Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: Edleland on December 10, 2020, 03:12:46 PM
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Folks,
I was doing a bit a research in an attempt to find something that could be turned into a campaign and found this video.
https://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/4095
Now this is a perfect find for me as I was looking at the actions around Shwedaung on 29/30 March which the Gloucesters took part in, but I have questions...
What is that artillery piece they have? Looks like an Italian 6.5cm mountain gun? I have a source that says the unit had 4 Breda guns in this period?
How did they get said guns?
Are those white scout cars that the mortars are shooting from??? Everything I have says they were everywhere BUT Burma...
Are the Daimler Dingos (I think?) part of the Gloucester’s or maybe part of 7 Armoured Brigade?
So 1 Gloucester was one of two regular British infantry battalions based in Burma before the war started and was the Rangoon garrison. Source says they “acquired enough vehicles in Rangoon” to be Motorized and were made the Div Recon of 17 Indian Division. At this same time lots of lend lease items intended for China were sitting in warehouses in Rangoon and were ordered to be destroyed as Rangoon was evacuated. I think 1 Gloucester’s went shopping for perfectly good things that were going to be destroyed anyways....
Anyway, does anyone know where I can find out more about this unit with all of their extra toys?
Thanks!
Ed
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Hi Ed,
I can't watch the video from the work computer, but there is a regimental history doing the rounds, though I've never got my hands on a copy. Those who have, however, assure me that they did indeed get their hands on M3 Scout Cars fitted as 81mm mortar carriers that were built for the Chinese and were in Rangoon awaiting delivery. They also kitted themselves out with a unit of India Pattern Armoured Cars (memory's hazy, but these were either Lanchesters or Crossleys fitted with Chevrolet chassis). And yes, the 7th Armoured Brigade had Dingos in the Recce Troops, so they seem a likely candidate. There were also some India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carriers knocking about. 47mm Bredas captured from the Italians certainly ended up in Burma and Singapore, but I don't know about artillery, sorry.
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Right, I've managed by some miracle to find enough bandwidth to watch it on my phone and there is some great stuff there! :)
Yes, those Dingos belong to 2 RTR, 7th Armoured Brigade. Interesting shot of an India Pattern Carrier in Caunter camouflage being used as a road-block! I wonder who that belonged to... I know that the 7/10th Baluchs had their Carrier Platoon equipped with wheeled carriers, but then had it detached as a divisional recce element and it was later caught up in a Japanese ambush, along with Universal Carriers belonging to the Glosters.
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Yes, that gun's definitely an Italian 65mm. :)
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Thanks! I got a response to this on another thread that MIGHT help explain the gun
There is a reference at http://www.rothwell.force9.co.uk/burmaw ... rigade.htm to:
“In December 1941, ‘B’ Troop of the 5th Field Battery [Rangoon Field Brigade] was formed without guns but on 27th December sent a detachment of one British Officer and 20 British Other Ranks with six Austrian 65mm mountain guns to Mergui for beach defence and one N.C.O. and six other ranks with two 65mm guns to Tavoy, also for beach defence. The balance of "B" Troop of the 5th Field Battery was given eight 77mm Italian field guns for use in the anti-tank role. These [presumably the 77mm guns] were handed over to an Indian antitank battery [p96 of Farndale’s The Far East Theatre indicates that 5th Indian AT battery had 8 x 77mm Skoda about this time and p341 theorises that 77mm Skoda pieces could be M.17 or M.28] on 17th February 1942.”
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Any ideas on what the colors would have been for the camo scheme here?
(https://images2.imagebam.com/de/12/a3/fa3bc71362705379.jpg)
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At a guess, a green base (probably US Olive Drab, given the vehicles origins) with swathes of a sandy colour and brown over the top. It isn't a standard scheme, so probably locally applied with whatever paints were in the stores.
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At a guess, a green base (probably US Olive Drab, given the vehicles origins) with swathes of a sandy colour and brown over the top. It isn't a standard scheme, so probably locally applied with whatever paints were in the stores.
Yeah, what he said, though the application is so rough that it might simply have been mud.
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And here’s an interview with a junior officer in 1 Gloucester’s at the time. Part 2 mentions the white scout cars for the mortars.
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/80018347
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Great info guys , had no idea about the mortar carriers, will adding those to my support lists :-*
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A lot of the Indian army were supplied Italian captured equipment, also the Burmese army was armed with Italian equipment and also manufactured the Italian rifles and the rounds.
Not sure which regiment the chaos in the video belong to though.
Cheers
Matt