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Miniatures Adventure => Colonial Adventures => Topic started by: bc99 on November 28, 2020, 11:31:45 PM

Title: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: bc99 on November 28, 2020, 11:31:45 PM
I know British Sailors have participated in numerous of the Queens Little Wars, the one Iím most familiar with is the Sudan Nile Expedition.

Where were the Royal Marines? Were they part of the naval brigade that went ashore? Did they see significant action, or any action during the 19th century little wars?

Thank you
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: italwars on November 28, 2020, 11:57:59 PM
Every question could be answered with YES!
I do not think anyway that the sailors were brigaded,  ashore, alongside with RMLI
From a wargame point of view to have a MG (Gardner or Gatling ) or a small piece manned by a landing party is a must for Sudan tabletop battles
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Plynkes on November 29, 2020, 12:13:22 AM
In the Zulu War the Marines seem to have been counted as part of the Naval Brigades (though they wore their own blue uniforms and white sun helmets, they weren't dressed like the sailors), but in the Sudan they were their own thing, and separate from them. Off the top of my head, the Royal Marine Light Infantry (RMLI) and Royal Marine Artillery (RMA) were involved in both the Zulu War and the Sudan. Probably most famously, they were also involved in the Boxer Rebellion (Some consider that to be 20th Century, but for my money the year 1900 was the last year of the 19th Century, not the first of the 20th, but that's a debate for another day).

The RMLI and RMA were part of Graham's force in the Suakin campaigns of 1884/85, and thus fought against the famous "Fuzzy Wuzzies", that is to say Osman Digna's Hadendowa tribesmen.


Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on November 29, 2020, 04:35:24 AM
Great info. Thank you both.

Would their equipment differ much from the kit used by the army? I have a box of Perry Sudan/Afghanistan. Would these work well?

Iíve found several pictures that depict the RMLI in a grayish-blue uniform, and some Iím a dark blue uniform. Iím sure depending on the campaign the uniform changed but was one more standard?
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Diablo Jon on November 29, 2020, 09:26:01 AM
You have the capture of Witu in 1890 on the east African coast which involved British forces avenging the massacre of nine Germans by Sultan Bakari. It involved 700 sailors and Marines from eight British warships (plus 100 IBEA Indian police and 100 Zanzibari regulars) with 4 MGs and 4 7pdr guns. (the picture below is allegedly of the British advance on Witu)

Also in east Africa you have the Mazrui rebellion of 1895-1896 which involved at least 400 marines and sailors supported by Regular Zanzibari soldiers storming a number of Arab rebel stockades.

In both cases  the sailors and marines seem to have fought together which I guess is unsurprising as the Royal Navy seem to have been reacting to a local problem with what ever they had available at the time.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/54/d0/f9/54d0f9c895a6203eda7105a6b1a93adb.jpg)

(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_DJ9oC9p8yiQ/TFLqmrCFdmI/AAAAAAAAGZo/N5wZ3BWZK5Y/s1600/Witu1890.jpg)
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Plynkes on November 29, 2020, 11:45:58 AM
The dress uniform for the RMLI was the red tunic, blue trousers and Home Service helmet, same as the army. They didn't wear this in action during the period we are considering, though.

In the Zulu War, and in Egypt in 1882, the RMLI wore dark blue uniforms. Other than the colour, they were the same as those worn by the Army, so you can use Zulu War Brits for those (your Perry boys aren't quite right for that, but I'm sure they'd do).

The Sudan campaigns were a time of experimentation in new uniform colours. Many of the troops (including the RMLI) wore a light grey uniform designed to be a bit less visible. This colour wasn't used again in any other conflicts, as far as I know. Again, your Perry figures aren't quite right, as I think they have putteees, which the RMLI didn't wear in the Sudan. But they are pretty close.

Don't have any solid info to hand on what was worn in the African campaign mentioned by Diablo Jon.

Those Marines in China that were part of the defence of the legations wore white trousers, a dark blue 'work order' tunic, and a blue forage cap. The ones involved in the relief efforts wore khaki or summer whites with sun helmets.



So I guess it all depends what you want to use them for. There isn't really a single style that fits all cases (never bloody is, is there?). But I guess dark blue would be the most common early on, and maybe tropical whites in the 1890s, if you want a more generic unit, rather than one tailored to a particular campaign.


Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Jack Jones on November 29, 2020, 05:06:41 PM
Regarding the Naval Brigades, Richard Brooksí The Long Arm of Empire: Naval Brigades from The Crimea
to The Boxer Rebellion
is a really good reference.

Brooks states that Naval Brigade organisation and operations ashore were specified with precision in the 1859 document Instructions for the Exercise of Small Arms, Field Pieces, etc for the Use of Her Majestyís Ships.

Companies comprised 80 men, commanded by a Lieutenant, aided by three Petty Officers, and two Boatswainís Mates or Midshipmen.

A ship of the line might be able to deploy two such companies, a frigate one, and a sloop half.

When companies were brigaded together they were commanded by a Senior Captain or Commander, aided by a Lieutenant (adjutant or brigade major).

I believe RMLI were deployed in companies and battalions. These were sometimes brigaded with army infantry battalions.

I am modelling the early Sudan campaign, and using line infantry (without puttees) with light infantry command figures for my RMLI companies.

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on November 29, 2020, 08:54:03 PM
Continued good info. What are people using for RMI? I have copplestone, empress(I believe), foundry DA, and Perry. So hopefully figs that would fit with those ranges.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Jack Jones on November 29, 2020, 09:01:11 PM
I am collecting Perry Miniatures, but scouting compatible ranges to fill gaps or provide conversion possibilities.

