35 AM
Some oldies but goodies......

Pigwars- great fun. aimed specifically at the "Dark Ages". Used to be available through old Glory USA and UK.

WAB! Yes, Warhammer Ancient Battles! If you use the Light Infantry rules then you can have units skirmish and move back into more organised formations such as Shieldwall and Boars Snout/Svinfylking. James Morris (author of Age of Arthur WAB Supplement)  ran a brilliant Arthurian skirmish game as part of the Age of Arthur WAB Campaign weekend which was great fun and sticks in my mind all these years later.

Guy Bowers, now the Editor of Wargames Soldiers and Strategy, wrote a WAB supplement called Siege and Conquest which dealt with sieges on a micro and macro scale. It is full of ideas for skirmish games and is found reasonably easily on eBay at a not very silly price.



Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Juan on November 28, 2020, 10:18:21 AM
"Fistful of Lead" is my first option but "The Barons War" from Footsore Miniatures is also very, very interesting and easy to adapt.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Atheling on November 28, 2020, 11:17:38 AM
"Fistful of Lead" is my first option but "The Barons War" from Footsore Miniatures is also very, very interesting and easy to adapt.

Unfortunately I haven't yet seen a copy of The Baron's War, I was going to be sent an early draft for a Siege of Shrewsbury 1069 skirmish (and large battle) game I was scheduled to put on but unfortunately Covid put pay to that. The rules do seem to have had very extensive playtesting and are more or less aimed at the 11th CE to the 13 CE so I'm guessing they would make a good set too.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Cypher226 on November 28, 2020, 11:00:35 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, I wasn't aware of Song of Arthur & Merlin.  Barons War and Fistful of Lead sound promising - especially the forthcoming medieval version.

WAB - I suppose in that vein I could probably adapt Warhammer Skirmish or Mordheim... That has potential now I think of it....
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Atheling on November 28, 2020, 11:31:01 PM
WAB - I suppose in that vein I could probably adapt Warhammer Skirmish or Mordheim... That has potential now I think of it....

I'm not very familiar with Mordheim so can't really comment though i imagine it is very derivative of WHFB. Odd really as I used to play a lot of WHFB up to 6th Ed.

Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: SBMiniaturesGuy on November 29, 2020, 03:43:31 AM
Dux Britanniarum is a great warband level game with a good built-in campaign system.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Tonhel on November 29, 2020, 08:44:15 AM
The Barons war ruleset is perfect. The pdf send to backers has only unit lists for late 12th / early 13th century. But soon there will be free armylists for various Dark Ages factions (Normans, Saxons, Vikings, Irish and etc.. .)

The retinue list building is fantastic and very immersive.

Imo, the best ruleset I've seen in a long time. :D

About small scale: Here is an extract about it:

Quote
Miniatures
The Barons' War is a skirmish game designed to
be played using 28mm miniatures. You can play
with as few as 15 Warriors on each side to get
you started. As the rules are very flexible this
number can be increased to 40 or more Warriors
a side. The main difference being games with
more figures take longer than games with fewer.
Warriors are mounted on 25mm round bases for
infantry, or foot troops, and 25mm x 50mm pillshaped bases for cavalry, or mounted troops.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: SteveBurt on November 29, 2020, 11:32:58 AM
The GW Lord of the Rings rules work really well for Dark Age skirmishes - which is what LOTR skirmishes basically are. Available free these days I think.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Cypher226 on November 30, 2020, 01:18:55 PM
Baron's War is sounding more and more interesting.

I'm sure I've got an old copy of the GW LOTR rules knocking about.  Never played it barring a single demo when it first came out so I don't really remember much about it!
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: mellis1644 on November 30, 2020, 01:35:32 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Blood Eagle from The Ministry of Gentlemanly Warfare. I have never played it but thought this was popular. That seems to fit the request...
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: S_P on November 30, 2020, 02:30:59 PM
Go cheap- these play really well :

https://www.wargamevault.com/product/128006/Victory-with-Honour?manufacturers_id=6623
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Atheling on November 30, 2020, 02:59:34 PM
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Blood Eagle from The Ministry of Gentlemanly Warfare. I have never played it but thought this was popular. That seems to fit the request...

There used to be an absolutely brilliant set called Skjaldborg that really captured small scale Early Medieval Shieldwall type clashes.

I think it was available for free from Shieldwall Games. Alas, I think they are long gone as when I typed the URL into it lead to World of Warcraft page!  o_o :o

I've got a paper copy but no pdf or I would happily send you the file.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Ghost on November 30, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
You could give a try to "Open Combat" for some games with less than ten miniatures per sides and "Knyghte, pyke and sworde" for bigger skirmishes.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Codsticker on December 01, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
This just landed in my inbox this morning courtesy of Little Wars: Ravenfeast. (http://www.ravenfeast.com/)
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Sir_Theo on December 01, 2020, 06:59:28 PM
This just landed in my inbox this morning courtesy of Little Wars: Ravenfeast. (http://www.ravenfeast.com/)

I was just about to post this very thing! Looks like a fun game.

