Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => The Second World War => Topic started by: TacticalPainter on February 13, 2021, 03:21:00 AM
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I've been wanting to give this intriguing campaign a try for some time, so I'm pleased to make it our first CoC campaign of the year. This is set in the Ardennes in the winter of 1944 with elements of the US 28th Division trying to hold an outpost line along Skyline Drive in the face of the German winter offensive.
While the average CoC campaign follows a campaign ladder in a reasonably logical order this campaign allows for the Germans to infiltrate around the campaign ladder with the potential to strike at any of the maps and in any order they might choose. Excellent for fog of war and something that keeps the American player trying to second guess where trouble may be coming from next.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/KuoHvZ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmKuoHvZj)
To help readers that are not familiar with the campaign I've put together a post that helps explain how the campaign works and what the options are for both players. You can find that here https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/02/a-guide-to-following-bloody-bucket.html
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/arkjz2.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmarkjz2j)
I've also produced a post about pulling together the various elements of terrain and the miniatures needed to run the campaign and you can find that here http://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/02/getting-ready-for-bloody-bucket-campaign.html
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/b90ltx.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmb90ltxj)
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Looking forward to this one... where's the snow?? :D
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Looking forward to this one... where's the snow?? :D
There wasn’t any there then, it was cold but snow didn’t fall there until a week or so later. I know everyone thinks Bulge=snow, but as I’ve discovered this is not always so. Naturally this is very convenient as I don’t have any snow terrain but I’m not fudging history this really is snow-free.
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After a couple of turns with the Germans infiltrating around the American positions we hit turn 3 of the campaign with two assaults launched. The first is on Map 1 Skyline Drive and so we begin the fighting that will determine the outcome of the campaign. The full AAR is here: http://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/02/bloody-bucket-turn-3-scenario-1-skyline.html
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/923/MWb9Dz.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnMWb9Dzj)
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Just read the AAR, you and Dave have got this down to a fine art now. Great table, I really got the sense of that expanse of deadly open ground.
And having read all the material on your blog about the 6 maps and the early turn manoeuvring It's really added an extra dimension to these rules. I always liked the sequential way you moved from one map to the next before but this is even better.
Keep up the good work :D
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Excellent AAR to go with well written overview of the campaign and the description of the first two turns. Thank you. A return to a part of the old 'normal' - breakfast and Tactical Painter, happy days!
Cheers
Tony
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The additions look great and the campaign is something different. Looking forward to seeing how it progresses.
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Really cool campaign game. :-*
You are an excellent story teller.
Exciting to the end.
Thanks so much for sharing.
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Looking forward to seeing how this develops. Your campaign AARs are always excellent.
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Indeed, as soon as the lockdown ends, I will be playing Bloody Bucket myself....looking forward to any tips you put up.
At least lockdown is giving us the chance to make all our scenery!
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Excellent, I look forward to the reports
Cheers
Matt
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great stuff :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
The AAR is great too
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Many thanks for all the great comments, so pleased to see so many following the campaign and enjoying it so far.
The Germans make their second attack of campaign turn 3. This time they fall on Holzthum Village at Map 3. Can this platoon of Volksgrenadiers have more success than the platoon that attacked Skyline Drive? Full AAR is here: https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/02/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-3-scenario.html
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/2fw3uQ.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pm2fw3uQj)
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I really enjoy your AAR's :-* :-* :-*
I thought the German firepower was going to win that one
I really like how these rules supply a lot of twists and turns
And a single decision can change the game result
Looking forward to the campaign progress
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Excellent AAR.
I figured the Germans with all their firepower would have a good chance for a win.
Well played for an American win.
Will be real interesting if the German bridge the river.
Thanks for the great write up.
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Thanks. Yes, all that German firepower was intimidating but in the end I think the Americans had the advantage - better quality troops, less brittle squads (ie bigger) and hard cover really helped. They may not have assault rifles but their semi-automatics are not without their uses (re-rolling ones makes a surprising difference). I'm not sure things will remain this easy - there are Panthers waiting to cross the river!