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on November 30, 2020, 10:39:06 PM
Again wonderful information.

I have taken a look at the book about the Naval Brigades and will probably pick it up from Amazon. As this has now slightly started to focus on the Sudan Campaign via comments, and I have the ear of some very learned individuals, what would be a comparable book for the Sudan Campaign in general.

I've taken a look at Project Guttenberg's copy of the River War, and will most likely peruse that. I'm thinking more of a modern-ish review of the Campaign. There seems to be very little about recent trips out to the various battlefields, if someone has a website that has any modern photographs of the battlefields I'd be very interested as well.

Finally, I've just received some Perry and Copplestone miniatures, so will be slowly putting them together to make a fighting force.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: marco55 on December 01, 2020, 01:02:37 AM
Here's a book.Many out there.   https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/go-strong-into-the-desert/
Mark
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Jack Jones on December 01, 2020, 05:04:04 AM
Brooksí book is great, but only a small section is devoted to the Sudan.

Go Strong into the Desert is excellent, full of detail (OoBs, uniforms, contemporary illustrations, annotated battlefield photography) and likely to be sufficient for collecting/wargaming the early campaign.

If you want to go deeper, Snookís Beyond the Reach of Empire: Wolseleyís Failed Campaign to Save Gordon and Khartoum is the book to go to, and an excellent companion volume to Go Strong Ö.

My own (burgeoning) list of references is here:

https://sandsofsoudan.blogspot.com/p/references.html (https://sandsofsoudan.blogspot.com/p/references.html)

alongside my narrative of the development of my own Sudan project.

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Plynkes on December 01, 2020, 08:26:06 AM
As Jack says, Mike Snook's book has a fair few modern photos of the battlefields, with overlaid text and graphics showing troop dispositions and movements. Mostly Abu Klea (12 modern photos of that one), but a scattering of other places too (Abu Kru, El Teb, Tamai, Hashin).


It also has some rather nice colour uniform illustrations, done by one of the Perry Brothers (I forget which one).


Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on December 01, 2020, 08:05:28 PM
Strangely Go into the Desert is quite expensive here in the states. The cheapest I've found is $66, about 50 Pounds. That's double what the Perrys are selling the book for from their site. In that case, I believe I'll purchase directly from the Perry site, add a couple packs, and come out around $66 shipped.

I did use a gift card to purchase Snook's Beyond the Reach of the Empire.

Finally, as this is a miniatures site, I plan on preparing a test figure for my Naval Brigade. I'll get him prepped and worked on this weekend, hopefully get a picture up next week.

Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Jack Jones on December 01, 2020, 10:09:22 PM
I managed to find a mint second hand copy of ĎBeyond the Reach Öí for £20.

If you have a mind to buy books, the Warlord Gamesí Black Powder supplement Blood on the Nile is worth having, even if you donít use their rules.

Itís packed with photos of miniatures (predominantly Perry) as well as useful historical and gaming information. I bought it for the Fred Burnaby figure, and was pleasantly surprised by the rich content.

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/blood-on-the-nile/ (https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/blood-on-the-nile/)

Chees
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Plynkes on December 02, 2020, 12:08:29 AM
It has some great miniatures eye-candy, that's for sure. I enjoy leafing through it, and I don't play Black Powder.

Mind you, I am the sort of person who buys rules and supplements just to read, with no intention of ever playing them. I expect I have more sets of rules that I haven't played than ones that I have.

Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: marco55 on December 02, 2020, 01:51:29 AM
It has some great miniatures eye-candy, that's for sure. I enjoy leafing through it, and I don't play Black Powder.

Mind you, I am the sort of person who buys rules and supplements just to read, with no intention of ever playing them. I expect I have more sets of rules that I haven't played than ones that I have.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that just reads them also. Real nice photos too. lol
Mark
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on December 04, 2020, 04:50:26 AM
I also buy more games than I play just for the reading.

About the Royal Marines, Iíve seen the Perry painting guide, as well as some color plates a la Osprey and in some of the plates the Marines have a red stripe down their trouser legs.

Did the Royal Marines in the Sudan have the stripe on the grey uniforms during the campaign?
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Plynkes on December 04, 2020, 11:56:48 AM
I've seen that too, in a couple of modern illustrations.

Brian Robson, in his book "Fuzzy Wuzzy" has a uniform guide for the Suakin expeditions in the appendices. He makes no mention of the Marines having a red stripe. That's about all I have to go on, really. I don't know if they had them or not.



Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Jack Jones on December 04, 2020, 06:33:39 PM
I did not think there was stripe on the grey serge trousers Ö but the illustration on this page does show a red stripe 🤔

https://www.britishbattles.com/war-in-egypt-and-sudan/battle-of-tamai/ (https://www.britishbattles.com/war-in-egypt-and-sudan/battle-of-tamai/)
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on December 04, 2020, 10:09:19 PM
Wow, well there you go, it does look good doesn't it? I may just have to paint them that way because to me the dash of color, with their white gear, sets them apart a little bit. They'll have to wait though, as I've got the Naval Brigade and then some Perry plastic British to work on first.

Regarding the Naval Brigade, I'll have a group comparison shot of the various Naval Brigade miniatures I've found available: Empress, Copplestone, Perry.

The first few test figures are base coated and hopefully this weekend I'll be able to get some paint onto them.

Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on December 05, 2020, 07:58:34 AM
Here's a view of some Naval Brigade, ready for the brush.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-051220074123.jpeg)

From left to right:

Perry (on washer), Empress (on washer), OG Zulu British?, Perry (on Frostgrave base), Empress, Copplestone, Copplestone.

