Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Adventures in the Far East => Topic started by: FierceKitty on January 30, 2021, 04:52:38 AM
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Does anyone share my mounting irritation that these aren't to be had in 10mm?
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Not really, or maybe I should say "not surprising". IMHO Chinese or other "Far Eastern" ancient/medieval armies are generally poorly served in any scale. I would be hard-pressed to think of many manufacturers , with the exception of 1st Corps/Curteys in 28mm and Essex in 15mm, who produce more than one or two ranges, with Warring States, generic "Asian Nomad and Mongol being the usual fare. 28 and 15mm have been around for decades, and to some extent by comparison 10mm is the "new kid on the block". It could be down to the lack of readily available well-illustrated sources in English.
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As you say, no surprise involved. Irritation remains.
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Probably far too niche. Who are you considering as opponents? Going purely historical limits it further so I see no end to your irritation unfortunately. There a couple of figures in other ranges such as the Irregular Sung and East Riding WS that could be used as proxies but it would be a very limited looking army.
Personally I want Taiping and Boxer Rebellion and I am sure my only way out will be to commission a sculptor
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Probably far too niche. Who are you considering as opponents? Going purely historical limits it further so I see no end to your irritation unfortunately. There a couple of figures in other ranges such as the Irregular Sung and East Riding WS that could be used as proxies but it would be a very limited looking army.
Personally I want Taiping and Boxer Rebellion and I am sure my only way out will be to commission a sculptor
There's frequent talk about Boxers on the Pendraken forum. Live in hope. As for opponents, I can do dark ages Arabs already, and Tibetans wouldn't be too hard to proxy.
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Probably far too niche. Who are you considering as opponents? Going purely historical limits it further so I see no end to your irritation unfortunately. There a couple of figures in other ranges such as the Irregular Sung and East Riding WS that could be used as proxies but it would be a very limited looking army.
Personally I want Taiping and Boxer Rebellion and I am sure my only way out will be to commission a sculptor
I couldn't find the East Riding WS, but did find these, although they would seem to be difficult to obtain:
https://www.10mm-wargaming.com/2018/12/10mm-chinese-warring-states-fogg-of-war.html
I would be interested in Taiping, too.
As for Tang, we can only hope. It is unfortunate that the Chinese diaspora and China'a economic development would not yet seem to have motivated the production of such Chinese historical ranges in plastic.
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I couldn't find the East Riding WS, but did find these, although they would seem to be difficult to obtain:
https://www.10mm-wargaming.com/2018/12/10mm-chinese-warring-states-fogg-of-war.html
I would be interested in Taiping, too.
As for Tang, we can only hope. It is unfortunate that the Chinese diaspora and China'a economic development would not yet seem to have motivated the production of such Chinese historical ranges in plastic.
10mm are usually metals anyway. I've got some of the Fogg of War Warring States Chinese; mostly good, and their chariots were better than Newline (a company whose 10mm range is new, but has some Lulus, and at moderate prices too), but their halberdiers were marred by extremely flimsy shafts. I've written to Newline and entreated them to make a few Tang as well.
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10mm are usually metals anyway. I've got some of the Fogg of War Warring States Chinese; mostly good, and their chariots were better than Newline (a company whose 10mm range is new, but has some Lulus, and at moderate prices too), but their halberdiers were marred by extremely flimsy shafts. I've written to Newline and entreated them to make a few Tang as well.
What particular issues did you find with Newline's 10mm Han?
Oddly enough, I have very recently been in correspondence with Fogg of War about Tang and other Chinese-related possibilities... ;)
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I'm really tempted with Khurasans 15mm ranges and would suggest them as a possible if you're willing to switch up by 5mm.
He does Tang as well as their opponents; Koreans, Kofun/Ritsuryo Japanese and Tibetans. That combined with the large quantity of Arabs/Turk types etc in 15mm you pretty much have all the main opponents/allies for the Tang.
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I'm really tempted with Khurasans 15mm ranges and would suggest them as a possible if you're willing to switch up by 5mm.