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Hope you have some bazookas stockpiled!
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That was great!
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The campaign rolls on and the German pioneers struggle to bridge the River Our so that heavier support can assist the Volksgrenadiers dislodge the Americans. After two bloody repulses in the previous games, can the Germans start to drive the Americans from Skyline Drive? Full AAR of the next game here: https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/03/bloody-bucket-campaign-turns-4-5.html
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Another excellent AAR.
I will hold comments for a later post.
Really love the photos,
story well told.
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Phew! The Americans kept their nerve. All those double phases you couldn't use! Dice are so weird sometimes.... but that's what makes it fun. :D
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Another nice report :-* :-* :-*
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Phew! The Americans kept their nerve. All those double phases you couldn't use! Dice are so weird sometimes.... but that's what makes it fun. :D
Yes, I could have wept seeing all those double phases and letting them pass. Of course with hindsight I can say my patience paid off in the end, but it wasn't quite so obvious at the time.
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The Americans have put up a determined resistance so far and the Germans are still looking for their first victory of the campaign. The clock is ticking against them but now that they have armour available that might just give them the edge they need to dislodge the Americans. We get to Campaign Turn 6 and the Germans continue to ramp up the pressure. You can find out what happens next in this AAR: http://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/03/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-6-scenario.html
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/922/JDFZo7.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmJDFZo7j)
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Another great read.
Quick question. Why didn't you deploy the 50 cal behind the building? It could have shot down the flanking platoon without taking fire from the hedge line.
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Another great read.
Quick question. Why didn't you deploy the 50 cal behind the building? It could have shot down the flanking platoon without taking fire from the hedge line.
I gave that one some thought. The problem was how the 50cal would deal with the other Germans coming out of the woods. In hindsight behind the barn, as part of a very rearward defence might have worked. My main concern was less the squad on the flank as I was fairly certain I could stop them, but more about the full platoon advancing out of the woods to the hedge line and then the two farm buildings. I didn’t feel being behind the barn was the best overall tactical position at the time.
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Very nice report as usual :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Interesting AAR.
Tough going for the US.
A question if I may ask.
The maps look like they have a lot of open space.
Which means to me, lots of base of fire and support and open ground to move over.
Are the maps all like that and do you have any photos of the real areas fought over?
Of course being war gamers we have to make concessions to game play.
Thanks again for another great battle report.
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Yes, the area is very open. While the Ardennes is noted for its forests nearly all the settlements are on the ridges which are the only areas of flat ground. Wherever practical these have been cleared for agricultural, which is dominated by dairy farming.
Skyline Drive got its name for this reason, it runs along a ridge line with a good open view across fields.
Here’s a modern colour picture taken on a stretch of the old road that was the here in 1944 and a contemporary one showing the small villages surrounded by open fields.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/922/ZSbD0z.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pmZSbD0zj)
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/ceceGL.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poceceGLj)
Historical accounts from Americans talk about the Volksgrenadiers crossing open ground in the open (and suffering as a result).
The picture below is of American dead in the area and again you see the flat open fields behind.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/923/vVestv.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/pnvVestvj)
Even in the valleys any level ground is cleared for agriculture and the settlements are surrounded by fields.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/ALTBlx.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poALTBlxj)
Google Earth will show similar.
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You have really done some homework!
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Great photos.
Thanks.
I did not think to use Google earth.
I have used it at other times. ::)
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This is the second German attack of Turn 6 on the Outskirts of Consthum. The Germans were successful in their first attack of the turn, but could they repeat their success here? This one packed quite a surprise and more than a few cinematic moments. The full AAR is here: https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/03/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-6-scenario_26.html
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Thanks for the AAR, excellent as usual. A quick question if I may. If the 'jeep' had driven off the table whilst panicked would it have dropped the German moral? Not seen that before so no idea and rules not to hand.