I really love Copplestone figures, he's probably my favorite sculptor. That being said, they're giant, especially the Sennet Cap fellow. I will probably combine Empress and Perry to finish out the units.

My takes:

Empress: Best looking sword bayonets, some flash straight down the middle, including the face. Spindly weapons. I love some of the poses they've got including a bearded fellow fishing into his ammo bag.

Perry: Great looking faces, nice details, sword bayonets small. Some flash.

OG: I was going to use this guy for RMLI, but I think he's from the Zulu era. Oh well.

Copplestone: Sturdy and robust, I love their faces. No fixed sword bayonet. I'm torn about working them up and into the units.

Over all the Perry and Empress miniatures and weapons scale well together... as do some of the accoutrements. Unfortunately the Copplestone minis seem to outsize everybody.

Now to put some paint on!

Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: carlos marighela on December 05, 2020, 10:00:53 AM
Probably the most interesting and almost certainly the most exotic brigading of the Royal Marines during Queen Victoriaís reign was the little known Syrian Expedition of 1840. There were two Royal Marine battalions, each of eight companies who fought alongside around 5,000 Turks (some of which were Ottoman Marines) and around 200 Austro-Hungarian marines from the Imperial squadron serving alongside the Royal Navy. There was an RA field battery of 9 field pieces and 3 howitzers and Royal Engineers in support.

Probably a bit before your period of interest but itís an interesting campaign, the British Austrians and latterly the French were intervening against Ibrahim Pasha, the ruler of Egypt who had revolted against his Ottoman overlords and had captured most of the Levant. Itís got everything, opposed landings, storming of castles, street fighting in Sidon, skirmishes and pitched battles on Lebanese hillsides and a host of exotic friends and foes including Albanian irregulars, Bashi Bazouks and Lebanese mountain tribes armed by the British. Best of all the Perry Royal Marines from their Carlist War range are perfect. Much of the rest can be found in various ranges from Foundry to Brigade Games.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: Jack Jones on December 05, 2020, 06:02:02 PM
Wow, well there you go, it does look good doesn't it? I may just have to paint them that way because to me the dash of color, with their white gear, sets them apart a little bit.

I shall check my references for eye witness accounts of the RMLI uniform. I fancy the red stripe too.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on December 05, 2020, 09:22:58 PM
Thank you Jones! Iíve been trying to dive into some of my osprey books, as well as a book I purchased quite a while ago from wargames foundry. No mention of a stripe in any of those. Iím interested to see what you find out.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: JBaumal on December 07, 2020, 02:44:28 AM
Carlos, that sounds like an amazing campaign. Can you recommend any books?
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: JBaumal on December 07, 2020, 02:47:46 AM
Bc99, Iíve painted my Sudan Naval Brigade in mostly the dark blue winter uniform and have primed my Sudan RMLI in dark grey in preparation for the serge grey uniform Iíve seen mentioned in many references.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: bc99 on December 07, 2020, 04:50:18 AM
Thatís what Iím going for. Any idea what color the martini slings were ? Iíve started my first Naval Brigade and want to set him as the standard for my whole unit.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines
Post by: carlos marighela on December 07, 2020, 10:17:31 AM
Carlos, that sounds like an amazing campaign. Can you recommend any books?

Here are a couple of pieces to get the juices flowing.

https://www.pdavis.nl/Syria.htm

https://rmhistorical.com/files/content/History%20of%20RM%20-%20Blumberg%20%26%20AJD.pdf

There are a number of scholarly tomes on the Oriental Crisis as well as a fairly recent work on Mehmet Ali but for the naval and military side of things itís hard to go past Sir Charlesí Napierís own account. Napier led the British forces ashore and also at sea (largely by dint of personality and ignoring his superiors). Heí was a naval officer cut from the same cloth as Nelson, Cochrane and perhaps Hornblower. Saw service in the Napoleonic Wars as well as the Carlist War.

Fortunately his account is freely available courtesy of Project Gutenberg.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/53498/53498-h/53498-h.htm

If you are inspired enough to want to game it, Brigade Games Napoleonic Ottomans range has Albanians and regular infantry that look suitable for the Egyptians (there was a change of uniform taking place in the Ottoman Empire at the time) and Foundryís Crimean War Turks in shell jackets would do for the Ottomans. Perfect fodder for Sharpe Practice.





Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted 12/7/2020)
Post by: bc99 on December 07, 2020, 04:57:40 PM
Thank you and very interesting.

Edit: I'm adding these photos of the first member of the Naval Brigade I've painted.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-071220223346.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-071220223402.jpeg)

I plan on finishing a full company of the Naval Brigade with these hats, and add at least a half company and possibly full company of Sennett hat Naval Brigade.

Of course I'll have enough officers and petty officers to lead them and have ordered a Gatling gun and Gardner gun to support the sailors.

 
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted, pg. 2)
Post by: Jack Jones on December 09, 2020, 09:21:53 AM
Cool!

Hereís a distillation of information about bayonets I gleaned from a Facebook group:

https://sandsofsoudan.blogspot.com/2020/10/martini-henry-rifle-bayonets-slings-and.html (https://sandsofsoudan.blogspot.com/2020/10/martini-henry-rifle-bayonets-slings-and.html)

As youíll see, the hand guard on the cutlass bayonet wasnít brass.

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted, pg. 2)
Post by: bc99 on December 09, 2020, 05:04:35 PM
Wow great to know. Thank you for that information. Iíve been referring to your blog on and off. Iíve noticed that the Empress minis do not seem to have the correct ďkitĒ. Not a really big issue but still interesting. They seem to be missing the water bottle and bag.