He does Tang as well as their opponents; Koreans, Kofun/Ritsuryo Japanese and Tibetans. That combined with the large quantity of Arabs/Turk types etc in 15mm you pretty much have all the main opponents/allies for the Tang.
Yes, Khurasan have been on my "to purchase" list for years. I must resolve to ignore all tempting sales and bargains in order to buy some nice figures at their regular price!
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What particular issues did you find with Newline's 10mm Han?
Oddly enough, I have very recently been in correspondence with Fogg of War about Tang and other Chinese-related possibilities... ;)
Two. The chariot wheels are solid, with spokes in relief but without empty spaces between them. The Reiver ones had proper spokes, and oh, the difference to me! You might consider converting artillery wheels from elsewhere for the chariots.
The other is negative; no convicts!
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I'm really tempted with Khurasans 15mm ranges and would suggest them as a possible if you're willing to switch up by 5mm.
He does Tang as well as their opponents; Koreans, Kofun/Ritsuryo Japanese and Tibetans. That combined with the large quantity of Arabs/Turk types etc in 15mm you pretty much have all the main opponents/allies for the Tang.
Ta. I've done 15mm Tang previously, but the one true scale has my heart these days.
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Chaps, I've just read the reference to "Fogg of War". They look nice figures but I can't find a website, only a photo of a figures listing dating back to 2017. Are they still trading and if so how do you contact them/order?
Thanks.
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They seem to have dropped off the radar. I've tried to track them down; no dice.
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Chaps, I've just read the reference to "Fogg of War". They look nice figures but I can't find a website, only a photo of a figures listing dating back to 2017. Are they still trading and if so how do you contact them/order?
Thanks.
I found them by searching the facebook group "10mm Wargaming & Terrain;" and was able to contact one of the owners through messenger. He then sent pictures and a list by email.
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Chaps, I've just read the reference to "Fogg of War". They look nice figures but I can't find a website, only a photo of a figures listing dating back to 2017. Are they still trading and if so how do you contact them/order?
Thanks.
Have sent you their email address by PM!
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Do Fogg of War have a good range of Chinese? I ended up building Chu and Qin with the Newline Han (with entreaties to expand their range in future with spearmen, archers and militia/rebel types) Like others I'd a hard time finding more than a few grainy old pics online. Are they reasonably compatible?
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From memory they do/did Eastern and Western ranges. I think mine are Eastern?? They are a little slimmer and the polearms are very bendy but I think they match up quite well.
Some quick crappy phone pics. Fogg on the left, Newline on the right. Last pic is most of the variants of Fogg I have. Hope it helps. You can see what Fierce Kitty means with the chariot wheels.
(http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/720-040221200609.png) (http://<img src="http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/50/720-040221200609.png" />)
Svennn
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Very nice. They would add some nice variety to my forces. One for when I'm ready for phase 2
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Do Fogg of War have a good range of Chinese? I ended up building Chu and Qin with the Newline Han (with entreaties to expand their range in future with spearmen, archers and militia/rebel types) Like others I'd a hard time finding more than a few grainy old pics online. Are they reasonably compatible?
They sent me a catalogue and pictures by email a few days ago. They have very nice-looking Warring States Chinese, Mongols, and Samurai. The pictures show a lot of detail, with two or so figures in each, but they are all at least 1.7 MB, and I'm not sure whether I could share them. If you'd like for me to share their email address, please feel free to send a PM.
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Mainly Newline, some Reiver, a few Magister Militum, and a very few Pendraken.
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Mainly Newline, some Reiver, a few Magister Militum, and a very few Pendraken.
That is an impressive force! Which troop types did you raise from among the non-Newline sources - Xiongnu?
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PM sent :)
While not as large as FKs impressive forces (time and space constraints have kept my recent projects small) my Chu and Qin forces are mostly Newline with a few MM Qin spearmen and horse mixed in and some Irregular Sung archers.
