Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Age of Myths, Gods and Empires => Topic started by: SJWi on December 16, 2020, 06:49:41 PM
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Good evening. Some of my little gaming group are interested in buying the new SAGA "Hannibal" supplement, but currently only have the old V1 ruleset. Does anyone know if you can use the new supplements with the V1 rules? Also, can you use the "old" supplements with the new rules? I'm not too fussed about paying £10 for the V2 rules but am slightly miffed at having bought all the old supplements and finding them potentially redundant to be replaced by books costing £30 each..
I fear the worst but thought I would ask the question.
Thanks.
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There are some minor quirks that can be easily navigated, but overall the boards cross over well. At least as far as the two non magic ages from 2.0.
I've used new Anglo Dane with old Viking, or new Norman with old Anglo-Dane with no serious issues. Some of the wording for when or how things trigger isn't exact between the two editions, but going with intent it easily translates.
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It should be fine to use V1 rules and V2 boards/lists, the game has changed but the most important mechanisms stay the same.
I would just take the following new rules into consideration:
* the warlord can no loniger charge with another unit and only generates one saga die
* warrior units generate saga dice only if they are at least 4 figures strong (or the equivalent to 4 figures)
* Levy units can generate saga dice only if they are at least 6 figures strong (or the equivalent to 6 figures)
there are other major changes, but you can play and still have fun without them.
but in order to play the game with the lists and boards form the age of Hannibal you should at least take these rules into account
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The other big change is that you can leave dice on the board and still roll your full number - so if you were generating 5 Saga dice but had 3 on the board, you would leave them there and roll 5 dice for a total of 8. Good change, as it allows one last big effort even from beaten up warbands.
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It should be fine to use V1 rules and V2 boards/lists, the game has changed but the most important mechanisms stay the same.
I would just take the following new rules into consideration:
* the warlord can no loniger charge with another unit and only generates one saga die
* warrior units generate saga dice only if they are at least 4 figures strong (or the equivalent to 4 figures)
* Levy units can generate saga dice only if they are at least 6 figures strong (or the equivalent to 6 figures)
there are other major changes, but you can play and still have fun without them.
but in order to play the game with the lists and boards form the age of Hannibal you should at least take these rules into account
2 and 3 can have a definite impact on things, but we do not follow 1. We stick with the old model, as a warlord charging in solo is silly, as is the fact they only generate 1 dice in v2.
Again, I'd ignore most of the v2 rules if you want to stay with v1. We've tried using some of the v2 stuff (cleaned up fatigue and the saga dice concepts above), and found that the more linear motion and reduced warlord functionality were not good gameplay changes. Levy being more useful was a nice change as they were dubious for all but a few factions in v1, and 3 fatigue for all units was a cleaner change, but otherwise Crescent and Cross has better overall rules imho.
Either way, you don't need to use v2 rules to mix battleboards. Just note the timing of some of the abilities may need a small adjustment depending on the rules version you are using (although frankly you may not notice it).
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Why bother? Second edition is pretty cheap to buy, and is significantly tidier than first edition.
If you are going to go to the expense of buying a new supplement, plus probably dice, get 2nd edition
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Craig, to be honest I had come to that conclusion. My main query now is whether V1 battleboards etc are compatible with V2 rules. With the scenario books costing £30 each that's a fairly pricey switch over.
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The v2 boards differ quite a bit (and are also better balanced than the v1 boards, particularly for Age of Crusades), but I'm sure you could use the v1 boards for v2 factions.
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The v2 boards differ quite a bit (and are also better balanced than the v1 boards, particularly for Age of Crusades), but I'm sure you could use the v1 boards for v2 factions.
I dislike the Teutonic Board in V2. It is really not thematic at all. The Teutonic Order was always critically short on man power, so having a board which has a lot of abilities which sacrifice their own men is not very fitting.
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I dislike the Teutonic Board in V2. It is really not thematic at all. The Teutonic Order was always critically short on man power, so having a board which has a lot of abilities which sacrifice their own men is not very fitting.