Thanks
Tony
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Thanks for the AAR, excellent as usual. A quick question if I may. If the 'jeep' had driven off the table whilst panicked would it have dropped the German moral? Not seen that before so no idea and rules not to hand.
Thanks
Tony
I don’t believe there is a specific rule to cover it. We play that if a unit breaks and they end up moving far enough off the table then that unit is considered to have routed and if applicable that would initiate a morale check. In this case we would probably have done something similar, the driver’s panic constituted something close to a rout. The jeep and occupants could not return to the table so for all intents and purposes the unit is ‘lost’ to the platoon just as if it had routed. One could assume its disappearance would have the same dispiriting impact on the platoon.
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Great write up in the AAR and I agree about the cinematic events with the jeep. Too bad it couldn't prevent the Americans deploying but a very dramatic end.
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Brilliant stuff. Like a four wheeled Forlorn Hope. I wonder if the Germans in the jeep were all volunteers.
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I don’t believe there is a specific rule to cover it. We play that if a unit breaks and they end up moving far enough off the table then that unit is considered to have routed and if applicable that would initiate a morale check. In this case we would probably have done something similar, the driver’s panic constituted something close to a rout. The jeep and occupants could not return to the table so for all intents and purposes the unit is ‘lost’ to the platoon just as if it had routed. One could assume its disappearance would have the same dispiriting impact on the platoon.
Thanks for the clarification, appreciated
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Cracking report of a very unusal game :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Great campaign and excellent write ups 👍
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Lots of fun reading about the jeep. :)
Thanks for sharing.
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Deja vu for the Volksgrenadiers as they make their third attempt to dislodge the Americans from the crossroads on Skyline Drive. It's a tough table to attack with much open ground but we now enter the second day of the campaign and the German support levels increase even further. Can this heroic American platoon hold out once more? The full AAR is here: https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/04/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-7-scenario.html
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Very cat and mouse game, with both sides unwilling to risk taking heavy casualties.
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I think the Americans did their best against the overwhelming odds. The use of the CoC dice was a tiny bit "gamey" for me (or it would have been more so if it had worked) but it's in the rules I guess, the way it played out with the bazooka team getting caught in the open was completely reasonable though.
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I think the Americans did their best against the overwhelming odds. The use of the CoC dice was a tiny bit "gamey" for me (or it would have been more so if it had worked) but it's in the rules I guess, the way it played out with the bazooka team getting caught in the open was completely reasonable though.
I understand how it can be seen that way. The ‘turn end’ is seen as one of those pauses in the action that occur, often for no obvious reason. I saw it as the Americans waiting patiently for the right moment, sensing a lull in the action and a chance to catch the Germans off their guard. A CoC die is a valuable thing and could have had several other uses, so I consider their use part of the tactical thinking of the platoon lieutenant. Someone on the lookout for the best opportunity to act.
In terms of the game’s narrative, the Germans have yet to spot any Americans, they may well have paused for a moment to consider what is happening or confer. I see use of the CoC die as the American commander seeing this happen, seizing the moment and telling the bazooka team that now is the time to surprise the Panther. Similarly the German use of the same is their commander being more alert to the situation than his men and making a rapid response to the ambush. I think it makes a plausible narrative. A CoC die is a valuable thing, to be used as an additional tactical asset, deciding when and how it can improve you performance is a key decision in the game.
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Nicely done!
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Very interesting game.
I find that my thinking for a one off game is very different than a campaign game.
This game shows that very well.
Loved the tension of both sides waiting for "the moment."
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Cracking stuff :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Very interesting game.
I find that my thinking for a one off game is very different than a campaign game.
This game shows that very well.
Loved the tension of both sides waiting for "the moment."