I love Little Wars TV.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Codsticker on December 01, 2020, 07:44:51 PM
I was just about to post this very thing! Looks like a fun game.

I love Little Wars TV.
They do wonderful work! I haven't had a chance to look over the rules but I am intrigued...
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: metalface13 on December 01, 2020, 08:51:09 PM
The GW Lord of the Rings rules work really well for Dark Age skirmishes - which is what LOTR skirmishes basically are. Available free these days I think.

Unfortunately the latest version of the LotR rules are not free. The good news is, a new edition just came out a few years ago! The rules and armies books are available from GW.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Middle-earth?N=1777647504+442941151&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AUS_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_US_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1606827000000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1606827000000%5D (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Middle-earth?N=1777647504+442941151&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AUS_gw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_US_gw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1606827000000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1606827000000%5D)

However if you don't care about the latest rules, I'm sure you could find the older rulebooks for cheap.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: BeneathALeadMountain on December 02, 2020, 02:33:22 AM
Cypher I’d second the LoTR rules. It won’t take much to adjust to what you want to do and they’re a really good, tight enjoyable ruleset that does skirmish very well. There’s plenty of Armies/troops to pick from/ use as equivalents and this’ll allow you to get the different combatants behaving as you’d want them to. They do heroes very well as well and there are lots of scenarios you can adapt.

There’s also BattleLust which describes itself as medieval combat but in reality seems more like dark age to early medieval. I have it but haven’t played it yet but bought it for the exact reason you stated: this is it’s BGG page https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/7984/battlelust-mediaeval-battle-system (https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/7984/battlelust-mediaeval-battle-system),

If I were you I’d go for LoTR - it’s simple yet does exactly what you want.

Hope this helps,
BALM
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Jagannath on December 02, 2020, 12:16:57 PM
If you can get hold of the big blue LOTR book (I think it was just called Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game - it's hardback) it'll have all you need - plenty of troops to proxy and it's really easy to compare profiles and see how the points are constructed that it'll take no time at all to build your own troops. I used to use it for 15mm a lot.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: SteveBurt on December 02, 2020, 02:38:45 PM
There's a free set on my website:
http://fluffycat.co.uk/Steves_Web_Page/Rules_files/Darkage.html (http://fluffycat.co.uk/Steves_Web_Page/Rules_files/Darkage.html)
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Patrice on December 02, 2020, 05:23:09 PM
As everyone gives his suggestions, I'll do that too :D and mention Argad! which is more intended for RPG-minded games (these rules work better when a game master / umpire prepares a story and handles some NPCs). http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/en.html
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Codsticker on December 03, 2020, 05:18:04 AM
Little Wars has posted an AAR/play through of Ravenfeast for those that are interested- link. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=macRgkAACBQ)
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Atheling on December 03, 2020, 08:13:02 AM
Well, we've probably done a great job at confusing Cypher226. I really hope not.

Cypher226, I think, overall, when choosing a rule sets, the best thing to do is to to try to define what you want out of said rules. Realism, fun (seems obvious), period feel etc. Also, what Century as that can make a big difference.

For example, Lion Rampant is great deal of fun but really has nothing at all to do with the manner in which we think 'Dark Ages' battles must have been fought (insofar as we can tell). Great game, very loose on the history.

Dux Britanniarum is the almost the opposite, very good on the history, a fun game too.

I suppose, at the end of the day, the best thing to do is read as many independent reviews as possible, though this might not be possible with some of the home grown/small scale print runs rule sets.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: steders on December 03, 2020, 08:33:23 AM
If you can get hold of the big blue LOTR book (I think it was just called Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game - it's hardback) it'll have all you need - plenty of troops to proxy and it's really easy to compare profiles and see how the points are constructed that it'll take no time at all to build your own troops. I used to use it for 15mm a lot.
Totally agree with this. The LOTR SBG is one of the best rules systems GW ever made, really tight, very simple but loads to think about. Heroes are brilliant in it. The Battle of Amon Hen (the big fight at the end of the first LOTR film) is great fun, played it quite a few times. Basically 4 good guys (plus halflings) against a horde of orcs. Always turns out really close.

Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Patrice on December 04, 2020, 11:09:20 AM
This just landed in my inbox this morning courtesy of Little Wars: Ravenfeast. (http://www.ravenfeast.com/)

 :o It seems interesting, I'll have a look at this.

Well, we've probably done a great job at confusing Cypher226. I really hope not.

Cypher226, I think, overall, when choosing a rule sets, the best thing to do is to to try to define what you want out of said rules. Realism, fun (seems obvious), period feel etc. Also, what Century as that can make a big difference.

Better too many answers than none at all, I suppose.  :D

One other thing in choosing a ruleset is: which one will want to play other gamers in the area? People can be reluctant to change the ruleset they use if it already works fine for their gaming group.
Title: Re: New to Dark Ages... Small scale skirmish rules?
Post by: Harry Faversham on December 04, 2020, 01:11:51 PM
It seems interesting, I'll have a look at this.

I'm thinking the same about 'Ravenfeast', and will certainly give them a pop. At least till FFofL's scrapping with pointy cutlery supplement comes out.

:-*