You can always use the Crusader board in its Baltic incarnation (no pilgrims)
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Why bother? Second edition is pretty cheap to buy, and is significantly tidier than first edition.
Who needs tidy rules if they are bad rules?
Much rather prefer good rules that aren't as tidy.
The 2nd edition has absolutely no flavour. As already pointed out by others the changes to the Warlord and to the movement of units aren't good changes.
And the Battleboards might be more balanced in 2nd edition, but that's mainly because they are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more boring than the ones from 1st edition.
The 1st edition Battleboards had all these interesting mechanics that differed greatly.
The 2nd edition Battleboards are all very bland, basically just containing things like "gain 2 Defence Dice here, gain 2 Attack Dice there".
They bore the hell out of me. That's why I stopped playing SAGA.
The game lost all appeal for me with its 2nd edition.
It's gotten simpler and it has been dumbed down.
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Tastes clearly vary. Our entire group feels like v2 is a clear upgrade over v1.
Clearer, more streamlined and less prone to arguments does not have to mean dumbed down.
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Tastes clearly vary. Our entire group feels like v2 is a clear upgrade over v1.
Clearer, more streamlined and less prone to arguments does not have to mean dumbed down.
True, but in this case it does.
Look, I'm not trying to start a fight here, but as someone who played hundreds of matches during the 1st edition and organized tournaments I think I know what I'm talking about and the rules were dumbed down.
They were very clear before, every sentence told you exactly what to do, it was just complex and some people (many people) couldn't get their heads around it.
I remember people who had trouble remembering the close combat sequence. The reason wasn't that it was unclear, the reason was, that it was too much for them to remember. And that's just one example of many.
Anyway, people can play whatever they want. I just know that I lost all interest in the game.
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They were very clear before...
YMMV. I didn't really like the v1 rules at all and thought they were a mess
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They bore the hell out of me. That's why I stopped playing SAGA.
The game lost all appeal for me with its 2nd edition.
It's gotten simpler and it has been dumbed down.
My regular opponent and I felt that second edition was a bit bland to start with, and we took break from it after a few games for other things. Then we tried Age of Magic, and found that the spells and new troop type options added an extra dimension that really helped us get back into it, to the extent that I have painted two new warbands during lockdown.
If fantasy is not your thing, I suspect that the ruses in Age of Hannibal will fulfill the same role as the spells in spicing things up.
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My regular opponent and I felt that second edition was a bit bland to start with, and we took break from it after a few games for other things. Then we tried Age of Magic, and found that the spells and new troop type options added an extra dimension that really helped us get back into it, to the extent that I have painted two new warbands during lockdown.
If fantasy is not your thing, I suspect that the ruses in Age of Hannibal will fulfill the same role as the spells in spicing things up.
That is certainly my experience. I really couldn't be bothered to play Age of Vikings but I have several Age of Magic forces and am working on another
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We also found v2 a big improvement; new uses for fatigue, much clearer rules on spending fatigue and abilities, banking dice, closing ranks, and removal of all the strange corner cases around side by side, levies and warriors generating Saga dice if units big enough. All improvements, and no way is the game 'dumbed down'. On the contrary, I think there's more to to think about, but also less 'gotcha' moments with crazy combinatons from some factions, which I see as a good thing.
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That is certainly my experience. I really couldn't be bothered to play Age of Vikings but I have several Age of Magic forces and am working on another
I forgot to say that I also added fantasy elements to historical warbands, such as large wolves to my Vikings, to use them in AoM as well. This obviously allows for multiple uses.
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I forgot to say that I also added fantasy elements to historical warbands, such as large wolves to my Vikings, to use them in AoM as well. This obviously allows for multiple uses.
I experimented with Creatures, Monsters, and Sorcerers attached to historical warbands using historical Battleboards. No reason why it can't be played, imo, though there are probably some decent, untested, Special Ability + Spell combos that might be unbalancing.