We really like the way a campaign adds that extra depth to a game so that every game has a consequence for future games and the campaign as a whole. I know some people consider a ‘short’ game like this as a waste of players’ time but we both embrace the wider narrative and have no issue if the outcome makes sense for the campaign.
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Once again the Germans return to Holzthum Village to see if they can evict the Americans. So far the Germans are finding dislodging the Americans from any of the maps a very difficult proposition, but their recent successes clearing Maps 1 and 2 has buoyed their spirits. Are they about to unpick the American defence of skyline drive? The full AAR is here: https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/04/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-7-scenario_18.html
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Most interesting. The Americans seemed in acute danger at the beginning.
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I agree with your final assessment ...more aggression with the panther for sure.
I like your buildings....and you have spurred me into thinking I need a large industrial / agricultural building! Now to find or build one!
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The germans are taking a severe beating again
Those small squads are terrible
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Excellent AAR and a wonderful table to play on. Loving following this campaign.
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Inspiring. I only have an infantry platoon and a Waffen-SS platoon, but this has set me to searching for some 28mm buildings (I'll try PaperTerrain I think, given my budget at the moment)... and, I should scan the campaign doc to see about the assets one can add here and there...
For this path, I owe it to that cool pic of the Panther tank.
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For this path, I owe it to that cool pic of the Panther tank.
It's the sexy engine deck isn't it lol
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The Germans are behind schedule and the pressure is on to capture the remaining four battlefields before time runs out. We are now at Turn 8 and the Germans make a second attempt to clear the Americans from Map 4 The Outskirts of Consthum, will they be more successful this time? The full AAR is here: http://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/04/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-8-scenario.html
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Another cracking game :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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That tank/bazooka duel was exciting.
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That tank/bazooka duel was exciting.
I can’t recall ever firing so many anti-tank rounds at a single AFV. It made for an incredibly tense game and a lot of fun.
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Excellent AAR’s and one of the reasons CoC is popular is the highs and lows one can experience during a game.
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Having successfully cleared the outskirts of Consthum the same Volksgrenadier platoon takes advantage of the blitzkrieg campaign rule to mount an attack on the next table immediately. And why not, it's a free game that might help get the German attack back on schedule? It also sees the return of that pesky Panther from the previous game, the one that led a charmed life in the face of numerous bazooka rounds. Will it be so lucky this time? Full AAR is here https://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/05/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-8-scenario.html
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Excellent stuff. We just started on the campaign today so looking forward to seeing more of your AARs.
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Excellent stuff. We just started on the campaign today so looking forward to seeing more of your AARs.
Look forward to hearing how you go, which side are you playing?
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I am playing the Yanks. We were both too engrossed (or slack) to take many photos or to do a proper AAR.
I don't want to pollute your thread with my waffling so suffice it to say our first battle was The Road to Holzthum. The Germans moving from Assembly point B, lined the edge of the forest, were punished early on for attempting to cross the open ground. A punishing shootout from the US in the buildings against the Germans in the forest eventually led to an American victory. The Bloody Bucket has already earned it's name. We were both a bit rusty with CoC but I believe we learned a lot from this battle.
If you don't mind, I may be asking some questions along the way.
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Great AAR.
Seems like someone got what was coming to them.
(At least from one point of view.) ???
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Seemed like everything was in the attacker's favour in the first couple of turns, and then....pow!
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Every so often the dice just decide that they hate you... :)
I wondered about pushing the Panther that far forward, but hey, 20/20 hindsight. And Green troops caught in the open, Ouch!
Loving it - just like all your campaign reports. About to try and inveigle a CoC virgin into playing a game or two, with a view to getting him into playing a campaign.
One thing I struggle with is a lack of well-matched opponents. You know how it is, if you're rubbish, and they're not, it's no fun losing every game, and vice versa. :)
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Great report again. Really loving the Yanks giving those Krauts a bloody nose.
