Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Medieval Adventures => Topic started by: Bohica on February 07, 2021, 11:59:18 PM
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I'm looking for recommendations on rule sets for Mass battles during the War of the Roses. I'm all set on skirmish so do not need recommendations. I want rules to fight the large fights which I will be using my 6mm figures.
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Our local group likes To the Strongest for large battles.
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Peter Pig have recently released Bloody Barons 2nd edition, so you might want to find some reviews about that. Unless those more in the know can advise on the merits or otherwise and scale of the ruleset. I believe its for 15mm but can be adjusted for 28mm depending how large a table you have.
Its apparently quite different in play to first edition, so rumour has it.
There is also a ruleset I've heard off called Poleaxed, which had 2 sourcebooks for differing periods of the war. I think it was related to Freezywater publications (but don't quote me on that) so its all A5 sized.
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We’ve used TTS for WoTR - gave a good game. Not sure on how good a historical simulation it is, but we got lots of great lookign figures on the table
We tried playing one game of poleaxed. Didn’t feel much of a game, units (3 a side) moved forward a bit, pretty much in straight lines. Fighting was odd. Has lots of period bits to it, but felt very unfinished as a game.
The Perfect Captain has a battle and campaign system called something like a Crown of Paper - which looks really good - but it is a whole collection of PDF files, and I struggled to work out what was needed to play vs what was effectively expansions. But it is free.
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I use Advanced Impetus and find they work well. Great big bases for achieving diorama, The longbow A are devastating, and heavy foot can really wreck standard bill men, cavalry are still effective if used correctly.
Impetus also has a nice campaign also, plus one I wrote for the midlands.
I would suggest not to use Basic Impetus as it is quite balanced and no real difference between troop types, shooting is deplorable also for longbow.
Cheers
Matt
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My local group tried Impetus and gave up on them, but I do know they have a loyal following. TTS has become our “go-to” set for ancient/medieval including WoTR but I know some think they don’t have enough period specific flavour. At the end of the day your troop types are largely longbow, bill and some knights. I think “Poleaxed” are quite old school but obviously have the bonus of being period specific.
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Thanks for the suggestions so far. Has anyone tried Mortem et Gloriam for the period? I have a copy of those rules I picked up for my ancients but hadn't thought about them for WotR.
(Edit: I failed to mention in my original post is that I will be using 6mm for the 'big' battles)
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I haven't tried Mortem et Gloriam myself but some members of our club have tried it and liked it. I don't know if that is a recommendation!
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Bloody Barons (First Edition) worked well. I think the second edition is hex based. o_o
A Coat of Steel by the Perfect Captain would scale down very well and is certainly worth a shot too.
It's available on the Perfect Captain Facebook page in the Files section
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Another vote for TtS. Simple, elegant and full of tension.
Big WotR games can be turgid. I know because I sold a moderately large 28mm collection (800+ figures) when I got bored of samey WotR battles. However, TtS has made playing WoR enjoyably tense affairs, and if TtS had been around at the time I would have kept my figures: They were reasonably well painted for the time.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_WzUta4JPR-o/SHNcfpSXF5I/AAAAAAAAAXE/gcSkR0WAOiY/s1600/Somerset.JPG)
Fortunately, one of my regular opponents has a large WoR collection to play TtS with, so I haven't missed out completely.
Get TtS, simple as that.
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Wrote a thing about Bloody Barons 2 here, it's my go to set for WOTR battles now:
https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2020/04/05/bloody-barons/ (https://adcgaming.wordpress.com/2020/04/05/bloody-barons/)
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Another for consideration - available for free from Legio Wargames - Tree of Battles.
http://legio-wargames.com/medieval/4563587662 (http://legio-wargames.com/medieval/4563587662)
Can't say I have seen much discussion about them.
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Bloody Barons (First Edition) worked well. I think the second edition is hex based. o_o
A Coat of Steel by the Perfect Captain would scale down very well and is certainly worth a shot too.
It's available on the Perfect Captain Facebook page in the Files section
Could you post a link for that.
Also do you have a link for the Crown of Paper downloads they seem to be dead links on the web page I found.
Thanks.
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Crown of Paper should be here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W8zOJHzn6NdkCm0dx9E7RIIlVBONthLY/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W8zOJHzn6NdkCm0dx9E7RIIlVBONthLY/view)
Coat of Steel is here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nJFsrcqmZ9D5MVtTjt_f6w7zT8D7o-Hu/view (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nJFsrcqmZ9D5MVtTjt_f6w7zT8D7o-Hu/view)
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Another for consideration - available for free from Legio Wargames - Tree of Battles.
http://legio-wargames.com/medieval/4563587662 (http://legio-wargames.com/medieval/4563587662)
Can't say I have seen much discussion about them.
Me neither, but thanks for the link the rules look interesting. I see they are based on Comitatus which I really enjoy.
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Tree of Battles does look interesting, and anything by Simon McDowell is worth checking out. I will be "giving them a go".
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My local group tried Impetus and gave up on them, but I do know they have a loyal following. TTS has become our “go-to” set for ancient/medieval including WoTR but I know some think they don’t have enough period specific flavour. At the end of the day your troop types are largely longbow, bill and some knights. I think “Poleaxed” are quite old school but obviously have the bonus of being period specific.
Interesting which version the free Basic Impetus , the published Basic Impetus or Advanced Impetus?
Each is a different animal, the first two are like wanking in my opinion. You get a result but not very satisfactory. Basic is too vanilla and is designed for a forty minute to 1 hour game for club meetings and hard head competition players.
Advanced Impetus can give you a proper working over, you feel like you are in a seesaw or tumbler when hand to hand is thick. The same historical battle can have huge variances in results depending upon who has the initiative and good dice rolls, and by tweaking wards and adding or removing generals it really can be a nail biter. The scope for multiple movement in a single turn and well drilled troops really changes it and sold it for me.
Although not a tournament player I did attend a number of Advanced Impetus tournaments in Australia, only one tournament over three days was themed late medieval early Renaissance. My Yorkists done quite well running second. 7 win games and one draw, so I was happy with the results.
Advanced Impetus bought me back to Medievals after Warhammer Ancients fell on its sword locally, tried Hail Caesar but that is like eating the same biscuit with different looking armies, Art de la Guerre is really micro millimetre competition play. DBM just hang me...
Cheers
Matt
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Surely hail caesar has to get a mention. Fast,flexible.
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Hi,
I'm one of the chaps that SiWi is referring to with regard to the relative merits of TTS / Mortem et Gloriam for late 15th Century / WOTR gaming.
I'm a big fan of TTS and it always seems to give a very good game irrespective of the specific period. However, I felt that using it for WOTR didn't quite recreate the "feel" that I was seeking for this period.
I have tried M&G a couple of times. It is certainly unique, like TTS, but rather more complex. I enjoyed the games but haven't played it since because TTS is the system we generally use. However, I did think it worked very well for the late Medieval period, and posted an AAR here of a counterfactual game that I hosted with the premise that Edward IV really did persist with his invasion of France. I have dug it out:
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=114828.msg1437046#msg1437046
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we have been using Never Mind the Billhooks - still works for big battles
(https://i.imgur.com/h68d9nN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/j0NNeyo.jpg)
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I must admit I have heard good things about “Never Mind the Billhooks” and have acquired a copy. However my figures are based for Impetus and hence not exactly compatible. Bit of a shame and a reason why I now base individually and use sabot trays.