I just finished the basecoat on my second two miniatures and will make sure they have the correct cutlass. I guess our first rating lucked out and got the fancy version. Iíve also seen that the tie is actually black, and there should be some sort of name plate of the ship on their caps.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted, pg. 2)
Post by: Plynkes on December 09, 2020, 07:26:04 PM
Iíve noticed that the Empress minis do not seem to have the correct ďkitĒ. Not a really big issue but still interesting. They seem to be missing the water bottle and bag.


The lack of water bottle and bag matches contemporary illustrations of what they purport to be, which is to say Naval Brigade in the Zulu War.  So they are fine for what they are being sold as (just thought I'd point that out for Empress' sake if for no other reason).

Looking forward to seeing more of your Jack Tars and Marines. Keep posting! :)

Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted, pg. 2)
Post by: bc99 on December 09, 2020, 07:48:39 PM
Thanks Plynkes, I figured that was probably why they were modeled that way. I do like a little variation, and think in the dust and smoke of the battle nobody will question why they left their most precious resource (water) in camp.

I'm also building these not so much to model the Sudan Campaign, but to create a body of infantry to play Colonial Skirmish games. I'm trying to complete a unit before purchasing, moving on to the next, but that's hard for me. I'm a bit of a hobby squirrel, running to and fro.

Take care, more pictures once I've got them painted up.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted, pg. 2)
Post by: Jack Jones on December 09, 2020, 08:01:16 PM
Wow great to know. Thank you for that information. Iíve been referring to your blog on and off.

Youíre welcome. I now have a lot of figures primed, including a company of Naval Brigade and a company of RMLI. I hope to begin painting this side of Christmas.

Ö there should be some sort of name plate of the ship on their caps.

Yes, this would be the name of the vessel the sailors served in.

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted, pg. 2)
Post by: bc99 on December 11, 2020, 09:43:22 PM
This will be the complete first company for the naval brigade. Iím using a petty officer from the Perry range, and a lieutenant from the empress miniature range. I decided to include two Copplestone sailors because thatís what I needed to complete the full 20 man company. They actually scale quite well, compared to the Sennet hat giants.

Iíve finished one sailor as already posted. I went back and colored the sabre bayonet the correct color. Also added a ship name tag to his hat and got the sling colored correctly.

Iíve got two more in the works.



(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-111220213825.jpeg)

Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (first Rating painted, pg. 2)
Post by: bc99 on December 12, 2020, 08:32:16 PM
Here are the three completed ratings so far. I only have one more-based, and primered, so Iíll finish him up before getting everybody else ready to go.

I opted to go simple and only have a single white line on the back blue portion of the uniform. Actually what is that thing called? The light blue reverse bib? Anyway a single white line as opposed to the two itís just easier for me to paint.

Also, Empress miniature in the middle, flanked by two Perry miniatures. They fit quite well together.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-121220202706-49666724.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-121220202707-496671769.jpeg)
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: Plynkes on December 14, 2020, 11:26:17 AM
Oh Smashing! Coming along nicely.


I don't blame you at all for painting a single stripe. It's hard enough to get one to look neat, let alone more. But unfortunately it is worse than you think: In the British Royal Navy it is three stripes. I have heard some stuff about it commerorating three of Nelson's victories, but I believe that is, as Cousin Jonathan would put it: a load of hogwash. :)


Viewed from any kind of distance the three stripes look like one thick one anyway, so I really wouldn't worry about it.




Edit: Oh, and I believe the thing in question is just called a collar. I've seen it referred to as a flap collar and a square-back collar, but if it has an official term I don't know what it is.




Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: Jack Jones on December 14, 2020, 02:49:48 PM
I am nearing the need to consider how to paint the collars Ö three stripes or one 🤔
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: bc99 on December 15, 2020, 02:27:02 AM
I canít wait to see your naval brigade JJ.

And weíll call it a square-back collar, sounds rather naval Plynkes.

Hereís the fourth painted Rating. They took this lad straight out of the boiler room, gave him a rifle and set him on the shore party! Heís a big one!

I finished basing up another 14 or so, after that I will get them primered. Then to finish the last two but I need more bases.

Iíve got one sailor aiming his rifle, I believe I will try and take a crewmember from an empress miniatures Gatling gun and convert him a bit to another sailor advancing.

Edit: the proper name may be flap collar. There must be some Royal Navy vets here that can put us straight.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-151220021653-496931548.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-151220022048.jpeg)
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: Plynkes on December 15, 2020, 09:18:02 AM
I'll throw 'square rig collar', and the more straightforward and obvious 'naval collar' and 'sailor's collar' into the pot, as I've heard and seen all of those too. :)



Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: guitarheroandy on December 15, 2020, 10:13:15 AM
I absolutely concur with the point that painting 3 stripes on the collar would be pointless - it's hard enough painting one neatly, which you have managed very well, I must say.
I think they look absolutely excellent! Keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: Jack Jones on December 15, 2020, 02:58:07 PM
I'll throw 'square rig collar', and the more straightforward and obvious 'naval collar' and 'sailor's collar' into the pot, as I've heard and seen all of those too. :)

My understanding is that Ďrigí was the uniform of the day, and seems to have included equipment. For example, hereís a painting of a rating described as Ďlanding rigí (1883)

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/13790.html (https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/13790.html)

Square rig seems to mean ratings dressed as seamen, rather than dressed as stewards or cooks, say.

not to be confused with a configuration of sails and rigging.