Re different skill levels. CoC has lots of ways to provide a handicap, eg:
Weaken the core platoon of the stronger player (eg give them some casualties going in)
Give more support points to the weaker player
Give the weaker player an extra command dice
Give the weaker player some CoC dice to start with
Lower the morale level of the stronger player
Boost the morale level of the weaker player
Give the stronger player a Green platoon but at the rating of a normal platoon
Give the weaker player an elite platoon but at the rating of a normal platoon
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Great report again. Really loving the Yanks giving those Krauts a bloody nose.
Re different skill levels. CoC has lots of ways to provide a handicap, eg:
Weaken the core platoon of the stronger player (eg give them some casualties going in)
Give more support points to the weaker player
Give the weaker player an extra command dice
Give the weaker player some CoC dice to start with
Lower the morale level of the stronger player
Boost the morale level of the weaker player
Give the stronger player a Green platoon but at the rating of a normal platoon
Give the weaker player an elite platoon but at the rating of a normal platoon
All good stratagems. The tricky bit is making a handicap work with the published PSC campaigns. :) Hopefully I will get better at it.
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One thing I struggle with is a lack of well-matched opponents. You know how it is, if you're rubbish, and they're not, it's no fun losing every game, and vice versa. :)
Yep, you cannot underestimate what an impact this makes. As much as some people enjoy gaming I know several who are just poor tacticians - doesn’t matter what game they play. The end result tends to be very unsatisfactory because games become too one sided. No fun for you if it’s too easy, no fun for them because they’ve been crushed. The wiser ones can see they’ve been outplayed, others put the defeat down to a broken set of rules. As much as I like to win, there’s no pleasure in a walkover because I also want the challenge of taking on a good opponent. Dave and I are fairly evenly matched so I’m lucky in this respect.
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The Germans return to Holzthum Village for the second attack of campaign turn 8. This will be their third attempt to drive the Americans from the village. The question is, will they be any more successful this time? Full AAR is here: http://thetacticalpainter.blogspot.com/2021/05/bloody-bucket-campaign-turn-8-scenario_30.html
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Excellent AAR with a plethoraof wonderful photos. :-* :-* :-* :-*
Having read all your posts, I do somewhat agree with you the the games have turned out very samey, with a careful probe by the Germans (with the exception of the Jeep escapade) and the Americans staying quiet until they unleash concentrated firepower on a few squads. The outcomes have been by and large predicatable.
That said, I would be keen to read some more if you decide to carry on with this particular campaign. You have certainly convinced me to re-examine CoC as a ruleset.
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Excellent AAR with a plethoraof wonderful photos. :-* :-* :-* :-*
Having read all your posts, I do somewhat agree with you the the games have turned out very samey, with a careful probe by the Germans (with the exception of the Jeep escapade) and the Americans staying quiet until they unleash concentrated firepower on a few squads. The outcomes have been by and large predicatable.
That said, I would be keen to read some more if you decide to carry on with this particular campaign. You have certainly convinced me to re-examine CoC as a ruleset.
Thanks. After ten games we’re not sure there’s much more to get out of it given we’re heading to a somewhat predictable outcome. Dave is no quitter but as he said after this one, do we want to use up valuable gaming time or move on to something new and fresh?
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As I said on the blog, if playing the Germans, the squads of only 8 men and Green are horribly vulnerable. I would be tempted to stand off with supports like the infantry gun and Panther, and either 'reconnoitre by fire' or send scout teams towards his jump off points to force him to deploy. If you can't get close - then firefights with those big US squads supported by .30 and .50 calibre machine guns is only going to end one way.
Though I will say that the run of double phases from the US player did not help the German attackers. It seemed very lop-sided.
If you do decide to run the 'Many Rivers to Cross' campaign, I will follow that with interest, as I have been very tempted to build a Dutch platoon as well. Though I am also hearing the siren song of the Norwegian campaign.
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I've really enjoyed reading these reports, thank you for posting.