Qin
(https://mmcvhistoryhome.files.wordpress.com/2020/11/img_20201102_1320309217241658691452056914.jpg?w=1024)
More here: http://mmcvhistory.home.blog/2020/11/02/qin-chinese/
Chu
(https://mmcvhistoryhome.files.wordpress.com/2020/11/img_20201116_2104091721020502375757612216.jpg?w=1024)
More here: https://mmcvhistoryhome.wordpress.com/2020/11/16/chu-on-this-chinese/
So the FoW ones might as a nice bit of variety.
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PM sent :)
While not as large as FKs impressive forces (time and space constraints have kept my recent projects small) my Chu and Qin forces are mostly Newline with a few MM Qin spearmen and horse mixed in and some Irregular Sung archers.
Which rulesets have you used for ancient Chinese gaming?
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Which rulesets have you used for ancient Chinese gaming?
These guys have had a few outings with To The Strongest. Worked reasonably well. I only finished them the end of last year so haven't played much. I did look at putting lists together for Hail Caesar but didn't feel particularly inspired to go further. I've also been dabbling with my own ruleset for mixed arms Japanese warfare and tempted to run these guys with the rules to see how they fare.
How about yourself?
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That is an impressive force! Which troop types did you raise from among the non-Newline sources - Xiongnu?
There are Reiver cavalry, and one of the chariot forces; Han swordsmen; many of the Ch'in halberdiers (animated figures, but desperately flimsy weapons). The Han convicts are Mag. Mil. peasant levies, the Hsiong-Nu Pendraken Mongols (I shudder to say it, but they painted up convincingly), Navwar ship.
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There are Reiver cavalry, and one of the chariot forces; Han swordsmen; many of the Ch'in halberdiers (animated figures, but desperately flimsy weapons). The Han convicts are Mag. Mil. peasant levies, the Hsiong-Nu Pendraken Mongols (I shudder to say it, but they painted up convincingly), Navwar ship.
I'll likely use Mongols as Xiongnu myself when the time comes.. I've a few Mongols proxying for other nomadic types elsewhere and as far as I could tell the dress and technology of the Steppes didn't really change dramatically for a few millennia, so Mongols seem sensible.
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You're right, of course. My shudder of horror was based on my irritation at those who cheerfully assume that every steppe tribe or confederation was the same - especially Gibbons' penicious identification of the Huns with the Hsiung Nu. There was probably some connexion, just as in my veins there flows Scottish and Malay blood; I still haven't noticed much tartan or haggis in Kuala Lumpur (more's the pity).
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You're right, of course. My shudder of horror was based on my irritation at those who cheerfully assume that every steppe tribe or confederation was the same - especially Gibbons' penicious identification of the Huns with the Hsiung Nu. There was probably some connexion, just as in my veins there flows Scottish and Malay blood; I still haven't noticed much tartan or haggis in Kuala Lumpur (more's the pity).
Did you mean de Guignes? Never mind, I see that Gibbons propagated de Guignes' idea.
Would you know what might have happened to the 10mm Reiver ranges? I can't seem to find them on the Northumbrian Painting Services website.
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Would that I knew!
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Have there been any developments in the matter of 10mm Tang? I'm rather out on the edge of things in Thailand (and ironically closer to China itself than most who have an interest in Far Eastern gaming).
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The issue of defining accurately the racial nature of steppes " tribes" is here to stay from wargaming conversations to academic research. In my modest opinion, I would suggest that it would have made most of these people laugh: you survived with courage and fought well, you were part of the band, maybe starting as a fighting slave and rising with your exploits. And there were those kids from captives, the good ones would come along as well. Then you have the court of Attila, very "global" indeed. The Gobi to Tarim hordes would porbably be a mixture of Tokharians, Turks, Mongols, and eastern Iranians. The ruling families would maybe separate one from another racially. And the major factor would be the common language adopted.
Talking about the Taiping and Boxer rebellions , did somebody mention the very nice Gringo 40 ranges in 28mm?
Philippe