Hereís an official piece on navy uniforms, where the collar is called the ĎSailorís collarí

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20101208211750/http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/training-and-people/rn-life/uniforms-and-badges-of-rank/the-history-of-rating-uniforms/index.htm (https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20101208211750/http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/training-and-people/rn-life/uniforms-and-badges-of-rank/the-history-of-rating-uniforms/index.htm)

None of which is entirely conclusive in nomenclature terms Ö

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: bc99 on January 11, 2021, 07:20:20 AM
Three more ratings painted for a total of 7, photos taken in my airbrush/priming/dull coat box. I actually realized I need to add the ship name so Iíll do that before dull coating.

Iíve already picked out the next three and will include a petty officer. That will be half a platoon (per TSATF).

Take care all, the holidays were busy, Iíll post more soon.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-110121070850.jpeg)
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: bc99 on January 12, 2021, 05:32:56 AM
Closer shot of one of the newer ratings. I love these miniatures from Empress. They have a lot of personality.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/49/2499-120121053119.jpeg)
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: Rick W. on January 12, 2021, 06:27:43 AM
Great work! I have always had an interest in marines, naval infantry and landing parties. Your painting brings those figures to life.
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: bc99 on January 12, 2021, 06:12:19 PM
Thank you Rick.

I'll most likely change this topic to my "colonial adventures" log. Until then, I'll definitely be concentrating on my naval brigade and RMLI.

I recently made a large Perry miniature and Empress purchase. After the sailors in round hats I'll be painting up 20 sailors in sennet hats (from Empress). I'll include a couple of naval machine guns, as well as attached officers, etc.

My hope is to have 40 naval brigade, 20 RMLI, guns, and officers for a game set in the Red Sea Littoral. They will of course be facing brave tribesman from the area.

Take care!
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 3)
Post by: bc99 on January 16, 2021, 09:58:18 AM
Iíve painted every day this week; just a little here, a little there.

Iíve got two more ratings and a petty officer. Thatís ten Naval Brigade, weíre well on our way now.

For my petty officer, Iím fairly certain he would wear red stripes on his left arm, how many? Anything else? Heís the Sergeant of the unit if you will, per TSATF rules.

Heís ready to sound Stand To with his boatswains whistle, if they did such a thing!

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-160121095052.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-160121095152.jpeg)
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 4)
Post by: Jack Jones on January 16, 2021, 03:47:56 PM
Lovely!

My first company is primed Ö just need to assemble the Gatling guns and the limber Ö then I can get stuck into the painting.

Been distracted by a handful of scenic items and modelling a Mahdist battery of captured mountain guns.

I need to get back into the habit of doing a little each day.

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: British Naval Brigade vs.Royal Marines (more Ratings, pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on January 16, 2021, 08:52:58 PM
Thanks Jones, Iíve been following your blog as well and am impressed youíve got some nice buildings going and have assembled a start of the Mahdist forces.

Today I decided to work on a little bit of area terrain. I was quite surprised with how the Sudan looked, especially how inhospitable. Obviously I knew it was an arid desert, but still it was very stark.

Now this isnít to say uninhabitable, people have been living in extreme climates forever obviously. I mean a European army most likely using uncomfortable uniforms, heavy equipment, and facing extremes of heat and lack of water operating in such terrain.

After starting this project Iíve picked up quite a few books on the campaign, including Go Strong into the Desert, which has some modern photographs of the battlefields. I also watched a documentary on a gentleman who walked the length of the Nile, spending some time in the area of some of our battles. I will base my area terrain on some of those photos, as well as internet searches for the Sudan.

I live in California and have spent much time in our deserts, including near Death Valley. The Sudan as seen in some of those photographs appears very similar. Iím impressed by the resiliency and strength of the armies that fought in that land so long ago.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-160121204057.jpeg)

More to follow, Iím quite a novice at terrain building. Here are some pieces of MDF I was planning to use for fantasy terrain quite a while ago. A tower was going to be placed on the black base, and I repurposed some other MDF for use in this project.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (new thread title 1/16/21; more Ratings, pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on January 24, 2021, 07:16:39 PM
Some terrain.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-240121191215.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-240121191238.jpeg)

For the area terrain, I created matchstick armatures for the lichen ďmimosaĒ bushes. As the lichen will undoubtedly be destroyed during gaming I thought it would be better to be able to replace it than try to keep it permanently affixed.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (some terrain, pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on January 26, 2021, 07:56:26 AM
More Ratings. Iíve got two more primed Iíll paint, and the I need to prime up another batch. Iíve been tryin to paint daily, so taking little bits by bits to slowly build up the collection.

 (http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-260121075115.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-260121075137.jpeg)

Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (1/25/21 More Ratings pg. 4)
Post by: JBaumal on January 27, 2021, 03:32:32 PM
Naval ratings are looking great! Good job on the terrain as well. Iíve been gaming the Sudan since the mid 80ís and it never gets boring. Will you be making or buying gunboats & dhows? Your Naval landing troops would appreciate the support  ;)
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (1/25/21 More Ratings pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on January 27, 2021, 05:19:45 PM
Thank you!

I've always been interested in the Little Wars of the Victorian Age, and the Sudan has definitely caught my attention.

I am going to be picking up some gunships down the line, for use in the Sudan and elsewhere. I'd like to keep plodding along with the infantry to start, and then move on to the likes of guns, cavalry, and finally ships and other goodies.

Do you have any manufacturer recommendations?