It does feel a bit like you've "got his number" in the campaign now and future battles are likely to follow the same pattern. Probably pretty historically accurate, but maybe not all that much fun to play.
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It is definitely challenging for the Germans, I know as we are playing Bucket too, but against the odds it seems, I have managed a couple of victories without the bridge being open! Somehow I’ve snatched victory from defeat a couple of times. Sure I have to go back and mop up table 1, for which I most certainly need a tank...but I’m becoming more convinced a tank is not necessarily the answer on some tables. It makes the German order of battle predictable and thus relatively straightforward to counter.
Sure I’ve had a little luck, and in my last game, I was able to capitalise on what I considered a questionable deployment by the Americans. American firepower, especially with those re-rolled “ones” combined with green German troops is nasty, but can be countered.
I’m loathed to say what tips I could give just yet (I still have to try and win this. Campaign and Jamie may be reading this! ;) ) but for certain, knowing he is likely to hold everything back until the last minute, as German...you need to be aggressive in your early phases. Get yourself into positions to deny his effective use of key positions. Get your overwatch in place to make him think twice about deploying without adequate support. He may wait for those perfect deployment dice, but whilst he does, use the time to your advantage. It is imperative to take a second senior commander to do this effectively. Don’t forget your few smoke grenades, they may not be as useful as British smoke, but are still handy. And if you can spare the points, never leave home without a sniper.....getting rid of the odd junior commander, effectively determines where the senior officers need to be. Make their use predictable. As I said earlier, predictability is often the key to countering....good luck to your “ German” buddy!
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Another great AAR!
One question that that has arisen after several of your AAR's: why does Dave bring his Infantry Gun so far forward in several of the games? It makes the gun crew rather vulnerable, right?
Looking forward to you 1940 invasion of the Netherlands campaign! Let me know if you need feedback on campaign or terrain related design issues, I do live there:)
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Thanks for posting all of this.
Would have been interesting at any time, even more so
as two buddies (Digits & Private Buzz) are playing Buckets
at the moment. I am pretty sure Digits has already shot his
chief of engineers, following his failure for far too many moves
to get the bridge open.
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The Wehrmacht is riddled with traitors!
I've actually been painting up Germans for this campaign, but there's a distinct shortage of US troops in Winter uniforms to use for opponents, other than the Warlord Games ones.
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I actually like the warlord winter US. You could mix in some Artizan?
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I am pretty sure Digits has already shot his
chief of engineers, following his failure for far too many moves
to get the bridge open.
He has been sent East.....
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Thanks for all the comments. While I do think this is tough for the Germans I do think Dave may have been a bit conservative in his tactical thinking. His attacks have become a little formulaic and while I’ve come with an American response that seems to work, he’s yet to find one for the Germans.
A few early defeats where his Volksgrenadiers were mauled badly made him a little over cautious. His attempted coup de main with the jeep was actually based on an idea I bounced around after one of our early games. I think there’s mileage in trying more of this and looking at taking two PzIV instead of the single Panther as often US AT assets are limited and not that powerful. German tanks are unlimited for this campaign so they can be used quite aggressively to try to break an American position and let the Volksgrenadiers close in. Easier said than done of course.
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The Wehrmacht is riddled with traitors!
I've actually been painting up Germans for this campaign, but there's a distinct shortage of US troops in Winter uniforms to use for opponents, other than the Warlord Games ones.
Ah, if you’d only settled on 20mm you’d be getting all excited about AB’s new range of winter Americans (too late for my campaign unfortunately).
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/DFi1PV.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poDFi1PVj)
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Ah, if you’d only settled on 20mm you’d be getting all excited about AB’s new range of winter Americans (too late for my campaign unfortunately).
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/xq90/924/DFi1PV.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/poDFi1PVj)
All true, and as I think I said, when I was living in Oz, it was all 1/72, but when I got to the UK, I went 28mm. Partly so I wasn't buying repeats of what was already in my stash in Oz, but also because, 'postage charges - lack thereof' and everyone else locally having 28mm stuff. :) I don't regret it (much) - although i do miss browsing the Barton sculpts at Eureka.
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Another great AAR!
One question that that has arisen after several of your AAR's: why does Dave bring his Infantry Gun so far forward in several of the games? It makes the gun crew rather vulnerable, right?
Looking forward to you 1940 invasion of the Netherlands campaign! Let me know if you need feedback on campaign or terrain related design issues, I do live there:)
Thanks and I could very well take up your offer. The PSC is very generic so we are exploring a few real units and engagements to try and add historical flavour.
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I have followed all your campaign and always enjoyed reading the reports. Moreover, the Bulge is among my favourite periods, but it is easy to understand that, if the players find no more interest, then it’s only natural to change…
on the other hand, it seems to me that it is the first time that you and Dave get into this feeling of repetiveness, so I am wondering what makes this campaign different from the other ones that you gamed… apart from the many things already mentioned, I would like to ask what opinion you (and Dave) have on the troops classification (in connection with the frequent remarks on the weaknesses of the VG squads). The reason is that I have the impression that the average level in the German 26th and in the US 28th was not so different as the respective classification as Green and Regular means in game terms (especially for the performance under fire due to the mechanics of CoC, at least for what I understand of them, but I only have a superficial knowledge of the rules). The 28th was in the Ardennes to recover after the bloody involvment in the Hurtgen just a few weeks before, and, in my view, the idea that attrition and worsening of troop quality affected only the Germans is misplaced. Certainly the Germans kept on having losses that were more and more difficult to replenish, but also the US divisions were subject to wearing. I don’t know, all VG troops as Green reminds me of all SS elite….
Of course is a personal impression, i.e. subjective, but would like to know what you think after the experience of the campaign. Thanks in advance.
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You make an interesting point. The Volksgrenadiers suffer from two issues, the small squads soon degrade after a few casualties and the biggest problem with their green rating is it makes them easier targets. In the latter case this is made more of a problem because they often need to cross a lot of open ground. Historically I do know that the Americans often reported the Germans crossing fields in the open and getting cut down, so this may reflect a historical situation.
While the 28th division was not in a great condition it is true that small groups put up a very determined resistance. They were combat veterans so had more experience than the volksgrenadiers, so I guess the campaign has tried to find a way to address that.
I think Dave may have tried to use the Volksgrenadiers as regulars and perhaps the campaign calls for a very different way of using them, which is why the use of armour becomes so significant in these games. It’s a puzzle that’s for sure.
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I actually think that's what makes this PSC so interesting. You have overwhelming firepower at close range, so how do you deliver this on target?
I do wonder about the 're-roll ones' for the US reflecting semi-automatic weapons, when the in-game effect is that (as far as I can see) - the US troops re-roll ones, but the German troops with much superior weapons, don't.
In my own view it's a simple equation. What are my troops better at? So I have armour that is better at a stand off role. I have infantry better at a close in shoot out, so stand off, shoot the infantry in.
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Thanks. My doubt/question came not so much from the idea of fielding all-winning Germans, but to have less one-sided games. I still think that a Regular grading for the Germans would not transform the campaign in an easy ride for the Germans. Indeed, the historical outcome in the case of the 28th was (crucially) delaying the Germans, but the Division did not come out so well in shape at the end of the process. The troops in the German first wave, those who infiltrated, were –unsurprisingly- expressly (by specific instructions of the German command) taken from the most experienced available to the divisions. We can decide that this does not necessarily mean a lot, but I think that making them so clearly more inexperienced than their US counterparts, who were also absorbing new recruits in rebuilding their division, is somewhat extreme… German attacks in the open in sort of human-wave style are reported by US witnesses even in Anzio in February 1944, so it might be due to various factors...moreover, one is left to wonder if this can really be mirrored in the game mechanics at the level of CoC... not to mention things such as the grading of the US Sherman crew as regular in BB, whereas the German ones start as Green, despite the repeated complaints of US infantry in the Bulge about their tank troops frequently retreating on receiving news of nearing German armor...