Take care, I've got another 2 ratings on the painting line, and need to finish undercoating more minis for my next go around.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (1/25/21 More Ratings pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on February 01, 2021, 07:24:08 AM
Ok a couple more ratings finished. Now I really have to do some priming. These are Empress and Perry miniatures.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-010221071633.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-010221071603.jpeg)

I also figured a good objective in the harsh climate of the Sudan would be a well of some sort. Iíve finished up this piece of terrain for just that reason.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-010221072300.jpeg)

Now as soon as I can get some more minis primed up Iíll be on the back stretch for finishing up my first colonial squad. Iím very excited this has been years in the making.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (1/31/21 more Ratings and terrain pg. 4)
Post by: Plynkes on February 01, 2021, 09:54:01 AM
Lovely! Good to see this is moving forward. Look forward to even more.

Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (1/31/21 more Ratings and terrain pg. 4)
Post by: Rick W. on February 01, 2021, 11:14:03 AM
Nice touch with the hoof prints.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (1/31/21 more Ratings and terrain pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on February 01, 2021, 05:03:24 PM
Nice touch with the hoof prints.

Thank you, this was actually a pre-cast resin piece that I purchased from Miniature Market for about $4.50. I picked up several of the pieces as they're nice little vignettes, and the detail is fine. I used craft paint, some home made wash, and placed some tufts/scatter on the base to liven it up a little. I painted the water with metallic blue and green paint, and then added successive layers of water effects.

Thanks Plynkes, this project has become quite the rabbit hole with the books and reading that comes with diving into a new area of interest.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (1/31/21 more Ratings and terrain pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on February 06, 2021, 08:36:07 PM
Some more terrain. I wanted to create some raised ground, so I made a hill and two outcrops. As I plan to game operations near Suakin I wanted to represent some of the hilly range inland from the coast.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-060221202111.jpeg)

And now, a step back in time; Sudan, the mid 1880s, south of Suakin, the Red Sea Littoral.

Newly landed sailors scout some rocky outcrops outside their main camp, as initial elements of the landing party observed movement in the area.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-060221202141.jpeg)

Emerging from some broken ground the ratings fix bayonets.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-060221202219.jpeg)

Rating Jones moves forward, leading the scouting party.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-060221202248.jpeg)

Until next week, Iíve finally got the last few minis for this unit primered. I canít wait to see what they will look like once complete and all grouped together.




Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (2/6/21, new terrain pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on February 21, 2021, 08:50:46 AM
Three more ratings. Iím getting close to one full squad for TSATF.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-210221084704.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-220221011707.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-210221084757.jpeg)
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (2/21/21; 3 new ratings pg. 4)
Post by: bc99 on March 08, 2021, 08:04:34 AM
Well Iíve finally completed my first unit! Here are the final two for the unit; a rating and officer, as well as an extra petty officer. This makes 21 figures for the Naval Landing Party.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-080321075938.jpeg)

Iíve got a sennet hat rating figure primed and ready to go. I believe I will paint him with white trousers, and brown leather accoutrements.

Iíve also got a couple more officers primed and ready. After that Iíll have to prep the rest of my sennet hat ratings and then Iíll be on the way for my second unit!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/8/21; new figures pg. 5)
Post by: Rick W. on March 08, 2021, 08:18:32 AM
Great work mate!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/8/21; new figures pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 09, 2021, 03:58:37 AM
Thank you Rick!

Now for a photo of the completed unit.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-090321033806-506391130.jpeg)

The landing party on maneuvers after putting ashore a day earlier. Lieutenant Ward runs his command through brief fire exercises before turning the unit over to his petty officers. The day will be spent acclimating, practicing bayonet drill, and formations/maneuvers.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-090321033806-506411592.jpeg)

On the boatswains call.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-090321033806-50642890.jpeg)

Lieutenant Ward behind the line.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-090321033806-506431247.jpeg)

Passing some cartridges, or maybe a shot!

On to the next unit!


Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; completed unit pg. 5)
Post by: Rick W. on March 09, 2021, 07:35:02 AM
Really sharp, as a unit they shine even more.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; completed unit pg. 5)
Post by: Mad Guru on March 11, 2021, 05:48:37 AM
Wow, they do look quite awesome!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; completed unit pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 11, 2021, 08:09:26 PM
Thank you so much for your nice comments. It does keep the motivation going!

I have a test rating on the table to try out the sennet hat miniatures. I hope to get some feedback re: the uniform. It will differ a little bit from the Perry guide in so much as I plan on doing the cartridge belts in leather.

It will give me a chance to paint leather and try some different techniques (including contrast paint, which didn't really give me the result I wanted on other models) and some other colors. Also it jives a little bit with some of the contemporary paintings. Finally, it sets off the units just a little bit.

My final part of the project, once the Naval Brigade and Naval Brigade gun sections are complete, will be the RMLI.

Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; completed unit pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 12, 2021, 11:53:15 PM
A quick paint up of one of the ratings from the second landing party. These figures are from empress miniatures Zulu war range and as such I believe their kit is a bit off. I still decided to paint their kit as leather, and donít really mind. These brave ratings will see service in other games and other theaters.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-120321234808.jpeg)

And another view of some of his kit.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-120321234839.jpeg)

I need to do a lot of basing now and priming to get the next unit ready to go.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; new rating painted pg. 5)
Post by: Jack Jones on March 13, 2021, 01:39:23 PM
Nice work!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; new rating painted pg. 5)
Post by: MaleGriffin on March 13, 2021, 05:27:42 PM
Brilliant brushwork!

I hope mine come out half as well!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; new rating painted pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 16, 2021, 05:35:36 PM
Thank you for the kind words gentlemen.

This past weekend was lost with familial and mundane duties. I hope to have a batch of ratings and command primed and ready to go for this next week so I can get a good start. I feel motivated, but actual time in the painting chair has declined this past week.

As a side note, white is very difficult to paint. I painted the trousers on the rating multiple times, trying different approaches; from blue/grey washes, to a brown wash, to direct placement of deeper greys. I finally just satisfied on a bright, light colored grey with white highlights. It doesn't show that much on the photos, so maybe I shouldn't worry too much. Either way at the end of this next batch I'll definitely have learned my way to paint whites.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; new rating painted pg. 5)
Post by: Plynkes on March 16, 2021, 06:16:30 PM
I think you are on the right track there. I've never found washes to be much help with white. I have always got my best results from a 'less is more' approach.  I am the kind of nitwit that occasionally really goes to town with multiple layers. Sometimes my African flesh will be five or six layers plus a wash/glaze (whatever the hell you call it, I am by no means a technician, if I was in charge of the Workbench board it would fall apart in days). If I take that approach with white all I get is a mess.  A light grey base, medium grey in the shadows and white highlights is what works best for me.

 And in my old age I am getting a bit lazy. Young Plynkes would mix those himself. Current year Plynkes uses the Foundry triads. Either the Austrian White one, or the Arctic Grey one, depending on how briliant he wants the white to be.

Keep 'em coming! :)

Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; new rating painted pg. 5)
Post by: Malamute on March 17, 2021, 11:29:38 AM


  Current year Plynkes uses the Foundry triads. Either the Austrian White one, or the Arctic Grey one, depending on how briliant he wants the white to be.

Keep 'em coming! :)

I'm with you on these two, the Austrian white seems to be my go too.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; new rating painted pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 20, 2021, 03:56:43 PM
Great, Iíll check out those color triads or sets.

Iíve got a handful of minis on the prep station, my least favorite part of the process. I hope to have some progress to report in the coming week.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/9/21; new rating painted pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 28, 2021, 07:20:30 AM
A new, lieutenant to lead the second unit of ratings. Iíve gone with white pants as this is the uniform the second unit will have.

I was planning to convert this miniature, I was going to takeoff the hand holding the hat, file down the top of his head and add a sun helmet, replace the other hand with a pistol. The more I looked at the miniature, the more I liked it. I really enjoy his dashing hair cut, and believe the pose can be either resignation, fatigue, or readying for the final stand; all possible while fighting in the Sudan!

I ended up enjoying the pose as it was.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/2499-280321071557.jpeg)
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/28/21; new officer painted pg. 5)
Post by: Helen on March 28, 2021, 08:03:17 AM
Nice work on your Royal Navy. Lovely mix of miniatures from various companies.

Cheers,
Helen
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/28/21; new officer painted pg. 5)
Post by: Rick W. on March 28, 2021, 08:35:18 AM
Looking good mate! I agree, I like the pose on the officer.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/28/21; new officer painted pg. 5)
Post by: Plynkes on March 28, 2021, 11:16:37 AM
I think you made the right choice. You did a good job on his hair, it's rather striking. Would have been a pity to cover it up.


Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/28/21; new officer painted pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 29, 2021, 04:27:58 PM
Thank you all for the kind words, it does keep the motivation up that's for sure, especially facing the mountain of lead and plastic accumulated in my garage work area. Hopefully I'll get some more ratings done this week.

Question for the group:

What size bases have you all been using to mount guns (artillery, MG, Gatling, etc)?

I plan to game mostly TSATF or other similar skirmish games. Obviously sabot bases for my infantry are a possibility if I plan to game Black Powder. I haven't decided on basing the guns yet though.

Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/28/21; new officer painted pg. 5)
Post by: JBaumal on March 29, 2021, 05:08:56 PM
bc99, Iím an avid player of TSATF and I donít base my cannons. I have based a few MGís though. If you are going to base your guns may I suggest using the same height / thickness of base for uniform appearance. The length and width would be dependent upon the size of the gun. I like the versatility of not having the gun on a base, but to each their own. Iím enjoying reading about your project. Keep posting.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/28/21; new officer painted pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on March 29, 2021, 08:33:50 PM
bc99, Iím an avid player of TSATF and I donít base my cannons. I have based a few MGís though. If you are going to base your guns may I suggest using the same height / thickness of base for uniform appearance. The length and width would be dependent upon the size of the gun. I like the versatility of not having the gun on a base, but to each their own. Iím enjoying reading about your project. Keep posting.

I never even considered that. Great idea as it would allow easier placement on terrain etc. That may be the solution I use!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (3/28/21; new officer painted pg. 5)
Post by: bc99 on April 11, 2021, 07:16:59 AM
Just a little update. Three more ratings. Iím going to up my assembly line to 5 minis at a time from 3 to try and get a move on.

I have been busy (like everybody), and I was absent a week off with the family but I still feel motivated which is a good thing. Coming to the lead adventure forum really does help get the juices flowing.


 (http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/51/2499-110421071304.jpeg)
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/11/21; more ratings pg. 6)
Post by: Rick W. on April 11, 2021, 07:20:17 AM
Step by step the Empire grows. Great work mate!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/11/21; more ratings pg. 6)
Post by: bc99 on April 13, 2021, 07:32:18 AM
Thank you Rick.

I took a break from painting the ratings to finish up a captain that will lead the two naval units.

I love this miniature and canít help but admire his fullest of full sets beard. I of course decided on making him a ginger.

Back to the ratings after the captain.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/51/2499-130421072145.jpeg)

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/51/2499-130421072249.jpeg)

Hrmm, Iím going to touch up his buttons before the varnish. Cheers!



Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Helen on April 13, 2021, 07:52:12 AM
Nice work on the RN Officer.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Rick W. on April 13, 2021, 07:55:51 AM
Yeah he looks great. Epic beard!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: bc99 on April 13, 2021, 04:41:00 PM
Thank you both, the funny thing is, I just realized I forgot to paint his gaiters! It looks rather good in black, I may leave it like that, but I believe they wore khaki. We'll see, we'll see.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Jack Jones on April 13, 2021, 07:25:15 PM
Great work! I hope mine come out half as good as yours.

Which manufacturer makes the RN officer?

I think ratingís gaiters were black.

I gave one of the Perry Miniaturesí officers a beard (ProCreate) and Christened him Captain Arthur Wilson, here with Colonel Frederick Burnaby, prior to basing:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zLVEdEEuGCY/YGDcx741ZaI/AAAAAAAAAlI/8kKb9qaUqT80dAYNEXcvIsvzPIxa9PB8ACPcBGAYYCw/s800/Burnaby%2Band%2BWilson.jpg)


https://sandsofsoudan.blogspot.com/search/label/Captain%20Arthur%20Wilson%20VC (https://sandsofsoudan.blogspot.com/search/label/Captain%20Arthur%20Wilson%20VC)

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: bc99 on April 13, 2021, 07:39:15 PM
Great stuff!

The officer was from the wonderful empress miniatures line for the Zulu War.

For my round hat sailors I used a combination of Perry and Empress, with two Copplestone thrown in to round out the unit.

For my sennet hat sailors, I'm using almost all Empress with a few Perry (from the little wars range) sennet hat NCOs and officers thrown in the mix.

Although I'm trying to be reasonably accurate with uniforms my plan is to use these miniatures for other conflicts.
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Plynkes on April 13, 2021, 08:02:38 PM
As far as I know, the sailors' gaiters were tan (in Zululand and Sudan). RMLI in the Zulu War had black ones, though! (can't remember if they actually wore them in the Sudan, lots of units didn't)  :)


More great stuff there, BC! Nice to see old Fred too, Jack. I really must paint that figure one day.






Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Jack Jones on April 13, 2021, 10:03:57 PM
Yes Ö Snook has them in buff-brown canvas, but Ospreyís Roffe has them in black. I have read elsewhere that ratingís were black Ö need to try and remember where.

Snook has read so many primary sources that he is likely correct Ö and itís my aesthetic preference.

Perryís Burnaby is a fine figure, and worth paying the extra for the Black Powder supplement, which, as well as being pure eye candy, is full of useful information Ö so I recommend it even if you donít play Warlordís rule set.

https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/blood-on-the-nile/ (https://www.perry-miniatures.com/product/blood-on-the-nile/)

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Plynkes on April 13, 2021, 10:41:48 PM
Thanks, Jack. I agree, I have never played Black Powder, and probably never will, but I bought that book for the eye-candy pics and the figure! Just never got around to painting it.





Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Plynkes on April 15, 2021, 08:05:52 AM
I was looking at a wonderful old print of the battle of Tamai earlier, which shows Highlanders and sailors from the Naval Brigade in close combat with Beja around a Gatling gun. One of the tars struck me as great fodder for a conversion if you felt like doing it. He appears to be a petty officer (roughly equivalent to a sergeant I think, but his rank insignia is quite indistinct, so he may something else - but he is almost certainly what in the Army you would call an NCO) and Instead of wearing his regulation headgear he has a very piratical bandana on his head, and he has a Navy cutlass bayonet between his teeth! He may as well have a speech bubble saying "Arrrrrr! I'm a pirate!" :)


I imagine there is quite a bit of artistic licence going on there, but it might be fun to depict such a fellow. Maybe not with the blade between his teeth, that might be tricky, but brandishing it ready to go and in his buccaneer fancy dress hat might be cool. Just a thought.


Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: bc99 on April 15, 2021, 03:52:39 PM
Plynkes I have seen that picture and that sailor stuck out to me! I will have some extra crew as I plan on using the Perry miniature Gatling gun (it's bigger than the empress). I also bought the empress gun and have the extra crew from that set.

I don't know about my ability to model sword in teeth (seems like a nautical thing I've seen other paintings/drawings depicting the pirates that way) but someone ready to defend the guns as opposed to fire the guns would be great.

Cheers for your continued interest!
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Jack Jones on April 17, 2021, 11:29:29 AM
Do you have link for an online source for the print?

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Plynkes on April 17, 2021, 11:47:06 AM
Not a very good one:

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-war-in-the-soudan-1883-1885-gallant-recapture-of-the-news-photo/1166203820?adppopup=true (https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/the-war-in-the-soudan-1883-1885-gallant-recapture-of-the-news-photo/1166203820?adppopup=true)

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/the-war-in-the-soudan-18831885-gallant-recapture-of-the-guns-by-the-picture-id1166203820?s=2048x2048)
(You can just make out our pirate friend on the right under the Getty Images watermark thing.)

There is a nice big version in the Mike Snook book, and I seem to remember it being in one of the old Ospreys too. I think maybe the Khartoum campaign one.

Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: Jack Jones on April 17, 2021, 02:00:08 PM
Ah! Yes! I know it, and youíre right about the reproductions Ö though Snookís is cropped.

I think the fellow on the left with the ammo mule may be Private Thomas Edwards, who won a VC for defending the Gatling guns Ö I plan to model him in a little vignette.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edwards_(VC) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Edwards_(VC))

Cheers
JJ
Title: Re: Operations in the Sudan (4/13/21; Captain pg. 6)
Post by: bc99 on April 17, 2021, 07:37:36 PM
Hereís the picture detail taken from a snapshot of the Snook book.

(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/51/2499-170421193550.jpeg)