at the end, in CoC terms we have an attacking platoon whose three squads include as many troops as two squads of the defenders, so, leaving aside supports, the attack has to be conducted against an enemy in possess of buildings with a force that is 150% of that of the attackers. These defenders can include an additional BAR per squad at 1 point, further increasing their standard firepower. My impression is that there is no need to grade the Germans as Green to reproduce the historical outcome. On the other hand, it might perhaps be a bit less one-sided and not become repetitive after a while.. but it is only a hypothesis..
apologizing for the long post, I will close with a question: have you ever thought of trying any of these scenarios as Big CoC, with, say, two platoons per side, to see the effect? Just as a curiosity…
in any case, I liked a lot to read your reports of the campaign, I will miss them ….
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Great campaign report :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Looking forward to your next one, eary war?
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Great campaign report :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Looking forward to your next one, eary war?
Yep, it’s looking that way. We like the look of the Many Rivers to Cross campaign. Dave has an early war German platoon and he’s busy finishing off some Dutch. The fact I took delivery today of a model kit of a windmill would suggest our next destination is Holland 1940. That said, as we always do, we will take a short break from CoC and play a few other rules and periods. We want to try O Group, play more Sharp Practice in the AWI and try the same period using Muskets & Tomahawks to see how it compares.
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An interest campaign to be sure.
Told with excellent writing and photos.
I will not rehash what others have said, I pretty much agree.
Would be interesting to have the Germans be on the defense and US attack.
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After a bit of deliberation we've decided to call an American victory on the campaign and call it a day. We've played ten games across eight campaign turns, making this the longest campaign we have played to date, so I think we've given it a fair shot. Having won the previous scenario the Americans are in good enough shape to mount a counterattack against the rather meagre German force that has fallen back to Map 2. There's a decent chance they could recapture it which would make any hope of a German campaign victory (or even a draw) very unlikely. As Dave said, our gaming time is precious and perhaps it's time to move on given the writing is on the wall.
It's an intriguing campaign with much that we liked and would like to see in future campaigns, like the off map movement. The appeal of a campaign is in the broader story that is told and about the decisions you make for the future that impact the game currently in play. The extra layer in this PSC added to that experience. After all the discussion I would really like to have a crack at fighting this as the Germans at some time in the future, but with so many other campaigns to choose I'm not certain that's something that will happen any time soon.
So, what's next? We'll take a break and play a few other things. I want to try O Group and a bit more of I Ain't Been Shot Mum. We have some Sharp Practice we want to play and we will do a bit of a compare/contrast by playing the same period with Muskets & Tomahawks. We will return to CoC with the Many Rivers to Cross PSC from the 2018 Lard Magazine. Dave has painted up a Dutch platoon to complement his early war German platoon, so we will look to run this in Holland 1940. With that in mind, I have just bought this which I need to build:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1024x768q90/924/0ootuT.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/po0ootuTj)
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Thanks for taking the time to post this. I think you have
made the right decision, & I look forward to seeing
the Germans going 'FLAT' out in Holland.
I always fancied one of those swing up bridges (several
MDF versions are out there), as it is so Dutch, but I never
got around to fighting in Holland.
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It has been a very interesting read Thanks
Looking forward to 1940 game I find it a totally different game with very few decent AT weapons but loads of tanks, well in most of our games
Keep up the good work
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It has been a very interesting read Thanks
Looking forward to 1940 game I find it a totally different game with very few decent AT weapons but loads of tanks, well in most of our games
Keep up the good work
It does make it very different. In our French vs German game, the Panhard armoured car was effectively invulnerable once the German armour had been disabled, and the Germans were forced to retire.